First Log!

Hey guys, though I got DSMlink actually in like a week ago I finally got the Keyspan serial to USB adapter today so I went out and took a couple logs. :)

All I have to say is the DSMlink shit is bananas. I fuckin love it! I finally found out what my CEL was for it was a knock circuit problem. Needless to say I wont be doing too many crazy things without knowing how much I am knocking, but hopefully that stock tune shouldnt allow for much knock.

Here is a link to the third log I took. (http://www.uploading.com/files/N0E10CAC/first-3.dat.html) It was a short 3rd gear pull followed by a coast. I started at about 2700 rpms and pulled through 4300. I was pretty excited to see IDC's only peak at 51% being that they are 450's and I have a 16g and FP2 cams.

So, how do you other DSMlink guys think my log looks? I was wondering about shit. I didnt log everything I wanted and did log some stuff I wasnt too interested in, but I'll take a few more tonight. Here's some of my specific questions:

My IAT's look rediculous. It was 79* F at time of log, but my IAT's were between like 100* F and 106* F the whole time. What are you guys with front mounts running relative to the ambient temp?

It looks like the ECU is seeing a knock value under load, but it looks like it goes away when I was coasting. Is this just a default since there is a problem with the knock sensor?

What the hell is going on with my o2 sensor? Its all the fuck over the place.

How's everything else?

So yeah, I figured that at 107.7 g/s airflow (peak as best as I could figure) translates to 14.2 lbs/min. Go me. :D I'll post another log a little later.

Sorry I can't help!!! Get the knock sensor fixed first then go from there. That may take care of some issues, especially if the ECU is pulling any timing due to that.

And my IATs were always higher when I was N/T than compared to the outside temp. Usually about 20 degrees IIRC. That was straight N/T with AC and everything near stock.

Well, I made a couple more logs today... like 14. :) Most were just checking IAT's, coolant temps, and estimated milage but I did get a couple pulls too. I forgot how deep the gas pedal is since I've been trying to keep the throttle low until I could find out what kind of IDC's I was running. The first hard pull may have been WOT, but the second made it to like 3600 rpm before I realized I was only at about 80% throttle.

The first pull went pretty good, I still didnt know how long I had before I ran out of injector, so I let off at 5158 rpm and sure as shit I was already at 83% IDC. It usually spikes to like 17-18psi at I think around 5500 rpm, so I dont think it was at the 10 psi I had it set at. I was flowing 171.2 g/sec, or right around 22.6 lbs/min. The estimated AFR went from like 9.8:1 at 3200 rpm to 9.41:1 at 5180 rpm so it appears to be running pig ass rich... but I wont trust that until I can snag a JAW. Oooh, one more question: is there a way to log TPS? I think it should be an easy enough thing to log, but I dont see where I can log it.

My plan of action is to look at the knock sensor tomorrow and do a boost leak test tomorrow. I should have my FIC 1000's by the end of the week, so I am going to keep my WOT logs to a minimum until then.

I'm not going to lie guys, making that pull was so much fun :). Those cams really make that bitch scream, I love it! I am counting the hours until I can make a redline pull. Anyway, here's the screen shot of my hardest pull. Comments appreciated!

(http://imageshack.us])http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1407/pulldg4.jpg

Your O2 sensor is working normal, you want to see it oscillating like that during closed loop operation (idle, part throttle cruising). Also, your knock sensor is dead so it goes into a limp mode and automatically retards the timing to save the engine just in case.



Sometimes my engine temps are around 123. It may be because i have an open air filter. I'd like to build a shroud to keep it down. You might want to look into that. BTW, the IAT is measured at the MAF which as you know is just after the air filter so actual temperature going into the engine is unknown to me. But i do know that after the post intercooler end tank is very cool as opposed to the inlet side.

BoostEst only estimates 5 psi. Did you even go WOT? Also, you should get your fuel trims inline and MAF calibrated before you do any tuning. Go to www.jeffgst.com and find the MAF calibration page. Then post an idle and cruise log that shows LTFT Lo, Mid, and Hi.

There is an "airflow" value that shows lbs/min.

I'd like the actual file if you could post it!! At 10psi my engine is running 27 lbs/min on the 14b. Must be the stroker.

If you go to Display>values>and click on "airflow" look at the center and it will have a "props" button. You can switch it to lbs/min.

Yeah you can log TPS, find and log the value "Throtpos". You can also find "TPSvolts" and adjust your TPS to .63v at closed throttle.

boy you sound excited lol but yes there is defenitely a way to log TPS you can also log tps volts if u feel so inclined. u have to make sure that the ECu is logging it then select it to be displayed. play with F4 and F7 between these you should be able to figure it out.

Ok, here is that log. (http://www.uploading.com/files/EXG9J0D1/new-13.dat.html) On that first log I dont think I actually went WOT, but I'm pretty sure on the last one I did.

I am sure that I should be flowing more, but I did stop at 5200 rpm's :). The estimated boost on the second log is only 11 psi, but I dont know what it actually was. The things you said are going on the list to do tomorrow as well, and I will make another log afterward and check on shit. How's this log look?

EDIT: I did find how I am supposed to find the TPS log, I didnt read as much as I should have before hand.

Also, I completely spaced on the fact that IAT's are taken in the MAF. Tonight they were right around 100 at cruise, but got as high as 127 I believe when I was waiting at a light. This weekend hopefully I will get a shroud made up.

EDIT #2: Tim, you said I should, "get my fuel trims in line" before tuning... what exactly do you mean by that?

Do a search on fuel trims over at the dsmlink website. The user's guide that's out there for dsmlink also hes a procedure to get them inline. With stock injectors, i would assume they are good, but it's a good idea to check anyway.

Well, I figured out why my knock sensor wasnt working! The plug for the knock sensor was cut and I was plugging it into that other random plug next to it. Sooo, I hacked the knock sensor plug off of my extra harness, soldered the bitch on, plugged er in, turned the key to "on", and waited for a CEL. Never came. Plugged in the compy and went for a drive to see how it pulled when it wasnt seeing 3.2 degrees of knock. All I have to say is holy fuckin shit. The difference was almost night and day, especially in 1st and 2nd. Third was definately better, but not as impressive as 2nd. Quick question, so when a person is talking about a "count" of knock, are they talking about degrees of knock? (Thats the "Knock" value logged by DSMlink) Or are they talking about the "RawKnock" value?

So I took a few pulls to check it out. First real pull was in 3rd gear to 5144 rpm. Everything looked pretty good, but I thought the timing lookeda little off. I got .4 degrees of knock (the RawKnock value was 1) for like 150 rpms starting at about 3850, but that was the most I ever got. I got to 74.5% IDC on that pull and managed to log about 20.3 lbs/min. BoostEst was off quite a bit too. Anyway, here's the link. (http://www.uploading.com/files/YX5MOULR/knockfixed7308-10.dat.html)

I took another pull after getting to another semi deserted road. I started logging partway through first gear and decided to get on it for second and third gear. I didnt even go WOT on it until about 4800 rpms, I was mostly watching the boost guage to see if I got boost creep or not. Sure enough I accidentally revved the bitch out to 6637 rpms. Why is that bad? 450's + FP2's + 16g = teh pwnage. I hit 100% IDC at 6500 rpms and when I hit my peak RPM at 6637 rpms I was at 102.7 IDC. :( After I revved that high I was a litte scared and just let 3rd gear hang. I guess I dodged a bullet on that one, where I did get .4 degrees knock from 6100-6260 (RawKnock value was 1) I was at like 94.9%-95.2% IDC there, I didnt get any knock when I got at or over 100% IDC. I did hit 28 lbs per minute too, so eat that Tim. :p Anyway, here's that log. (http://www.uploading.com/files/WZQNWICP/knockfixed7308-11.dat.html) The timing looked right on that last log, despite the knock.

So what do you guys think? Anything look uber bad? I was going to try to get the MAF calibrated and get the fuel trims in line, but you need to do WOT pulls to redline which I obviously cant do. My FIC 1000's should be here like Monday so I am just going to wait to do any changes until then. I was also thinking that I should upgrade from the 1g MAF soon, when does it start to overrun? I kind of wanted to get a 2g MAF, but I know a guy I might be able to get a really cheap GM MAF and translator and I was thinking about going with a 3 bar GM MAP sensor too but I really need to do my research on that first.

EDIT: So Thor feels like a moron. I started to look at the MAF calibration and saw that I needed to enter the elevation and shit. Sure enough default is 0ft elevation and I am at around 1350ft. I changed it and it was right up in the neighborhood of where it was supposed to be. I also see that VE is around 5000-5500 so I guess I will do it tomorrow.

Tim, I search DSMlink forums to look for the fuel trim stuff, but didnt find much useful. I was looking at the jeffgst.com site's article on MAS/MAF calibration page. It looks like that is only for the 1200, 1600, 2000, and 2400 hz sliders. So I look at the top of the page and he has the link for "Fuel Trim Calibration Page." So I check that out and it went through the process of using the Lo, Mid, and Hi LTFT's and STFT to adjust the 50, 150, 250, and 400 hz. Is that what you were talking about? A simple yes or no is fine, I can search for the rest. :) Next questions... on the "Fuel Trim Calibration Page" for the 50 and 150 hz sliders it says to just rev to the 50 hz and 150 hz. Does that mean free revving while the car is stationary? What about the 250 and 400 hz sliders, for those it says to "cruise on the open road until a stable XXX hz." Does that mean pretty much any gear, any speed, any TPS, etc? Does the same go for the 800 hz slider?

I did hit 28 lbs per minute too, so eat that Tim. :p

LOL! My first log after my GM MAF showed 34 lb/min...

Anyway .4 degrees of knock retard is nothing i would worry about. Most don't worry until a prolonged period of 2 degrees happens. I think a regular logger displays "counts". Not sure on that...

Also, The VE table isn't active unless FAKE MAF is enabled. To keep it short, 99% of dsmlink users don't use it. It is used when you over run your MAF and you hit the switch over point. There is also plenty of this info on the dsmlink forum.

Calibrating the MAF is easy doesn't require WOT.

Here is what i do:

First log

LTFT Lo
LTFT Mid

I also log SelectedLTFT as it shows you what fuel trim the ECU is using.
Fuel trims will only be updated when your coolant temp. is above 190F.

LTFT lo will be seen at idle. Idle the car until you reach operating temperature and look at the LTFT lo. If it shows -3% then that means the ECU is pulling 3% of fuel to stay around 14.7 AF ratio. Open the AIRFLOW table and lower the 50 hz slider 3%.

Do this for mid and hi and you should be all set. jefftgst.com shows how to calibrate the upper sliders where you do have to go WOT but I would wait on that until you get some bigger injectors.

Timing is way high! I forsee knock problems when you increase the boost. I use the 2g timing map as of today that I also found on his website. Have you verified base timing yet? Here's mine from last night: http://www.uploading.com/files/3W694QQB/run07012008-2.dat.html

You can do it free revving or while driving. I feel better with the results while driving. When you make changes, take it back out and cruise with the MAFRaw around 150 and see where the LTFT mid settles. Try to get them a little on the positive side. Also, 1G ECU's will only take away a max of 4.7 on the negative side so it won't go lower than that.

If you increase boost with knock problems, look into this: http://www.dsmlink.com/wiki/2gtimingin1gecu

I can't see you increasing boost since you are maxing out your injectors already.

Awesome. I will do that tomorrow along with the boost leak test (as long as its not too hot out) and getting the NLTS wire in.

Its good to know that the VE table is basically useless, I was a little scared of it.

I also read the timing table on jeffgst.com and was pretty suprised... I was kind of under the impression DSM's took well to timing and I thought it was a good way to eek out more power, but from the sounds of it if anything you need to tone a 1g timing table down.

Thanks for the help Tim! I'll get another log or two up tomorrow after I get the MAF dialed in.

No problem. I forgot about logging LTFT Hi as well. Cruising at 65mph may be around the 250 hz slider, but I can't remember exactly.

Well, I just went out and did some logging. 50 hz was easy to log as that was like 1000 rpms. 150 hz was semi easy too, but 250 hz and 400 hz were both big pains in the ass.

I do have a question though, the STFT was bouncing all the fuck over. So what do I do? Take like an average of a few, or do I just find 50.0 hz on the tits and use that? I'll pick through my logs and post them up in a few minutes.

EDIT: Ok, picked out the logs. Some are pretty long as I had a hard time getting the MAFRaw values just where I want them. Anyway, here they are: 50 hz (http://www.uploading.com/files/KI5PMLMG/50hz.dat.html), 150 hz (http://www.uploading.com/files/TKNFZJ80/150hz.dat.html), 250 hz (http://www.uploading.com/files/M4KFA9LN/250hz.dat.html), and 400 hz (http://www.uploading.com/files/M9V4BS4M/400hz.dat.html).

*Cliff notes will be on the bottom, this all seems to have gotten really, REALLY long. Sorry, but thank you to anyone that decides to decipher my banter.*

On the 50 hz log I got 50.0 hz at 3.53 seconds and my LTFT Lo is 9.8% and the STFT is 4.1% for a 50 hz slider value of 13.9% or rounded up to 14%. If you look at a different place on the log however, at say 1.05 seconds I hit 50.0 hz, but my LFFT Lo was 9.4% while my STFT was 5.9% for an adjustment of 15.3%. Is that 1% variance not really a big deal or what? Does that seem like a pretty big adjustment, or is that normal?

My 150 hz log I got 149.8 hz at 5.98 seconds and both my LTFT Mid and STFT values were 4.9% for an adjustment of 9.8%. Later I got a 149.6 hz with a LTFT Mid at 4.9% but the STFT was 5.9 for an adjustment of 10.8%. I looked around and pretty much all the values within like 1 hz of 150 hz had adjustments of 10-11%.

My 250 hz log is a long bastard. The LTFT Lo and LTFT Mid values always held pretty steady, but on the LTFT Hi it just read 0.0% for a while. Early in the log I found 249.7 hz with LTFT Hi of 0% and STFT 10.9%. Later, the LTFT Hi was just starting to move and I found another 249.7 hz with LTFT Hi of .2% and STFT of 9.2% for a total adjustment of 9.4%. Later yet in the log I had a nice long stretch of MAFRaw values of right around 250 hz and my LTFT had leveled off 2.9%. So I found a spot with 250.4 hz with a LTFT of 2.9% and a STFT of 4.1% for a total adjustment of 7.0%. I found another spot however, that was at 249.0 hz and had a LTFT of 2.9% still but a STFT of 5.5% for an adjustment of 8.4%. Thats a pretty big difference, but the 7% one was at the bottom of the cycling the STFT seems to do, the 8.4% was more in the middle. I found one later that was 250 hz right on the tits and it had a LTFT of 2.9% still but had a STFT of 6.1% for an adjustment of 9%. and that was also right in the middle of the STFT cycling.

My 400 hz log was another really long one. I wont go as far in depth as I did in the 250 hz log, but I'll list a few of my adjustments at 400 +/- 1 hz and I will try to stay towards the middle of the cycling of the STFT. They are as follows: 8.2%, 7.4%, 8.2%, 8.4%.

CLIFF NOTES: Well, I think in the process of writing the above book on my four logs today, I figured out what I was having trouble with. I was wondering what do do because of the cycling STFT, but I think I figured out that you just need to find a spot with close to the target MAFRaw value and a STFT value in the middle of the STFT cycling and use that, right? If that is the case, my adjustments will be as follows: 50 hz = 14% , 150 hz = 10% , 250 hz =10% , and 400 hz = 8%. I guess the way I see it is right now they are off by 8-14%, so if I go a degree high or low I can always just adjust it later. So, did I do it right? :D

I am going to go out pretty quick here and take a WOT pull and see where I am at for the MAF calibration. What should I do about the 800 hz slider, do that one the same as the 400 hz sliders and below or the 1200 hz sliders and above?

You don't have to be at 50.0hz to use the 50 hz slider. If it said 75 hz then the 50hz would still be in effect. I don't know what the switch over point from 50 to 150 is. I think it's about 110.

Anyway, I would bump your 50hz slider up 10% and your 150hz up 5%. STFT will always be bouncing around and it looks to me normal as far as i can tell.

Take your car back out for a spin afterwards and try to cruise and keep your MAFRaw around 150. Idle it for 5 minutes and see where the LTFT Lo is at. Like i said before, a percent or 2 positive is ideal.

Have you seen this page yet? http://jeffgst.com/gmafcalibration2.html

Yessir, thats what I've been following for squaring off the fuel trims. I guess I was just thinking too deep into this whole thing, it sounds like its a bit more inexact that I originally thought. :)

Just a quick update, I went out and did a quick on the fly check of the 150 hz and 250 hz deals, they look pretty good. I'll do another check later, but for now I think it was good. I am still dragging ass on that boost leak check, plus I'd like to grab a 2g MAF (I think I found one locally!!) and get my injectors in before I get shit dialed in real good.

I drove around for a quite a while looking for a deserted road and I was about 1 mile from home and I noticed there was no one around, so I slowed down and got a log in. From an ass dyno stand point, I felt like the car was pulling a little harder, could that be from getting the MAF dialed in better? I noticed my estimated AFR's were a lot more realistic early in the RPM's, could that be because of my MAF compensation as well? I found that at 5500 rpms I was getting a tick over 1600 hz, so I can get that slider figured out now. Should I just blend the 1200 hz and 800 hz sliders into the 400 hz and 1600 hz sliders?

After I got the elevation in the BoostEst was close, but still off... I was watching the boost guage pretty close during the pull and it hit full boost about where the BoostEst thought I did, but I held 10 lbs from then until about 4500 rpms, then it crept to between 11 and 12 lbs until I let off. I used 11.5 lbs actual boost to calculate the the 1600 MAF slider. I ended up with 10.08%, so the fits about how far off the 50, 150, 250, and 400 hz sliders were off. I dont know if I can cut boost to get to 1200 hz in the 100% VE, so that might be tricky.

Yeah most people blend the upper airflow sliders in together. And yes you will see that BoostEst and A/F ratio be more inline with actual data when the MAF is calibrated. BoostEst will be most accurate in the 5000-5500 range where VE is 100%, as you probably read at jeff's website.

I took four WOT logs today and shit was looking pretty good. Timing was good, but I was getting some weird knock... particularly right as I am going WOT and then again between 4000-4200 rpms. I kind of attribute that to my rediculous ass IAT's, they were lie 108-123 degrees today. It was 82 and humid out though. My BoostEst was still jacked, but I suppose its kind of supposed to be when its not in the 5000-5500 rpm 100% VE window. All and all though, I am feeling good about it!

Whoa didn't even see this thread till now. Looks like you are on the right track
are you logging a wideband?
post of your most recent log for us.

Whoa didn't even see this thread till now. Looks like you are on the right track
are you logging a wideband?
post of your most recent log for us.

ditto

400hz is pointless.
GM 3.3bar map is a must with Dsmlink http://scottjsee.googlepages.com/3.3barmap

I am not logging wideband, I dont have one yet. I was kind of waiting to see if the sale of Dave's JAW goes through or not, and either buy his or a new one hopefully early this coming week. I havent been playing with fuel at all, and I've watching knock like a hawk (I believe I have the knock CEL set at 2 degrees, but I've never gotten more than 1 count and thats always for a short time). I got my 1000cc injectors today, but I wont really try to get a decent tune until I get the wideband.

Scott, I was just thinking about when you put the GM MAP sensor in the other day and ended up cruising eBay looking for one. 3.3 bar fits my needs perfect and I definately plan to scoop one up in the next couple weeks. I think V3 is supposed to have good speed density support, and I definate plan to use that shit once I can. I have all my emissions shit pulled and I have one vac hose going from the FPR to the intake mani that has my boost guage T fitting in it. Is that where I should put the GM MAP sensor too, and does it matter if it goes between the guage T and the FPR or the guage T and the intake mani?

Here is the link to one of my latest logs. (http://www.uploading.com/files/YYEAO1SV/MAFcalibdone-3.dat.html) I think you all will see what I mean about the crazy IAT's. :eek7: Once I get the 2g MAF in I will start working on a shroud, once I get the new intercooling in I will work on some better ducting.

So I have a new set of questions for you all.... I got my FIC 1000's in the mail today and I got a call from a local that is parting his car and has a 2g MAF for me. On top of calibrating a new MAF and getting my new injectors in, I am planning on going E85 on those bitches. So the first question is, what do I do first? Should I get the 1000's in, run 92, get the 2g MAF calibrated, then switch to E85? Or should I get the 2g MAF in and calibrated, then get the 1000's in and switch to E85 all at once? I suppose either way it doesnt matter and I think I'd rather do it the first way, but I thought I should ask anyway.

EDIT: I think I figured what I am going to do about the 92 to E85 transition. I think I'll grab a gas can and get a few gallons of E85 and toss that shit in the back end until I run out of or real close on 92, then just change the global once I go to E85. Think that'll work? My guage is a little jacked though, it stops a hair above the E line so it gets tough to judge when I am really getting low on gas.

Install your injectros, correctly set your global and dead time. You want your injectors functioning before calibrating airflow, or you'll be chaseing your tail. I hope you're not planning on running E85 every day thinking it will save you on gas. It burns 20% more fuel, so it will end up costing you about the same, but making you fill up more often.. Not much of a benifit for everyday use. I'd recomend tunning a E85 race map, keeping it on your laptop and using it on race day..

You've bairly hit the 14b potentual, just wait untill you spool 2nd on that evo3 at 32lb/min airflow @11:1 & NLTS'ing into 3rd.. SQQQQQ status.. there's nothing to point out in your log. Drop the injectors in, pop in your $90 3.3bar map and harness and turn up the boost!

FPR vac to IM for the GMMap is fine, it may cause 1-2lb pressure drop in the AFR, but it's nothing you will notice or have to tune around..

If you want, you can clamp the IAT and have the ECU use 79deg at sea level. Ps. I'd rather have a GM Maf then a 2g maf, especially sence V3 will have GM MAF support. Besides, then you can vent home-e.

Well I did get the 1000's in today, but I was having some crazy knock issues. I made a post up on the link forums about it, but I think I got it all ironed out. I think there was a few things contributing to it, but all I am getting is a few one counts under light acceleration or constant speed cruising. I sorta think its phantom knock though.

I took a good hard pull tonight after I got the fuel trims in line, it felt fucking great! I didnt even go WOT hard and ended up flowing 28.3 lbs/min at 6k. It seemed to run real smooth and sounded good under hard acceleration. Tomorrow hopefully I can go out and take a good couple good redline pulls, but gassing this thing up is getting expensive!

I dont know for 100% sure what I am going to do for gas for it. I do know that it will run E85 at the track and that I will have to tun 92 at some point in time, but how often I do each I dont know for sure.

V3 is supposed to have good speed density capabilities right? I'd have to do more research and shit, but I think thats the way I am going to go.

You sir, are FAR more motivated than me. I've had Link for weeks and just got around to the low air sliders yesterday. :P

Haven't been WOT in a month.

I havn't been WOT in 2 years..

Speed density is up and running in several v3 test cars.

...and you're selling your car. Punk. :)

Went WOT today, actually. On the 2g timing map and zero'd sliders for fuel, the damn thing went hella rich and the snail took forever to spool. Not surprisingly, not a single count of knock according to the CEL/Boost gauge.

Can't wait to add in some timing for the spool and tweak some more. As many little issues as I've had with Link, I'm still loving the whole learning process. Knowledge will make power!

Edit: FIAV is bypassed on the car...will some of your tutorial on idle still apply? Noticed the disclaimer at the top, but it is vague.

How did you know I was selling my car?

How did you know I was selling my car?

I'm everywhere...

Saw it on POS first. :)

You're on POS? Kitty, now you? ahhnga.. I just noticed your a mod on Dsmtuners 3 days ago..

Since 2002, foo.

Fatass on POS. :)