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Compression question and valve stem seals


monkeymantn
03-27-2008, 05:02 PM
I've got a 99 Rodeo, that has undergone a total engine rebuild. I had the heads shaved, but did not get a valve job while I had them off (the machine shop said they looked good). Anyway, I am having a plume of white smoke coming out the exhaust when I start my car in the mornings and under hard acceleration. The fumes do not smell like antifreeze, nor do I lose any water. So, I don't think I have a cracked head gasket, head, or block. My thought is that I may have bad valve seat seals, but I need to perform a compression test to rule out bad rings. But, I can't seem to find factory compression numbers anywhere (in print). One previous post here mentioned 150 psi, but another showed numbers around 210 psi. That's a bid difference. So, does anybody know what number I should be looking for when I do the test? Also, is my thinking on track with valve stem seals being a potential cluprit?

Thanks in advance

Dober89
03-27-2008, 11:56 PM
I can't give you the compression number but all 6 cylinders should be fairly close. You could try just comparing the numbers and see if one may come up bad.

monkeymantn
03-29-2008, 05:07 PM
I did my compression test. I compression numbers were as follows:

Dry /Wet
#1 225 240
#2 215 250
#3 220 240
#4 210 230
#5 220 245
#6 210 235

As I mentioned above, I'm interested in stopping the white smoke when I start up the car and under acceleration. Looking at my test results, the increase in pressure could suggest that I've got bad rings. However, I have less than 3,000 miles since my rebuild. So, I don't know if my rings have totally seated yet. Never the less, my numbers seen to be higher than what might be considered normal. One of my plugs,#6, was black and looked dirty and I still don't know if I should tear the heads apart to replace the valve stem seals. Does anybody have some advice as to what I should do in this situation?

Philscbx
03-29-2008, 11:36 PM
Well for one, you can't have bad rings and that high of pressure numbers.
I don't think I've ever seen compression numbers that high actually.
That's called perfection. How can one come to that conclusion their bad?
Valve stem seals should of been replaced regardless. Rubber in hot oil gets hard and brittle.
You'll see this when you go to pull them off and they just crumble.
Oil collects at the base of valve stems, and can dribble into combustion chamber, and possibly on intake stroke getting pulled in.

You can still replace them w/o pulling the heads. Still a pain now.
Hard to believe this was passed on when on the bench.

monkeymantn
03-29-2008, 11:58 PM
When we had the heads off to get leveled, we had the guy at the machine shop clean them as well. I would have assumed that he would have told me that the guides were bad if they indeed were. But, that's what I get for assuming.

I was really hoping/thinking that I didn't have ring problems with compression numbers that high either. But, the fact that they actually increased when I added oil made me question it. I used 2 different compression testers to double check myself (I went and bought another because I couldn't believe the first readings were that high). A family friend (whom is a mechanic) swears that I don't need to replace the guides; he says that the rings just aren't seated fully yet. I'm questioning his judgement on that one, and I think the guides are causing my smoke issues.

Philscbx
03-30-2008, 01:27 AM
I would have assumed that he would have told me that the guides were bad if they indeed were.

I was really hoping/thinking that I didn't have ring problems with compression numbers that high either. But, the fact that they actually increased when I added oil made me question it.

A family friend (whom is a mechanic) swears that I don't need to replace the guides; he says that the rings just aren't seated fully yet. I'm questioning his judgement on that one, and I think the guides are causing my smoke issues. A. It's very well possible the guides are in good shape. The stem seals fit onto valve guides where valve stem passes through the seal. This may be the problem, but not conclusive. Only inspection will determine.
If certain plugs are showing signs, then I'd look at those seals.

If Guides were if fact worn, the stem would be able to move sloppy in the guide. Again w/o close inspection, hard to say. This would also create a problem at the valve seat.

B. Wet and dry testing is normal increase. You are creating a perfect seal with oil.
It's not possible to create a perfect seal otherwise. It just goes downhill from there over time.
The actual hit from explosion of gases forces the rings against the wall when the gases get behind ring groove.

This is why all engines end up with the deep ring groove at top of cylinder that needs to be cut out of cylinders in order to get pistons out. The rings were punched at maximum every time it fires.
This ring groove now grows larger over time now making the rings over work in the piston groove as well.
Now the pistons are not usable in a rebuild. Even though they look innocent.

C. Your partner stated rings are not seated yet is more than likely correct.
Breaking in the rings is not easy in traffic. They expect you to be smoothly mixed in.
Where it would not be unusual to pound the engine hard in every gear, and then back off to let the oil wash down during coasting mode in gear. Then repeat. This isn't the time to baby it.
The cross hatch cut in cylinders job is to reshape the rings during break in.

Building drag racing engines, the trick is to micro drill holes in top of pistons that port gasses directly behind the top ring. It's how we did it 30 years ago. Maybe I should not have reviled that.
When you change oil, you will be flushing the pan out hot, never cold. When oil almost stops, pour in more.
A sacrificed quart done in 3 steps till empty. You can cheat a little.

Picture taking a bath in tub where the dirty water cannot get over 1/2 inch lip of drain plug.
Now add bath water again over cold gel of dirty water trapped. I don't think so Amigo.

Next, cut open filter, and open the pleats to closely inspect for trash. And this can be done long after it drains and cold.

I suspect a month and then compare notes. I wouldn't worry too much right now.
I'll assume the lower end rebuild included a new oil pump......? Or a modified one.
We be watching..

monkeymantn
03-30-2008, 11:05 AM
Thanks for the advice. Yes, the rebuild did include a new oil pump. I guess I'll keep driving it and hope they will break in.

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