99 Escort Not Starting
natbur
02-07-2008, 10:54 AM
I have a 1999 Ford Escort ZX/2 with a 2.0L DOHC, ~130k miles. Doesn't start. The starter motor happily churns away, and the plugs fire, but it doesn't even sound like it's trying to start. I suspect it might be a fuel system problem.
Here's the full story:
Back in October, it stalled, then started back up with the SES light on, but didn't generally have any problems. I went down to AutoZone and checked the code, "Circuit failure in the camshaft position sensor module". I replaced the cam sensor, but couldn't reset the light (they'll check it, but refuse to reset it). As the car was running fine, and I thought I had fixed the problem, I ignored the light. Over the next couple weeks, I noticed the engine only had about 70% of the power it used to. The one day in late September, it died going around a corner two blocks from my house. This time it refused to start. After pushing it home, and tearing through the engine over the next couple weeks, I eventually found a broken wire in the wiring harness leading to...da da da, the camshaft sensor. I repaired the harness, checked each wire using my multimeter, 0-2ohm resistence on each wire. However, the car still refused to start. I continued to rack my brains, and google, about what the problem could be. Untimately, I checked everything, and replaced the PCM (since their impossible to check). Nothing fixed the problem. In the interum, I ended up buying a new car, but I still wanted to fix my Escort. Last week, I fiinally got the bright idea to check the plugs directly to see if they were firing. I pulled the first plug, and it was litterally dripping with, what I assume (about the right consistence, couldn't light it with a lighter), was oil. I think this is because I've probably attempted to start it in excess of 100 times over the last three months. I purchased a new set of plugs, and did my best to clean up the excess oil out of the combustion chamber (thin rag shoved into the spark plug hole, probably not the best way, but I was working with what I had). Once I was satisified that things were sufficiently clean, I installed the new plugs and tried again, with the same result. This time, I took each plug out one at a t time and watched it as I tried to start the car, all of them fired. At this point my assumption is that it's a fuel system problem, but I don't really know where to go from here.
Here's the full story:
Back in October, it stalled, then started back up with the SES light on, but didn't generally have any problems. I went down to AutoZone and checked the code, "Circuit failure in the camshaft position sensor module". I replaced the cam sensor, but couldn't reset the light (they'll check it, but refuse to reset it). As the car was running fine, and I thought I had fixed the problem, I ignored the light. Over the next couple weeks, I noticed the engine only had about 70% of the power it used to. The one day in late September, it died going around a corner two blocks from my house. This time it refused to start. After pushing it home, and tearing through the engine over the next couple weeks, I eventually found a broken wire in the wiring harness leading to...da da da, the camshaft sensor. I repaired the harness, checked each wire using my multimeter, 0-2ohm resistence on each wire. However, the car still refused to start. I continued to rack my brains, and google, about what the problem could be. Untimately, I checked everything, and replaced the PCM (since their impossible to check). Nothing fixed the problem. In the interum, I ended up buying a new car, but I still wanted to fix my Escort. Last week, I fiinally got the bright idea to check the plugs directly to see if they were firing. I pulled the first plug, and it was litterally dripping with, what I assume (about the right consistence, couldn't light it with a lighter), was oil. I think this is because I've probably attempted to start it in excess of 100 times over the last three months. I purchased a new set of plugs, and did my best to clean up the excess oil out of the combustion chamber (thin rag shoved into the spark plug hole, probably not the best way, but I was working with what I had). Once I was satisified that things were sufficiently clean, I installed the new plugs and tried again, with the same result. This time, I took each plug out one at a t time and watched it as I tried to start the car, all of them fired. At this point my assumption is that it's a fuel system problem, but I don't really know where to go from here.
denisond3
02-07-2008, 06:40 PM
I dont know if the 99's are laid out like the 92's, but I would pull off the top of the air filter housing, and while an accomplish cranked the engine over, I would spray starting fluid into the air inlet - to see if it coughed and tried to run. I know that you can remove the air inlet duct at the throttle body, and spray the fluid in there too - but mine wont run unless the air inlet duct is in place. Its because the mass air flow sensor has to be feeling some air go by, or the system doesnt seem to fire the injectors.
And if yours is like mine, a small crack in that air inlet duct will really interfere with the engine starting nicely or idling.
And if yours is like mine, a small crack in that air inlet duct will really interfere with the engine starting nicely or idling.
mightymoose_22
02-07-2008, 10:18 PM
You should try a compression check. You can have air, fuel, and spark, but without compression it is all no good.
Davescort97
02-08-2008, 03:10 AM
It might be a broken timing belt.
natbur
02-11-2008, 08:44 PM
You should try a compression check. You can have air, fuel, and spark, but without compression it is all no good.
Is a compression check something I could do myself? I'd hate to have to tow it to a shop...
Is a compression check something I could do myself? I'd hate to have to tow it to a shop...
natbur
02-11-2008, 08:47 PM
It might be a broken timing belt.
If it's broken, will it be obvious? (I have the Hanes book, so I should be able to figure out how to get to it).
If it's broken, will it be obvious? (I have the Hanes book, so I should be able to figure out how to get to it).
natbur
02-11-2008, 08:49 PM
I dont know if the 99's are laid out like the 92's, but I would pull off the top of the air filter housing, and while an accomplish cranked the engine over, I would spray starting fluid into the air inlet - to see if it coughed and tried to run. I know that you can remove the air inlet duct at the throttle body, and spray the fluid in there too - but mine wont run unless the air inlet duct is in place. Its because the mass air flow sensor has to be feeling some air go by, or the system doesnt seem to fire the injectors.
And if yours is like mine, a small crack in that air inlet duct will really interfere with the engine starting nicely or idling.
I have a feeling it's a fuel problem, but I have nothig to back that up. I know the air flow sensor is attached to in air intake, and I think it needs to register for the engine to start. I suppose I could be looking at an electrical problem, and that some sensor is just not registering properly.
And if yours is like mine, a small crack in that air inlet duct will really interfere with the engine starting nicely or idling.
I have a feeling it's a fuel problem, but I have nothig to back that up. I know the air flow sensor is attached to in air intake, and I think it needs to register for the engine to start. I suppose I could be looking at an electrical problem, and that some sensor is just not registering properly.
denisond3
02-11-2008, 09:25 PM
You can do a compression check yourself. The best tool is a comp. tester that has a rubber hose on it with a screw-in fitting at the end. This screws into a spark plug hole. The cheaper type of comp. tester has a tapered rubber 'plug', and it has to be held firmly down onto the spark plug hole, while someone else cranks the engine over. With the tester that screws into the spark plug hole, you can crank the engine yourself. You dont need a 2nd person. I always let the engine crank over 5 times or 6 times - or at least always let it crank the same number of times, to get a good comparison.
The tester I had is just like the one at www.summitracing.com. Do a 'search' for their product # WMR-W80579. It cost $19 plus shipping.
But if your engine cranks over and sounds like it has compression - then you probably dont need to test it. Once you have heard an engine with either one cylinder having no compression, or all cylinders with no compression, you would be able to tell the difference for sure. With compression you would hear the unh-unh-unh-unh as the engine was cranked over by the start. With no compresssion you would hear a steady hummmmmmmm as the starter turned the engine - minus the changes in rotational noise due to the compression. And a normal engine would make this 'hmmmmmm' sound if you took all of its spark plugs out and cranked it over.
The tester I had is just like the one at www.summitracing.com. Do a 'search' for their product # WMR-W80579. It cost $19 plus shipping.
But if your engine cranks over and sounds like it has compression - then you probably dont need to test it. Once you have heard an engine with either one cylinder having no compression, or all cylinders with no compression, you would be able to tell the difference for sure. With compression you would hear the unh-unh-unh-unh as the engine was cranked over by the start. With no compresssion you would hear a steady hummmmmmmm as the starter turned the engine - minus the changes in rotational noise due to the compression. And a normal engine would make this 'hmmmmmm' sound if you took all of its spark plugs out and cranked it over.
natbur
02-12-2008, 09:46 AM
you would be able to tell the difference for sure. With compression you would hear the unh-unh-unh-unh as the engine was cranked over by the start. With no compresssion you would hear a steady hummmmmmmm as the starter turned the engine - minus the changes in rotational noise due to the compression. And a normal engine would make this 'hmmmmmm' sound if you took all of its spark plugs out and cranked it over.
Good to know, I'll pull the plugs when I get home, and if it sounds different I'll go track down a tester.
Good to know, I'll pull the plugs when I get home, and if it sounds different I'll go track down a tester.
natbur
02-13-2008, 04:31 PM
Good to know, I'll pull the plugs when I get home, and if it sounds different I'll go track down a tester.
Well, from the 'sound test', it would appear that I'm getting compression. I can clearly hear the pitch change as the engine attempt to turn over.
Well, from the 'sound test', it would appear that I'm getting compression. I can clearly hear the pitch change as the engine attempt to turn over.
Davescort97
02-13-2008, 10:26 PM
First things first. Unscrew the oil cap and look in there with a flashlight to see if the valve train is moving with someone turning it over. If you can see movement in there the timing belt isn't broken.
If you hear it going unh unh unh and have compression you should check to see if it's a fuel starvation problem. I spray starting fluid into the throttle body or pull the PCV hose loose from the intake and put a small amount of fuel in through there. If you do this and it fires up you have either a fuel pump problem or a plugged fuel filter. If you can hear the pump making a sound like Whirrrrrrr....after turning the key to on the pump is probably all right. To check to see if you have pressure there is a schrader valve (looks like a tire pressure valve) at the end of the fuel rail. Depress it to see if you have pressure. A small amount should squirt out. If you've got fuel pressure at the rail and spark and compression the problem may exist with the PCM or the CKP (crankshaft position sensor) or the harmonic balancer with the timing teeth may have slipped on the pulley causing it to fire at the wrong time. Denisond3 knows more about this than anyone. Hopefully he will be able to post again.
If you hear it going unh unh unh and have compression you should check to see if it's a fuel starvation problem. I spray starting fluid into the throttle body or pull the PCV hose loose from the intake and put a small amount of fuel in through there. If you do this and it fires up you have either a fuel pump problem or a plugged fuel filter. If you can hear the pump making a sound like Whirrrrrrr....after turning the key to on the pump is probably all right. To check to see if you have pressure there is a schrader valve (looks like a tire pressure valve) at the end of the fuel rail. Depress it to see if you have pressure. A small amount should squirt out. If you've got fuel pressure at the rail and spark and compression the problem may exist with the PCM or the CKP (crankshaft position sensor) or the harmonic balancer with the timing teeth may have slipped on the pulley causing it to fire at the wrong time. Denisond3 knows more about this than anyone. Hopefully he will be able to post again.
denisond3
02-14-2008, 02:46 PM
denisond3 is out of ideas. Be sure to try the starting fluid spray.
mightymoose_22
02-16-2008, 02:58 PM
Do you have fuel pressure? When you turn the key on can you hear the electric pump come on? You can also check for pressure by pressing the valve on the fuel rail.
natbur
02-19-2008, 03:24 PM
If you've got fuel pressure at the rail and spark and compression the problem may exist with the PCM or the CKP (crankshaft position sensor)
Is there a simple way of checking the crankshaft position sensor without having to pull it off. I actually have a new one, because I had intended to replace it shortly after the car first died($15 part and I figured it couldn't hurt), but couldn't find a way to get to it, and everything I read said that you have to remove the exhaust manifold to get to it. After finding the broken wire in the wiring harness leading to the cam sensor, I completely forgot about the crank sensor.
Is there a simple way of checking the crankshaft position sensor without having to pull it off. I actually have a new one, because I had intended to replace it shortly after the car first died($15 part and I figured it couldn't hurt), but couldn't find a way to get to it, and everything I read said that you have to remove the exhaust manifold to get to it. After finding the broken wire in the wiring harness leading to the cam sensor, I completely forgot about the crank sensor.
natbur
02-25-2008, 04:23 PM
Do you have fuel pressure? When you turn the key on can you hear the electric pump come on? You can also check for pressure by pressing the valve on the fuel rail.
Pressed the pin on the valve, got a decent squirt of fuel (sprayed about 18"), so I believe that the fuel pressure is fine.
Pressed the pin on the valve, got a decent squirt of fuel (sprayed about 18"), so I believe that the fuel pressure is fine.
natbur
02-25-2008, 04:27 PM
If you've got fuel pressure at the rail and spark and compression the problem may exist with the PCM or the CKP (crankshaft position sensor)
I know it uses a combination of the camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor to determine when to fire the plugs. I'm about 99% sure the cam sensor is fine (it's brand new) but I can't say the same for the crank sensor, because I havn't managed to find a way to remove it without dismantling large portions of my engine. If the cam sensor dies, the car relies on the crank sensor only. Does the opposite also hold true?
I know it uses a combination of the camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor to determine when to fire the plugs. I'm about 99% sure the cam sensor is fine (it's brand new) but I can't say the same for the crank sensor, because I havn't managed to find a way to remove it without dismantling large portions of my engine. If the cam sensor dies, the car relies on the crank sensor only. Does the opposite also hold true?
natbur
02-25-2008, 05:45 PM
Pulled the radiator to get to the Crank position sensor. Got it replaced with a new one, it was definatly having problems. The car still sounds the same though. I bring you two pieces of muti-media, a picture of the crank sensor and a audio clip of me trying to start the car.
http://www.natbur.com/junk/100_0970b.jpg
[/URL][URL="http://www.natbur.com/100_090b.jpg"] (http://www.natbur.com/100_0970b.jpg)
http://www.natbur.com/junk/car.mp3
http://www.natbur.com/junk/100_0970b.jpg
[/URL][URL="http://www.natbur.com/100_090b.jpg"] (http://www.natbur.com/100_0970b.jpg)
http://www.natbur.com/junk/car.mp3
AzTumbleweed
03-05-2008, 09:15 AM
There should not have been oil on your plugs. Better do a compression test.
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