What type of ABS is on G20s???

Anyone know what type of ABS comes on the P10s and P11s?? This is from se-r.net:

1 or 2 Channel 2-wheel (Rear ABS) - This ABS is usually prevalent on trucks. It consists of 2 ABS sensors on the rear wheels and one or two ABS channels to pulse the rear wheel together (1 channel) or separately (2 channels).
2 Channel 4-wheel Criss-cross - This is the ABS system present on the 91-94 Sentra. It consists of 4 ABS sensors (one on each wheel) and 2 ABS channels arranged in a Criss-cross (Left Front & Right Rear, Right Front & Left Rear). When the right rear wheel locks up, the left front wheel & right rear wheel are pulsed together.
3 Channel 4-wheel - This is the more common ABS system in cars. It consists of 4 wheel sensors and 2 channels in the front (LF, RF) and one channel for the rear wheels. When one of the front wheels locks up, it pulses independently of the other wheels. When one of the rear wheels locks up, it is pulsed together with the other rear wheel, similar to a very fast pulling and releasing of the emergency brake.
4 Channel 4-wheel - This is the ABS system present on the 95+ 200SX/Sentra. It consists of 4 ABS sensors and 4 ABS channels. All wheels pulse independently of each other, like it should be.

should be a 4 channel nippondenso unit most front drive cars come this way . a 1 channel unit is used in the rear of pick up trucks to keep the rear wheels from locking up . never heard of 3 channel . 4 channel has to be used in front drive as there isnt a spinning solid axel for a rear speed sensor to read . now how the abs unit controlls this and pulses the brakes is where you get the diffrences in the 4 channel units . from what i can see on the g it pulses the rears at the same time and controlls the fronts indepently of eachother as i can find only 3 dump/isolate solenoids . so in our cars case maybe it is a 4 channel non integral unit as the solenoid block is seperate from the master cylander . coarse this depends on your school of thought some comapnys say a 4 channel is one that has 4 wheel speed sensors but pulses the rears at the same time on each side and others say its 4 wheel speed sensors and a unit that controlls each wheel independently . my advice: talk to a service rep at your dealer

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
never heard of 3 channel

The front wheels are controlled independently and the rears are controlled together.

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
4 channel has to be used in front drive as there isnt a spinning solid axel for a rear speed sensor to read

That is not correct. The B13 Sentra has a 2 channel system. The RF and LR are on one circuit and the LF and RR are on another. This raises hell for autocrossers when the rear wheel lifts off the ground.

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
from what i can see on the g it pulses the rears at the same time and controlls the fronts indepently of eachother as i can find only 3 dump/isolate solenoids.

According to the FSM it has 4. BTW, what you described is a 3 channel.

"That is not correct. The B13 Sentra has a 2 channel system. The RF and LR are on one circuit and the LF and RR are on another. This raises hell for autocrossers when the rear wheel lifts off the ground.
"

probably why it isnt used anymore


"According to the FSM it has 4. BTW, what you described is a 3 channel."

ok so how would it controll boath rear wheels indepently with one solenoid for the rear?reread my post about the diffrent schools of thought on 4 channel and i guess then that makes the G20 a three channel system so i was wrong there see why i told them they sould talk to a service rep ?


maybe if someone has a question you should awnser it instead of waiting for someone else to try to awnser and pounce on the poor sucker that at least tried to help someone out . knollage is like a big peeder good to have but if you flaunt it around wrong your gonna piss people off . we got into this on that turbo vs superchager post and i really dont wanna go there again

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
probably why it isnt used anymore

For sure it's one of the reasons.

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
ok so how would it controll boath rear wheels indepently with one solenoid for the rear?

My FSM (sitting right next to me) says the G20 has one solenoid per wheel.

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
reread my post about the diffrent schools of thought on 4 channel


I wasn't trying to disagree with you. I was just illustrating.

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
maybe if someone has a question you should awnser it instead of waiting for someone else to try to awnser and pounce on the poor sucker that at least tried to help someone out .


First of all, I do answer a great many questions as soon as I see them. I don't wait for someone else to answer (usually). However, while it seems I live my life on-line, I don't have time to answer every question I know the answer to. There are certainly people who can answer many questions here. When someone is wrong, I just try to correct everyone's knowledge. I don't try to demean anyone. I didn't pounce on you. I just corrected you. I don't see what's wrong with that. Hey, when I'm wrong, I like to be corrected and I acknowlege when I'm wrong as well.

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
knollage is like a big peeder good to have but if you flaunt it around wrong your gonna piss people off . we got into this on that turbo vs superchager post and i really dont wanna go there again

Much of what you said was wrong. Sorry. I can't help that. I'm not going to ignore incorrect info. What good would that do besides make you feel better?

As for the knowledge thing, I agree. I suppose I could just stop giving people answers to their questions. But, I think there are a lot of people who want to learn, including me. I've learned a lot here and on the SE-R Mailing List and I'm still eager to learn. I also like to share what I've learned. I consider it giving back. I know a lot of people with a lot of knowledge who really just don't care much to share it. I think that's sad.

Look, I'm not trying to make you look stupid. If you are hurt by an answer I give, let me know. I'm not trying to make anyone look stupid (unless they give me an attitude - then all bets are off). So, I'll apologize if I made you feel bad. It wasn't my intent. My intent is to share info and make sure folks get the most correct info.

guess i come off like a whiner dont i hehehe
by all means if you know beatter then say so its just been a vibe i get from you (couple other guys commented on it once too) that you come off as a supreme being when you reply and id hate to see someone get turned off of the club because of it. i actualy learn from ya so dont run silent on my accord. i come in here and learn alot and i feel like i need to contribute wherever i can too and if it means screwing something up and you comeing out to correct it then the guy walks away with the info he needs

so where is the 4th solenoid ? i looked again at the car (1996) and it isnt there just a block of three in the passenger side front of the engine bay , your FSM is for your 91 right? think they would changed from 4 to 3 ? or is this solenoid somewhere else ? whatever it is it gets one hell of a workout on the ice up here.

as for the b13 kids why dont they just pull a fuse or make a ouick fix fault in the abs controller for the event so it doesnt activate dureing the event?you would think nissan woulda thought about that happening in a SER as it would for sure see autocross duty.


mike

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
guess i come off like a whiner dont i hehehe

Not in my book. Not at all.

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
by all means if you know beatter then say so its just been a vibe i get from you (couple other guys commented on it once too) that you come off as a supreme being when you reply and id hate to see someone get turned off of the club because of it.

I know. I try to be aware of that but I'm not aware as I should be. Mike Kojima and a few others on the SE-R list get that too. I think it comes from trying to be as helpful as possible , while being able to maintain some balance in our lives. I often get over 100 e-mails a day (but the SE-R list has been rather quiet lately). Then there is this forum. I almost didn't join because I wasn't sure I had the time. In fact, I dropped off the SoCal SE-R list (where I have a great many friends) so I could contribute here instead.

Usually, if I'm trying to give someone the business, it's extremely obvious (I rarely pull punches) and it's usually because someone has given me an attitude. I think that's pretty normal. On of the other things is I'm pretty active here, so people read my writing a lot, so there is more opportunity to read something that someone doesn't like or rubs them the wrong way. That part just comes down to percentages.

As for coming off as a supreme being, believe me, I don't feel that way. I can be as full of horsepucky as the next person. You will find that when I'm wrong, I not only admit it, but apologize for misleading people.

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
i actualy learn from ya so dont run silent on my accord. i come in here and learn alot and i feel like i need to contribute wherever i can too and if it means screwing something up and you comeing out to correct it then the guy walks away with the info he needs

Don't worry Mike, I'm not going anywhere. I like this group. To be honest, I wasn't sure what to expect here. I'm really glad to say there is a core group that is really serious. That is what keeps me around. I don't read or contribute much on the SR20DE forum because I think there is entirely too much BS there.

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
so where is the 4th solenoid ? i looked again at the car (1996) and it isnt there just a block of three in the passenger side front of the engine bay , your FSM is for your 91 right? think they would changed from 4 to 3 ?

You know, I started wondering about this after my last message. I think it's quite possible they did change it. I know the early ABS units are different from the older ones. Anyone with a later FSM willing and able to confirm the number of soleniods on the ABS system?

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
as for the b13 kids why dont they just pull a fuse or make a ouick fix fault in the abs controller for the event so it doesnt activate dureing the event?you would think nissan woulda thought about that happening in a SER as it would for sure see autocross duty.

A lot of people do pull the fuse and many are just removing the system altogether. What's weird about the 2 channel system in the classic SE-R is the NX2000 uses the same system and that car was Nissan's SCCA club racer (so the ABS was ineffective on the race cars).

I have to say that although I have only done 30 or so posts, a lot of my questions were answered by George. In my mind he is the most knowledgeable person on this forum.

I did not intend to start an argument, I was just curious about the Gs ABS system. Anyway, I have been doing some research because my ABS had been malfunctioning for the past few months. Here is a post I made about it:
__________________________________________________ __________

My anti-lock brakes come on at random times. For instance, I am at a red light, fully stopped and my pedal starts pulsating. Not as loud or as strong of a feeling in the pedal as when you are sliding on ice but very noticeable.

Sometimes the anti-lock brake light will come on on the dash when I am just driving on the highway...stay on for the whole trip...and then when I reach my destination and shut the car off and back on...the light goes away for another month or so.

I have had it looked at by Infiniti and my mechanic but they both said they can't do anything without the abs light on so they can get the code. Infiniti said dust could have built up in the sensors but there was nothing they could do.

Any clues or experience with this problem?????
__________________________________________________ __________

This still happens!!!!! I have not had a chance to go to my mechanic while the ABS light was on to get this problem diagnosed. After doing some research, I think it is either misaligned/bad speed sensors or bad ABS sensors. Any clues?

Originally posted by P10DET

You know, I started wondering about this after my last message. I think it's quite possible they did change it. I know the early ABS units are different from the older ones. Anyone with a later FSM willing and able to confirm the number of soleniods on the ABS system?


Umm I was lookin in the 93.5 Supplement and they really dont have anything in there about the ABS for the BR section soo it looking back at the '93 it looks like Geo is right about the four sensors. Each wheel has it's own sensor...

It also says in here that "The ECU directs the actuator to increase, hold, or decrease hydraulic pressure to all or individual wheels."

From this it looks like maybe they are all independent?...i dont want to say for sure because im really not sure.

Hmm neat..."The rear wheels utilize a load-sensing valve to further prevent wheel locking, especially under minimum vehicle load conditions."

yes each wheel does have its own sensor but i can only find three soleniods on the soleonid block for that actual dump/isolate/hold function . the controller gets signals from all four wheels but how is it controlling each of the 4 wheels individally with only 3 soleniods? also is the controoler for the ABS in the same computer as the engines ? or its its brain somewhere else ? i really need to find a 1996 service manual its too hard to talk about this car without one ...


mike
1996 G20

Guys.....take a look at this, maybe it will help.......

http://www.carparts.com/parts/sample.asp?reflink=0-0-0-0-0&SegmentId=1&parttypeid=12010&vehicleid=56596&catalogid=&partnum=NONE&dc=

Originally posted by Soleman20
Guys.....take a look at this, maybe it will help.......

http://www.carparts.com/parts/sample.asp?reflink=0-0-0-0-0&SegmentId=1&parttypeid=12010&vehicleid=56596&catalogid=&partnum=NONE&dc=

Doesnt do anything? :) heh

Originally posted by stoneage_tech
yes each wheel does have its own sensor but i can only find three soleniods on the soleonid block for that actual dump/isolate/hold function . the controller gets signals from all four wheels but how is it controlling each of the 4 wheels individally with only 3 soleniods? also is the controoler for the ABS in the same computer as the engines ? or its its brain somewhere else ? i really need to find a 1996 service manual its too hard to talk about this car without one ...


Mike, I know the actuator changed at some point. I think you really hit on it..... at some point it changed from 4 solenoids to 3. That would make some sense, althought I don't really know why Nissan would do such a thing.

OK- I am a virgin at this so don't jump down my phone wire if I do it wrong. Have a 2001 Camry, everytime I go down my driveway, (8-10 % downhill with a switchback turn), the anti locks come on with gentle brake effort. Dealer says "not to worry" but I doubt if he duplicated the problem. whats up ??

Originally posted by goldengate
OK- I am a virgin at this so don't jump down my phone wire if I do it wrong. Have a 2001 Camry, everytime I go down my driveway, (8-10 % downhill with a switchback turn), the anti locks come on with gentle brake effort. Dealer says "not to worry" but I doubt if he duplicated the problem. whats up ??

If this is the first time you put your car in gear after startup and move, it is the self-test feature of the ABS and it is normal.

If the ABS light does not stay on in the dash, then there should be no problem with the system.

Just to make sure, go down the driveway and let it happen, then backup and try it again and see if it does it again. If it only happens the first time, then it is definatly the self-test feature.

so i am confused as hell, i was under the impression that the p10 had 4 channel, although that doesn't matter.

but which is the best? i do know that under hard braking on slippery surfaces from high speeds, the g20's abs does an utmost excellent job of bringing that car down to a screeching halt and keeps the car in a straight line. even straight line braking in rain made the ass end come out a little, but was always brought back inline. even going into a corner too hot and standing on the brakes never brought the ass end around in my car. i was rather impressed. keep in mind i had 300zxTT brakes though.

anyways, i sold the G and have since then picked up a 91 se-r with no ABS, and i kinda admit that i want it(abs) back. i haven't f'ed around in a se-r with abs, but chances are it is inferior to the g20's setup. i have heard negative comments. sooo, i was thinking about gettin an abs setup from a g20 and slapping it on an se-r. worth my troubles i don't really know, but if it has the same effect on a se-r as it did with my g20, i would be pleased. anybody have any experience in the two different cars? george what is your opinion? i'm a dumb monkey willing to try anything. i live in the northwest and weather gets rather shitty, like not being able to see where you are going for brief moments to some really damn slick roads. and does the p10 incorporate any gyroscopes or acceleramometers(sp?). there are times when i swear the car just pulled itself into line after stepping out a little. no countersteer on my part.

also, no human can duplicate what ABS can do. "pumping" brakes is rather ineffective. granted you can modulate brakes to the point where you might get shorter stopping distances, but that is like 1 time out of 10. and in a panic situation*(say you have a dumptruck heading straight for you), many of us, including myself, do not posses the self composure to modulate, let alone modulate and steer at the same time. *you very rarely see accidents coming on the street, you have very little time to react.

ABS(4 channel, which i swear the G is)can also distribute the braking power to the wheel(s) with the most traction, something NOBODY can do, many times preventing massive oversteer and understeer due to locked wheels, while also letting the driver maintain steering. can't steer with locked wheels, it's a bitch!

anyways, just my heartfelt $.02 but this discussion is great, in depth techy bullshit. most people would just smile and nod, now knowing what the hell i am even saying.

dustin
ex 92 g20
91 sentra se-r