losing faith

Much like the discussion with love goes, does losing faith (in God, specifically) mean that perhaps one didn't really have faith to begin with?

I find myself questioning my faith heavily. With the shootings and especially seeing the Westboro Baptist Church being involved in so much hatred really makes me question why I even believe in God.

Some would say that it is through these hard times that we discover our real faith. Perhaps. But if all we are to be met with is hatred and violence and death - hatred from those who would call themselves Christians and suggest that God hates us, violence from our peers against people who did nothing to provoke it, so on and so forth - what impact are we really having as people who are to be living counter-culturally?

I went to the Westboro Baptist web site and just looked around it and I felt so much hatred and sadness and anger and disbelief when looking at that site. The biggest feeling, however, was the sadness. It honestly made me want to cry, seeing those people hating everyone around them, praising the deaths of people at a school where I have SEVERAL friends, teaching new generations of children to be bigots against people that they don't even know. My heart ached.

I know to some people, this group is just a "cult," which makes sense if you think about it logically. But it effects me more than that because while I constantly struggle with my own identity and role as a Christian and what it means to love people as Jesus and God would love them, treat even those people who would be my enemies as kin and to forgive people who have hurt me in ways that I dare not describe, I see these people - these people who are supposed to be people of Christ and of God, and they are preaching hatred, bigotry and intolerance. They are praising the deaths of their fellow man - soldiers, students, innocents - because of a lifestyle they don't agree with. These people, who I am supposed to say are my brothers and sisters, represent me and my faith as a faith that would cheer at the news of a school shooting or a bomb explosion against our soldiers. It makes my heart pain.

All I want to know is: Why? It sounds simple enough and many people would probably say "you and everyone else," but not everyone else feels the same as I do. My feelings are my own and you will never know how deeply troubling it is for me to not know the answer to this question. This is the one question that I wish God would give me a verbal answer to.

I know there are some of you who are atheists, and that's fine. I welcome your thoughts as well. I'm having a real hard time grasping my faith in God, my faith in life and my faith in my fellow man. Even if you don't pray, keep me in your thoughts, please.

It would seem that religion breeds intolerance of others who are different, no matter what the religion is.

That is a sad reality of the world around us.

It might seem intimidating to challenge your faith, and question what you've been taught/chosen to believe your entire life, but it seems to be just another part of progressing through life, maturing, call it what you will.

I think it's very healthy and you'll probably be a more rounded individual because of it.

http://www.godhatesfags.com

There's another site run by another "cult" that does just about the same thing. Questioning your faith is only normal because everything is unknown. Nobody has ever come back to life after being dead a few days and give a vivid description of heaven and god and everything so it's all faith that there's something more. Personally I don't believe because everything I was taught all seemed to contradict itself. I was always being told "I have to attend church to pray in the house of god" but in the same sense how is that building any different from my own house which if god created everything then it is his house as well? The other thing I don't believe in is all these people that say that the bible or kuran or whatever book they use is an accurate account of everything from the beginning of time but no where in there does it mention evolution or dinosaurs or any of the other things that people have discovered. I look at the bible as a good fictional story nothing major from it has ever been proven to be 100% concrete so therefore to me it's just a story and always will be. If you question your faith it doesn't necessarily believe that you never had faith but just that you are human and are unsure of the unseen which everyone is. For every argument for the bible there's always been something to go against it. As far as everything that's going on with school shootings and such there's just alot of hatred in people, but doesn't necessarily mean that they're devil worshipers as some would say just that they're F***** up in the head. This world will never change there will always be good and bad and people will always have a reason why god doesn't do something to stop the violence. That's just my 2 cents worth.

I have heard about every testimony dealing with why "there is no God." I do not believe EVERYTHING in the Bible. I believe some of it is a for a lack of a better phrase, "teach a lesson" entry. I do believe in God though. And the way I see it, is that you will be tested through many trials, even thoughs that would push you to questioning your own faith. Being Christian isn't about taking an "easy road." It is about being tested through and through, through the most difficult things, to determine what kind of person you are and how strong your faith stands. Thus, you are graded in a sense on judgement day. And this is just my perspective, and am not trying to push this on anyone else. It's just one way to look at it.

I think people need to believe in whatever they need to that gets them through hard times. There are and will always be extreme religion in both ways. I think it's each individuals choice to determine their own "right way" in life. If you have kids, which one do you want to see die? none! If "we are all Gods children" then who does God want to see die? I'm guessing none! I'm not religious but if I'm a good person, and I am wrong for not believing, I think "God" would laugh then take care of me.

I look at the bible as a good fictional story nothing major from it has ever been proven to be 100% concrete so therefore to me it's just a story and always will be. ...well, it was written in the times people thought the world was flat, the earth was the center of the universe, leaches sucked sickness out of you, witches, vampires etc etc etc...........

Much like the discussion with love goes, does losing faith (in God, specifically) mean that perhaps one didn't really have faith to begin with?

...But it effects me more than that because while I constantly struggle with my own identity and role as a Christian and what it means to love people as Jesus and God would love them... I see these people - these people who are supposed to be people of Christ and of God, and they are preaching hatred, bigotry and intolerance. They are praising the deaths of their ...

All I want to know is: Why? It sounds simple enough and many people would probably say "you and everyone else," but not everyone else feels the same as I do. My feelings are my own and you will never know how deeply troubling it is for me to not know the answer to this question. This is the one question that I wish God would give me a verbal answer to.

Even if you don't pray, keep me in your thoughts, please.

Does losing faith mean that one did not have it to begin with? Perhaps, but it sounds to me as if you are questioning, not losing. Questioning faith is the reason we are here. God could have created us in heaven, but we are here on earth to decide if we want to spend eternity with Him.

I'm guessing you never read the Bible, or at least never got very far. Read the book of Leviticus. God kills people for what may seem to us as rediculous reasons. For example, if two men are fighting and a woman interferes on her husbands behalf by kicking his opponent in the nuts, she is to be put to death. If you think I'm joking, read it, it's in there. Our purpose is to serve Him, so if we go against His wishes, what use are we? I believe the reason that the woman is to be put to death is because God tells us repeatedly "be fruitful and multiply", and she is damaging that chance. On the other hand, in the New Testament, Jesus' love is more what we are familiar with. Also, He says that we will be judged by God, so I don't think we should be killing people for their sins, but I do think that if someone truly believes in Jesus (which is the ONLY requirement to go to Heaven [John 3:16- And God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting live], provided you don't commit the one unforgivable sin [Matthew 12:21- And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.]) they wouldn't do what God strictly commands not to do.

It's a test. If God gave us verbal responses, it wouldn't be faith, and would eliminate the need for earth. Let me ask you this: If you are losing your faith, why would you want people to pray for you? Again, it only sounds like questioning, and I believe God wants us to question everything.

You can't lose your faith in something that is plagerised.

I see loseing your faith as growing up, becoming the 'Age of Reason'.......

Christanity is nothing but a deliberate rip-off, and a pure plageristic attempt to mimic ancient egyptian and babalonian relgions and cults. The only reason Christianity won over Roman Paganism was because Christanity (like many other 3kB.C Egyptian religions) offered ETERNAL LIFE.


Youtube christanity, you'll find what you're looking for.

You may not be "losing" your faith but you may be on the way to "suppressing" it sort of the way I have. I'm the youngest in a large Catholic family. I do not attend mass so I am "non-practicing". This is translates to most other christians as non-belief. But I've considered my religious orientation again and again and still conclude that yes I do believe. But it's very difficult, to put it mildly, to accept any given religious structrue as truth. And seeing the actions of such "cults" or wayward fantatics who proclaim the good word and teachings of the christian way of life etc. etc. just makes it even more difficult. Recently, my father has been ordained a Deacon of the Catholic Church. I attended his ordination but that was out of respect for my father and the Catholic institution. However, I don't necessarily agree with all of it. If I told my father that he would certainly think lowly of me. And being that he's now well-read in bible verses and pedantic religious writings (only dealing with Catholic teachings) he would frown upon my views even moreso. I've always known my dad to be a good man but a person who would yell at us kids not five minutes after leaving mass Sunday mornings and argue with his wife repeatedly. It all gets wiped under the carpet since he's still married after 44 years, raised 5 good Catholic kids (in his eyes) and has become a learned man of the cloth. This is just one example of how I've witnessed the "saving" or rather the rhetorical workings of the Bible on one man. The Bible is a powerful tool. People have died protecting what they've read in that book as pure truth. Be careful who you argue with or they may lash out. I've seen it happen before here in the Bible Belt. Pretty scary. So when people ask me what religion I am. I say that I don't go to church... which is in fact, true and prevents unwanted arguments...

I come from a pretty religious family. I grew up going to church 4 days a week, my mom is on Trustee Board, my dad was a Deacon (til he moved away), and my entire extended family are church members. However, I've also come to question religion in recent years and any time I go to church now, its just to make my mom happy. Although I know she can tell that I'm just not the same "church-going Christian" that she is and she doesn't put as much effort into convincing me to attend.

I can't really pinpoint what it is/was that has me doubting my religion, but when I think about the fact that over the centuries of people on this planet and the many diferent religions/gods/faiths that humans have followed it all begins to seem more hollow. I wouldn't say I'm completely an athiest, but I'm definitely not very religious. If someone asks me, I'll say I'm baptist just because that's the church I grew up in and still attend from time to time. But at this point in my life, I see religion as a vehicle of hope for many. It seems to me that religion serves as a means to add value to life. A few years ago I was in a real bad spot and I got religious pretty quickly. I prayed every night and it helped me feel a little better. Once my bad situation had passed, religion left me again. I don't know if that's more of an indictment against religion or me, but whatever the case, the drive to hold onto a force bigger than me departed once I felt more secure in my own situation.

I draw an analogy between religion and politics. The intention is good at the core, yet often goes astray. There are many different views, but only a few major factions. Everyone practices in their own way and believes their views are primarily correct. At the end of the day, everyone lives on the same planet reardless of their view and there's no definitive way to determine who is correct or not. You just know what works best for you personally.

If/when I have kids, I plan to take them to church with the intent of providing them with a positive set of morals that I feel church helped build in me. When they're older and can analyze things on a deeper level, I may consider sharing my views, but I don't want to disuade them from holding onto religion just because I feel its unnecessary.

The bible isn't the best place to go for morals. Government legislation is a way better example. At least the Government don't preach the death and destruction of all gays, non-believers and rebelious teenages....


Oh, I went there.

I get what you're saying and I agree, but I think there are still some positive effects the church can have on kids. If nothing else, it serves as a place where they can meet adults that care about their best interest and look after them even when they don't know it. Even though I don't feel the need to attend church anymore, I still recognize that I met many good people there and I learned some quality values there.

but I think there are still some positive effects the church can have on kids. "Marilyn Manson" grew up going to catholic schools. I think Ted Bundy did too?.....Just thought that was ironic/appropriate/funny..
I'm NOT saying catholic or any other religion is bad!

I get what you're saying and I agree, but I think there are still some positive effects the church can have on kids. If nothing else, it serves as a place where they can meet adults that care about their best interest and look after them even when they don't know it. Even though I don't feel the need to attend church anymore, I still recognize that I met many good people there and I learned some quality values there.

Oh yeah, too true, I grew up Catholic, went to a Catholic school and was literally forced to church for like 7 years of my Primary schoo life (5-10yrs).

Then I went to a public high school, lawl.

I think Ted Bundy did too?... Methodist...my bad.

J-swigz- I know what you're going through. Matter of fact, I know exactly what you're going through. I'm a Muslim and after 9/11 tragedy I felt very discouraged in practicing my faith. One, seeing that "Muslims" destroying innocent people and two, non-Muslims spreading hatred about your belief and three, Muslims are so divided these days that it may seem no one is helping each other. But the more I got spiritual, the more I started to understand the basis of my faith. I constantly have to defend my faith to people spreading phobia about Islam. Yes and it happens alot. You face criticisms, being mistreated or whatever people will do to hurt you. Look at it this way, if you want to remain Christian or whatever beliefs you follow, do it for YOU! When you do it for yourself, you're also doing it for God because whatever God commands you to do, its for your own good. If the world around you is bad, be good to them. Be the light that it's in the dark. It's a gift.The world may seemed messed up with people with all kinds of beliefs but there's still alot of good Jews, Christians , Muslims, Bhuddist, athiest or people in general.

And God is the source of strength and success.

Losing faith on what?

Your religion in general?
Or have you broken down so much to question a God in general no matter if it's Jesus, Allah, or Xenu?

When you get down to it though it's all up to you. You'll have to sit down and ask, "What do I believe?" "Do I believe in a God?"

Really though, why do you care about others when it comes to your beliefs?
Richard Dawkins writes many books and has a following which I don't have. Do I care? No, he's a dumbass.
Half of Hollywood believes that Xenu shit that gets thrown at them. Do I care? No they have their head up their ass. They just need to stick to movies and fuck off when it comes to trying to pass off a religion.

I spent time coming face to face with my beliefs and questioning them. Now I feel more confident than ever and could care less if somebody gives my belief a bad name because I know that person isn't following my belief in the first place. I mean hell if a milk man goes on a killing spree does that mean all milk men are evil? Hell no it just means one of them didn't follow the code of the milk men and went crazy.

Everyone goes through a period in their life where they question what they are taught. This is a time for reflection on your own, not what others think. There are always going to be racists, biggots, sexist, etc out there who will try to undermine your beliefs and force what they think on you... ie: Tom Cruise. Just that you have faith is what really matters.

It doesn't matter if its different from what I believe or from what your religion believes. In the end you make the decision. Things happen to make us question our faith, but you have to be strong and hold fast to what you believe is right. Hang in there you'll find your path....

Never underestimate how little others can do to help you in these situations. You have to look within for answers. Your feelings are most likely entirely beyond words.:2cents:

We don't question our faith when we read about violence, hate, murders and wars in the Bible. Why should we question when we read about it in the newspaper?

We don't question our faith when we read about violence, hate, murders and wars in the Bible. Why should we question when we read about it in the newspaper?

i question the faith of the people who wrote the modern bible. i question the motives of people who believe that a poor jewish person with some good ideas should be the basis for slavery, wars, corruption, and excuses for all of the above. im sorry but jesus isnt god. god isnt a person, nor is it appropriate to refer to any part of god as 'material' at all. god is not a he or a she. god has no feelings, god doesnt need to be capitalized in every sentence, and most of all, every religion believes in the same god. but organized religion in itself is a crutch for the weak*, and forcing it on people, especially kids, is as wrong as any sort of brainwashing/propaganda/mental abuse.

let me touch on this a bit before some people get all pissed off.
when i say crutch for the weak, i mean people who rely on any organized religion to decide things for them are by nature weak. in my experience, people who attend church/mass/temple/whatever you call it, are good people and im not at all against that part. its a place where people with similar views of the world can meet and discuss things more important than what is normally said over lunch or whatever. organized religion has nothing to do with this. faith on the other hand is one of the most important things that humanity has going for it. faith in what you could call common sense, faith that humans are by nature good, and most of all faith that every individual exists for a purpose. this faith is god. and from this faith comes humility, honesty, and trust. look at people around you who only have faith in themselves. they are selfish, disloyal, jealous, arrogant, and more or less not good. the only problem that comes in to play is we as a race were blessed with free will and reason. neither is inherently good or bad, but they both complement and offset each other. its the root of everything thats both wrong and right with the world. its what makes us human. there will always be a balance, always be enough people of true faith that no matter how twisted and convoluted society's view of itself gets, an overriding human urge to do the right thing will make sure our race will continue to advance.


last of all, to all those who are ignorant...GOD IS THE WHY NOT THE HOW. no one can speak to god because god isnt a being and therefore cannot communicate. a priest and a suicide bomber both have the same right to say they spoke to god and they are both wrong.

to the OP, i see you as not so much losing faith but starting to realize really what faith is. true loss of faith is when you realize that no matter what you cannot have an impact on humanity. that your existance has absolutely no meaning to anyone but yourself. and thats not possible.

i question the faith of the people who wrote the modern bible...

That's all good and fine with me. But it doesn't really answer my question.

Regardless of whether your faith is in God or in god, why does reading about violence and murder in the newpaper make one question one's faith, yet reading about the same things in the Bible does not?

I have a question for several people who have posted on this thread. Why is the idea that there may be a being more powerful that you so scary? Why do you feel the need to disprove the very idea that God exists? You have no more proof that God doesn't exist than I have that He does. Yet you feel the need to question the intelligence and strength of anyone who has an opposing view, and state your opinion as fact. Why?

I have a question for several people who have posted on this thread...

Strange question - no one in this thread said anything about fearing an almighty creator, no one tried to prove he doesn't exist, and no one questioned anyone's intelligence. Are you reading something into this thread that isn't there?

Strange question - no one in this thread said anything about fearing an almighty creator, no one tried to prove he doesn't exist, and no one questioned anyone's intelligence. Are you reading something into this thread that isn't there?

i think he might be partially talking to me. and in answer to that ill say that no i dont fear the existance of a being more powerful than me. but theres nothing in the bible, koran, or any other religious writings/context that suggests to me that god is a being. for millenia, ancient civilizations have believed in gods who were almost human in makeup. i always have attributed this to the fact that humans by nature are vain. we thought the earth was a disc that the universe rotated around, and by 'we' i mean the very people that are credited with creating this 'god' as a person. this does nothing for me as far as questioning my faith, i just dont think that someone who lived in that time period had the whole picture. and its clear to me that thinking of god as 'omniscient', 'omnipresent', 'all powerful', and a living being is a contradiction in terms. why is it so threatening for religious types to acknowledge this as a possibility? just because the bible says something doesnt make it right. it was written by humans about humans in a time where both religion and science were in their infancy. i do not see anything that should be threatening to you about this belief. to the contrary i think this way of thinking not only makes more sense, but would give everyone more freedom to both experience faith as it occurs in every day life, and be more relevant to everyone in a modern age. seeing god as a person or being stopped being relevant at least a thousand years ago.

That's all good and fine with me. But it doesn't really answer my question.

Regardless of whether your faith is in God or in god, why does reading about violence and murder in the newpaper make one question one's faith, yet reading about the same things in the Bible does not?

i wasnt really trying to answer that, because to me they both are equal. that question doesnt apply to me i guess so i didnt answer it.

Strange question - no one in this thread said anything about fearing an almighty creator, no one tried to prove he doesn't exist, and no one questioned anyone's intelligence. Are you reading something into this thread that isn't there?

Perhaps "scary" was the wrong term, or at least just my opinion.
As far as questioning believer's intelligence:
I see loseing your faith as growing up, becoming the 'Age of Reason'...
Therefore, keeping your faith would be unreasonable

i question the faith of the people who wrote the modern bible. i question the motives of people who believe that a poor jewish person with some good ideas should be the basis for slavery, wars, corruption, and excuses for all of the above. im sorry but jesus isnt god. god isnt a person, nor is it appropriate to refer to any part of god as 'material' at all. god is not a he or a she. god has no feelings, god doesnt need to be capitalized in every sentence, and most of all, every religion believes in the same god. but organized religion in itself is a crutch for the weak*, and forcing it on people, especially kids, is as wrong as any sort of brainwashing/propaganda/mental abuse.

last of all, to all those who are ignorant...GOD IS THE WHY NOT THE HOW. no one can speak to god because god isnt a being and therefore cannot communicate. a priest and a suicide bomber both have the same right to say they spoke to god and they are both wrong.
Everything I underlined is opinion. The Bible would contradict all of that. It all comes down to what each individual believes.

I was sure that someone said "God does not exist"... so perhaps I was reading something that wasn't there, or at least is no longer there.

This will be my last post on this thread, I realized last night while arguing this very topic with a freind that I won't convince anyone that God does exist, and nobody will convince me that He doesn't.

Faith is a wall, a harsh wall.

When you study and understand the origin of religion, you realise they're all plagasizing each other.

God is a concept of man. Jesus never existed and Muhammad was a pedophile. These are all products of history.

God explains mans explanation of life, pre-science of course, enter technology and understanding, if you remove God from the equation, life makes sense.

God explains mans explanation of life, pre-science of course, enter technology and understanding, if you remove God from the equation, life makes sense.


How so? Just curious. Give us your thoughts.

How so? Just curious. Give us your thoughts.

God is a product of man, man is not a product of God.

I get what you're saying and I agree, but I think there are still some positive effects the church can have on kids. If nothing else, it serves as a place where they can meet adults that care about their best interest and look after them even when they don't know it. Even though I don't feel the need to attend church anymore, I still recognize that I met many good people there and I learned some quality values there.

Don't know about that! These days church seems to be a place where you can take your kids to be molested! Sad but true! Also giving kids such a strict belief just gives them more reason to rebel!

I believe that most organized religions are incorrect because they have perverted the core of the religion. My religion is based on a personal relationship with the being that died on a cross to save my soul. Yes I question my faith, yes I question the very universe. But every time I question these things I find my beliefs strengthened.

Faith is a wall, a harsh wall.

When you study and understand the origin of religion, you realise they're all plagasizing each other.

God is a concept of man. Jesus never existed and Muhammad was a pedophile. These are all products of history.

God explains mans explanation of life, pre-science of course, enter technology and understanding, if you remove God from the equation, life makes sense.

How does sciences theory of the Big Bang makes sense? You get something out of nothing with that theory, which contradicts the very nature of science......to say that Jesus never existed is a prety bold statement. The Bible is a proven historical document. It also was not plaguerized from any other relegions. Other religions have paguerized it though....see the Book of Mormom. The Bible is 100% accurate as it was written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Thats right, there are NO contradictions as people like to say. The Bible consists of an Old Covenant and a New Covenant. They are different, NOT contraditing.............granted this will most likely not change anyones opnions, as no matter what you say will change mine. The difference between me and you though, is that I can pray for you!!

I like the last sentence.