94 Camry....won't start....no fuel to cylinders

i run my camry out of gas not long ago on a really cold night. i left it over night before i put gas back in it, and it hasn't started since. i bought a 92 parts car, (it was running). first i swapped out the fuel pump and put on a new fuel filter. still no go. so i swapped some relays, nothing. i tested the efi relay since they're different on the 2 cars, it works. so long story short.....i have fuel and good pressure at the top of the fuel filter, fire at the plugs, but no fuel there. i don't have a noid tester to test the injecters, but i put a test light on the plug that plugs into the injecter and it's showing power on both sides. i was told that it should only show power on 1 side (w/key on) and pulsing power on the other (when turning engine over) and that i likely have a bad ground. i've checked all grounds and connections that i could find and sprayed them with contact cleaner, hooked them back up and still the same problem. any ideas? or know of any ground wires that would be easy to overlook? i tried making ground from the battery to the engine, and again from the battery to the body, and the plug still shows power on both sides.

I'm gonna guess that you've got some water or ice in the fuel lines and tank. Condensation in the tank can happen when it is nearly empty and the temperature falls. Try some gas antifreeze (such as Heet) and put some gas into the tank....I'm not being sarcastic, adding some warmer fuel might help melt any ice that's in there, mix with the antifreeze additive, and allow more of the condensate to be reabsorbed.

jdmccright's suggestion is pretty good. also, what you might want to consider is that your camry completely ran out of gas, meaning that there is no gasoline going beyond the fuel pump. try turning your key to the on position, but don't start. once in the on position, leave it there for about 15-20 seconds. then turn it off. repeat this process a couple times to get fuel into the cylinders, then crank and see what happens

i have fuel coming out the filter when i loosen the fitting at the top. i even checked the power at the plug to the injecter on both vehicles today, they both show the same thing: power on both sides (one dimmer than the other) and the dimmer side pulsates (on a test light) when turning the car over. so then i thought maybe a fuel blockage somewhere between the filter and the injecters, so i swapped out all the injecters and the fuel rail (with fuel pressure regulator and fuel pulsing condensor) and still the same thing. i've had the plugs out to test for fire and all of them were dry.....so i'm not getting fuel past the injectors.

Measure the fuel pressure and volume at the fuel rail.

i guess that's gonna have to be my next move.....but i really think that's not the problem...i've swapped out pumps (both work), put on new fuel filter, changed the rail along with the pressure regulator and pulsation damper that are attached to it.
how much pressure is req'd at the injectors to open them?

I'll agree with Brian...you need enough pressure and fuel flow. But also, I would check the following fuses, relays, and links:

[From Haynes manual]

Fuel Pump Operation
EXCEPT 1MZ-FE ENGINES
Since the fuel pump is concealed within the tank, it is difficult to test directly at the pump. It is possible to test the pump from under the hood, listening for pump function and feeling the fuel delivery lines for the build-up of pressure.

Turn the ignition switch ON, but do not start the engine.
Using a jumper wire, short both terminals of the fuel pump check connector. The check connector is located near the air cleaner. Connect the terminals labeled FP and +B. Special service connector 09843-18020 or equivalent can be used to perform this test.
Check that there is pressure in the hose running to the delivery pipe. You should hear fuel pressure noise and possibly hear the pump at the rear of the car.
If the fuel pump failed to function, it may indicate a faulty pump, but before removing the fuel pump, check the following items within the pump system:

All fusible links
All fuses (EFI-15A and IGN-7.5A)
AM2-30A
EFI main relay
Fuel pump
Circuit opening relay
All wiring connections and grounds.

Turn the ignition to OFF.
Remove the jumper wire.
If there is no fuel pump pressure and an inspection of the related electrical components does not reveal a malfunction, replace the fuel pump.

Sounds like you have good fuel pressure. You didn't give a psi amount, but most people don't have a fuel pressure gauge. If fuel comes squirting out when you take the line off the top of the fuel filter we'll just assume it's good. It's not dribbling out, right?

OK, the injectors. Power on one side if you disconnect it. Power on both sides when you connect it because the power is now going through the injector. It is grounded by the ECM (computer), so checking grounds isn't going to find your problem (unless the ECM was not grounded, but you'd have more problems I think).

If you can possibly connect the test light with one end on each side of the injector connector while it's disconnected, then you have a generic noid light. The terminals are pretty small, so it's not always easy. Be sure not to pry them apart so they fit loose when you reconnect it. Crank the engine over and see if your light flashes. It should flash consistently every time the injector is supposed to fire. Flickering because your test light connections are loose and it's bouncing around ain't good enough. You need a consistent flash to be sure your ECM is grounding the circuit.

Post back, I'll look up some possibilities if you have no injector pulse later, I gotta go back to work.

2.2 or 3.0?

i guess that's gonna have to be my next move.....but i really think that's not the problem...i've swapped out pumps (both work), put on new fuel filter, changed the rail along with the pressure regulator and pulsation damper that are attached to it.
how much pressure is req'd at the injectors to open them?

Fuel pressure doesn't open the injectors, they are opened electrically. The pressure determines the flow rate though the open injector. The ECM meters the fuel flow to your cylinders by controlling how long the injector stays open. Too little pressure and you don't get enough fuel and you are really lean. The fuel volume is necessary to keep the engine running. It would not be the first time there is a restriction in the line sufficient to keep an engine from running.

You can't tell if you have enough pressure by looking.

i know i can't tell by looking, to determine if there is enough pressure, but with the top banjo fitting slightly cracked at the (new) fuel filter, it sprays out pretty good.....i'd have to say that there's enough pressure. if there is a blockage somewhere it has to be between the pump and filter, because there is definitely none from the filter to the rail....i checked everything when i swapped out the rail and injectors. the pump has to have enough pressure, as i took it from a running car, the one i removed has plenty of pressure.....it runs the parts car. i have checked ALL fuses, EFI relay, circuit opening relay (behind glove box), every wiring connection and ground that i can find. i did test the injectoer connectors.....on both cars, they both act the same, with the key on: it shows power on both sides (one side is dimmer than the other), when turning the car over, the dimmer side pulsates, flickers, whatever you want to call it, the brighter side just dims when turning the car over......the parts car (which runs) does the exact same thing. i didn't check for fusible links tho.....how many are there....where are they located? are they the plastic boxes in the fuse boxes with a clear cover to view the metal strip? if so, i checked all of those as well. its a 2.2.

yeah, those plastic things with a clear cover are fusible links. If the light is pulsating, we'll have to assume the computer is triggering the injectors. We'll assume the fuel pressure is good. I would take the plugs out and check them, they should be fuel soaked. Clean them really good or get new ones. Try once again to start it.

If it don't start ... Check for codes, maybe there's a clue there. Check compression. Check your timing marks on the timing belt. Usually if the timing belt is off, it will show up with bad compression readings. Check for really large vacuum leaks, or maybe a big hole in the air intake hose?

i did have all the plugs out when i was checking for fire, and they were all bone dry, that's why i figure my injectors aren't opening.....or at least that fuel isn't getting past them.

Was your spark blue and really hot? or was it yellow or weak? Might be your ignition coil if your spark is not really hot.

the fire was kinda yellow looking, but they all had fire, and fired in sequence (at different times). wouldn't my plugs be wet if my ignition coil was my problem?

If you were getting fuel to the cylinders, you'd be able to smell fuel from the exhaust pipe.

A stuck injector (possible) would result in a rough running engine. All four sticking or failing at once? Improbable.

I'd concentrate on the cap, rotor, and coil...electrical components that supply ALL of the cylinders, not just one or two. Coil failure symptoms can be misconstrued as running out of fuel...it just stops running...and can happen anytime. Mine crapped out at about 170k miles...left me dead in a parking lot with snow coming down.

the fire was kinda yellow looking, but they all had fire, and fired in sequence (at different times). wouldn't my plugs be wet if my ignition coil was my problem?

Not necessarily. There is a delay before which the injectors don't open. Also, the gas delivery from injectors is very fine and may be mostly swept out the exhaust. If you didn't crank a long time at any one time, your plugs may be pretty dry and no smell out the exhaust.

Something to consider.

well, i can't see it being the coil as i have fire at all plugs, plus they fire at different times, plus i don't smell any fuel in the exhaust, or see any on the plugs when i pull them out, the car doesn't give the slightest kick when turning over, just whirls steady. but just for shit an giggles, i'll swap out the distributer and plugs, though i'm sure this can't be the problem. i think first maybe i'll squirt some fuel into the cylinders then see if it'll run, if it does, that would eleminate it being an electrical problem wouldn't it?

Squirting fuel in the cylinders may be a bad idea...
I would just replace the distributor and see what happens. I doubt the plugs are that bad.

Fire at all the plugs means nothing except you have an electrical connection to all of them. Your spark sounds weak. However, it is your time, your car and we have no vision beyond the keyboard. Do what you think is best.

I have to agree with Brian on both counts.

First, your spark does appear to be weak from your previous description. It is not necessary to change out the whole dostributor, only the coil itself. I wouldn't be surprised if that fixes your problem.

Second, don't squirt gas into the cylinders. That is not a good idea. If you want to check to see whether you have a no fuel problem, just remove the ducting leading to the throttle body and squirt some carb cleaner in there. Then reattach the ducting and try to start the car. If you now get the car to sputter when you previously got nothing before, you have varified that you have a no fuel problem.

My vote is still for the coil being the problem.

Mike

if you're getting fuel and it's not starting, the plugs should be wet

i'll swap it out tomorrow and let you know. i assume its just as easy to swap the whole distributer than just the coil.

well Brian, my hat's off to you.
swapped out the distributer and it fired right up. i couldn't believe it. anyways, i want to thank everyone for all the help and advice.

You're welcome

sorry for hijacking my own thread, but what should the timing be set at after swapping the distributer. the car seemed to be a little hesitant and harder on fuel, when i checked the timing it was around 12-13 degrees BTDC, i adjusted it to 5 degrees BTDC and it seems to work better but i can't tell if its any better on gas. but since then, i was talking to a friend who said he's pretty sure they are supposed to be timed in the 15-20 degree range BTDC. is this right? 15-20 degrees sounds like a lot to me. the only other time i remember timing a vehicle i think it called for 4 degrees BTDC.

See pages IG-19 to IG-20 in the '94 Camry manual stickied at the top of this page. Timing is normally 0-10 deg BTDC. Set at 10 deg BTDC at idle with TE1 and E1 terminals shorted.

For future reference, I was looking at my 95 2.2 for the check connector referenced and could not find it.
'The check connector is located near the air cleaner. Connect the terminals labeled FP and +B."

Where is this connector located? I had a fuel pump failure a few weeks ago and after process of elimination it was the fuel pump, but I could have found it quicker if I could have tested it from under the hood. Also, I had to have the fuel filler pipe replaced at the shop because it was rusted and fuel was leaking near the clamp that held the fuel tube to the body. I think the fuel pipe leak influienced the fuel pump failure.






I'll agree with Brian...you need enough pressure and fuel flow. But also, I would check the following fuses, relays, and links:

[From Haynes manual]

Fuel Pump Operation
EXCEPT 1MZ-FE ENGINES
Since the fuel pump is concealed within the tank, it is difficult to test directly at the pump. It is possible to test the pump from under the hood, listening for pump function and feeling the fuel delivery lines for the build-up of pressure.

Turn the ignition switch ON, but do not start the engine.
Using a jumper wire, short both terminals of the fuel pump check connector. The check connector is located near the air cleaner. Connect the terminals labeled FP and +B. Special service connector 09843-18020 or equivalent can be used to perform this test.
Check that there is pressure in the hose running to the delivery pipe. You should hear fuel pressure noise and possibly hear the pump at the rear of the car.
If the fuel pump failed to function, it may indicate a faulty pump, but before removing the fuel pump, check the following items within the pump system:

All fusible links
All fuses (EFI-15A and IGN-7.5A)
AM2-30A
EFI main relay
Fuel pump
Circuit opening relay
All wiring connections and grounds.

Turn the ignition to OFF.
Remove the jumper wire.
If there is no fuel pump pressure and an inspection of the related electrical components does not reveal a malfunction, replace the fuel pump.

I found it!! Not on the air cleaner side, but on the passanger side of the engine and it is the diagnostic port where the FP/B+ jumper is applied. Might be the the 1995 location is different than the other Gen3 engines. Seems that the Autozone FP replacment guide is also showing it on the air cleaner side. In any case, I know where to look next time.