Removing load bearing wall question

I'd like a second opinion on this idea. I'm removing a load bearing wall in my garage. The building is 24' wide, and the floor joists for the storage area above are 2"x10"x12's that rest on the center wall. I've seen those particle board I-beam things, but due to the length (38') I don't have enough vertical space to use them.

My idea is to sandwich the existing joists between two 2"x10"x8's, jack them up tight against the floor, clamp them together, drill several 7/16" holes, and pound 1/2" bolts through. I figure having the bolts that tight would keep the floor from sagging. Would I want to glue the boards too? Does anyone have any idea how much weight I could expect that long of a span to hold? The floor above is 2"x12"s nailed to the joists, can I expect them to hold up one joist so I can cut one stud out of the wall to put the new boards in?

I don't really work with wood very much so I want to be sure before I start cutting the wall apart... working with steel I can always weld some back on if I need to, plus there's no risk of the building falling on me.

This is automotiveforums.com, not buildersforums.com.

Yellow pages man :)

It's not a matter of how much weight the storage space above will hold, but how long that floor will stay straight. 38 feet is a long stretch for wood without anything under it supporting the structure. I'd leave a couple of posts holding it up or have an engineer come look at what you want to do. I've refused to mess with load bearing walls before as I wouldn't want to be responsible for the building collapsing or worse.

Yeah, but this is the COMPLETELY off-topic area, and I know lots of users have knowledge beyond cars. I have a problem paying people to do something I could probably do myself. It's not the money, it's just knowing I didn't do it myself.

I'm not messing with the 38' span, it's the 24' span I'm modifying. Menards has 24' long 2"x10"s, so I don't think length would be a problem. Unfourtunately, I can't get the 24'ers in there :(.

Yeah 38' does need some supports.
Unless it's an engineered laminate board thats made to hold the load of the floor and roof rafters.

So exactly what are you trying to do.... remove the center wall ? Would that be on the 24' side or the 38' length foot ?
I've built several houses/buildings, I'm just not grasping what your intentions are here... :uhoh:

Like skibum said you're going to need to do some math or call an engineer on this one, or something will sag or fall. :yikes:

:lol2: ....removing a load bearing wall..... :lol2:

:lol2: ....removing a load bearing wall..... :lol2:

as they say, the clue's in the title.

A steel I-beam would be my solution since you could also use it as a hoist point for working on cars.

24' is too much of a span for 2x10 or even 2x12. You will definitely need to either get a laminated I-beam to go where the wall used to be, or if all you want is a more open floor plan get some 2x8's and sandwhich them together 3 thick staggering them as needed to make it the length of the old wall.Then get yourself some of those screw jack posts from home depot. They usually have the specs listed on the box for how much weight they can support each. I would probably stick them at least every 8-10 feet and one on each end.

Will these in place you will have a much more open floor plan and you can always adjust them over time as building settles and or heaves in time.

:1: for an engineer or at least a reputable contractor who knows what they are doing.

:1: for an engineer or at least a reputable contractor who knows what they are doing.
:iagree: At least speaking with one and run your ideas by them to get their take. You might have to pay for their time or plan but at least you'll know what you're up against. I don't know how the laws are in Iowa, but work like that usually needs approval by your local building inspector. Maybe discussing your plans with your local building codes inspector ( if they have them in your area,) can also give you an idea of what you can and cannot do.

So...why does this wall need removed in the first place? :confused:
Why won't a nice arch or header similar to a garage door's work just as well?

:iagree: At least speaking with one and run your ideas by them to get their take. You might have to pay for their time or plan but at least you'll know what you're up against. I don't know how the laws are in Iowa, but work like that usually needs approval by your local building inspector. Maybe discussing your plans with your local building codes inspector ( if they have them in your area,) can also give you an idea of what you can and cannot do.

it's easier to get forgiveness than permission. :smooch:

it's easier to get forgiveness than permission. :smooch:


not true at all haha. Around here if you do it without permission (aka pay the permit fees) The code inspector can and will make you rip everything down and or out and then go through the proper channels. Most of the time if you try to go without the permits and get caught they will then deny your application for one.

Generaly most states dont require an inspection for modifications to an exsisting structure. Though it does very from state to state, and your local and county building codes.

Here you only need a permit for a new building or when pouring footings for foundation work, new or old construction.

But I'm sure you can sister a few 2x12' together(3 thick) to make a larger beam, those laminated/engineered beams are pricey for just a garage or shop IMO.

Best to play it safe and contact your local building/housing inspector and find out the particulars for your project.

not true at all haha. Around here if you do it without permission (aka pay the permit fees) The code inspector can and will make you rip everything down and or out and then go through the proper channels. Most of the time if you try to go without the permits and get caught they will then deny your application for one.
That is so true in my area. About 15 years ago, a prominent lawyer in my area built a million dollar plus mansion on property he owned on Skaneateles Lake. He did it without obtaining any permits or inspections. The town along with the building codes inspector sued and the case dragged on for quite awhile. The town eventually won and demolished the whole structure .
Generaly most states dont require an inspection for modifications to an exsisting structure. Though it does very from state to state, and your local and county building codes.
.
Actually that is starting to change very quickly across the country. Usually anytime you modify any supporting aspect of a structure, that will require a permit and inspection to see if it is done properly. I believe the insurance companies are lobbying for laws , especially in areas prone to damage from weather and geological phenomenons ( hurricanes, earthquakes, etc.) to make sure the building has a better chance of surviving such an extreme. I've seen reports where certain insurance companies now require their policy holders to notify them of any structural changes to any buildings they insure and to make certain any work was done with approval and inspection. Failure to comply would result in a cancellation of the policy and voiding of any coverage(s). But like JC says, always check with your local office to see what is needed.

That is so true in my area. About 15 years ago, a prominent lawyer in my area built a million dollar plus mansion on property he owned on Skaneateles Lake. He did it without obtaining any permits or inspections. The town along with the building codes inspector sued and the case dragged on for quite awhile. The town eventually won and demolished the whole structure .



Yup, My father who lives about an hour and a half south east of you, purchased the property about 15 years ago. At the time no building codes or permits were required at the time. Well he decided to build about 4 years ago and just started building not bothering to look into whether or not the laws had changed. Turns out they did and after he had the whole house structure framed was shut down by the building inspector. Now the town won't allow the structure to be finished. Everything is up to code or better. I guess what happened is that the inspector refuses to allow the building to continue because the individual points of construction were not inspected and checked off individually. So my fathers only option is to tear it all down and redo it haha.

It varies by county in Iowa, there is no inspection/approval of interior work needed where I live. A friend of mine had the great idea to start a small unapproved exterior project (window) on a thursday after 5:00. If any neighbors call because there's no permit tag, it wouldn't be until friday that they can call, and then there's no time to go out and inspect it with no notice, they're closed weekends, and he was done by sunday :biggrin:

Yeah 38' does need some supports.
Unless it's an engineered laminate board thats made to hold the load of the floor and roof rafters.

So exactly what are you trying to do.... remove the center wall ? Would that be on the 24' side or the 38' length foot ?
I've built several houses/buildings, I'm just not grasping what your intentions are here... :uhoh:

Like skibum said you're going to need to do some math or call an engineer on this one, or something will sag or fall. :yikes:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh68/J-Ri/garage.jpg

Clearly not to scale, and the walls are straighter than that... but I'm removing the center wall which presently supports the two 12' spans. There was a workshop area on the side without the garage door, it was nice, but had a wood floor, and the door was only 16" wide and about 18" above the garage floor. Not very good for metal working. The area above has absolutely no roof supports that are supported by the floor joists, the entire weight of the roof is supported by the 2x6 exterior walls. Since Menards has 24' long 2x10s, clearly a span can be that long or they wouldn't sell them. Also, I can't use support pillars... would kindda defeat the purpose of opening up the area. There is only 1-2' on each side of my truck as-is and I want more..... but if you do the math on that, my truck is about 9 feet wide, so I think I'll re-measure the width :eek7: . Due to the height of the ceiling, I can't use the engineered laminate board (I couldn't think of the name, that's what I called the "particle board I-beam"), or I won't be able to jack my truck up if it's in the center and it may not even clear depending on how tall the laminate board needs to be to support the 38' span.

It varies by county in Iowa, there is no inspection/approval of interior work needed where I live. A friend of mine had the great idea to start a small unapproved exterior project (window) on a thursday after 5:00. If any neighbors call because there's no permit tag, it wouldn't be until friday that they can call, and then there's no time to go out and inspect it with no notice, they're closed weekends, and he was done by sunday :biggrin:

The way the codes or laws are written vary so much from town to town or county to county. In my township you need a permit if you are planning to replace a window with a larger size, but you don't need a permit to go to a smaller size. It would be easy if all towns or municipalities adopted the same code, like one written on a statewide level. That could make things a lot easier on us all.

That wall might not even be a suporting wall. :dunno:
Once you start knocking it out you shouldbe able to tell if its suporting or not.

Those truses are standard, so it "should" be Ok.
But you wont be able to store much wieght up in the rafters or you could compromise thier integrity by overloading them and your roof could sag or fall.

One of my garages has 24' truses w/ 5/12 pitch, and is 48' long and I have no other suports other then the exterior walls. But my truses were made to have an open floor plan.
Something like this...
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/plan2.jpg

If you wanted to us them for a lift mech. then you could sister 2x12s to the rafters/trus that you want to use for lifting but they need to span the entire 24'.

Yeah Tom these laws are changing everyday , and some of them are realy screwy.
Here an inspector has to sign off on everything on new constructoin.

Since Menards has 24' long 2x10s, clearly a span can be that long or they wouldn't sell them. Also, I can't use support pillars... would kindda defeat the purpose of opening up the area.

Just because they sell 24' lengths of 2x10 doesn't mean they are intended to be used as a floor joist. I can go to my local lumber yard and by a 16' 1x4, but i'd think twice before standing on it! Around here code says 14' (if I recall correctly) is max for 2x10 on 16" center.

Anyway though if the roof is supported on the exterior walls then the wall is only to suport the floor of the storage area. Have you thought of removing the floor as well as the wall? Have a nice tall workshop and garage? Or you said that you're truck barely clears? so what about just moving the wall over a bit? or doing the support column thing but not exactly where the old wall was? Give yourself another foot or two for the truck and still have plenty of strength to support the storage area.

If the length is 24' and the wall is at 12' then you could easily put up support columns and have them splitting the building at say 10' and 14' and that would be very adequate for 2x10 joists.

So your asking if you can make a header for the whole length with 2x10? I think I would go with a 2x12 (or bigger) and maybe sandwich 3 together instead of the usual two. Header being the beam above an opening in a wall. (no not exhaust) All windows, door ways and garage doors have them. (at least if done right) the beam is resting usually on at least doubled up 2x4's or better. In this case I think it should be on the "or better" side.

Someone should have said something sooner.......oh wait... .. or header similar to a garage door's work just as well? :2cents:

So your asking if you can make a header for the whole length with 2x10? I think I would go with a 2x12 (or bigger) and maybe sandwich 3 together instead of the usual two. Header being the beam above an opening in a wall. (no not exhaust) All windows, door ways and garage doors have them. (at least if done right) the beam is resting usually on at least doubled up 2x4's or better. In this case I think it should be on the "or better" side.

Someone should have said something sooner.......oh wait... :2cents:


Thats the idea I've been pushing haha, but its not really a header if its going for 30 something feet. A header is something you put over windows and doorways as you stated with some jack studs supporting it on either end. The quantity of jack studs is dictated by local code. Some places need one one either side and other places require a double jack stud on either side.

Anyway even a triple 2x12 will need support posts to support this floor. Also sounds to me that he is concerned about head room so a 12 may make for a sore forehead.

Thats the idea I've been pushing haha, but its not really a header if its going for 30 something feet. I thought we were talking about a short span, just long enough to clear the truck. I was sleeping on that part.
No, I wouldn't try to go over about 25' without getting a professional to blame...I mean help.

That wall might not even be a suporting wall. :dunno:
Once you start knocking it out you shouldbe able to tell if its suporting or not.

It definately is. The 24' span is clearly two seperate pieces as there is a small gap between some, and only have a piece of plywood nailed on one side holding them somewhat together. Plus I already had to remove one stud to take out an old water heater (70 gal electric) and the blade in my sawzall started to bind when the cut was finished.


Anyway though if the roof is supported on the exterior walls then the wall is only to suport the floor of the storage area. Have you thought of removing the floor as well as the wall? Have a nice tall workshop and garage? Or you said that you're truck barely clears? so what about just moving the wall over a bit? or doing the support column thing but not exactly where the old wall was? Give yourself another foot or two for the truck and still have plenty of strength to support the storage area.

I had thought about removing the floor, but I would need to leave three or four joists in place for the garage door opener and tracks... or else rig up an angle iron bracket, but it would have to be about 7 feet tall to make it to the roof. I also took another look (was going to re-measure the width, but I forgot), and there actually are roof supports, but they're only about a foot in from the outside wall. I am planning on digging down about a foot or two to give me more vertical space. Half (what had the raised wood floor) is un-paved, and the other half is cracking pretty bad. I'm tearing out the cracking side anyway, and if I dig down, I'll get to use a skidloader :biggrin: