Good base cars

Hi,

I was wondering if there was a limit to how fast you can make a certain cars go, like civics, 240sx, camaro, etc. I know you can swap out engines galore, but what is the limit to what engines you can put in? At what point is it better to just by a whole new car? If you start off with a faster car, the fastest it's able to go is faster than if you started off with a slower car?

If there is a limit, what's a good base car to start with, I looked at the recommended car thread, but most of the beginner cars seemed really... mediocre, were those recomendations just on what you should learn to race? Or what has potential to do something big with?

If there is no limit then... good for us?

The "limit" is your budget. If you don't limit your car choices to 4 and 6 cylinder models (Jap), you can go as fast as anyone ever has. On their best days, 4 or 6 do NOT "equal" 8. While there are plenty of pocket-rockets out there, they all have turbochargers or superchargers. For a fair comparison, you must use a supercharged or turbocharged V8. Once you put a power "adder" on a large V8, it is out of reach for anything less.

That being said, for a dedicated race car (one that NEVER dirves on the street), the best values today are among the GM "G-bodies". Those are the '78-'87 Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, Regal, Cutlass, Malibu, LeMans, and if you're REAL lucky, GrandAm (VERY rare).

These cars accept small block Chevy, big block Chevy and Pontiac V8s with ease (Olds too, but they aren't as good a choice). These are the three GM engine families of choice for a racer. The BBC is the most powerful and most expensive of the three. SBC is the most versatile and least expensive ("cheaper" is misleading, as there's nothing CHEAP about racing). The Pontiac is right between the two Chevys for power and cost. Plenty of good performance stuff out there today, unlike 10 years ago. If you like "big" torque at moderate RPMs, the Pontiac is the better choice.

The "Fox Body" Mustangs ('83-'91 or 2) are also VERY popular. The little Ford engines can be made to make enough power to have fun. The medium sized Fords are VERY good performers (351-400 CID range, small block). The BIG Fords are animals. The Fox body has a very good rear suspension for drag racing. It has become fashionable locally, to put small block Chevys in them. There are some rediculously fast ones with 422 or 434 CID small blocks. We have one guy with a 514 CID Lima (460-based) that is a MONSTER.

Another choice would be to watch sites like racejunk.com for good deals on cars already built, usually needing engines or other major drivetrain pieces. One can save a bunch by buying a car already built. Just make sure to take a person familiar with racers and racecars with you when you look at it. "Let the buyer beware".

Most important? Remember this is a HOBBY. Have fun and don't take yourself too seriously as a racer. If you're good, it will come out.

Jim

that's all fun and good, but once you hit a certain point those sbc and ford apps are no longer fun to drive, but so much of a chore that you don't want to. Im a big advocate of the sbc and newer lsx series of engines having seen a friend throw a 5.3l silverado engine in a gbody and it is a BEAUTIFUL thing The biggest things are:

What will you use it for??
when you are in a parking lot, where do your eyes go first??
what are your targets as far as kills go??

I personally chose the galant vr4. Plenty of aftermarket, though most body panels are harder to find. Its all-wheel drive which is great for the streets where slicks aren't always practical and awd is always practical rain and snow. 4cylinders which, in more modest applications, can be matched to most v8's on the street. A procharged v8 corvette running 8lbs or so should run low 11s maybe better depending on the extensiveness of the modifications. I'm now aiming for 10s with 30lbs of boost. Maybe less if it is more practical. My target car was the corvette which I think I could beat and especially from a dig where I have 2 extra wheels and boost off the line. Granted the setup isn't 100% practical for driving everyday, but that's why after a certain point you grab a beater car.
If you like ass-happy fun, you'd be more inclined to grab something rear drive, if you aren't as keen on physics and want to power your way through, a Honda might suit you. A guy with a 1.5 hatch here runs 10s and though he won't get you off the line he will catch you when he gains some momentum. Or a guy here that runs 10s off a eclipse gsx awd turbo with a setup that could make a grown man cry. Or the ford lightning with more power than reasonable on the street. S10 pickups, 240sx, dsm's, mustangs of all ages, gl vehicles in most sizes, cavaliers, saturns that could all run 13s or better.

Pick a body style, pick a target, see if is feasible, if not start over.

I might also mention a picked the gvr4 because it is almost always underestimated and cosmetically, one running 10s sounds the same as one running 12s or 13s to the untrained ear.

The "limit" is your budget.

This is the only part of this post you should pay attention to. The rest of it is your standard no replacement for displacement pandering while ignoring the fact that at the last Texas mile, a streetable six banger Supra went 220, 230 something. And you might wanna check out that AMS built Evo that was eating up a Procharged Corvette. And a local tuner is looking to be putting out well over a thousand horsepower with zero pistons. It has nothing to do with I4/F4 vs I6/V6/F6 vs V8 vs V10 vs V12. It is personal preference.

So, now that we have that out of the way...

The reasons that the "first car" thread seem mediocre is because if its your first car, you have no fucking clue what you are doing. You can argue that you've been driving on "relative xyz's" farm till your blue in the face, it doesn't matter. You will get into an accident, shit will break, and you will be in highschool and it will be miserable to fix. Been there done that got the teeshirt.

They all suck as base cars so that you can have a general idea on how to drive without killing yourself and slowly build into power.

Get whatever you set your mind on. My first car was a '92 diamante, a nice luxy car and it was great for a first car. After that I stepped it up and got a '94 celica and then replaced that with my '02 jetta 1.8t. i've done a few mods but nothing major. I wanted to completely deck it out but then i realized, why? it's already quick enough to pass 80% of the cars that i will run into on a daily basis. And besides the more you mod a car the more attention you need to give in to keep it running.

Fellas,

Relax. Your mega-buck (make sure you explain just how much MONEY it takes to get a 6 to run like you describe) Jap cars run fine. The category here is RACING, not STREETING... And save your "They aren't THAT expensive" argument. I build engines (including Mitsis and Toys) for a living. They ARE that expensive.

Every time someone asks about an entry-level race car, I recommend what is easiest and least expensive for a learning tool. Invariably, someone calls me out on this stuff. I go to the track about 20 times a year, between customers, shows and own-stuff "fun". The ricers are outnumbered 20 to 1 and seldom win ANYTHING. That's why they keep to themselves and have their own sanctioning body, which, BTW, bans all American made 8 cylinder engines, and some of the better running 4s and 6s. See, we don't race magazines, we race CARS. Not unlike the Patriots against the Giants, you must actually run the race! And understand, if built to the same level as that 230 MPH Supra, a V8-powered Camaro will go near 300 (TA/FC). Yes, I've seen the NOPI stuff and their high 6 second times. I've also seen the NHRA "Sport Compact" FWD 4-cylinder American cars go deeper into the 6s.

And you're right. There IS no replacement for displacement. For the same money one can build a monster Toyota 6 (7-800 HP range) that may complete 20 passes down the 1/4 mile before it burns or breaks something, one can build a BBC that makes the same power, for YEARS. Turbos and nitrous wreak havoc on the longevity of an engine. That 1,000 HP Toyota you speak of costs more to build than a Brad Anderson Hemi... A BA Hemi makes about 8,000...

This was not intended as a "mine is better than yours". It is to help educate a newbie without clouding his mind with a bunch of pie-in-the-sky. Of course, if he DOES have an extra 30 or 50K lying around, he could jump in at the highest level... Gimme a break and stop rationalizing your own choices.

Jim

seeing as how he was looking at 240s civics and camaros, I really doubt he'll ever do anything further than 13s, which realistically can be done with any car on the road without a whole lot of effort.

That's why I encouraged him to pick a car he likes
then see if what he wants out if it is feasible

The legitimate drag racing scenario is completely different than hobbyists with tuners and domestics. Since he was talking about lower end street cars, I think it is safe to assume he is using those cars on the street. And while you are speaking so highly of the times a BBC or other domestic produces, you miss the fact that he may want to drive this thing to work. Iirc a carb'd BBC doesn't get anywhere near a modest mpg. And while there is no replacement for displacement, people will try and succeed with other options available.

I might also point out that if you wanted to make things "fair" we'd be living in a communist society and your arguments would no longer be valid. Its all up to what the individual wants to do and everyone likes or wants something a little different than the next. The individual can then compare and make up his own mind on what he wants to run whether it be a geo metro or your 8,000 hp monster

The "pie in the sky" scenario does apply here and I think its important to not limit this person to the closedminded domestic elitest bullcrap that every redneck in America swears by. And I'm not saying my stuff is greater or anything, but my niche is different and someone has to love the "fat chick" of the automotive world. Its not the fastest, no. But it could scare a BBC guy into putting real effort into his 454 he thought was "fast" running 12's. And that is all I really want to do.

And for the record I might mention I won't have more than 4,000 in the car including original purchase when I have it going for the summer.

Might also mention that people that say "if you turbo'd or supercharged the v8 it'd win" when the fact is they didn't and we out in the real world call that a ricer excuse

Fellas,

Relax. Your mega-buck (make sure you explain just how much MONEY it takes to get a 6 to run like you describe) Jap cars run fine. The category here is RACING, not STREETING... And save your "They aren't THAT expensive" argument. I build engines (including Mitsis and Toys) for a living. They ARE that expensive.

If money is an issue, then you are in the wrooooong hobby. End of story.

Every time someone asks about an entry-level race car, I recommend what is easiest and least expensive for a learning tool. Invariably, someone calls me out on this stuff. I go to the track about 20 times a year, between customers, shows and own-stuff "fun". The ricers are outnumbered 20 to 1 and seldom win ANYTHING.

You've obviously never been to the track in an import. Basically, what happens is, we show up, and we get booed and told to go home because we don't need 15Liters to go fast. Then we run a fast time, and we are told we cheat or got lucky or whatever. So ya, we tend not to show up because of the hasle that inbred rednecks dish out is just not worth it at times.

That's why they keep to themselves and have their own sanctioning body, which, BTW, bans all American made 8 cylinder engines, and some of the better running 4s and 6s.
Then it wouldn't be an IMPORT leauge if they had American cars, would it? Logic>j00

See, we don't race magazines, we race CARS. Not unlike the Patriots against the Giants, you must actually run the race!
And I do run the race, and I do win.

And understand, if built to the same level as that 230 MPH Supra, a V8-powered Camaro will go near 300 (TA/FC).
I have never seen a Camaro run 300mph. Ever. Especially not in the same class (street class) that the aformentioned Thommy Bahn Supra was running. Your telling me that a Camaro witha 3.4L I6 and big turbo will run 230mph from a standstill in under a mile. You are an idiot. The only cars that were running with him were Twin Turboed V10 Vipers. The cars running faster were in a purpose built class.

Yes, I've seen the NOPI stuff and their high 6 second times. I've also seen the NHRA "Sport Compact" FWD 4-cylinder American cars go deeper into the 6s.
Good for them.

And you're right. There IS no replacement for displacement. For the same money one can build a monster Toyota 6 (7-800 HP range)
What kind of engine builder are you? You can get about 700 crank on a Poopra on the stock internals with new fuel system. A monster Supra will have more than 1k at the wheels.

that may complete 20 passes down the 1/4 mile before it burns or breaks something, one can build a BBC that makes the same power, for YEARS. Turbos and nitrous wreak havoc on the longevity of an engine.
Might wanna call Woon or Kean or the guys at Titan and let them know that...

That 1,000 HP Toyota you speak of costs more to build than a Brad Anderson Hemi... A BA Hemi makes about 8,000...

How much does one cost? From Boostlogic, their top of the line 3.4L Stroker 2JZ, fully built turnkey, capable of 1500+ ponies, is 13k. Oh, and as a hopeful future Supra owner, I take great pride that you have to use a fully built top fule race motor to shoot down a 3.4L Streetable six cylinder.

This was not intended as a "mine is better than yours". It is to help educate a newbie without clouding his mind with a bunch of pie-in-the-sky. Of course, if he DOES have an extra 30 or 50K lying around

Pie in the sky? Are you fucking kidding me? Do you have any clue on how cheap it is to make an import fast? Just as cheap as any domestic. Listen, your the person that screws it up and clouds minds. There is just as much room in my dream garage for a 77 Trans Am as there is for a 98 Supra Turbo as there is for a TT C6 Z06 as there is for a three rotor race ported FD with a big turbo as there is for a Murcielago as there is for a 997 Turbo. All cars can, and will, be fast with the right touch. I'm telling the OP that if he wants to kick ass and take names, he can do it just as well at the same cost as your beloved Big Blocks.

Gimme a break and stop rationalizing your own choices.

No. You stop rationalizing yours. Mine was perfectly rationalized when I lined up against a Mustang GT, with a full fucking TWICE the displacement of my motor, RWD, designed for drag racing, and I whuped his ass with just an intake.

Jim

Rob

Funny story. For some reason I forgot drag was a STYLE of racing and not the culmination of all of racing. Who is this guy to be talking anyways?? I've seen dumb rednecks build small blocks and big big blocks. Iirc imports take talent to build because the have tighter specs. I'm thinking you need to send those import guys to a real builder. That is since you can't get an engine to hold together.

Cassie. That right there is what I've been waiting for.

And cassie, the 67 camaro is hotter than the 77

cassie. That right there is what I've been waiting for.
There is an understated elegance in my anger and it tends to manifest itself in these posts, lol.

Or, you could say, my Kung Fu was stronger than his. Either way. I do appriciate the use of my fat chick analogy with your own DSM, though.

And cassie. The 67 camaro was way hotter than the 77.

I've always sorta been a second gen guy. But you'll note that it was a 77 Trans Am...black...T-tops...flaming chicken on the hood.

Uhh iirc it went like this

you said that owning a dsms was like being a fat chick and having sex. Mostly because you never know if they will run again.

I said evo and galants are like having sex with fat chicks cuz you can't tell if they will put out and you may get the ride of you life. Btw edited last post

I may still have gotten the analagy from you, but I can't remember.

Uhh iirc it went like this

you said that owning a dsms was like being a fat chick and having sex. Mostly because you never know if they will run again.

I said evo and galants are like having sex with fat chicks cuz you can't tell if they will put out and you may get the ride of you life. Btw edited last post

I may still have gotten the analagy from you, but I can't remember.

Indeed sir, you are correct. My DSM fat chick comaparo was a spin off of yours. And nice edit.

So... From what I understand, the limiting factor is the engine, and what you can throw on it (turbos, super chargers, etc). And what limits the engine is the body, right?
So after you max out a car, you'd either have to replace the engine or get a new car to be faster?

yeah pretty much. Unless you are awesome at fabricating and engineering you are limited as far as drivetrain and what fits.

What are you using the car for anyway??

Might mention that you can rarely "max out" a car

I dont see why the hell we are talking about BBC's and Supra's making 1500 hp. This is most probably his first car, get a 240 or 5.0 stang or whatever else you like import or domestic, mod it as much as you want, can afford, and your skill allows you to drive and call it a day. Then down the road when you have surpassed your previous abilities, get something better.

End of story.

Cheap, Fast, Reliable.
Pick two.

Probably going to be a daily driver, street races time to time hopefully...

Thanks for the advice guys!

then you probably want cheap and reliable something fast maybe later but learn on something more forgiving and yes slow my car is slow (NA diesel) but it is a blast(torque ftw)

But has potential, yeah?

Of making black smoke and your clothes stink of diesel fuel... yep. Sure does!


Heheh.

potential watch this
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYlTG326IY0 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYlTG326IY0)

Pretty cool!

But one thing... all that money and effort in boosting up those diesels and they don't throw in a decent limited-slip? What's with the peg leg burnouts and half hearted donuts? :(

'87 Supra, 9.40 @ 141 MPH, 1998. I built it. It's a "street" car. Fredrick, MD

'93 VR-4, 3.4Lr, 8.90s, 1999. I built it. "street car" Baltimore, MD

'76 Toyota Hi-Lux, 20R engine, 13.20 @ 101, 1987. I built it. Tucson, AZ

NHRA record holder, 1996, 2.6 Mitsi "Conquest", Q/SA, I built it. He moved West

Mitsi 2.4Lr. (destroked G54B), 14 poles, Track Champ, 1997, NASCAR "Mini-Stock" I built it. Richmond, VA

Saturn 1.9Lr, NA, 2,500 lb. car, 14.20 @ 99, 2005. I built it. Richmond, VA

Our policy is "We don't care what color you paint it, we'll build it!"

It's funny that you pick out certain portions of my posts and ignore the rest. If you're a racer, the "TA/FC" should mean something to you. Yes, a Camaro body going nearly 300 MPH. Not unlike your Toyota example, blown/alcohol.

A good friend here in the Richmond area has been creditied with the quickest Honda 2.2 "NA, FWD" in the world. Whether or not it's true, I can't say. The car has been 8.80s. There are ZERO Japanese-made parts in the engine. Dart block, Dart head, Moldex crank, Crower rods and cams, Ross pistons, fabricated (in Richmond) intake and exhaust, etc. The cost is staggering. In excess of $15K to build it, and about $6K to "freshen" it. They tried to make 500 HP with the stock block, but it blew the bores right out of it (top of cylinders walking everywhere).

All of those cars you site are great. This is ALL "street racing", not "racing". Perhaps it would have been better posted in the "Street Racing" forum instead.

But give the redneck crap a rest. You know NOTHING about me, except I don't follow trends or styles. The rednecks around here HATE me (that's GOOD thing). I'm a California kid with massive experience in all kinds of American-style racing (drags, circle, RR, and street). I am not "anti-import", I'm just more realistic. I understand the laws of physics as they relate to engines, and KNOW what is real and what is hype. I defy you to find ONE 3,800 lb. ricer without power adders going 11.20s IN STREET TRIM, and driven regularly on 93 octane. I have no less than 20 customers doing it with Pontiacs. Wanna talk about the Chevys?

Who you ARE talking to, is a man that has been going "against the grain" for most of his life. When everyone says "Chevrolet", I say "Pontiac". When they say it can't be done", I say "Why not?" We built a 12 second 6-cylinder Nova in 1973, and it was a daily driver for a couple years. At the time, we got the same "Why?" you get when you spend so much money on a Datsun...

To add another cliche, "The only thing that beats cubic inches is cubic money. When cubic money is applied to cubic inches, end of game".

So, if you are as open-minded as you claim I'm not, you will see from the list of cars I've provided engines for, I am fully qualified to say what I say. How many V8 cars have you built?

PAX

Jim

Ah....both of you shut up already (Pbody and Cassies). You two can whine and bitch about what you know, but to be honest, the OP has the decision to make. Just present him with cars that are good for starters.

I used to drive an 85 Trans Am with a 5.2 V8. Switched after a few years to a 95 Civic, then bought myself an Eclipse GS-T. For one, the imports were a hell of a lot easier to work on. I'll just say for example, changing the spark plugs on my TA was far more difficult than the Civic or the Eclipse, but I will admit that a 3000GT SL was more of a hassle than the TA. You gotta look at the fact that this guy may be a begginer and he needs something to understand and work on.

Something basic. Don't expect him to just jump into this game knowing everything. Or just reading what you guys post and suddenly become an expert with all the knowledge right in his back pocket. He's a "noob", so help the guy out with something useful other than your "my dick is bigger than yours" arguments.

To the OP, find yourself a solid car. Something really cheap, and something you would feel comfortable learning about. The Civic is something that is a choice for a lot of young learners. I chose it, and it helped me out greatly. You also should consider the fact that if something breaks on your next to be vehicle, how much are you willing to spend on fixing it, or can you afford to fix it?

The main point is, how much money to you have to spend, and also, how much time do you have to spend on your next vehicle? Keep that in mind when you look for your next vehicle. That's really all you need to know. And also, print up the thread with the base vehicles and bring it about with you. Just go out there and test drive whatever you can too before you buy. Also, bring a friend who is knowledgeable. That's another plus as well.

It's funny that you pick out certain portions of my posts and ignore the rest. If you're a racer, the "TA/FC" should mean something to you. Yes, a Camaro body going nearly 300 MPH. Not unlike your Toyota example, blown/alcohol.

Dude, you don't get it, do you?

This is Tommy Bahn's Supra. It can and has been daily driven. It can and has been on the street. It is a Toyota Supra with a modified motor and suspension. It holds the record for fastest standing mile street car. It is a fully street legal 1998 Toyota Supra with a 3.4L Stroker and a GT4718. It was clocked at 228.7mph The next fastest car in that same class was a Twin Turbo Viper that ran 223 (8.0L Twin Turboed V10. No replacement for displacement=fail). Get on YouTube and looks some of these cars up. There are videos of them putteirng around on the street just fine, going on food runs (Titan), etc.:

http://www.maxpower.co.uk/images/tommy3.jpg

This is a TA/FC Camaro that'll go 300mph:

http://www.draglist.com/artman/uploads/daily_pictures/steven_densham_chutesout__vegas_test_photo_by_jame sdrew_2004.jpg

Notice any differences?

Now then, back on topic before mister "If'n it ain't a big block, its a POS" brings more arguments in here about imports not being able to go fast with a zillion dollars worth of work...[/hijack]

Listen, your budget is the only restriction. Beyond that, it is personal preference. The only reason I recomend starting out on something like Civic or a 240SX or a 5.Slow Mustang or such is the graduated power. You take someone who has no clue what they are doing, or just flat out not used to it, and drop them in some fast ass car, they are going to become a blip in the time line. Fast for about a week before that painfull lesson of physics that two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time becomes more than just a lesson.

Starting with something like the Civic or the 240SX or the Stang or whatever gives you a chance to ease into the power. Then you can start building on it. Once you get used to driving it, you can start building into the power slowly until it is where you want to be.

Sleeper is right, there is no such thing as maxing out a car. As soon as you reach the physical limits of the motor you have, you can just swap to a new one (in most cases). Or you can rebuild it for different set ups, etc. Based on what you've said your looking for, but without mention of budget, I'd think a cheap front driver or maybe a rear driver would be the way to go. Seriously, start with something slow or else Darwin will be right again.

I'd really look into the Civic for a front driver or the 240 for a rear driver.

Civracer,

I did exactly what you suggested (recommended a reasonable and inexpensive way to get into racing), and got called names for it. I can't help it if I say what's right instead of what's "popular".

Cassiesman,

If you're happy with your car, GREAT! But don't blow sunshine around like the imports are the ONLY way to go. Promoting V8s is hardly a "redneck" thing. Comparing a top-end car to a drag car is pretty lame, I admit. I didn't realize that was your example. My point was to illustrate the amount of power available from a given engine design. A car going 230 MPH in a flying mile is not quite the same as a car going from zero to 300 in 5.5 seconds. And that's a Corvette body in the FC pic... Peter Ripley's '93 ZR-1 went 238 at the flying mile track in NC in 1998, and it goes 10.80s in the 1/4 mile to boot! Purely street.

I don't get my information from a computer. I get it at the track. I don't think I've ever even logged on to "youtube". Growing up in L.A. in the '60s, we learned early, TV lies. Does that mean I don't believe it? No. It means I take it all with a grain of salt. Rather than "dis" me because of your own preconceived ideas about people, you might wanna listen a bit, and learn some things.

Read my list of small engines again. I've been building imports since before a lot of you were out of short pants. I have no personal issue with them (or you). I also KNOW, the output of any engine is governed by the laws of physics. Why are the EcoTech GM engines banned in NOPI? Why is the 2.5 Pontiac banned in NOPI? Why are the GM twin cam 60 degree V6s banned in NOPI? Because they make more power at the same level of tune as the imports of similar displacement. Only the Saturn, Neon and Focus engines were "legal" last time I checked. I think it would be cool if someone would turbo a twin cam 3.4 GM in a Fiero... We're working on a NA version right now, but funds for a 'charged engine aren't available. Looking at 400-420 HP with a 390 CFM carb, revving to 7,500. Should be lots of fun. Even found a 4-speed car to put it in (4-speeds have more desirable gearing for drags than the 5-speeds in Fieros). As an official "old fart", underhood electronics are not my forte, thus the carb. EFI would be more efficient, but wouldn't make any more usable power. Since it's more of a racer than a streeter, MPG is of little or no concern. The distributor from a 1980 Citation with the 2.8 suffices for ignition.

On that note, I'll leave this alone. BTW, Kevin, my co-worker, has a '90 240SX for sale. Nice enough little car, runs well, looks good. Anyone interested?

Jim

I dont' get how you think we live our lives by "NOPI" like it is the God of all imports, because if it is, then i'm an atheist. Who cares about ecotech? it's just chevy's version of vtec, and last I recall they were doing pretty damn good with it. Maybe if they did open it up, you'd see some better competition. And the reason you don't see any large motored Japanese and import engines is because they are highly impractical in a country with the population of the united states, but that is the size of California, and only 10-15% of the land is habitable. Street racing isn't everything either. Lots of people compete in entry level autocross, rallying, and the likes with cars similar to most people's daily driven vehicles. There are more practical uses in racing than drag. Drag racing is actually, not even the greatest in theory and the only reason people do it, is because turning takes too much talent. Assuming everyone wants a fast drag car is like assuming everyone likes Snickers candy bars. They didn't make other flavors for no reason, and if the candy bar gets the job done, then what the hell does it matter?

And the most open minded people in this thread told the OP to get what he wants and be happy with it. You pointed him in only one direction for one racing style. Just the facts.

Thanks for the advice all, I'll start looking around...

I dont' get how you think we live our lives by "NOPI" like it is the God of all imports, because if it is, then i'm an atheist.

I love NOPI dude...whenever it rolls in I just troll around the highways for all those "performance enthusiasts" who add 90000000 pounds of useless and stupid sound equipment and make up for it with a single CAI. Its like hunting deer in a warehouse with a belt fed machine gun. Just line 'dem bitches up and knock 'em down.

Um guys, what if this guy wanted to use his car for other things like drifting, autocrossing, or roadcourses, then all your arguments about 1/4 mile times and top speeds would actually mean jack shit...

god i hate drag racing, its like saying who's penis can grow the fastest...

Um guys, what if this guy wanted to use his car for other things like drifting, autocrossing, or roadcourses, then all your arguments about 1/4 mile times and top speeds would actually mean jack shit...

god i hate drag racing, its like saying who's penis can grow the fastest...

This is the point where I giggle to myself thinking..."I guess your penis doesn't grow very fast"

:lol:

Whatever, dude... I know people that can drive a drag car like nobody's business and can't drive a nail when it comes to corners. I also know people that can drive a car around corners like they're on rails, but can't launch or shift a car worth beans. One of my oldest and best friends is one of those. He can eat me up in corners, but he can't come within .5 seconds of my 1/4 time in the same street car. Never condescend to ANYONE. It WILL come back to bite you. Drag racing is every bit as sophisticated and complex as any other form of racing (your agreement is not required here, it remains true). At the "pro" level, the team thing is big. At the "grass roots" level, not many teams, just individuals out playing with their toys. From a power outlook, DRAG RACING IS KING. 8,000 horsepower! Zero to 340 MPH in 4 1/2 seconds. Just try to imagine what that driver is trying to do. You should meet Hillary Will. She's not more than 5' 1" tall and tiny. She'll get in one of those TF cars and beat up on the "old pros". Would your girlfriend? Would you? I know I sure wouldn't. Them thangs is BAD! (:- My driver's "limit" is in a door car that MAYBE will go high 9s. I'm not experienced with the higher-powered cars.

If you've never taken your car to a track to compete (not "time only"), you should, if for no ther reason, so you can speak to these issues with experience.

EcoTech DOMINATES NHRA, so yes, I agree, they run VERY well. Not an import in sight... There are SOME of the "Super" classes (throttle-stop, chess game) where the Toyota 6s show okay. Not the V6s, though, the ones with torque. The Super classes are boring to watch, but the drivers report a high degree of challenge to win and like it.

I field a dozen questions every day regarding racing and engines. Far and away, the majority are drag or street (illegal drags) racing oriented. Forgive me if I "pidgeon hole" you. The same is said to those calling me names because I offer free advice from an experienced professional. I made an assumption based on experience. I will ask for more specific information regarding the desired approach in the future.

As for NOPI, it's always "in your face", and many of those calls I field are about the NOPI cars and how they can get their pocket rocket to run like those guys. If there's a larger, more organized or faster "imports only" club or sanctioning body, I would like to know who and where (not a rhetorical question, an honest request for information). In the meantime, I can only go on what I see.

We all like to believe our choices are "the best ones". Sometimes, they actually are. While your particular "group" (friends, associates, competition) may be auto-cross or road-racing oriented, the vast majority are not. Street racing is generally a contest of straight-line accelleration, ending before speeds get so high there's no hope. 1/4 mile has been the standard since before cars were invented ("Quarter Horse"). We did the "Mulholland Drive" thing in the '70s. We had a canyon road (Waterman Canyon, Cal St. Hwy 18) near home that we raced up and down, too. I'm not unfamiliar with "turns", and my old GTO made believers out of MANY a 240Z owner (only Japanese sports car common in the era). I guess I was smart enough to NOT them race down hill...

My approach to engines is clear and concise, stated on our website. "We don't care what color you paint it, we'll build it!" That includes imports from both sides of the oceans. As a professional, I don't have the luxury of picking and choosing what I WANT to work on. Too busy keeping the doors open and food on the table! Any engine we build is as good as it can be. Perfection? Nope. Only Jewish carpenters from the 0th Century are perfect.

I won't go any further in this. It's getting nowhere and all the youngsters are too easily riled into a defensive posture.

Jim

This is the point where I giggle to myself thinking..."I guess your penis doesn't grow very fast"

:lol:


LOL that was awsome. I think this thread needed a little humor in it, there was too much tenstion in here.

I've been drag racing, I find it very boring and too stressful on your car. Drag racing is who ever breaks down first loses. Especially if its an everyday driver who can afford to be rebuilding his transmission because of a bad launch or replacing his clutch cause he burned it out launching it. Dont get me wrong autocrossing has its down points too, but the stress you put on your car is far less than you do drag racing it.

I won't go any further in this. It's getting nowhere and all the youngsters are too easily riled into a defensive posture.

Jim

To be honest, if you took two steps by my friend, you could have just decided to shat up and let the fire burn down. As someone who was appointed as an AF Advisor, you should have a more level head on your shoulders with some common sense to boot. I'm not singling you out, but just know that AF Advisor tag you hold is what the fellow mods and Admins on here, including Iggy, hold you to. Advise.

The same goes for you too, Cassie. All you two are doing is fueling this ongoing dispute of who knows what. Now really, just shut up. If you post in here again, I kindly ask that you don't post anything in regards to each other. NOTHING AT ALL!

You're supposed to be helping out the OP. But rather, bickering like two littlekids. All is hear is an argument about "Boxers or Briefs?" I prefer boxer briefs...hehehe. :p

Anyway, anymore unuseful bickering such as this, and I'll just end the thread. You two have both demenstrated a great deal of knowledge and it could have been pointed in a better suited direction to help out our fellow enthusiast who is quite interested in the automotive game. Now, let's move past this. If you guys are civil enough, an apology would be greatly appreciated as well. That is all.

okay okay im sorry

You're supposed to be helping out the OP. But rather, bickering like two littlekids. All is hear is an argument about "Boxers or Briefs?" I prefer boxer briefs...hehehe. :p


I think boxer briefs is a good suggestion. Or in this case, a v8 swapped RX7. Depending on the swap you get good reliable and lots of power cheap. You can find 302 swapped 86-91 rx7s for under 5k and ls1 swapped for under 7 or 8k.

I think boxer briefs is a good suggestion. Or in this case, a v8 swapped RX7. Depending on the swap you get good reliable and lots of power cheap. You can find 302 swapped 86-91 rx7s for under 5k and ls1 swapped for under 7 or 8k.

I think you can get a rolling chasis FC for like...nothing. They may even pay you to take it off their hands. Go find yourself an LS6 with some miles on it. Do the work your self. Enjoy buying new tires every three weeks.

This is the point where I giggle to myself thinking..."I guess your penis doesn't grow very fast"

:lol:


It does when it's 'guys' night out.



:lol:

I think you can get a rolling chasis FC for like...nothing. They may even pay you to take it off their hands. Go find yourself an LS6 with some miles on it. Do the work your self. Enjoy buying new tires every three weeks.

I see someone read an Ask Dave column in SCC :wink:

I see someone read an Ask Dave column in SCC :wink:

In my book, its

Dave Coleman
God
Family
Country