Houston, We Have A Problem - Project "Green Machine"........3.4 headers project

Is now Offically project "Green Hornet" , the GT just bit me in the ass!

Well the header project has hit a bump in the road(you could say), I popped the LIM off this morning.... and...

It looks like I have other issues, then just bad lifters, my cam appears to be slightly damaged. :banghead:
The cam is seen thru those holes where it's all shiney....

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC_6.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC_7.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC_8.jpg


And besides that, the inside is horrably dirty, which it wasn't when I did the heads/LIM gaskets in '06.

It's totally unacceptable and is probley coming out!!!
I do have an extra block ready, looks like a rebuild might be coming soon. :naughty:

I just need to get it cleaned up so I can inspect the cam more closly, then wiegh the pros and cons....

At least I have the front manifold and cross over off. :D
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC_1.jpg

[taking routine inventory on his gadgetry before cruising into action] Hornet gun... check. Hornet sting... check. Let's roll, Kato!

The Kato Show, this one's going to hurt. :uhoh:

... ouch. I really need an engine rebuild myself, my engine does very strange things that it shouldn't do when I go WOT...

Um WOW! That doesn't look good at all! :headshake At least you have the other block pretty much ready to go!

Well, after great consideration and a dozen opinuins, I am not pulling the motor.
After I cleand up the cam and took a closer look thier are no groves or worn spots, just burnt a little, probley the bad lifters.
So I started cleaning up these nasty parts, here are a few pics, that will or should make you want to change your oil more often. (Not my doing, previous owners need a kick to the head(or frying pan) :lol: )

Upper intake with the sharp casting edges removed.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSCUI19.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSCUI16.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSCUI18.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSCUI17.jpg

Kinda sketchy , about 15 minutes of work, they need to soak in the tank over night along with the heads & valve covers..
Speaking of heads, they look prety good other then dirty.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DS_heads4.jpg

The block is horrible dirty to, this is embarassing.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DS_yuk_9.jpg

So I'll probley drop the oil pan and pull the timing cover tomorrow morning, get those cleaned up. Mainly I need to make sure all the crud is out so the oil can flow properly.
The heads was not draining down well at all, which is probly what made the lifter jamb thus bending 2 push rods.

I almost call MMS for a stage 2 kit lastnight....
I didnt realize those kits come with the U & L intakes P/P. I just hate paying someone for something I can do my self. :dunno:

That oil filter... Looks alot like the orange can of death. Might have something to do with why the guts are so dirty.

Well, after great consideration and a dozen opinuins, I am not pulling the motor.
After I cleand up the cam and took a closer look thier are no groves or worn spots, just burnt a little, probley the bad lifters.
So I started cleaning up these nasty parts, here are a few pics, that will or should make you want to change your oil more often. (Not my doing, previous owners need a kick to the head(or frying pan) :lol: )

So I'll probley drop the oil pan and pull the timing cover tomorrow morning, get those cleaned up. Mainly I need to make sure all the crud is out so the oil can flow properly.
The heads was not draining down well at all, which is probly what made the lifter jamb thus bending 2 push rods.

I almost call MMS for a stage 2 kit lastnight....
I didnt realize those kits come with the U & L intakes P/P. I just hate paying someone for something I can do my self. :dunno:


XI, you can send em a e-mail for a customized order, just take out all the stuff you dont need from the stageII like the U/LIM... Check ahead on his availability though with parts.... I'm still waiting for my trans mount, he said it was on back order... I may just request money back soon...

That oil filter... Looks alot like the orange can of death. Might have something to do with why the guts are so dirty.

:rofl: thats a temporary partical eliminator :lol:
When I did the head/LIM gaskets 2 years ago it was kinda rushed and I didnt spend a great deal of time with it, maybe to many beers.... :dunno:

XI, you can send em a e-mail for a customized order, just take out all the stuff you dont need from the stageII like the U/LIM... Check ahead on his availability though with parts.... I'm still waiting for my trans mount, he said it was on back order... I may just request money back soon...

Yeah I figured he would do a partial order. I did hear he was way backed up on orders. I think every other GA owner has found out about what these engines are realy capable of, well with some fat ca$h and a few busted knuckles ! :lol:

So I have one valve cover ready for baking, just finished it a couple hours ago. Color matches the body pretty well too. :D
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/VC_sm_2.jpg

:rofl: thats a temporary partical eliminator :lol:
When I did the head/LIM gaskets 2 years ago it was kinda rushed and I didnt spend a great deal of time with it, maybe to many beers.... :dunno:



Yeah I figured he would do a partial order. I did hear he was way backed up on orders. I think every other GA owner has found out about what these engines are realy capable of, well with some fat ca$h and a few busted knuckles ! :lol:

So I have one valve cover ready for baking, just finished it a couple hours ago. Color matches the body pretty well too. :D
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/VC_sm_2.jpg


so how exactly should one paint their engine parts?

clean very well, paint evenly... bake ? (http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5491/1134049470hernbertstonehs2.jpg)

so how exactly should one paint their engine parts?

clean very well, paint evenly... bake ?

Not that bake! :D

I have a parts dishwasher, then I scrape and brush any remaining grease. Followed by a hot soapy bath(with Dawn dishsoap), and I dry them completly. I even had to wet sand the valve covers, they had massive stains I wanted to remove so it didnt screw up the paint.

Baking is done in a over. I use an old electric oven with dual heating elements, I made it for powder coating but it works for this too. A gas stove would work(or even you BBQ grill) but I am leary of the ketone fumes ignighting in the oven.... KaBoom ! lol

UI is primed and ready for bake #1 :lol:
I'll get some pics up later!

Which one are you installing the S&S headers on JC?

Which one are you installing the S&S headers on JC?
On the GT... dont mind the GTO. :lol:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/GTO_GrandAm.jpg

Here are the valve covers after the final bake(done
), they look great ! :grinyes:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/valve_cover1.jpg

Here is the intake after the first cooking. Taping off the 3400 right now.....

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/intake_bake1.jpg

All I can say is WOW ! The intake looks great!! Just needs to final bake and its done. :D

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC00013.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC00014.jpg

Now to paint the lower intake. This will take longer to prep for paint, another busy day. :runaround:

Probly start assembly first part of the week, wish me luck that I dont chip to much paint. :cwm27:

Gir, I didnt fully answer your question, you can clean these parts at home DIY. You can buy stuff from auto parts stores to clean them, gas works realy well but is dangerous. Just alot more work and time involved. One could also find a place that can clean your parts. :2cents:

I also wouldnt recomend using your moms oven to bake your parts, she'd flip ! Not to mention the smell.

Here is the lower intake, masked and done. :)

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/lower_intake1.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/lower_intake2.jpg

Edit....

I did get half the pistons cleand up. :thumbsup:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/3_down.jpg

Finished cleaning the block today, set the new lifters in ready for assembly.
Now I just need to double check the heads, do a leak down test and they'll be ready..... I hope. lol

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/clean_ready.jpg

Shiney like new! :thumbsup:

Just a thought, if it hasn't been replaced already, why not do the timing cover gasket while you have the P/S pump and alt off? I've seen a number of 3.1/3.4 that go soft around the coolant passages, it might save ya some time in the long run :2cents:

Yeah I will change it and the timing chain/gears in the next few weeks .
I was going to now, but I need a bunch of stuff I dont have here in my garage at home. I'll take it to the shop and it'll be so much easier and faster. Plus the front main needs replaced and probly the oil pan....man this job keeps getting bigger and bigger. :runaround:

Been having a hellofatime getting the cam sensor out. Wires are all bad, previous ower tried silicone on them. :shakehead That would explain the random DTC I got last year for the cam sensor. :rolleyes: Its soaking in WD now so maybe later it'll just pop right out. :grinno:

Not in a big hurry, the weathers been great so I'm taking advantage of that right now, cruising in the SE @ $4.35 a gallon for premium. yee haa ! :banghead:


edit...

After going over the heads I find they arent warped but several valves are leaking... badly!
So looks like a small valve job nothing to radical for the daily driver, save some gas. :D
Getting ready to check the timing cover more closely......

you should look into and see if any company makes aftermarket valves, same dimensions of coarse :D

Oh yeah thier are many brands and types, stainless is what I'll probly use, I just happen to have a set for the 3.4.

I inspected and cleaned the oil pan this evening, doesnt look like the pan or main has been leaking, to my surprise.
A couple years ago the heads and intake were leaking, but thier is no new/fresh oil anywhere. So I will clean it up the best I can, and see what it looks like in 600-700 miles.

I swear, GM loves those push pins and 10 mm bolts/nuts.

.... things are definatly up in the air (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC_5up4.jpg). lol

Oil pan was realy dirty, my GT didnt have any of the under panels(splash shields) , I replaced them all but never cleaned anything.

Before....it all looked like this.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC_41D.jpg

Looks better now. :D
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/clean_oilpan2.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/clean_oilpan1.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/clean_oilpan.jpg

I finaly got the camshaft sensor out lastnight....
Its bad, and the cheap plastic kept breaking off ! lol

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/camshaftsensor.jpg

I bet that was fun!

Yeah as fun as a bees nest. lol

Heads are ready to slap back on, I'm hoping to get it togehter this evening and fire it up in the morning.

Still need to get the old cat off, pipe and clamps rusted good, looks like time for the plasma cutter. :evillol:

I wish I had one of those, so much better than the ol' oxy-acetylene torch :)

You better replace the exhaust and hardware with stainless so that doesn't happen again :biggrin:

Yeah its a cheaper Esab 650 only about $1200, it's done paid for its sell in time/labor costs.

Heads are on, though I've hit another road block due to the holiday.
I didnt have all 12 of the exhaust manifold bolts/nuts, and not all of the LI bolts. I called the local stealershits yesterday and they wanted $48 for the 8 LI bolts and I forget about the exhaust stuff. :disappoin
Luckily my local NAPA ordered them for me, wont be in untill saturday morning.

Taking the week-end off I think on the GT. Going to a BBQ and getting drunk , watch some fireworks and such. :cool:
And run the DS outta the SE, see if I cant finish off my tires. :evillol:

Well I didnt get to smashed and I got the headers on this afternoon.... major PITA !

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/almost_done.jpg

I'll post better pics later. ;)

Ok, its later . :D

Finaly got them on, and tight!
Some of the new studs I purchased were about 1/4" longer, and the nuts were crimped lock nuts, which made things go very slow. Could not get to one nut , and I finaly got a 1/2" boxed end wrench(when its 13mm) to fit after some bending of the wrench.
I dont see how anyone could actualy torq all these nuts, you cant even get a ratch down there. :lol:

Any who here's some pics !!

Rear Header-I think the lower heater hose is to close to the rear header pipe so that'll need modified.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DS_rear_headr.jpg

Front On
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DS_done.jpg

Front, front
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DS_done_2.jpg

Rockers and Push Rods intact... and ready.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DS_rockers_1.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DS_rockers_2.jpg

I would have it done but I dropped and broke my smaller torq wrench, that's in Inch lbs. :rolleyes:

I give Bob kudos on this install, and thankx for those tips on the front, it was very very tricky! :sly:

so XI, you're just rebuilding it correct? Not putting MMS stuff in?

so XI, you're just rebuilding it correct? Not putting MMS stuff in?

Yeah prety much stock. I did use better valves & keepers.

Oh yeah , my Grand am love! Who says they dont have heart. :D

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/heart_o_grandam.jpg

:lol:

$1200's not bad at all, they were much, much more the last time i saw any prices on them. I'll have to see if I can get my boss to buy one of those plasma cutters.

and the nuts were crimped lock nuts

Yeah, vinyl locknuts may not work too great on exhaust :biggrin:

Well things are getting closer to being done, just taking my time, dont want to mess up my paint! lol

Worked all day at the shop then I go and do this 10 minutes into it...... smashed my right pinky cutting the nail into. :bloated:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/godamnit.jpg


OK, On with the pics
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DS_50.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DS_51.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DS_52.jpg



The header cross over is realy close to the thermostat housing. :eek7:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DS_close.jpg

Its starting to look like an car again! :grinyes:

Well its done !
Through all the busted knuckles, and small problems that arose(as they always do) I think it was worth the time and money, well you can decied. :D

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC_71.jpg

Here is the first fire-up right after I primed the oil pump and made sure thier were no gas leaks.... open Cat. :naughty:

http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/?action=view&current=GreenHornet-ComestoLife.flv

Sounds good. Glad you got it to fire up. Gotta question though, how in the hell did you get that rear valve cover off? Both times I worked on my car I had to work around it.

:thumbsup: good job XI! :D

You think you would be able to create a write up on this? I mean... I'd hope to do the same with my GA in the near future, as It hasnt been taken apart like so for a while... although I can only imagine the hours you put into that project :headshake - Guess it'd take a while

I'd like to know, if/what changes.. valves, new oem gaskets?, DETAILS!!! :grinyes:

edit:---

I've watched that video about 6-8 times now :D, I'm lovin it lol

the valve covers and intakes look good.

Sounds good. Glad you got it to fire up. Gotta question though, how in the hell did you get that rear valve cover off? Both times I worked on my car I had to work around it

Thankx !
Very carefully! :lol:
You have to remove the ICM and coils, oh and the alternator to remove the back valve cover.

Nothnig is easy to get to anymore on automobiles.

:thumbsup: good job XI! :D

You think you would be able to create a write up on this? I mean... I'd hope to do the same with my GA in the near future, as It hasnt been taken apart like so for a while... although I can only imagine the hours you put into that project :headshake - Guess it'd take a while

I'd like to know, if/what changes.. valves, new oem gaskets?, DETAILS!!! :grinyes:

edit:---

I've watched that video about 6-8 times now :D, I'm lovin it lol


Thankx Gir ! :D

ITs not an easy job , especialy if you've never done anything like this before. Installing the headers on a 1-10 scale is a 10+ !

I couldnt even tell you the hours I have into it, over 2 weeks. Though it looks like new, even down under.

I might do a small write up on the headers and I might add some stuff for the heads/intake procedure just takes a lot of time writing it all out, and I dont have a lot of that right now, 4 H season. So my kids have all these projects due in 7-8 days.

Going to finish the CaT back exhaust today hopefully.
Just driving it down my road lastnight to get the air pockets out, I got pulled over by a state cop.
I didnt shut it off right away and we couldnt even hear what each other was saying. :cwm27:
He said it was not street legal, I said "duh!". :rofl:

The headers did turn an off white right where they come off the heads, still look great tho.I must have washed my hands 20 times when I was assembling everything, thats how you keep it looking clean tho.
And smoked like a hell too when I first started it, and even after I ran it for a while. My garage still smells funny.

Here is another short video (http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/?action=view&current=GreenHornet2.flv).
It is running a little rough, needs plug wires, I have those Taylor wires back orderd....

Now to keep it under 3k rpms for the next 600-700 miles, then an oil change.

Oh yeah, I also painted my water pump pulley, just for J-Ri. :lol:

Edit--

The gasket set I used for the heads and intakes was Fel Pro HS 9071 PT (http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=FEL&MfrPartNumber=HS9071PT).
Here is a pic of the parts list (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/head_set.jpg)for the head gasket set, larger pic for legability.

Only things you need to buy is the new LI bolts and the new Head bolts, about $100.

Oh yeah, I also painted my water pump pulley, just for J-Ri. :lol:


Green?

You'll have to keep painting it though, the belt tends to rub the paint off :biggrin:

That does sound nice, even on these crappy little speakers.

I didnt paint the part that the belt runs on, just the face. :)

Here are the Taylor wires I orderd, the black ones. :)
http://www.car-stuff.com/store/?N=11519+4294967267+1697+11920+9226
Cheaper then PFYC ! :grinyes:

Also the 1500 deg paint is flaking off the collectors, but I think it'll stay white right at the heads exit. Either way its got balzz now ! lol

Sweet!!!! You did an awesome job on the GT! The painting came out great, and it sounds nice an evil. :evillol:

Thankx grfnkl !

Yeah the headers definatly gave it some badly needed uuummfffff !

Still have air trapped in the system or the cheapo thermo is bad. :rolleyes: I'm pulling it tomorrow to test, I have a 180 deg coming from PFYC.

I did tottally drain the system (block heatercore radiator)and havnt realy driven it. It seems to do great untill you get on it a couple times then the temp shoots up to 220 , then drops back down as a big gulpe comes from the reservoir . Still takin it easy on it. :cwm27:

Thankx grfnkl !

Yeah the headers definatly gave it some badly needed uuummfffff !

Still have air trapped in the system or the cheapo thermo is bad. :rolleyes: I'm pulling it tomorrow to test, I have a 180 deg coming from PFYC.

I did tottally drain the system (block heatercore radiator)and havnt realy driven it. It seems to do great untill you get on it a couple times then the temp shoots up to 220 , then drops back down as a big gulpe comes from the reservoir . Still takin it easy on it. :cwm27:

you'll love the taylor wires if you dont already got a pair, I cant remember, Id say go the same as I did, MSD coilpacks (repainted green or black of course :D ), taylor spiro pro, and the iridium plugs... did wonders, and its actually a pretty nice combo, I've driven another grand am that was similar to mine, had an ebay CAI, and cheapo exhaust, still kinda quick but no tune or ignition... we got it in the lot for the used car dept. I took it to go get gas lol...

when I did add the addition of the MSD coilpacks... it made my idle much much smoother, pulls through the RPMS very smoothly

Well the airs out and its running much cooler now! :D

Used this little device with a hose to the resevoir.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC_94.jpg

Also made some adjustments to the hose on the bleeder.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/DSC_95.jpg

The green arrow I moved this end up and the blu arrow I cut about 1/2" off to straighten the bend when the red arrow is. ANd the yello arrow is a bubble. :)
That along with the bleeder hose seemed to fix my troubles.

Its running very smooth now, rpms jump up quicker then before, it probly cut 1-1.5 secs off my 0-60mph times.

PFYC are some slowass shippers ! :disappoin

they get em from another company then they send it out... sorta sucks if they dont have it ready in stock...

That's what I figured Gir, so I searched and found these for less and less shipping. Still havnt got the thermo from them and it was in stock.

Oh well the one I have seems to be working alright for now. I should have modified the head gaskets like I did on the SE. :grinyes:

Well Here are some pics of the headers.
After about 10 miles...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/chipp1.jpg

This is after 250 miles...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/chipp2.jpg

Sooooo that wasa waste of $50!! :banghead:

Wierd how the grey primer is staying on.. at least my MPG has improved under normal driving, up from 22 mpg city to 24mpg city.

One thing I forgot to mention on the heads and thier gaskets. I would install them the same way the old ones were on, metal tabs connecting cylinder rings facing up. The only reason I brought this up is the gaskets dont say this side up or anything.
Here are a couple pics of the two... best I could find at the moment.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/oldgasketface.jpg

New Fel Pro w/bottom up, not the way I installed them.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/Exhaust%20Project/Newgasketbottomsup.jpg


I did talk to a Tech at Federal-Mogul (Fel Pro) and they said it doesnt matter which way these go.

Also be sure to clean the new bolts with a wire brush to knock off the excess anti corrosion material or they'll loose torqu over time. :thumbsup:

I've moved this thread to the N Body Performance for further use. :thumbsup: