Do you belive in God?

Ok so the question is do you believe in God? I know this can be a touchy subject so anyone who adds something to this make it intellectual and as empirical of a point as you can. This is meant to be a discussion and for you to get something out of it you need to be open minded. Don't say someting like I believe in God cause I just do you. That's weak if you believe in so much make a good reason why someone in this thread should agree with you. So have fun with this one

Ignorant or apathetic? I don't know or I don't care. A little of each. Whatever, I have almost systematically rejected the Christian church.

I have no need for an invisible friend thankyou.:)

Originally posted by taranaki
I have no need for an invisible friend thankyou.:)

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=85558

:D:finger:

well i do. its a god explaintion of how we got here. the big bang theory is kinda schetchy...

Yes I believe in God.

**DISCLAIMER**I am not trying to preach, I am merely stating my view**DISCLAIMER**

I believe in Him for many reasons, but the easiest ones to explain would be: Take a look outside. I don't believe everything we have and everything we have created got here by accident. I refuse to believe that human consciousness and human emotions are here because of some "cosmic coincidence". I have personally had a few situations that has confirmed for me that God exists, just a sure fire moment where I've felt that I am definately not alone.

I find it depressing to think that there is no higher power watching over us. I find it EXTREMELY depressing to think that after we die we cease to exist and that's it, I believe that when we die we will be judged and we will either go to Heaven or to Hell. I try to live my life to the fullest and I try to be a good person, it gives me a goal to work towards. I also believe humans can't exist without believe in something. Even if you don't believe in God, that means you believe in nothing. Therefore you still believe. It's hard to explain but I hope you get my point.

If you look at the wind; you can't see the wind but you can see what the work it does. Same thing with God.

I have a lot of friends who are atheists or of other religions, I respect them, everyone can believe in what they want. I'll argue my point, if they listen, well then :)

my $0.02

Nope, No God for me.

Well, i take that back. No crappy religion to screw everything up. Maybe ther is a God, a real one out there somewhere.

I BELIEVE IN GOD....AS Toksin SAID....ALL THIS COULDN'T JUST HAPPEN BY COINCIDENCE....PUT A BOX OF FIRECRACKERS UNDER THE HOOD OF MY CAR...WATCH THE GO OFF.....WAIT A YEAR....PRESTO CHANGEO I'M THE PROUD OWNER OF A B18C5....DON'T THINK SO


BUT TO EACH IS OWN AND I CAN'T STAND PEOPLE WHO TRY AND TRY TO CONVINCE OTHERS......IT WILL COME IN TIME...AND IF THEY STILL DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY STILL DON'T BELIEVE :D

Originally posted by Toksin
Yes I believe in God.

**DISCLAIMER**I am not trying to preach, I am merely stating my view**DISCLAIMER**

I believe in Him for many reasons, but the easiest ones to explain would be: Take a look outside. I don't believe everything we have and everything we have created got here by accident. I refuse to believe that human consciousness and human emotions are here because of some "cosmic coincidence". I have personally had a few situations that has confirmed for me that God exists, just a sure fire moment where I've felt that I am definately not alone.

I find it depressing to think that there is no higher power watching over us. I find it EXTREMELY depressing to think that after we die we cease to exist and that's it, I believe that when we die we will be judged and we will either go to Heaven or to Hell. I try to live my life to the fullest and I try to be a good person, it gives me a goal to work towards. I also believe humans can't exist without believe in something. Even if you don't believe in God, that means you believe in nothing. Therefore you still believe. It's hard to explain but I hope you get my point.

If you look at the wind; you can't see the wind but you can see what the work it does. Same thing with God.

I have a lot of friends who are atheists or of other religions, I respect them, everyone can believe in what they want. I'll argue my point, if they listen, well then :)

my $0.02

I dont have to say what I think, Toksin did it for me:)

Yes I do...but I feel no need to explain myself. I just do.

god= the supernatural force that allows everything in the universe to exist in the manner that it does. ex. 2 hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom bond together to form a liquid that is vital for the survival of biological beings.

Originally posted by Damien
Yes I do...but I feel no need to explain myself. I just do. Same here:grey: . Not to sound like a chauvinist but I refuse to believe that the human body, particularly the female body and the effects it has on me when I see them, are just the results of a progression of "nature"; just my opinion:bandit:

Originally posted by thrasher
god= the supernatural force that allows everything in the universe to exist in the manner that it does. ex. 2 hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom bond together to form a liquid that is vital for the survival of biological beings.

what are you saying science is god. how can science be god if we dont all understand it? science is somehting we made up to give meaning to everyday life. ots nothing but nonsense.:devil:

No
why should I
he obviously hasn't done anything for me
and before someone says "He Created Life...blah blah blah"
i've heard it all
too funny for me to believe in an imaginary man that lives amongst the clouds just too childish
also really when you think about it
well Jesus was historically a real person but who really believes that Mary was a virgin probably something you could get a the corner for less than 25 cents

Originally posted by Amish_kid
No
why should I
he obviously hasn't done anything for me
and before someone says "He Created Life...blah blah blah"
i've heard it all
too funny for me to believe in an imaginary man that lives amongst the clouds just too childish
also really when you think about it
well Jesus was historically a real person but who really believes that Mary was a virgin probably something you could get a the corner for less than 25 cents

:lol:

A virgin...found here...on this planow of days!!!! ROFLMAO!!!

Sorry, felt the need for a sarcastic comment upon such an attack...I'll stop now since we are philosophizing and not flame thread.

Originally posted by Damien


:lol:

A virgin...found here...on this planow of days!!!! ROFLMAO!!!

Sorry, felt the need for a sarcastic comment upon such an attack...I'll stop now since we are philosophizing and not flame thread.

whoa that made about as much sense as a football bat
:bloated:

<------ not one for the bible and Godly speach

As a partial response to this thread, I myself believe that God exists. People who think otherwise will most likely ask me "how do you know?". and the truth is: I dont. simple as that. It's more a matter of believing than it is knowing. If you believe, anything is possible, and if God is not real, than I would still believe. As ignorant as that sounds, It will still instill in myself a feeling of hope. God gives those who would otherwise have nothing, something. Ive seen people so poor they can barely afford the clothing on them, but they believe God will provide for them and they are as happy as any rich man could ever be. People may ask "how do you know God is there?" Well, how do you know he Isnt? Granted there are many theories to the creation of the univers and man, but none of these are conclusive to the point that fact can be derived from them, this is why they are merely theories. In a way, organized religion comes down to a simple question, that being "do you believe in that which you cannot see with your naked eyes?" To which I respond, "yes, I do."

hondacivic4drlx quote:

what are you saying science is god. how can science be god if we dont all understand it? science is somehting we made up to give meaning to everyday life. ots nothing but nonsense.


no, i am not saying god is science, science has nothing to do with this. the mere fact that we actually exist, that there are inexplicable things in the world, like the example i gave, proves that there is a supernatural force acting in the universe. the fact that there is a noumenal and phenomenal world shows that outside influences are at work. and i was defining that supernatural force as god, or basicalyy everything that we can't comprehend or explain, things about which we simply have to say, "It just is that way."

No. I will elaborate later.

Hey everyone, I started this thread and sorry I haven't added more to it
yet but I have been real busy. So here is my first add to the thread.

To all of you who say you don't believe in god... There are so many things that seem like they are way more than mere coincidence. Are you sure that everything we are and will become is just a pure lucky fluke? And finally do you feel like there is no point to your life then it doesn't matter? and if you feel that, then why be moral or just or anything like that?

For those who do believe in God... A lot of you your answer has been science can not explain or fully explian everything or that science is just our answer to God's doing. Well could it not also be that God is your explanaition that you need to try to understand your world? Think of this famous quote "Religion is the crutch of the weak"

I want to thank everyone who has added to this thread cause none of you have turned this into a pointless stupid flamed filled thread

Originally posted by GTStang
... I want to thank everyone who has added to this thread cause none of you have turned this into a pointless stupid flamed filled thread

I want to second this. Fantastic!! Usually the religion threads don't last half this long before someone gets miffed.

In response to GTStang, my religious beliefs would best be defined as Secular Humanist. In short, I don't believe in God, I'm not sure about an afterlife/spirit world, I believe somewhat in fate, and I believe that everyone should be their best because it makes everything more pleasant for all of us, not because Big Brother is watching. In regards to the "fate" thing, I think that there's not a single superior being influencing things, but that some things like to fall into organized patterns. Kind of the "Chaos Theory" (http://www.duke.edu/~mjd/chaos/chaos.html) , things that look disorganised on a close level, when you back up they are all falling into patterns.

I'm going to quote myself from a previous thread. Please don't be offended, I don't mean this as an affront to anyone, it's simply my opinion. :)

Originally posted by boingo82

Unfortunately, I doubt this debate will ever do anything but offend most or all of the parties involved. I understand why Christians would be upset with mine and others' non-belief. If you believe that a superior power created all that exists, to have others deny Him credit would be understandably upsetting. What you don't seem to understand is that our denial of a superior power is not a deliberate affront to you or your belief system. We just disagree.

What it all comes down to for me is this: You know how if you look deep down inside yourself, you know without a doubt that there is a supreme being, and He created you and everything else, etc..?? Well, when I look deep down inside myself, I just KNOW that there is no God. And maybe we're both right. Maybe you have a God and I don't.

My biggest arguments against organized religion in general are these:
1. The amount of hypocrisy demonstrated by some religious followers. I've known too many people who were Sunday Christians, or Sunday Mormons, etc. They swear, steal, drink, speed, etc., but on Sunday go to church and claim to be good people.
2. That nearly every religion disagrees with every other religion. Not only do they disagree, but it seems most believe themselves to be the only "true" religion, and that followers of anything else are going to hell.
3. The idea that Satan is the root cause of evil. I don't go for this. Bad things happen, people are corruptible. A girl at my school once told a lengthy story about how she and her friends had been drinking and driving, and Satan tried to kill them by making the car run into a tree. That's not Satan. That's stupidity.
4. The fact that I've rarely been able to have an intelligent discussion with a religious person. They've usually gotten their feelings hurt and become severely defensive. In addition, the only arguments I've heard so far are the "look around you, all this couldn't have happened by chance" (I believe it could) and "The (Bible, Book of Mormon, Koran, etc.) says so, therefore it is." Unfortunately this has no more effect on me than it would on you if I said "look here, it's all in my big book 'o' aetheism, therefore it is".

I realize that most religions encourage recruiting. I understand that it's considered your duty as followers. However, I've had many, many, many missionaries at my door, I've read the Bible, I've gone to church, and I'm not convinced. It just doesn't add up for me. If I'm ever ready to convert, I'll call YOU.

No There is no supoerior being- There is little credibility to any religion

BUT


I went to a Catholic school of Marist order- and DO believe in the Christian morals and respectfulness to eachother

i do not believe in god. it just doesnt add up for me. i like to believe its all just one lucky fluke. kinda fun. religion is a hole other matter. i truly despise the things it has caused while i am behind the good that has come of it. i dont think i need to find source you should all know what i mean. some of the things that have been carried out in "the name of god" make me sick. i doubt that any religion has it right otherwise there would only be one religion if there was a god. maybe all the religions believe in the same god and just wont admit it. there is all kindsa stuf i wish i could quopte right now but i will strugle through it and i do not remember who said it.

"even if there is no god man would still create religion in his absense"

"it is beter ti believe in go and be wrong than to not believe and find out there was one"

so at the moment i do not believe but peoples views are always changing and maybe someday i will.

but maybe, as my freidn marco refers to me, im just another white boy on a power trip...

-GTi-VR6_A3

wow i wrote so much without asying anything

by the way i am in a religion class. i have read the bible. im in the middle of the koran. ive been to baptist and catholic services. read the dhammapada (SP?) and the bagahvad git (SP?). and observed many years of different perspectives and read way too much for the age i am. jsut to let you knwo where i get this from

-GTi-VR6_A3

Bahhhh nothing makes sense anymore
I was just reading up on Abiogenesis which was disproven
which is that life cannot be formed from nothing
also if there wasn't life to begin with it can't be made so how are we here
also when you think about it,it also rules out Evolution kinda
man i feel like killing myself to find out
I wanna know!

I have personally had a few situations that has confirmed for me that God exists, just a sure fire moment where I've felt that I am definately not alone.

Same things happen to me, my mother, and my grandmother. I agree with you 100% about how there is absolutely no possible way that everything we have got here through some science bullshit.

Originally posted by RyanGiorgio


Same things happen to me, my mother, and my grandmother. I agree with you 100% about how there is absolutely no possible way that everything we have got here through some science bullshit.

if i ever did believe in god which at the moment i dont. the bigbang theory is still pretty good. id still have to believe in that. and if you dont believe what a science book tells you why believe what any book tells you(aka the bible) what makes it so valid....

-GTi-VR6_A3

Originally posted by GTi-VR6_A3


if i ever did believe in god which at the moment i dont. the bigbang theory is still pretty good. id still have to believe in that. and if you dont believe what a science book tells you why believe what any book tells you(aka the bible) what makes it so valid....

-GTi-VR6_A3

Then why believe anything? I mean, if you don't believe the Bible, then why believe science books? They are just something written by man also. They're just theories like anything else other than the fact we do breathe. But what is it really? Man just gave it a name sometime ago and now we follow it. Just a thought to ponder...

I don't mean for that to sound argumentative, it really is just something to think about. I can understand why people don't believe in God and all that because in reality, it is all speculation. But then again...so is science.

Do I believe in:

God? Yes

Organized Religion? No

ill have to agree (partially) with saturntangerine. I'm a christian and it seems today that organized religion is a big farce. Churches are filled with liars, cheats, hypocrites, etc and it is an enormous hurdle for anyone to get past, not only for those within the church but for those looking from the outside. I can completely understand why someone who has never been involved with God or the church would not want to come in to that type of atmosphere or belief. Then a topic like this comes up and IF they stand for their beliefs they can't tell really tell you why and it goes on and on from there.

Im certainly not trying to toot my horn here and say im the perfect one, because God knows im not. Ive gotten drunk, high, talked my fair share of crap, (fill in other obnoxious behavior here) more times than i care to count. But at the end of the day, the He helps me get thru and move on to the next one and I am as thankful as ever. If you ask how i know that God is real? Im like everyone else; i just do. You get out exactly what you put in to something. and if im wrong what do i have to lose? nothing that i can see.

*steps down off soapbox, puts on flame retardant suit*

Yes I believe in God.

Originally posted by Damien


Then why believe anything? I mean, if you don't believe the Bible, then why believe science books? They are just something written by man also. They're just theories like anything else other than the fact we do breathe. But what is it really? Man just gave it a name sometime ago and now we follow it. Just a thought to ponder...

I don't mean for that to sound argumentative, it really is just something to think about. I can understand why people don't believe in God and all that because in reality, it is all speculation. But then again...so is science.

i believe valid science books beacause i knwo who wrote them and the information in the real world is there to back it up. the same can be made for the bible to some peo0ple just not me.

-GTi-VR6_A3

Originally posted by Rod Himself
ill have to agree (partially) with saturntangerine. I'm a christian and it seems today that organized religion is a big farce. Churches are filled with liars, cheats, hypocrites, etc and it is an enormous hurdle for anyone to get past, not only for those within the church but for those looking from the outside.

you act as though it hasnt always been like this. no offense to the church but its not like they just started doing this stuff.

-GTi-VR6_A3

Originally posted by GTi-VR6_A3


you act as though it hasnt always been like this. no offense to the church but its not like they just started doing this stuff.

-GTi-VR6_A3

I never implied that. I used the word "today" because that is my perspective and it is what I see going on around me. I know all about things such as the salem witch trials, spanish inquisition, etc that went on in the past and their supposed premise of Godliness, and that it was all wrong. My intent was only to state that, as a Christian, I can see where most of the arguments against a belief in God come from. I have been there just like everyone else.

Originally posted by Rod Himself


I never implied that. I used the word "today" because that is my perspective and it is what I see going on around me. I know all about things such as the salem witch trials, spanish inquisition, etc that went on in the past and their supposed premise of Godliness, and that it was all wrong. My intent was only to state that, as a Christian, I can see where most of the arguments against a belief in God come from. I have been there just like everyone else.

werd. but it goes back even farther than that. basically from the start of christianity. and then judaism. and then before that every relgion b4 those. i dunno jussumthin about that irks me. i will never support organized religion.

-GTi-VR6_A3

Originally posted by GTi-VR6_A3


werd. but it goes back even farther than that. basically from the start of christianity. and then judaism. and then before that every relgion b4 those. i dunno jussumthin about that irks me. i will never support organized religion.

-GTi-VR6_A3

I'll go with you on that. Organized religion is like communism...it'll work, if no one has the ability to think for themselves. Bad comparison, but it's true. So many people though have their own views and like anything else, messes up the true beginning.

Yes, I do believe.
not in god but in the gods

I was born and raised a catholic forced to go to church week after week year after year until i was 18. I stopped being religous and turned to science for answers, (by the way an english scientist in the 1800's created life in a laboratory by recreating the elements that would have been present during the creation of the earth, little white arachnid looking things.) Well not so much science as logic. So after a while I got interested in eastern philosophy, meditation, auras, energies, astral travel, etc. and came to a realization...
monotheistic religions are a realitively new idea in the grand scheme of things. Before them everyone was pagan... everyone. the asians the native americans the greeks the tribes in africa everybody, and you know what, despite being spread all over the world during times when they had absolutely no means to share ideas with other cultures they all had the same gods. Theses peoples had different names for them but the gods were the exact same from one culture to the next.

But then i also have one up on the other believers where you know your god by the feelings it gives you I have actualy been able to meet some of mine

by the way someone brought up the name satan in one of the earlier posts ummm as far as eveil entities go out there in the great beyond satan is very very low on the totem pole

Originally posted by grimmy

by the way someone brought up the name satan in one of the earlier posts ummm as far as eveil entities go out there in the great beyond satan is very very low on the totem pole

WERD!!! politicians hahahahaha jk

but i really like your sig. its so very true. there is no threat that could stop that. a philosopher named diogenes proved that point very well. if you have ever heard the story of him and alexander the great...

-GTi-VR6_A3

lol GTi...
damned politicians, and those other guys who are running the world from the shadows.
so let me throw another thought out there,

Science, Organized Religion, Government

All of these are the same thing, just different gods

No I do not.

by the way an english scientist in the 1800's created life in a laboratory by recreating the elements that would have been present during the creation of the earth, little white arachnid looking things
Could we have some proof? Prove that happened. Prove that those ARE the elements that would have been present during the creation of the earth. How absurd. That statement makes the Bible look like 2+2=4. While I'm at it, I do believe in God. I serve Yahweh and His son Yeshua, the saviour of man.

Originally posted by grimmy
lol GTi...
damned politicians, and those other guys who are running the world from the shadows.
so let me throw another thought out there,

Science, Organized Religion, Government

All of these are the same thing, just different gods

interesting analogy there. i would agree on some points but id like to believe sciens is a bit more proven but hye if your religious you probably have all of the proof you need

Originally posted by whttrshpunk

Could we have some proof? Prove that happened. Prove that those ARE the elements that would have been present during the creation of the earth. How absurd. That statement makes the Bible look like 2+2=4. While I'm at it, I do believe in God. I serve Yahweh and His son Yeshua, the saviour of man.

yeah. while i like the idea of science i have never heard of that one...:rolleyes: any site or book we can read that has acredited sources for that little experiment.

Yahweh and Yeshua? please refrech my brain

-GTi-VR6_A3

(by the way an english scientist in the 1800's created life in a laboratory by recreating the elements that would have been present during the creation of the earth, little white arachnid looking things.)

Let me be one to say
BULLSHIT

This has been a public service announcement.

Originally posted by GTi-VR6_A3


interesting analogy there. i would agree on some points but id like to believe sciens is a bit more proven but hye if your religious you probably have all of the proof you need

Just to point out, that was what I was gettin' to in my latest post. Anyhow...not to go into a major ordeal. I mentioned before I don't care what you belive, but I'm curious as to why. SCience is no more proven than anything hardly. What we have is a thought, given a name, passed down as that, and is now accepted. Obviously scientists are finding new stuff everyday and even stuff that disproves what they once thought to be a "duh" fact. I'm with Grimmy on his latest post.Even though I do believe in God and whole heartedly in my religion, I don't think the Bible is anymore proven than science is. The governement is also somethng created by us...we're not perfect. So why believe anything? It was man that started it. It's just, in my opinion, to say something is right or you believe in something because it's more proven than another. In the end, all beliefs come down to faith. You just believe, well, because you do.

Oh, and grimmy, I just want to say that most peoples in the past had the same gods for the samethings because well, they all had the samethings and needed a reason to explain them. Not saying you're wrong, but that's how I see it. I'm also I deep philosopher...that's why I'm somewhat "exiled".

Originally posted by Damien

I'm also I deep philosopher...that's why I'm somewhat "exiled".

all the good ones are...:D i woudl think of myself as one too and id liek to reply to you but my mind is not all there so it will be saved for another day and time.

-GTi-VR6_A3

OK the information I wrote on the scientist creating life was from a book I read 4, 5 years ago. i do not own the book so i did some searching and found it on th net. it is called strange but tru by thomas salem.
in the book it tells of the scientist puting this experiment together getting results and submitting it to some british science organization who basicly laughed him out of the building. a couple of the scientists however in the organization then took it upon themselves to see if these results could be recreated and were successful at their attempts. so when i get time i will go purchase this book find the name of the scientist, the organization, and the name they gave to the little critters and do my own research on the matter.

Originally posted by grimmy
OK the information I wrote on the scientist creating life was from a book I read 4, 5 years ago. i do not own the book so i did some searching and found it on th net. it is called strange but tru by thomas salem.
in the book it tells of the scientist puting this experiment together getting results and submitting it to some british science organization who basicly laughed him out of the building. a couple of the scientists however in the organization then took it upon themselves to see if these results could be recreated and were successful at their attempts. so when i get time i will go purchase this book find the name of the scientist, the organization, and the name they gave to the little critters and do my own research on the matter.

after that id like to see their experiment and the steps they took so i can do it myself. any true scientific experiment to be true must be recreatable

-GTi-VR6_A3

Originally posted by GTi-VR6_A3


after that id like to see their experiment and the steps they took so i can do it myself. any true scientific experiment to be true must be recreatable

-GTi-VR6_A3

Well, you gotta be able to acquire the materials first. But yeah! It be cool to try it if you could.

GTi if i recall corectly all of the materials were listed in the book, if not well they were all basic elements you could probably look it up on the net somewhere the trick that made it work though was a continuous electrical current running through it to represent the llightning that was present at the time


Damien I take no ofense at all towards your last comment to me that is a very valid point. you could tell me im a dumbass and i wouldn't be offended as long as i thought you had an intelegent reason for doing so, the only thing that really really anoys me is ignorance

Originally posted by grimmy
the only thing that really really anoys me is ignorance

the worst of all traits is ignorance without the wish to destroy it.

-GTi-VR6_A3

Okay, on this scientist thing.

According to evolution,it would take millions of years for life to go from bacteria to even little arachnid things.

(I don't believe in evolution.)

I even less believe that someone two hundred years ago with random elements and some electricity could create new life from scratch,at such an advanced stage as "little arachnid things".

Why aren't we these days making all sorts of new life with our technology?
Because it's impossible.

no

Originally posted by THE4TH
no

simplest answer i have seen yet:D and very well worded

-GTi-VR6_A3

yes, very verbose that one is

thanx guys.. i just see no reason to argue over who and why i think what.. i simply don't believe.. no need to start an argument which this subject always will.. lol.. always..
but thanx for the read.. lol

I would like to believe, because I also (I say also because at least one person has already said it) think that conciousness is something that cannot be made of mere chemicals (although people with down syndrome, and other brain disorders may have a different conciousness to the more normal person, hence why they are the way they are, and brain disorders are caused by chemical or physical discrepancies).

yes. and i dont think that you can convince some one that god does eixist. god is something that you have to experince for yourself.
This coming from a ex firm disbealiver in god. Glad i changed my ways.

Originally posted by 64 Chevy
yes. and i dont think that you can convince some one that god does eixist. god is something that you have to experince for yourself.
This coming from a ex firm disbealiver in god. Glad i changed my ways.

I know! I'm trying to explain on behalf of other people having their own beliefs to Christains because they can't seem to believe as to why believe in anything but our religion. BUt seriously, someone that has no concept to what you believe or anyone else does, yuo can't explain it. it's just something that is and you'll find on your own or grow into from other imfluences such as family or friends.

I don't neccesarily believe in God. I believe that everything that is, as to be more than accident. But it doesn't have to be God but there is a power above our understanding. My problem with the word God is all the ways it has been tainted by organized religion. Think of all the horrible things that have been done in the history of man through organized religion in the name of God. So I ill probably never use the word God because I don't ever what to associate myself with any of the organized religions cause I think they all keep you blind from finding what you truly feel is the truth.