Help, Crank but no start

Hello Group,

Last time I drive the 92 Metro it was fine. It has been parked about 3 days. I get into it this afternoon to take to shop for alignment and it will not start.

The battery is good, there is fuel in the T/B and it will crank. Before parking it three days ago there was nothing unusual with the engine. It ran great as usual.

Is it safe for me to guess that I need a replacement ignition coil. Oh, BTW it was recently tuned and was running great until this afternoon.

Thanks

Abe:grinyes:

Take a spark plug wire off from the distrubutor cap and see if you have spark.

If not, you know it is the coil, or coil wire.

...If not, you know it is the coil, or coil wire.

False dichotomy.

No spark from coil wire could be a lot of things, including the coil, coil wire, cam sensor, wiring between cam sensor and ECM, ECM, wiring between ECM and coil, broken timing belt, slipping timing sprockets, etc, etc...

But definitely your next step is to do as 94 suggested, and look for spark.

-MechanicMatt

Does it crank a little faster than normal? My money's on the timing belt. Coil is one of the last things I'd look at.

I agree, Woodie. I personally have not had many problems with the coils on these cars, I've had to replace one or two but out of 22 metros with a lot of miles and age, they certainly have not been a problematic component.

Cubano, given your description it's not what I'd call a 'text book' t-belt failure, but it is definitely near the top of the list of things to look at first, right after you look for spark from the coil wire. If no spark, remove your top two timing cover bolts and peel it back to look for a broken timing belt. If you do get spark, conduct a compression test. If your compression numbers are low, look for a dying timing belt (teeth shredding off).

-MechanicMatt

Thanks group for the advice.

I will have a look at it tomorrow after work to determine if there is spark. Regarding the speed which is cranks, it is about the same or slightly slower. OK, if there is spark i will take the T belt cover off and check that out.
The Metro only has 84,000 on it. Can it really be the T-Belt?

hello, ck owners manual normal t/belt replacement 60/80k

Time for me to payback to the community - Happy to do it and I hope my two cents helps:

Cubano - Don't bother looking for a spark.... yet. You'll end up buying an ignition coil, like I did, and waste time and money. Check your timing belt first. It will take 3 minutes.


I had similar problem last month and from the knowledge of this forum was able to fix my car. This is what the forum told me:"Don't replace the coil as it's not your problem.

GM and mr. Hand are spot on.

You have a broken timing belt. The ECM uses the camshaft position sensor pulses to tell it when to trigger the fuel injector and ignition coil. The CPS is located in the distributor and is turned by the camshaft. The camshaft is turned by the crankshaft via the timing belt.

Take out the two 10mm hex bolts at the top of the timing belt cover and yank it back a little to see your shredded timing belt. Thank engineering for non-interference engines eh?"


I must admit I'm not sure of next steps if your belt is OK. Its weird that your belt would break overnight, but eliminate the belt possibility.

Thats my two cents. Good luck and thanks again everyone.

From my problem:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=891446

OK group,

I am getting ready to order the new timing belt and tensioner. The car is a 92 1.0 liter. Which is the best belt to use on this model?

Thanks

Hey

I just finished checking and the T-belt is perfect. I am having a new coil delivered tomorrow. Hopefully that will solve the problem.

Hey

I just finished checking and the T-belt is perfect. I am having a new coil delivered tomorrow. Hopefully that will solve the problem.

:confused: ... What method did you use to determine a "No-Spark" condition on your car, and reason(s) for buying a new coil? As allready mentioned, Just because the timing belt is still good doesn't automatically mean the coil is bad!

Why get advice from the forum, only to shotgun the repair? The coil is most likely not going to solve your problem. Have you checked for spark at the end of the coil wire? If you recall I asked you to do this before looking at the t-belt. Goodluck bud.

-MechanicMatt

ok, this where it is now.

there is spark, and the t belts is not broken. it is in worn shape so it will be changed today. where is the next place to look for the problem?

I'm suprised no one has mentioned fuel delivery. Maybe it is the fuel pump. Have you checked the fuel pressure.

I was thinking the fule sytem next. I do not a tool measure the pressure but I am sure that I can get one soon.

Can someone please connfirm that the fuel pump for a 92 metro is inside the fuel tank?

Thanks for all the help.

The fuel pump is inside the tank.

-MechanicMatt

The fuel pump is in the tank. you can get to the wires under the back seat on passanger side. You can hear if the Fuel pump is running or not for the first 5 secounds after turning the ignition to the on position. To test pressure; purchace a gage from Autozone for $37.00 but it will not fit your car because the 92 metro, has no shrader valve to plug it into near the throttlebody. There are 2 black rubber gas lines atached from the fire wall to the throttlebody. one is thicker then the outher. The thick one is the input from the fuel pump, the thin one is the pressure regulators return line back to the gas tank . Between the 2 on the throttle body is your pressure regulator next to the injector,the regulator is a diphram, controled by the engines vacum;the harder you push on the gas the less vacum that you have, in turn the regulator produces more gas pressure. The fule pressure required is between 23#PSI and 31# PSI. To test the pressure with your new gage, you must adapt it to fit your car. You will need to buy 1.5ft of 3/8" gasline and a tee that will screw in to your new gage. First remove the feed line to the throttle body. Reinstall the new 3/8" gasline inplace of it; cut it in half and install the tee between the 2 half's; attach the gage and clamp hoses. Turn the key on it should read between 23 and 31 lbs. It should hold that pressure level for a while on its own. If it it is low or wont hold, it has eather a weak pump, or a bad pressure regulator. to test the pump; clamp the return line with a pare of vicegrips. then turn on the ignition the gage will go up to 60 lbs or more if the pump is good; and this would mean that the regulator is bad.
Also:To test for a cloged gas filter remove the gage put the gasline in to a milk jug and turn the key on this will show the flow rate; if it is flowing then it is not cloged. I hope this helps you!

dennybam,

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I feel better now reading your write-up. I am not to brave when it comes to Fuel related issues. I will get all the needed test items this weekend and helpfully determine what is really happening with my 92 metro.

regards

cubano 112266

Well, the metro is running again. I did run a few checks again and determined that there is spark, the fuel pump is running. I did change the T-belt and water pump. I figured that at 82 K it needed to be done.

While I had the air cleaner cover off I decided to check that the injector was working. It all checked out so far but still no start.

I knew this was a long shot, but I decided to pull off the runner hose that runs from the top of the valve cover to the pcv valve and the bottom of the air cleaner. I found in the rubber tubing a slimy brown build up. I cleaned out really well and reassembled it. To my surprise the engine started on the second try. I kept it running for a while and it all seemed well.

Can anyone tell me what the heck was stuck in the rubber hose?

Thanks again for all the help.

The slimey brown build up is just oil deposition. I refuse to believe that the build-up in the pcv hose prevented the car from starting. There must be a coincidence happening here. -??-

-MechanicMatt

91Caprice9c1 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=328560)

I agree that it is odd that it would prevent the car from starting, but I did nothing to fule pump and when I changed the T-Belt it was showing it's age but still in one peice.

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Well in any case, all's well that ends well lol. Glad your car is up and running. I bet it's nice being able to stick it to the fuel mongers again. :smokin:

-MechanicMatt

Caprice

You have that right. I am very happy to have the miser running again.:rofl: Once again, thanks for the guidance.

Do you have any advice to prevent the build up of oil sludge again?

Change your oil and filter every 3-4k miles, install a new PCV valve every 2nd or 3rd oil change (overkill? yes, but do it anyway) and when you change the PCV valve, wipe out the tube.

Keep a general practice of maintaining the car and it will treat you well.

-MechanicMatt

thanks,

the car is due for an oil change soon. I have been using 5w-30 mobil one. i will also start changing out the PCV more frequently. sounds like a good move.