2000 GTP won't run.

My 2000 GTP with 97k decided to stop running yesterday. Symptoms were that it turns over, but feels and sounds like no fuel. Fuel pump sounds to be working so I replaced filter and verified that pump works. But no change in symptoms. If I throttle during startup and keep RPM at about 2-2.5k then it runs but very poorly and with some dark smoke from the exhaust.

Only mods is a deleted u-bend and resonator (2 years and 30k ago), K&N drop in air filter, and synthetic motor oil. Oil is fresh and filter is clean. I'm thinking it could be MAF sensor, O2 sensor, or plugs/wires/ignition all of which are factory still. Any ideas?

Welcome to AF.

Disconnect the MAF sensor and see what it does.

Thanks for the great help!

I just pulled the MAF connector and it runs great after about 5-10 seconds of rough idle. Ran the car for a while, reconnected the MAF and after about 5 minutes same problem. So I'm reasonably sure it is the MAF sensor, or electronics associated.

Having reviewed several threads on this site and some others, I'm wondering now if I should perhaps get the upgraded throttle body with sensor as it seems that it is the same price or lower than the GM MAF. Local auto store only has remanufactured and I've read evil things about those. Any suggestions?

You're welcome and thanks for the feedback. It may run rough at idle while disconnected until the engine warms up sufficiently but it does sound like your MAF sensor even though there are probably no DTCs or SES/CEL light.

Are you referring to the ZZP Stage I or II throttle body?

Also, since you have a K&N drop in flat filter you might consider removing it and cleaning with the recharge kit but use the spray-on filter oil only. Some members complained in the past about filter oil contaminating the MAF sensor wire element but we had a K&N rep come on and tried to tell us it was B.S. Also, it would not hurt to clean the MAF wire element with MAF spray cleaner or electrical contact cleaner. All that holds the MAF to the TB are two Torx T20 tamper proof screws in which you will need the special tool to get it off without damaging the screws.

I am referring to the ZZP Stage 1 or 2 TB. Any experience with those?

I took apart the intake and thoroughly cleaned the K&N, air box, connector hose, and exterior of the screen. All appeared very clean. I oiled the K&N with the recharge kit and normally do it about every 10-15k since installing it about 3 years ago. I'm not opposed to upgrading the TB, plugs/wires/coils if it will help with any performance. I've been itching to do some additional mods and maybe this is a good excuse to do it. :grinyes:

Thanks again for the great advice and quick responses.

I have the Stage 1 installed. The Stage II gets a recalibrated MAF sensor which I found was not necessary and a few minor improvements. Just be sure to follow ZZP's core refund procedure and get the core back to them in a timely manner.

It never hurts for mods on a GTP and there is so much aftermarket out there based on what performance you are looking for and how deep your pockets are. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Just recieved my stage 1 throttle body from zzp and installed it. So Far so good. Came with everything I needed, and I agree with Bob, the stage two really isnt necessary for the higher price.

I bought my throttle body for the same reason as you, my MAF went out. Dealer wanted 325.00 for a replacement. So I just bought the whole new T-body. It came with 3 new AC-Delco sensors for 299 with a 90.00 core charge. I was pretty impressed, although I havnt driven it yet to see how it runs, but I'm sure it will be fine. Still not sure if I want to send them back my core yet, or if I just want to keep it for a spair. I think they might deduct some money due to my failed MAF (keep that in mind when you order)

Just placed the order for the Stage 1. Will report when I get it installed next week. I do expect a deduction from the core for the bad MAF. Thanks to both of you for the helpful information.

Hey, just to let everyone know to watch out when ordering "pre-paid return lables" from ZZP. I ordered one with my Stage 1 throttle body for $10.00. When my t-body arrived it was shipped priority so it was in a priority box. So, when I got it installed, I boxed my old t-body up in the same priority mail box that the stage 1 came from and affixed my return lable. When I went to go mail it, the clerk told me that the shipping lable that I had affixed to it was for usps, and since it was in a priority box, that we couldnt send it. Rather than have to deal with it and argue, I just paid the 8.60 to ship it priority and ate the 10 bucks I paid to zzp for the usps lable.

Moral of the story, save yourself the headaches and get your own postage on the box. I thought I'd save some time, but in fact ended up costing more in the long run.

Thanks for the headsup. I didn't choose the prepaid, so I'll be picking up shipping anyway.

How did the install go? Anything you can report on your results thus far?

bj

you know, I havnt noticed any difference in performance, but I really dont beat on my car at all, so I guess i wouldnt notice any.

Install went really smooth. I have never had a throttle body off of a 3800 before, but I will say its way easier than the 3100

Just make sure when you remove yours that you dont have any pressure in your cooling system. I didnt realize that coolant flows through the 3800 throttle body and when I started to remove the bolts, since my car was warm, coolant started to squirt out. So I tightened it and let the pressure out of the radiator cap instead. Didnt lose hardly any coolant, though you might want to have a pan handy to catch any that does come out.

ZZP sent a new gasket, so I think you'll be good to go.

I didnt realize that coolant flows through the 3800 throttle body

yeah, alot of ppl bypass that system cuz it actually keeps the throttle body much cooler w/o hot coolant going through it, but us up in the frozen tundra cant do that cuz it will freeze up in the winter :frown:

you know, I havnt noticed any difference in performance, but I really dont beat on my car at all, so I guess i wouldnt notice any.

Install went really smooth. I have never had a throttle body off of a 3800 before, but I will say its way easier than the 3100

Just make sure when you remove yours that you dont have any pressure in your cooling system. I didnt realize that coolant flows through the 3800 throttle body and when I started to remove the bolts, since my car was warm, coolant started to squirt out. So I tightened it and let the pressure out of the radiator cap instead. Didnt lose hardly any coolant, though you might want to have a pan handy to catch any that does come out.

ZZP sent a new gasket, so I think you'll be good to go.

Yup, our TBs are heated to include the N/A 3800s. I installed the heat spacer which blocks off the coolant ports and helps isolate the TB from supercharger heat.

I know what you mean on the 3100/3400. It is those frick'ng external coolant lines and removing the heater return line and the tower on the waterpump. :screwy: Just did one last week. RSM Racing/Z-Spec 62mm polished and ported throttle body. See pic below.

The ZZP Stage 1 TB by itself won't do that much as far as in the seat of your pants feel until you get other mods like the re-programmed PCM module (DHP, Intense, ZZP). I installed mine for the sole purpose to help reduce KR in conjunction with the SLP headers. Intake + exhaust mods = less KR.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC08242.jpg

Can someone of you suggest what and where I should get for replacing the plugs and wires? I don't have plans to do any more to the exhaust than I've done, but I am planning to replace the PCM after the t-body. I've also got a 180 deg t-stat.

Wide variety of choices out there starting with the stock AC Delco Premium Silicone 7mm wires. Taylor Spiro Pro 8mm are excellent considering the cost. Also, the MSD 8 or 8.5mm superconductor wires. Plus you can get Taylor and MSD in different colors. For plugs and if you have no plans to go to a smaller SC pulley (higher boost) use the AC Delco 41-101 Iridium or NGK variants like the TR55IX Iridium or OEM Laser Iridium which are the same as the AC Delco 41-101 since they are made by NGK.

Thanks again Bob. What if I wanted to go to a 3.5 or 3.4 pulley? Would I then want to go with a different plug/wire? And if I do those now will I have any trouble running the stock pulley until I decide if I want to downsize?

You could stay with the same wires. It really doesn't make any difference since all recommended work fine. On spark plugs many of us use the Autolite Copper Core plugs (non Platinum or Iridium) but in colder ranges depending on SC pulley size. With a 3.5 or 3.4 you go at least one range colder. Autolite 605 (one range) or 104 (two ranges). 606 is equivalent to stock. You can run one range colder plugs now even before the SC pulley mod so it will be ready to go when you do get it installed. Also you could use the Autolite AP or APP which has the same numbering system as the copper core. The AP are single platinum. The APP are double platinum.

Any experience with the Autolite XP605? They are a couple of bucks more than the APP605. And are the Napa 'Performance' wires any better than my stock wire set? I'm not sure $110 for new MSD wires is the best use of funds considering I also need to redo the suspension next week. But I don't want to cut corners that will reduce any benefit I expect from other mods.

Okay. 10:20 pm and just finished the ZZP Stage 1 TB install along with AP605 plugs and MSD wires. Changing spark plugs sucks! The back 3 were actually easier and the plugs were a lot cleaner. The fronts were rough and all three plugs were hammered. No wonder I've lost a lot of zip. Car runs significantly smoother. No lag whatsoever when go to WOT from a rolling idle.

However, when I removed the old TB, the inside of my S/C was very, very dirty. Walls are caked with what I can only describe as black crusted gunk. Would some good quality fuel system cleaner in the tank help? Or do I need to get out the elbow grease and clean it up (very carefully)?

Thanks for all the advice and help on the initial problem hear. The GP is now back to life!

Thanks for the feedback.

It won't make any difference because what you are seeing is normal carbon buildup and the effect of the hot exhaust gases being recirculated back into the intake system when the EGR valve is commanded to be active. Just a good cleanup with throttle body spray cleaner. A fuel injection system system additive/cleaner added to the gas tank will not work to get rid of it. The other option is to use GM Top Engine cleaner or Seafoam via the intake system.

Hey guys;
First I wanted to thank you for the info you have posted on here.

I came out of Golden Corral last night, and my beloved 2000 GTP wouldn't start. It had been running perfect since replacing the fuel pump about 8 months ago.
It would try and start, only to fall on its face and die. After checking some fuses and things, and checking to see if I could hear the fuel pump pressurize, I finally gave up and had her towed home. :crying:
I went out to see if it would start this morning, and it fired right up! I let it run long enough to get to running temp, and then shut it off. Tried to start it again...no go....same thing.
So, after reading on here about the MAF, I went out and tried to start it again...no go. I then unplugged the MAF, and BINGO, she fired right up! So, the next step will be to get the torx wrench to take out the MAF to try and clean it and see if that works. If it doesn't, then it looks like GM will get to hose me on a new MAF!:shakehead
Anyway, I wanted to post to say thanks for the info, and to add my info for some other unlucky schmuck that will be searching the net for the same thing someday.

Thanks, Brad

Brad, save yourself some cash and get one from ZZPerformance.com The dealership wants $325.00 for one. You shouldnt have any problems running with your faulty one disconnected for a week while you wait for ZZP to ship one.

Sorry Bob!

Sorry Bob!

Uh? :confused:

Sorry about what Tim? I was out with the crew riding my Honda MX bike all afternoon. I don't live on AF. :lol:......:uhoh:

Uh? :confused:

Sorry about what Tim? I was out with the crew riding my Honda MX bike all afternoon. I don't live on AF. :lol:......:uhoh:

In a word..... resurrection

Sounds like fun! I just got home from work not long ago, Busted a shoplifter!

Sucessfully did the the lower intakes on that 3100 grand am yesterday if you havn't heard.... Job well done, mainly thanks to Rich for all the help with Part Numbers.

In a word..... resurrection

Sounds like fun! I just got home from work not long ago, Busted a shoplifter!



Ah so! Hi-jacked thread? No biggy Tim as long it is not an old thread. :wink:

Are you in loss prevention? My other hobby is working with the U.S. Army's Counter-Insurgency program where we train our troops before they deploy to Iraq and Afghanistan. Here is a pic of one of our Insurgency crews. I'm the one with the ski mask on. And yes those are real AK47s. :grinyes:

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread. :uhoh:.......:lol:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC00331.jpg

No fricken way! Thats so cool! I've always wanted to go into the military, but I'd do something stupid and get myself killed..... Havn't even shot a gun for so long, the shooting range a few towns over recently got closed up because the owner was doing some illegal drug dealings and sold to the wrong person....

Yeah, I do LP.... I work 46-48 hours a week just to try and save up some cash. Doesnt seem to work though, the more I make, the more I spend on my GTP. HA HA Its a decent paying mid-life job. Best part is, they do tuition reimbursement for law enforcement or criminal justice, so I'm considering getting a 4yr criminal justice degree.

I like my job, just the look on their faces when I approach them on the sidewalk "excuse me, I'm with security, I need to have you come back inside to discuss that DVD in your right front pocket" Its classic. Some of the stories I could tell you, but I suppose you have a lot of your own.

No fricken way! Thats so cool! I've always wanted to go into the military, but I'd do something stupid and get myself killed..... Havn't even shot a gun for so long, the shooting range a few towns over recently got closed up because the owner was doing some illegal drug dealings and sold to the wrong person....

Yeah, I do LP.... I work 46-48 hours a week just to try and save up some cash. Doesnt seem to work though, the more I make, the more I spend on my GTP. HA HA Its a decent paying mid-life job. Best part is, they do tuition reimbursement for law enforcement or criminal justice, so I'm considering getting a 4yr criminal justice degree.

I like my job, just the look on their faces when I approach them on the sidewalk "excuse me, I'm with security, I need to have you come back inside to discuss that DVD in your right front pocket" Its classic. Some of the stories I could tell you, but I suppose you have a lot of your own.

I thought you'd find it interesting. It is all U.S. Government sanctioned. Good way to help our country out since we are at war and give back. Especially if the training helps save of the lives of our service members and the local nationals since we teach the rules of enagagement (ROE). Prerequisite is former military and training since we handle explosives and munitions and employ military tactics. Most of it is blank rounds or simulated pyro but you can still get hurt or killed. In addition to the other hobbies I still bracket race my GTP at the local dragstrip mainly during the summer months and race season. I've got old war stories going back to the Cold war and invasion of Kuwait and Gulf War I.

Your other job sounds interesting and smart building up funds for your GP. :thumbsup: