How can to get over Fwd
RACER D12
02-20-2003, 01:32 PM
What are some things you could do to a Fwd car to get better traction? Most of the cars I have been looking at are fwd and to me thats a big deal I would really prefer a RWD car but Im interested in what some of you have done how much its cost you and things like that to get your Fwd car better traction and weight transfer.
flylwsi
02-20-2003, 02:56 PM
what do you plan to do with the car?
fwd doesn't have horrible weight transfer or traction issues...
so what do you want to do and we can go from there?
fwd doesn't have horrible weight transfer or traction issues...
so what do you want to do and we can go from there?
RACER D12
02-20-2003, 03:53 PM
Well it would be my daily driver/weekend racer I would like to take it down to my local drag strip now and then and I would be doing a little organized street racing with it. From what I have heard Fwd cars problems with launching because during the launch all the weight goes to the back. Is this really a big problem or am I just making it out to be more than it is:confused:
flylwsi
02-20-2003, 05:59 PM
it's not as big as you're making it...
fwd cars, especially on the street, have the same traction as a rwd car... the power transfer is a different story, but you won't have any major issues...
it's simply difficult to get a fwd car as fast as a rwd car, mainly b/c of a lack of lowend power and what not...
getting a nice set of sticky tires will make a huge difference, but anything else (for the street/moderate track usage) is overkill...
you could go with drag coilovers (stifffff in the rear)
a LSD, some traction bars for the front, and all that good stuff, but it's overkill...
don't worry about it, just work on gettin more power and gettin it down... it's more the driver than the car... if you can launch good, don't worry...
fwd cars, especially on the street, have the same traction as a rwd car... the power transfer is a different story, but you won't have any major issues...
it's simply difficult to get a fwd car as fast as a rwd car, mainly b/c of a lack of lowend power and what not...
getting a nice set of sticky tires will make a huge difference, but anything else (for the street/moderate track usage) is overkill...
you could go with drag coilovers (stifffff in the rear)
a LSD, some traction bars for the front, and all that good stuff, but it's overkill...
don't worry about it, just work on gettin more power and gettin it down... it's more the driver than the car... if you can launch good, don't worry...
DemonZX
02-20-2003, 07:26 PM
SUSPENSION SUSPENSION SUSPENSION
If you are going to have enough power that you will have traction problems, it is all in the suspension.
If you are going to have enough power that you will have traction problems, it is all in the suspension.
BeEfCaKe
02-20-2003, 10:09 PM
Polygon
02-20-2003, 10:19 PM
I think he was saying overkill if you still plan to be streetable.
flylwsi
02-21-2003, 12:38 AM
that's exactly what i meant...
R1-rider
02-21-2003, 02:51 AM
Battery relocation and fuel cell are very popular to provide better f/r and l/r weight distribution, while also adding more safety to the driver. The lighter you can get your car the better, so stripping it would be very helpful as well.
Monkey-Magic-S15-R
02-21-2003, 07:03 AM
lighter flywheel, suspension new clutch new brakes, LSD, Strut braces.
I presume you want it to be able to turn at speed too?
I presume you want it to be able to turn at speed too?
fatninja19
02-21-2003, 01:24 PM
LSD is a big thing, and learn how to launch pro-style. My friend launches his near stock ITR at 7k rpm with just barely a chirp.
RACER D12
02-21-2003, 03:46 PM
What are the power transfer issues?
Cbass
02-21-2003, 05:09 PM
What is really relevant is how fast you want it to be. If you plan on putting down 300hp, that's pushing the limits of what FWD can do, launch wise.
flylwsi, many FWD cars, such a Volkswagens and Pontiacs have very nice low end torque. It's just a bad setup for drag racing, if you plan on going faster than 13s.
So RacerD12, how fast do you want it to be? If it's only 200hp, then stiffer springs and better tires all around will just about do the trick.
flylwsi, many FWD cars, such a Volkswagens and Pontiacs have very nice low end torque. It's just a bad setup for drag racing, if you plan on going faster than 13s.
So RacerD12, how fast do you want it to be? If it's only 200hp, then stiffer springs and better tires all around will just about do the trick.
RACER D12
02-21-2003, 07:38 PM
At least 300hp and I want to run 10s but if its still going to be my daily driver then 12s would do. So maybe Fwd isnt for me, guess no VR6 jetta:(
Layla's Keeper
02-21-2003, 08:30 PM
Nope, streetable 10sec Jetta's aren't in the cards without some sort of transplanted 4motion AWD set-up off of a RSI Beetle or Passat/A4. FF arrangements aren't really able to be sorted out for that sort of thing. Between axle hop, weight transfer, and the general fragility of transaxles and halfshafts, I couldn't even justify a 10sec FF drag car.
There's only one factory transaxle I know of that can fully take 300hp, and that's in the Northstar Cadillacs and I think a few other GM products, too.
Long story short, beyond 12secs, FF isn't practical for street and strip use in my estimation.
I've often thought that it might make for an interesting rally car to take a CRX, swap in a B20C out of an Integra, and then fabricate in the 4WD arrangement from a CRV. Low weight, short wheelbase, high engine speeds, and 4WD. SCCA ProRally open class here I come. But I digress...
There's only one factory transaxle I know of that can fully take 300hp, and that's in the Northstar Cadillacs and I think a few other GM products, too.
Long story short, beyond 12secs, FF isn't practical for street and strip use in my estimation.
I've often thought that it might make for an interesting rally car to take a CRX, swap in a B20C out of an Integra, and then fabricate in the 4WD arrangement from a CRV. Low weight, short wheelbase, high engine speeds, and 4WD. SCCA ProRally open class here I come. But I digress...
Cbass
02-21-2003, 11:30 PM
Well, I advise you get a FWD daily driver that will be good on gas, and work on a RWD project car for fun :)
You could get a RX7 and put a V8 in...
Then again, a swap you would probably appreciate more would be the Audi AYB or AAN 5 cylinder swap into a Porsche 924. Mild tuning, 350 hp... 2200lb car with a little lightening. Suspension parts, brakes, it's all available :D
You could get a RX7 and put a V8 in...
Then again, a swap you would probably appreciate more would be the Audi AYB or AAN 5 cylinder swap into a Porsche 924. Mild tuning, 350 hp... 2200lb car with a little lightening. Suspension parts, brakes, it's all available :D
Polygon
02-21-2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by Octagon
There's only one factory transaxle I know of that can fully take 300hp, and that's in the Northstar Cadillacs and I think a few other GM products, too.
You are forgetting the A-555 and the A-568.
There's only one factory transaxle I know of that can fully take 300hp, and that's in the Northstar Cadillacs and I think a few other GM products, too.
You are forgetting the A-555 and the A-568.
RACER D12
02-22-2003, 07:14 AM
Originally posted by Cbass
Well, I advise you get a FWD daily driver that will be good on gas, and work on a RWD project car for fun :)
You could get a RX7 and put a V8 in...
Then again, a swap you would probably appreciate more would be the Audi AYB or AAN 5 cylinder swap into a Porsche 924. Mild tuning, 350 hp... 2200lb car with a little lightening. Suspension parts, brakes, it's all available :D
I would but I cant afford two cars right now so I will just have to find the right Rwd car for me
Well, I advise you get a FWD daily driver that will be good on gas, and work on a RWD project car for fun :)
You could get a RX7 and put a V8 in...
Then again, a swap you would probably appreciate more would be the Audi AYB or AAN 5 cylinder swap into a Porsche 924. Mild tuning, 350 hp... 2200lb car with a little lightening. Suspension parts, brakes, it's all available :D
I would but I cant afford two cars right now so I will just have to find the right Rwd car for me
flylwsi
02-22-2003, 01:37 PM
um, yeah...
a vr6 jetta can more than take 300hp the transaxle won't have issues...
if you're street racing, you'll want low end, b/c once you're off the line, if you're in the lead, you should be able to stay there..
i know that there are cars with good low end, but they're not designed to be drag raced... and may not have gearing for the high end, or not the right gearing for quick acceleration...
it all depends on the car...
you could easily get a vr6 jetta and a www.eiptuning.com turbo kit... then you're flying...
or get an older jetta, mk2 and swap a 1.8t or vr6 into it...
www.overboost.com has an article on a mk2 gti that has a 1.8t in it with a mk3 jetta gt trans in it...
there are tons of easy crossovers and bolt ins, and any vw trans will bolt to any vw motor...
not nearly as complicated as hondas...
a vr6 jetta can more than take 300hp the transaxle won't have issues...
if you're street racing, you'll want low end, b/c once you're off the line, if you're in the lead, you should be able to stay there..
i know that there are cars with good low end, but they're not designed to be drag raced... and may not have gearing for the high end, or not the right gearing for quick acceleration...
it all depends on the car...
you could easily get a vr6 jetta and a www.eiptuning.com turbo kit... then you're flying...
or get an older jetta, mk2 and swap a 1.8t or vr6 into it...
www.overboost.com has an article on a mk2 gti that has a 1.8t in it with a mk3 jetta gt trans in it...
there are tons of easy crossovers and bolt ins, and any vw trans will bolt to any vw motor...
not nearly as complicated as hondas...
Self
02-22-2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by flylwsi
um, yeah...
a vr6 jetta can more than take 300hp the transaxle won't have issues...
So sure? My brother-in-law started having major transaxle problems on his turbo Jetta at 240whp:(
um, yeah...
a vr6 jetta can more than take 300hp the transaxle won't have issues...
So sure? My brother-in-law started having major transaxle problems on his turbo Jetta at 240whp:(
flylwsi
02-22-2003, 04:39 PM
vr6, not 1.8t... i'm not sure if they run the same trans, but i think they're different...
and if he's got 240hp, that's prolly at the wheels, which puts you much closer to 300 at the fly...
i've seen quite a few articles on big power'd vw's with stock tranny's so...
and if he's got 240hp, that's prolly at the wheels, which puts you much closer to 300 at the fly...
i've seen quite a few articles on big power'd vw's with stock tranny's so...
Cbass
02-22-2003, 04:57 PM
VW is like the German version of Toyota, usually torquey engines, and everything is overengineered and much stronger than it has to be.
I know of one little company that does Quattro/4Motion swaps into A platform cars, such as the Jetta/Golf/Beetle. They had a showcar a while back, using the drivetrain of an S4, with the suspension and brakes from a 996 TT. Only visual cues that gave it away were a small wing on the back, and 996 TurboTechnology wheels. It made about 500hp at the flywheel, btw.
My advice is get a Jetta MK2, they are great cars, make awesome daily drivers. If you want to go crazy on it, you can convert it to AWD. For $500 you can pick up a 924 in need of a little work, and turn it into a frightening fast car. :)
I know of one little company that does Quattro/4Motion swaps into A platform cars, such as the Jetta/Golf/Beetle. They had a showcar a while back, using the drivetrain of an S4, with the suspension and brakes from a 996 TT. Only visual cues that gave it away were a small wing on the back, and 996 TurboTechnology wheels. It made about 500hp at the flywheel, btw.
My advice is get a Jetta MK2, they are great cars, make awesome daily drivers. If you want to go crazy on it, you can convert it to AWD. For $500 you can pick up a 924 in need of a little work, and turn it into a frightening fast car. :)
RACER D12
02-22-2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by Cbass
VW is like the German version of Toyota, usually torquey engines, and everything is overengineered and much stronger than it has to be.
I know of one little company that does Quattro/4Motion swaps into A platform cars, such as the Jetta/Golf/Beetle. They had a showcar a while back, using the drivetrain of an S4, with the suspension and brakes from a 996 TT. Only visual cues that gave it away were a small wing on the back, and 996 TurboTechnology wheels. It made about 500hp at the flywheel, btw.
My advice is get a Jetta MK2, they are great cars, make awesome daily drivers. If you want to go crazy on it, you can convert it to AWD. For $500 you can pick up a 924 in need of a little work, and turn it into a frightening fast car. :)
Funny you should say that there is a 924 two towns over dont think it runs and it just sits their I think the guy would sell it(if you saw his house/apartment you can tell he needs cash) but I dont know if I want to do all that work. I mean I dont have a license yet so i guess I would have time to work on it but it might be two much for me. I should see if it runs or not but I dont think so it just sits there in his driveway with a flat rusting.
VW is like the German version of Toyota, usually torquey engines, and everything is overengineered and much stronger than it has to be.
I know of one little company that does Quattro/4Motion swaps into A platform cars, such as the Jetta/Golf/Beetle. They had a showcar a while back, using the drivetrain of an S4, with the suspension and brakes from a 996 TT. Only visual cues that gave it away were a small wing on the back, and 996 TurboTechnology wheels. It made about 500hp at the flywheel, btw.
My advice is get a Jetta MK2, they are great cars, make awesome daily drivers. If you want to go crazy on it, you can convert it to AWD. For $500 you can pick up a 924 in need of a little work, and turn it into a frightening fast car. :)
Funny you should say that there is a 924 two towns over dont think it runs and it just sits their I think the guy would sell it(if you saw his house/apartment you can tell he needs cash) but I dont know if I want to do all that work. I mean I dont have a license yet so i guess I would have time to work on it but it might be two much for me. I should see if it runs or not but I dont think so it just sits there in his driveway with a flat rusting.
Cbass
02-22-2003, 05:44 PM
Well, look into it!
There are usually two reasons a 924 is off the road, one would be problems with the fuel system, which can gum up if left sitting for a long time, or the synchro rings in the transmission are worn out.
Go have a look at it, they are very good cars, and very reliable. They have an Audi engine, and VW brakes, but Porsche suspension. This means all the parts that will wear out are cheap to replace, but all the parts that make it a blast to drive are Porsche :D
There are usually two reasons a 924 is off the road, one would be problems with the fuel system, which can gum up if left sitting for a long time, or the synchro rings in the transmission are worn out.
Go have a look at it, they are very good cars, and very reliable. They have an Audi engine, and VW brakes, but Porsche suspension. This means all the parts that will wear out are cheap to replace, but all the parts that make it a blast to drive are Porsche :D
flylwsi
02-22-2003, 07:08 PM
keep in mind that although the porsche is cheap, the replacement parts sure aren't...
mk2 vw all the way...
mk2 vw all the way...
Fliquer
02-22-2003, 10:04 PM
fwd cars, especially on the street, have the same traction as a rwd car... the power transfer is a different story, but you won't have any major issues...
Weight transfer is a very significant part of launching. When you accelerate, weight is transferred to the rear of the vehicle (off the front wheels and onto the rears). This is why RWD cars are inherently better than fwd cars when it comes to launching (all other factors being equal).
Those who said add a LSD, wider rubber, and upgrade the suspension, I agree with them.
Weight transfer is a very significant part of launching. When you accelerate, weight is transferred to the rear of the vehicle (off the front wheels and onto the rears). This is why RWD cars are inherently better than fwd cars when it comes to launching (all other factors being equal).
Those who said add a LSD, wider rubber, and upgrade the suspension, I agree with them.
RACER D12
02-23-2003, 06:39 PM
fwd cars, especially on the street, have the same traction as a rwd car... the power transfer is a different story, but you won't have any major issues...
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY POWER TRANSFER!!!
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY POWER TRANSFER!!!
Cbass
02-23-2003, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by flylwsi
keep in mind that although the porsche is cheap, the replacement parts sure aren't...
mk2 vw all the way...
Did you read my post? The parts that wear out are Audi/VW, making it cheap to run.
Power transfer would refer to one of two things, transferring power from front to back, as in a AWD car, or left to right. A LSD will optimize the power from left to right.
FWD is great for a daily driver, but not for a performance car. You can make a FWD car fast, true, but it takes more money than a RWD car, and it will have inherent problems you cannot work around.
Get the 924, you know you want to :devil:
keep in mind that although the porsche is cheap, the replacement parts sure aren't...
mk2 vw all the way...
Did you read my post? The parts that wear out are Audi/VW, making it cheap to run.
Power transfer would refer to one of two things, transferring power from front to back, as in a AWD car, or left to right. A LSD will optimize the power from left to right.
FWD is great for a daily driver, but not for a performance car. You can make a FWD car fast, true, but it takes more money than a RWD car, and it will have inherent problems you cannot work around.
Get the 924, you know you want to :devil:
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