Honda Accord 4cyl - starting problem when hot

I have a 1999 Accord (4cyl) and it gives me lot of problem in summer. Problem is that it fails to start whenever I want to restart it just a few minutes after stopping it. If I let the car cool down for about 10 mins it just starts up fine. There is no problem with the battery as everything other than ignition (radio, lights etc) seems to be work fine at that time. I was seeing this problem last summer, but few days back when the temp shot up to 100 deg and my car was parked in open, when I tried to start it (it was parked for past 6 hrs in sun), it just didn't start. I left the car there and came back after dark when the temp had gone down and the car started without any problem. I am not sure what part (some electronic I guess) is causing this problem. Please help!

It would be good to know your mileage and maintenance history.

Older Accords used to have that kind of problems with the Main relay. For 99 Accord I would look into spark plugs, wires, distributor cap.

Check out battery cables and ground connections as well.

Good luck,

Sam

Thanks for your reply, I will update the posting as soon as I get some outcome.
My Accord has 95K miles on it and has been regularly serviced/maintained, not at dealer though!
I read many postings about "main relay" being the cluprit but none of the postings confirmed the outcome of changing the same, so I started this new thread.

yeah I can't tell you anything specific either, but in general it's symptomatic of heat soak in a bad position sensor (crank/cam) or ignition spark module, or the main relay (which I don't have much experience with)

P.S. sometimes you can find problems like this with a hair dryer....

With the engine cold, heat up the different suspect parts individually until they are well saturated with heat, then try to start the car. If that's not it, let it cool down, verify that the car still starts, and try the next component.

If it's a heat soak problem you'll usually cause the no start, and you'll know what you gotta do...

You can check your main relay by pulling it out and looking at the solders to see if there are any cracks or gaps. It is pretty easy to fix. Just heat the solder up and get a solder remover to pull it all off. Then solder it back up. Should be good as new. Had to do this to my wifes car last year and it worked great.

Hi, I have been to 2 experienced mechanics since I posted the thread. One of them kept the car for 3-4 days to be able to reproduce the problem (does not start when really hot) but failed. He anyway hooked his monitoring system (computer) to the car, but the car did not give any indication of any problem with the main relay or any other part. The guy suspects that the problem maybe with the fuel pump, but wil not work on it unless the problem is reproduced.
The other guy told me that this may be due to a faulty "crank sensor" which cost about $400 at dealership. We talked about the main relay too and he said it would cost about $65 (from dealer). He too suggested that we should wait till the problem is reproduced.
However the problem occurs while I am miles away from these guys.. so it is nearly impossible to reproduce it. I am not able to use the car comfortably because of this.
Someone in the forum suggested to use a hair dryer by heating up the "suspect" parts to reproduce the issue. Can someone please help me locate the position of the crank sensor, main relay and Ignition spark module, so that I can try the trick.

The problem has been nailed to some extent (after 2 hours of trying to reproduce the issue and restarting car over a 100 times). The issue is with one of the components within the distributor. The guy who checked it found that the current was going into the distributor but not coming out of it into the spark plugs, when the car got into the problem mode (not starting). We were unable to reproduce the issue so could not nail it down any further. The conclusion was that I should change the whole distributor before I get into some real trouble on road (car dies in middle of a highway while going at 65mph). The cost of distributor (Bosch) as quoted by the guy was $400. I cannot afford that .. can someone please suggest what brand and price should I be looking at and can get it from where at a reasonable rate? also it will be great if I can get the exact part number needed .. this is for a 1999 Accord (4 Cyl) LX model.

The problem has been nailed to some extent (after 2 hours of trying to reproduce the issue and restarting car over a 100 times). The issue is with one of the components within the distributor. The guy who checked it found that the current was going into the distributor but not coming out of it into the spark plugs, when the car got into the problem mode (not starting). We were unable to reproduce the issue so could not nail it down any further. The conclusion was that I should change the whole distributor before I get into some real trouble on road (car dies in middle of a highway while going at 65mph). The cost of distributor (Bosch) as quoted by the guy was $400. I cannot afford that .. can someone please suggest what brand and price should I be looking at and can get it from where at a reasonable rate? also it will be great if I can get the exact part number needed .. this is for a 1999 Accord (4 Cyl) LX model.
Looks like your mechanic is right:

http://estore.honda.com/epc/asp/rjane007.asp

But there is always a chance to find a used part at a junk yard.

Good luck,

Sam

i bought a whole distributor from AUTODOCTOR.COM for $150.00. it was for a 1992 model though. it came complete and ready to drop in (cap and button included). maybe they can help

Thanks you everyone for helping me on this. I got a used distributor assy from ebay ($35 + $10shipping). Paid $40 to put it in (10 mins). Paid him $40 as he had spent lot of time with me in shortlisting the cause of the problem. I am hoping that the problem is fixed. But will have to wait for a very hot day to make sure it is gone.
Thanks experts!

Hi, Today morning when I was driving to office, my car's ignition went off. Fortunately I was on one of the back roads so was able to pull the car to a side road before it lost momentum.
I thought that the problem (not starting when hot) was resolved since I changed the distributor, but it seems that either there were multiple problems to begin with or it was just a coincidence that the car was behaving properly since the distributor was changed.
Today the car was not even hot as it was a cool morning. Also not starting when hot different from dying on road while driving. When the ignition goes off by itself all the indicators (brake, door, battery, blinkers etc etc) on the dash board lit up. The battery is fine.

Car details:
Honda Accord 1999
4 cyl (Automatic)
Mileage 100300

Please help.

See if that information can help you:

http://www.visualimpressions.ca/switch/

Sam

Hi Somick, it seems that the symptoms of the problem with my car are slightly different from the problem due to issues with the ignition switch.

In my case the car fails to start for about 5-10 mins, so even if I keep trying to turn it on, the engine will keep cranking, but would not actually start, and once I just leave the car for 10 mins and try again, it would start normally.
It has always been like that and that's the reason that I thought that the problem was with some part/sensor getting over heated and leaving it for 5-10 mins cools it down and the car re-starts.

But in last 2 cases when I am sure that the car was not "hot" and even outside temp was cool or cold but still the engine died while driving , it has to be something else or a combination of multiple problems.

If your car cranks but would not start it does not get either fuel or spark. Try to check for spark or fuel.

It is easy to check for spark. Pull the plug, ground it and see if it would produce a healthy spark.

In order to check for fuel you need to buy some gauges (if you do not have them already).

Let us start with these two simple tests.

Good luck,

Sam

Hi Sam,

Last time when I was finally able to reproduce the problem at my mechanic's garage (after some 100 attempts to start and restart the car and the mechanic spending over 2 hrs on it with his computer and everything), there was no spark. From the spark test, it was clear that the spark was going up to the distributor but not coming to the plugs, so we changed the distributor. There is a weak possibility that the new distributor is also not functioning properly.
The problem is that there is only one way of testing this and it is when the problem occurs. When the car dies on the road, I have no way to perform the tests as I am alone and no one to crank the engine for me.

I understand that you guys are trying your best to help me but due to the nature of the problem it is becoming impossible to get to the root cause. Other mechanics just stupidly tell me to come when the problem occurs. They don't even get the simple point that I cannot come when the car is not running and when I come the problem is obviously gone.
I am frustrated with this now that I want to sell off the car ... but again my conscience would not let me do that as it is too risky for anyone to drive. I can drive because I know how to handle the car if problem occurs.

I also drive 99 Accord and it happened to die on me two times. It happened in motion and we (my wire and I) were very lucky that there were no accidents and we were able to safely restart a car without any problems.
That was the reason I sent you a link for replacing contacts in the ignition switch.

If you look at the electrical diagram (I do not have one handy), there are few more points that may cause the problem. One of them is main relay. I would test it like it was mentioned in post # 6.

I would also use testing techniques mentioned in the post #5.

I of course appreciate your thoughts about not selling your car. I would not want to stick anybody the way I would not want to be stock myself.

I wish you luck. I wish to hear from you the good news that the problem was pinpointed.

Sam

P.S. And new distributor may be at fault as well.
P.P.S. Since we have exhausted our knowledge, try to post your question at http://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.honda/topics?hl=en
These guys are experts…

Hi, updates for you.
I ordered a new distributor ($300) and also a new relay ($60) - both new and original parts from HONDA dealer.
I got them today so I took the parts to the local mechanic and when the guy came out to check the car and parts, the car failed to start. Now this workshop/garage is hardly half a mile from my home and since I was not using the car from past few days and the tempreture in MA has already dropped to 50, I am sure the car was NOT HOT.
It was perfect timing for the car to stall, the mechanic quickly changed the relay and the car started immediately, just to make sure he put back the old relay again and the car failed to start. Again put in the new one the car started right back up.
So fortunately, the distributor was not put in....I am going to return the same and get back my $300.
So it was the main relay after all.
Conclusion: Main relay can cause not only hot starting problem but also stalling of car while running in cold conditions.
Thanks you all for your quick replies and all the information you provided.
I will again seek your help in case the problem reoccurs.

Glad you finaly found your problem!

Sadly enough this is again a MAIN RELAY!

Sam

Can you please tell me that when the main relay fails, does it stop the spark too? Strangely when the main relay was failing (please see my posting above), there was no spark. My understanding was that main relay controls fuel pump, so how come there was no spark when main relay failed?

Can you please tell me that when the main relay fails, does it stop the spark too? Strangely when the main relay was failing (please see my posting above), there was no spark. My understanding was that main relay controls fuel pump, so how come there was no spark when main relay failed?
That is a good point. We need to look at electrical diagram.

Could it still be your aftermarket distributor?

I am in a process of putting one in my son's 95. I am still in doubts whether to buy an aftermarket one or a new one from Honda.

Sam

I doubt if it was the distributor as the car started immediately back up when we replaced the faulty relay with the new one and when we again put back the faulty relay, the car failed to start. And once again putting the new relay made the car start. All of this heppened within an interval of 3-5 mins.

Everytime the car failed to start there was no spark.
You can look at following link for more info on relays.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayoperation/index.html

Please let me know if you find anything. By the way I bought a genuine Distributor (HITACHI) from HONDA.... just in case.