Newbie's 94 died on freeway

Hello All,

My first post, I just joined:

I just bought a metro as a commuter car. I'm driving home and it just dies on the freeway. I coast up the next off ramp, park it, go home get my other car, then tow it home where it now sits in the garage. ARGH!

No symptons, it just conked out: no warnings, no sputtering, nothing indicative of impending death.

Ideas on where to start from anyone?

Another tidbit: this morning I connected an OB1 to it to get the diagnostic codes: there was no "12" flashing, the check engine light just stayed on steady. Could this be related?

Any help would be much appreciated.

your timing belt.

my best guess.

Disconnected the + and - battery cables at the battery for 1 min, then hook them back up. Next, get under the drivers side dash (In the fuse box) a put the spare fuse into the "Diagnotic switch" holder (#601), then turn the key forward, but DONT Start the car and watch and see if the CEL Flashes and if the diagnostic codes come up inc code 12 (Normal).....If the CEL Comes on again and stays on without flashing, The ECM (Computer under the dash near the fuse box) Is probably toast IMO, If the CEL Does flash the codes as it's suppose to.......Timing Belt or Ignition system components (Coil, Distributor) are what I would start looking at next!


ECM COMMUNICATION
The provisions for communicating with the Engine Control Module (ECM) are the Data Link Connector (DLC), the DIAG SW connector in the junction block and the diagnostic request terminal in the duty check DLC.

DIAGNOSTIC CONNECTOR LOCATIONS
The DLC is located under the instrument panel to the left of the steering column. The junction block is also located under the instrument panel to the left of the steering column. The duty check DLC is located in the left rear of engine compartment near the strut tower.

DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES
Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) are stored in ECM memory and can be read through a Diagnostic Scan Tool plugged into the DLC or by counting the flashes of the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) after grounding the DIAG SW connector or by counting the flashes of a test light after grounding the diagnostic request terminal in the duty check DLC.

DIAGNOSTIC MODE
When either terminal is grounded, the ECM enters its diagnostic mode and outputs DTCs to either the MIL or, if a test light is used, to the diagnostic output terminal of the duty check DLC.

Data Link Connector (DLC) Under Dash

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/MrBBody/Datalinkconnector.gif

Disconnected, then reconnected the battery. Plopped in a spare fuse to the test spot on the junction block, Yep, getting the one flash, two flash sequence.

Removed the spare fuse.

Disconnected the coil wire from the distributor cap to observe any spark. None there. So shotgun maintenance says replace the ignition coil, right?
Um, being the shadetree mechanic that I am: Was I suppose to see a spark? Or will the spark only happen at the spark plug?

Another shadetree question: Did I just learn a thirty dollar lesson by purchasing that OB1 from auto zone? From what I learned today by checking out the many posts here, we dont need no stinking OB1. Just use the jumper on the junction block with a spare fuse. Right? Anyone?

Yea, you should get spark from the coil wire. Be careful though, it kicks like a preditor mule.

Yea, Metros come with their own built in diagnostics feature. Pretty cool bonus.

Welcome to the forum.

Don't replace the coil as it's not your problem.

GM and mr. Hand are spot on.

You have a broken timing belt. The ECM uses the camshaft position sensor pulses to tell it when to trigger the fuel injector and ignition coil. The CPS is located in the distributor and is turned by the camshaft. The camshaft is turned by the crankshaft via the timing belt.

Take out the two 10mm hex bolts at the top of the timing belt cover and yank it back a little to see your shredded timing belt. Thank engineering for non-interference engines eh?

-MechanicMatt

P.S. I was never a fan of the shotgun method.

Removed the two bolts, pried the lid and observed no belt. Thanks for the tip 91Cap. But I did see the top of the gear. The belt must be shredded and laying at the bottom of the cover.

Found this website of service manuals. Purchased the metro, so this is how I will attempt the remove and replace: Are there any tips, tricks or recommendations before I start this thing?
Did I screw up the timing by trying to start it?

Auto zone said they will take the OB1 back and give me credit for the timing belt. Cool

From https://www.alldatadiy.com:

Service and Repair

TIMING BELT AND BELT TENSIONER

Remove or Disconnect:

Crankshaft pulley.
Retaining clips and engine wiring harness from timing belt cover.Timing Belt, Tensioner & Camshaft Gear
Seven bolts, one nut and timing belt cover from vehicle.Important: Before removing timing belt, align four timing marks by turning crankshaft.

Timing belt tensioner, tensioner plate, tensioner spring, spring damper and timing belt from cylinder block.Inspect

Timing belt for wear or cracks. Replace it as necessary.
Timing belt tensioner for smooth rotation.Install or Connect

Timing Belt Tensioner & Tensioner Plate

Tensioner plate to timing belt tensioner. Insert tensioner plate lug into the timing belt tensioner hole.Timing Belt Tensioner Installation

Timing belt tensioner and tensioner plate to cylinder block; secure with one bolt and one stud. Do not tighten fully. check to make sure that plate movement in direction of arrow causes tensioner to move in the same direction. If it does not, remove timing belt tensioner and tensioner plate and reinsert tensioner plate lug in timing plate tensioner hole.Upper Timing Marks

Check that timing mark on camshaft timing belt pulley is aligned with "V" mark on cylinder head cover. If not, align the two marks by turning the camshaft but be careful not to turn it more than its allowable turning range.Lower Timing Marks

Check that punch mark on crankshaft timing belt pulley is aligned with arrow mark on oil pump case. If not, align the two marks by turning crankshaft but be careful not to turn it more than its allowable turning range.Timing Belt Tensioner Installation

Timing belt, tensioner spring, and spring damper. With two sets of marks aligned and tensioner plate pushed up, install timing belt on two pulleys in such a way that drive side of belt is free from any slack. Then install the tensioner spring and spring damper. Hand tighten tensioner stud only.
Important


When installing timing belt, match arrow mark on timing belt with rotating direction of crankshaft.
In this state, the number one piston is at top dead center of the compression stroke.
Timing Belt Tensioner Bolt & Stud

To take up slack in timing belt, turn crankshaft two rotations clockwise after installing it. After making sure that belt is free from slack, tighten timing belt tensioner stud first and. tensioner bolt.
Tighten
Timing belt tensioner stud to 11 N.m (97 lb. in.) .
Timing belt tensioner bolt to 27 N.m (20 lb. ft.) .

Confirm again that both sets of timing marks are aligned properly.
Important

Before installing timing belt cover, make sure that seal is between coolant pump and oil pump case.
Timing belt cover; secure with seven bolts and one nut.
Tighten
Turning belt cover nut and bolts to 11 N.m (97 lb. in.) .


Crankshaft pulley.Copyright © 2008 ALLDATA LLC

Updated 4-3-08 cause those ever changing pictures were bugging me! Thanks doctorbill for posting how to edit.

just curious, what could cause your timing belt to fail or shred?

What do those pictures have to do with what is being discussed?

Mr Hand - YOU DICK!!! Jeff Spicoli

Before anyone gets all offended, I'm sure he knows that's a joke/compliment.
Timing belts, like any rubber part fail from use/time. They're supposed to be changed at 60 or 90 thousand miles depending on the year of the car.

GUNSBK314:

Your reprint of the service manual has a good written description but the pictures have nothing to do with a Metro. Stranger still, the pictures I saw this morning were completely different than the ones I'm seeing tonight.

When I copied/pasted, all the pictures were relevant. Everytime I log in the pictures are different too. Hmm. Perhaps its because it was copied/pasted from another website and there is some copyright violation code that makes it do that. Who knows. Is there any administrator that can delete the pictures/clean it up?

Anyhow I myself have been down for two days with a fever. I'll be replacing the timing belt this weekend. I will post again to give yall a status check.

Thanks for the information all!

Man I'm glad other people mentioned the pics. I thought I was losin' it.

In addition to time and age; I've seen timing belts fail in instances where the drive wheels were stopped suddenly. One of our couriers hit something on the freeway, and in addition to bent wheels and a lot of front-end damage the car had a broken timing belt. That's valvetrain inertia for ya huh?

Anywhoo, I think your instructions look quite complete. And of course the forum here will answer any questions you may have during the job.

-MechanicMatt

Finally got the timing belt cover off. Key learning for me: Bust the four crankshaft pulley bolts before lossening any belts. After theyre busted, take off the alternator/ water pump belt and a/c belt, then remove the crankshaft pulley bolts (they are 8 mm), and the pulley falls right off.

My timing marks are off. I semi attempted to turn by hand the camshaft pulley, but encountered significant resistance. I havent tried to turn the tiny craftshaft below to line it up. If they get lined up to where they should, will I have damaged anything? Did any pistons bang against any open valves or anything?

My instructions say "be careful not to turn it more than its allowable turning range". What is that? Shoulld I put a belt on it and turn them both at the same time? I'm concernied that in my frustrution of attempting to start the car, the starter turned the crankshaft and because of the busted belt, it hit all up against the valves that werent turning because of the busted belt.

OK enough for tonight. I will wait for more 411, before resuming this project.

Oh any suggestions on what to use to clean out the area that is under the cover. Douche it with WD-40?

Our engines, 1.0 and 1.3L alike, are non-interference. You can spin the crank and cam as much as you like, independently of each other, or together and out of sink. You just wont get the pistons to kiss the valves.

I personally like to use brake cleaner for almost all of my chemical metal cleaning. I would avoid using WD-40 and the like because of the lubricant they contain which would stick around and in this case is undesireable.

Those 8mm hex bolts for the crank pulley are a pita. I went to McFadden Dale's and bought a box of allen head replacements and have retrofitted the fleet with them. Along with an impact grade 1/2" drive allen bit, the pulleys have been much easier to deal with :smile:.

Goodluck and keep us posted.

-MechanicMatt

Removed the tensioner parts: wheel, bolt, plate, stud, and spring.

With the old belt I was able to turn the little crankshaft gear and the larger camshaft gear so the marks lined up.

Cleaned everything with brake cleaner. Let it dry

I put the tensioner parts on first, but there was no room to manuever the belt around it. So took them back off. Tried to put the new belt on but, it would not fit around both gears. :banghead:

Is it supposed to be tough like that? Perhaps I received the wrong size belt from auto zone?

It's possible autozone gave you the wrong belt. They have given me the wrong belt on occasion.

The fit is tight by design however, and there's a simple technique to it. Try putting your tensioner assembly back on the car and lock it in the 'loose' position. Loop the belt around the crank coming in from the top, but only get half the belt's width onto the pulley. Maneuver the backside of the belt around the tensioner, again only half the belt's width, and then you should have just enough room to get it around the cam sprocket. Then push the belt all the way on. Then let the spring put tension on the belt, lock it down and spin the crank 2 full revolutions and recheck timing marks.

-MechanicMatt

Okay guys im thinking that im pretty lame here. I got another belt frrom NAPA, held it next to the auto zone/goodyear belt - its the same size.

No matter any which way I try, I cannot get it that belt around the cam sproket. Ive tried every suggestion. Its like its short about an inch. Any one have any other input?

Um this might be a duh question...but, it is a 1.0L, right? There is no way it could be a 1.3?
1.3 is a 4 cyl, right?

Yes the 1.3 is a 4 cylinder.

Does your engine have only 3 plug wires in the front of the head? If it does yours is the 1.0 3 cylinder.
Do you have the belt tensioner moved out of the way?

Okay its a three banger..

Does anyone know what the timing belt length is?

I finally got the belt on. It was TOUGH! And it is tighter than a guitar stringI used Matt's advice and I found a tutorial on here: http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?t=26588

Still I am concerned because I had to remove the tensioner, and now I cant get the tensioner on. Actually I'm wondering why a tensioner is needed: it is that tight! Which begs the questions: What is the timing belt length?

Hm, clearly you are not the problem here. That is not the right belt for what you're working with.

Two wrong belts, exactly the same from two different parts houses. Maybe it's not the belt that's wrong.

Here (http://www.autozone.com/N,15100048/shopping/partTypeResultSet.htm) is a link to the autozone website showing the list of part numbers they carry for different brands of timing belts for the 94 metro. And here (http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=430&CatId=2&SubCatId=1) for Napa part numbers. Just to double check one of these is what you got.

You may have later model timing sprockets on your engine that require a larger belt. In which case you might try a timing belt for a '96 3cyl [duralast p/n: 95194 ; gatorback p/n: 40194]

Also be advised that your timing sprockets have either a 'round tooth' design or a 'square tooth' design.

-MechanicMatt

This forum rocks!!

I checked the two web sites and confirmed that my two belts were correct.
Reading the last sentence got me optimistic. Auto Zone did not but Napa did have a square tooth belt.

Exchanged the one I had for the other, came home installed exactly as Matt recommended and it is now in place. Took less than 3 minutes.
No words can express my appreciation for this forum. Awesome!? Naw, just isnt grand enough.

Okay, Now I have two more issues.
Instructions from my service manual say "Install the tensionerspring and spring damper". The picture points to the hook on the spring as the spring damper. And another arrow that points to the spring as the "tensioner spring". That doesnt make sense. Two parts on a spring?
When I removed the spring it was tangled up in remnants of the timing belt that was all shredded. There is another part removed that appears in may be part of the spring. It is v-shaped. I'm guessing that is the damper, but how does it install?

Second question: Is it really necessary to get a torque wrench? Can't I just set my elbow?

I usually don't put the spring dampers back. I imagine they are in there to absorb vibrations thus keeping the spring out of the t-belt's way. The V-shaped wire is the spring damper.

If you've got a new spring, slide the damper down into the spring, and hook the two of them into the adjuster, then anchor the spring around the screw sticking out of the oil pump. The damper just sits in the middle of the spring to keep it from moving around too much (i believe).

You don't need a spring however. You can just push the adjuster down with 'mild' pressure and lock it in place with the two-sided 10mm lock bolt. Then tighten the 12mm adjuster pulley center bolt.

You don't need a torque wrench on a timing belt job. But it is a must have if you want to do oil pan jobs, internal engine service, wheel bearing/hub/axle service etc.

Yes we Metroeans are very fortunate to have an absolutely kick ass forum. We've got a lot of guys here with great input.

-MechanicMatt