help, 98 voyager dies out/looses power
chad millett
02-02-2008, 02:13 PM
My 98 Plymouth Voyager with the 3.0 engine dies out/looses power intermittently. You never know when its going to happen. It doesnt shut off completely it just wont go. It pops when you accelerate and wont rev up even in neutral. There is a large air sucking soung comming from the engine. It sounds like the air filter part is left off or something, but its not. One garage said by the conversation I had that it could be the fuel pump. I dont dare to go anywhere with it because you never know when its going to leave you stranded. It always runs good after it sits for a long time.
Please help!
Please help!
RIP
02-02-2008, 06:35 PM
Very well could be the pump but, what's this sucking sound all about? Can you hear it with it idling with the hood open. If so, track it down because a vacuum leak can create the same symptoms. If it will help, you can buy a mechanics stethoscope for $15-20 or you can make one from a short length of garden hose cupped to your ear. Be careful around the moving parts.
As for the pump, it's not unheard of to drive around with a fuel pressure gauge attached to monitor the pressure. You may even see decreased pressure sitting in your driveway. Should be near 50 psi. Could have sludge in your tank clogging the pump inlet. The only real way to fix that is to drop the tank and clean it. Short of that you could try a couple cans of fuel system cleaner in the tank.
As for the pump, it's not unheard of to drive around with a fuel pressure gauge attached to monitor the pressure. You may even see decreased pressure sitting in your driveway. Should be near 50 psi. Could have sludge in your tank clogging the pump inlet. The only real way to fix that is to drop the tank and clean it. Short of that you could try a couple cans of fuel system cleaner in the tank.
chad millett
02-02-2008, 08:00 PM
can you check the codes on a 98 without a scanner? I tried cycleing the key on three times. The engine light flashed the way the early 90s dodges did. I counted the blinks and I think it gave these codes: 12,43,51,and 55. I thought the newer vehicles that are OBD2 had a letter followed by 4 numbers.
RIP
02-03-2008, 03:45 AM
Yes you can. What you get when you do the key dance are termed MIL codes (Malfunction Indicator Light). These are the two digit codes you are seeing. These codes are what I call a peek at the systems. They will indicate in general terms what system may be causing the problem. Don't discount them. They are useful. OBDII or scanner or "P" codes are the 4 digit codes you are wondering about. They are preceded by the letter "P". These codes more precisely narrow down the problem.
Disregard 12 and 55. MIL code 43 indicates the system detected a failure in one of three primary coil circuits and/or a multiple or single misfire in cylinders 1 thru 4. A scanner will narrow that down to a specific "P" code for a coil or cylinder. Code 51 indicates A lean fuel/fuel air mixture has been detected. The code 43 could be causing the code 51. I'd fix the code 43 first then see if the code 51 comes back. Code 51 concerns the MAF or MAP sensor. I've heard of these causing some hesitation but not to the degree you're seeing.
If it comes back, here's a little more info. MIL code 51 equates to a P0171: http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/generic/p0171-system-too-lean-bank-1-oxygen-sensor.php
Autozone will connect a scanner and read your codes for free.
Disregard 12 and 55. MIL code 43 indicates the system detected a failure in one of three primary coil circuits and/or a multiple or single misfire in cylinders 1 thru 4. A scanner will narrow that down to a specific "P" code for a coil or cylinder. Code 51 indicates A lean fuel/fuel air mixture has been detected. The code 43 could be causing the code 51. I'd fix the code 43 first then see if the code 51 comes back. Code 51 concerns the MAF or MAP sensor. I've heard of these causing some hesitation but not to the degree you're seeing.
If it comes back, here's a little more info. MIL code 51 equates to a P0171: http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/generic/p0171-system-too-lean-bank-1-oxygen-sensor.php
Autozone will connect a scanner and read your codes for free.
chad millett
02-03-2008, 10:55 AM
I will take the van to Advance Auto to get a free scan. I think its going to end up being the fuel pump. The previous owner gave up on trying to figure it out. They did change the fuel filter and that made the malfunction happen less often. I think if it only lost a couple of cylinders it would still move. When it idles it sounds like its running on all cylinders until you try to accelerate.
Thank you for you info.
Thank you for you info.
RIP
02-04-2008, 12:06 AM
They can clear the codes with the scanner. Remind them. Ask if they have a fuel pressure gauge you can use.
tempfixit
02-04-2008, 05:55 AM
1 1/2 ago I installed a new Bosch fuel pump on a 95 3.3 Voyager. When running (just barely) I would hear a loud suction noise also. Fuel preesure was around 25PSI. Upon removal of pump I found that the pump was only about 1/2 full. Returned pump and reinstalled new one. All is fine.
chad millett
02-05-2008, 04:47 PM
I had the codes checked today. They were:
P0300 Randome/multiple cylinder misfire detected
P0171 Systam Too Lean (Bank 1)
P0300 Randome/multiple cylinder misfire detected
P0171 Systam Too Lean (Bank 1)
RIP
02-05-2008, 05:58 PM
chad millett
02-06-2008, 06:47 AM
This is what I read in the link that fits my issue the best because I also have the lean fuel code. Given all this information I still am unsure what my issue is becase my problem is randome and it doesnt happen very often. I dont want to replace things at randome so I am trying to narrow down what it could be. I will look over the mass air flow sensor and check the egr valve. Any personal opinions will be considered. Thanks again.
Random misfires that jump around from one cylinder to another (read: P030x codes) also will set a P0300 code. The underlying cause is often a lean fuel condition, which may be due to a vacuum leak in the intake (http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/generic/p0300-random-multiple-cylinder-misfire-detected.php#) manifold or unmetered air getting past the airflow sensor, or an EGR valve that is stuck open.
Random misfires that jump around from one cylinder to another (read: P030x codes) also will set a P0300 code. The underlying cause is often a lean fuel condition, which may be due to a vacuum leak in the intake (http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/generic/p0300-random-multiple-cylinder-misfire-detected.php#) manifold or unmetered air getting past the airflow sensor, or an EGR valve that is stuck open.
RIP
02-06-2008, 03:35 PM
Yup. Trick is to find the common denominator. I would let it ride a few weeks and try to find more clues like; is the load on the engine a factor meaning does it only happen when accelerating, many accessories on, climbing a hill, etc. Is weather a factor meaning rainy/snowy days etc. When it happens write down what was going on. How often? Every other time you drive it? Every forth time? Exactly when did it start? Any maintenance done just prior?
Intermittent problems are always the toughest to solve. Unfortunately there could be many causes and it will take time to narrow it down. It may come down to changing parts and hoping but, before that happens there is quite a bit to inspect and test. The links I sent will give you a starting point. As far as the codes go, the good news is many times when you get multiple codes, you fix one you fix them all.
Intermittent problems are always the toughest to solve. Unfortunately there could be many causes and it will take time to narrow it down. It may come down to changing parts and hoping but, before that happens there is quite a bit to inspect and test. The links I sent will give you a starting point. As far as the codes go, the good news is many times when you get multiple codes, you fix one you fix them all.
chad millett
02-06-2008, 04:38 PM
Thanks. Thats exactly what I thought. The previous owner said it happened more often the colder the weather got. Then they changed the fuel filter and it went so long before it acted up again they thought it was fixed. Then they went on a highway trip and it made a four hour trip but died out on the way back. It only happened to me once and I tried to drive 1/4 of a mile down the road and it acted up when I was spinning. I was climbing a snowy slight grade. The next day it was fine again.
RIP
02-06-2008, 06:01 PM
Based on just that info I would think, "crap in the tank". Then again it may or may not even be related. Just another thing to consider when you get around to fixing it. Do you know what fixed it when the previous owner had it die on his trip? Probably just "fixed itself"...of course.
chad millett
02-07-2008, 09:30 AM
Yes it just fixed itself. Thats how I got the van. The owner was fed up and planned on junking it so they gave it to me. I went two hours away to haul it home. All I had to pay was the storage fee at the garage it was towed to. They paid the tow charge. It started right up and drove onto the trailer. I got a flat on the trailer on the way back so I unloaded the van an hour away from home and my friend drove it here with no problems. I can get a used fuel pump for 45 dollars that includes the sending unit. I may try that. Then I will be able to see if there is crap in the tank. It looks pretty easy to take out. Nothing is in the way.
How do I tell if its flex-fuel? Thats the only thing I need to know, I guess, to get the right part.
How do I tell if its flex-fuel? Thats the only thing I need to know, I guess, to get the right part.
RIP
02-07-2008, 02:36 PM
Flex fuel? I think there should be a sticker or label on the gas cap or on the gas fill door. Ask a dealer if it's not there. They may want your VIN.
chad millett
03-06-2008, 08:52 AM
ok the van did it again but only for a min. then it fixed itself. I had the codes cleared but they came back before it acted up again. Its been a thousand miles before it acted up again. Should I change the fuel pump at this point?
RIP
03-06-2008, 03:10 PM
Yes. As always, no guarantees but, a pump makes the best sense right now. I would have the tank flushed too. Might waste a new pump if it sucks up any crud that may be in there. The pickup filter may give you a clue about crud in the tank.
jpb53
03-07-2008, 05:12 PM
The loud sucking noise that is being heard is probably the IAC going wide open when the computer is trying to keep the engine running. It can be quite loud sometimes depending on the conditions.
chad millett
03-27-2008, 09:30 PM
It was the fuel pump.
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