Panoz Cars and Parts

Hi My name is Gary Jones and I own GaryJonesMotorsports in Augusta Ga.We are a 10,000sq Ft. full service race shop specializing in Vintage race car building, maintaining and track support.We are also a 2 time overall winner of the HSR Rolex Enduro Series and have totaled more than 70 wins in the last elevan years. I was involved in the liquidation of the Panoz School and Series cars buying and selling 17 of the cars ( and keeping 2 for myself ). I was also involved in liquidating there parts supply and purchased the body molds for the cars..I have a limited supply of parts for these cars including body parts and as we move into next racing season I will gather more information on the cars that I will be glad to share with people that purchased the cars from myself or my friend Hayes Harris at Wirewheel in Florida ( or directley from Road Atlanta ).I currentley have 6 race cars in my shop being prepaired for races next year with Historic Sportscar Racing www.hsrrace.com (http://www.hsrrace.com) .I will be checking this site about once a week to see what is going on with the cars and trying to add as much input as I can.Since we will be racing 6 cars I should be able to gather about 6 times as much information a lot faster than a single person.If you need any help with your car please feel free to E-mail me at [email protected] Please keep in mind that I am running a very busy business that requires me to be away for up to 5 days while we are at the races so If I don't get right back to you please be patient and I will awnser your E-mail. Thanks for your time and I think in the future you will find you made one very good investment for a open track or race car .......Gary

I was involved in the liquidation of the Panoz School and Series cars buying and selling 17 of the cars ( and keeping 2 for myself ). I was also involved in liquidating there parts supply and purchased the body molds for the cars..Hi Gary. I guess it's reasonable to assume that Panoz isn't going to support these cars (or build the race version) any longer? And parts are going to become scarce?

Gary;
It's great that you're so open and willing to share information gained from the cars you're running/preparring. I'm starved for info, so anything you post will be much appreciated.
I'm in need of a rear sway bar and all the attaching hardware. Did you come across one in the trailer full of stuff you carted off from Panoz? What will you want for it?
Jerry

Awesome... ours came from Hayes!

Squerly
There will be a ample supply of parts for the school cars and the series cars avaliable...I am already in the process of sorcing parts out to people that can reproduce the body parts and the front birdcage ( or radiator support ) which I am betting will be one of the most needed parts along with the front nose.With some 80 cars total school and series sold there has to be a way for people to get parts so I'm working as hard as I can to assure there are parts ready when people start hitting the track with them...Gary

Jerry
I was up there today and did find some rear sway bars but could not find any of the mounting hardware....I am going to look into having this stuff made and just keep in touch and I'll let you know how it's going...I will tell everyone now that one reasons the cars push so bad is the fact that they are sprung way to soft ( which was great for a school or beginner car but not good for a race car ).This coupled with the soft sidewall street tires which makes it more of a spring makes the cars really soft... As I get my cars out on the track and start to work with them I will be better suited to tell everyone what they need but for right now I'm guessing a 550 in the front and a 300 or a little less in the rear...I would bet that this spring rate with a stiff shock setting and all the cars need some of the camber taken out of the front end and this should be in the ball park...Just be sure you know that this is going to make the car looser ( and faster ) but it will be a little harder to stay on top of...Hope this helps
Gary

Gary;
Your posts are very informative.:cheers:
Thanks for getting back to me on the sway bar. Please put my name on one rear bar. Especially after you put together all the hardware. I appreciate you going the extra mile.
On the suspension, I was told by John Leverett of Panoz Engineering that the series cars ran 550# springs in the front and 350# in the rear. This coupled with Penske shocks seemed to be the starting point for the Series race cars. So your advice lines up perfectly with that info. I plan to go to slicks right away. Probably get a set of Hoosiers, as I have a lot of experience with them from running my Z06. That should stiffen it up nicely. I'm not after a loose car, just something that is closer to neutral in medium to fast corners.
Jerry

Jerry
I would say that John is on the money with the spring choice if you plan to run slicks ( which would be a good idea ).They tend to be a stiffer sidewall and have more bite so this should enable you to run the 350 in the rear and I think this should give you a car that is very neutral.Also the reason I said to run a stiff shock setting is because although the Koni is a good shock it is going to heat up and fade much quicker than the Penski so at the start of a run the car may seem a little like it's on top of the race track but after a few laps ( and that Koni heats up ) the car should settle in and have a much better feel.Everyone just PLEASE keep in mind that the information I'm giving is for someone who has some on track experence like Jerry and if you are just getting started just run the car the first few times like it came from the school...I DO NOT want to start selling body parts to anyone and I don't want anyone just starting out to be discouraged out of a great sport by busting there ass right from the start.....The really great thing about these cars is they have room for a lot of improvment in the horsepower / gearbox department to make them a really quick car if you survive the learning curve without tearing them up..Just for everyone's information I have all the spare transmissions and rear ends that the school had and am sorting through this stuff now to see what's good and what's not...In about a week I should have a list of spare parts that are avaliable.....I also have a couple of the Series cars that are for sale so if any of your friends are ready to hit the track please let me know......Gary

Gary;
The Eibach springs for the cars are 2.5" ID x 8" long? I thought you said something in this neighborhood when we talked, I just couldn't remember the exact dimensions.

Jerry
I was up there today and did find some rear sway bars but could not find any of the mounting hardware....

From the GTS parts manual (page 16 part #1a) the rear sway bar mounting hardware looks to be just a spherical rod end.

I need a rear sway bar too.:biggrin:

Keep me updated... I've been doing HPDEs in my prepp'd Z06 for 5 years and would like to get the car more neutral. Sounds like stiffer springs/shocks and a rear bar will be in order.

Please keep us updated if you put any packages together :)

Did you re-use the fuel pumps on the cars you converted to carb?

My fuel pump is working but it makes some aweful noises.

Gatorac
I used the original fuel pump but had to install a by-pass type fuel regulator to keep from having to much fuel pressure for the Holley....All the pumps make some noise but I have had to replace one on a car in the shop already and it did make a lot of noise, added to the fact that it wouldn't pump but about 5 psi max when I used the by-pass no matter how far I closed off the by-pass ( which tells me that if we would have ran the fuel injection out on the race track we would of had a problem at high rpm.It was enough pressure to let the car idle and drive around the parking lot )...I have some new fuel pumps if you need one...One of the big problems everyone is going to have in the future is a lack of a way to scan the cars for problems...This is the reason I changed all my cars over to a 4 barrell and and MSD..I had one car that ran perfect when we picked it up and also when we unloaded it at the shop.A week later it simpley would not fire up...After calling a friend of mine who is VERY GOOD with fuelinjection we simpley could not get any of 3 up to date scan tools that he owned to talk to the car ( or any of 3 other school cars we tried them on )...We finally exchanged a part at a time until the throttle position sensor turned out to be the problem...I was lucky because I had aquired the spare parts from the school and had the stuff to work with...I told all of my customers that they needed to convert there cars and none of them had a problem with it....By putting a performer RPM intake,a 650 RACE carb and a MSD box and distrbutor on the car it should add 30 to 40 HP and make the car much eaiser to work with...I am going to start a seprate thread deticated to nothing but problems found and solved for these cars for people to use as a tool and I hope this helps ( especially the entry leval guys ). So if everyone would use this thread for nothing but posting questions about issues and fixes it will help it stay kind of clean and easy to use for that purpose...Gary

Gary... what's the final verdict on the recommended oil and capacity? Looking throuh my logs it seems as if sometimes they run Mobil 1 and other times Quaker State... what do you recommend for oil? Synthetic or Organic? Weight? And how much! I have the standard 5.0 w/ an aftermarket road race pan.... it has two wells and two drain plugs.

Thanks,
Brian.

PS what trans fluid do you use and how much of that? My dif was just redone so that'll be good for the year, but I want to change the oil and trans for a fresh start.

I'm at home today and not at the shop so I can't tell you how much oil they hold...In ALL my race cars I run Amsoil and if you can't find that use Mobil one...A 15W50 should be a good weight but the car may run a little rough until the oil gets warm....If the weather is cool (70 or below )you can use a 10W40...I wouldn't use anything but a synthetic motor oil and that is also what I use in my Gear Boxes and Rear Ends...

Gary... what's the final verdict on the recommended oil and capacity? Looking throuh my logs it seems as if sometimes they run Mobil 1 and other times Quaker State... what do you recommend for oil? Synthetic or Organic? Weight? And how much! I have the standard 5.0 w/ an aftermarket road race pan.... it has two wells and two drain plugs.

Thanks,
Brian

Brian;
Here's some info I was given from Panoz engineering.

"7 quarts of oil recommend vr1 valvoline 20/50
No special b/s on the drain plug, drain both, copper gaskets are reusable, pan should be made by canton."

I'm pretty sure the Tremec tranny takes ATF. I've used synthethic for my Vette and had good results. I also remember that the differential takes 80/90 weight gear oil. And again I would recommend a Valvoline product or another that is synthetic.

Hope this helps and matches up with what Gary figures out tomorrow.

Thanks Gary... I run Amsoil in my Z06 (motor, trans, and rear) and have for years. I'll order some more for the panoz.

Brian;
Here's some info I was given from Panoz engineering.



I'm pretty sure the Tremec tranny takes ATF. I've used synthethic for my Vette and had good results.


The trans takes 2.5-2.75 qts of GM Syncromesh Fluid. This is available at your GM dealer. Or Pennzoil makes a Syncromesh fluid if you can find it. My local Napa ordered some in for me.

^ Thanks... the GTS race car manual oil change procedure includes draining the oil cooler each time.

Are you guys doing that? Or just the oil pan, then re-fill?

^ I finished reading the GTS manual... it specs out 9 quarts capacity. Approx 2 for the cooler and lines, 1ish for the filter pre-fill, and 6 for the pan.

Assuming you just drained the pan and swapped the filter that'd be about the 7 quarts that Panoz told Jerry... sound about right?

I don't want to overfill... Do you guys bother draining the cooler every oil change? I don't do this in my Z06, but the oil cooler doesn't hold as much as the Panoz.

I'm assuming the 5.0 school car has a similar pan ad cooler as the GTS? Sorry for all the questions, but I don't care to learn by mistake :D

Check your dipstick for "man-made" marks. DO NOT use the factory marks on the dipstick. They are not for the oil pan you have. I had no marks on my dipstick. When I pulled the oil pan off to repair the crack, I messed with the dipstick to mark it. I found it was hitting the bottom of the pan.:shakehead I trimmed it and put a mark on it where the oil level should be. According to Canton the pan will give you "a 7 qt oil capacity". I assume that is taking into account the qt in the filter.

The oil in the pan should go just over the middle section of the pan. That will give you an idea about where on the dipstick the full line should be. I'll know more about how much when I refill it in the next few days.

^ Thanks Jim... keep us updated. I'm going to swap the oil/trans fluids before I hit the track. The diff was re-sealed in August so it'll be good for the year.

Going to run VIR end of Feb w/ NASA and then again in the end of March.

Is filling the trans/diff the same as on my Z06 in that you fill until it just starts to come out of the fill hole?

The GTS manual says 2.5 quarts for the trans (but it's not a 3550) and 3 quarts for the Diff (assuming it's the same). I know 3 quarts doesn't fill the entire diff and it's not supposed to. Is the hole on the side of the diff a level hole? meaning you'd remove that and fill it until the fuild just comes out?

Just trying to get my ducks in a row before a full fluid swap.

Oh and my maintenance logs show 7 quarts for the oil each change, so they're not draining the cooler, just pan and fileter = 7 new quarts.

I've also found that it's had lots of different brands/types of fluids in it. I'm leaning toward running the following

10w40 or 15w50 Amsoil in the motor w/ a K&N filter (change every 3 HPDEs)
GM Synchromesh or similar in the gearbox
75w115 or 75w140 Severe duty gear oil in the rear end.

Is filling the trans/diff the same as on my Z06 in that you fill until it just starts to come out of the fill hole?


:grinyes: Put fluid in until it comes out your hole.:lol:

^ Haha... so just to clarify... the hole in the side of the differential is a level hole? So do I pour fluid in the top or side?

The way I'm seeing it I'd drain the fluid out the bottom, remove the side plug, then fill through the top where the vent is located until fluid comes out the side hole?

^ Haha... so just to clarify... the hole in the side of the differential is a level hole? So do I pour fluid in the top or side?

The way I'm seeing it I'd drain the fluid out the bottom, remove the side plug, then fill through the top where the vent is located until fluid comes out the side hole?

I put fluid into the top hole until it came out the one on the side.:spit:

^ Jim... do you have to remove the interior trans tunnel cover to change the fluid? I haven't looked at the gearbox closely.

^ Jim... do you have to remove the interior trans tunnel cover to change the fluid? I haven't looked at the gearbox closely.

Nope. Fill through the side hole with a fluid pump. You can buy the ones that screw on to the top of the oil bottle.

^ Cool... I have 3 of those :D

When I pulled the oil pan off to repair the crack, I messed with the dipstick to mark it. I found it was hitting the bottom of the pan.:shakehead I trimmed it and put a mark on it where the oil level should be. I'll know more about how much when I refill it in the next few days.

The pan holds 6 quarts. Drain the pan, put 6 quarts in and mark your dipstick. If your not draining the cooler, put 7 quarts in.

^ Cool... that's what my log book said :cheers:

Gary - I have a series car and have a few questions. In the not too distant past these cars were equipped with heavy duty dual disc clutches, ram i think and cable accuation. When i was at ra to pick up my car we had a chance to talk to a mechanic who had worked on these cars. His opinion was these clutches were overkill. My problem is the huge amount of pedal pressure required to accuate the clutch. Is very high pedal pressure normal? Is there any sort of adjustment for these clutches? Is switching to a different -lesser- clutch a reasonable option? Do you have any of the old style hydraulic bits and pieces around? I also want to put a passenger seat in my car. Do you have seats and mounting brackets available?

Thanks
Bruce

^ Yes the pedal pressure is very heavy... but that's how it goes w/ a manual clutch. I think on track you won't notice it. Hydraulic clutches suck for racing... it has beena PITA in my Z06 for years. I'm constantly swapping fluid, have all the lines wrapped etc etc.

Hi Gary. I guess it's reasonable to assume that Panoz isn't going to support these cars (or build the race version) any longer? And parts are going to become scarce?

Panoz is fully comitted to producing and supporting GTS race cars and any compatiple parts for the GTRA school and series cars.Panoz is working on several areas that will enhance the track days use of the car as well as continuing to build and improve GTS spec racers. Riley motorsports will be running a full season in SCCA GT 2 and has the full support of the factory in helping the owners of the Ex Panoz race school cars. This same support is also available from MJ2 racing in Portland Oregon as well as Drivers Source in Houston both of whom also campaign GTS cars on a weekly basis and know how to work with these chassis's.

Panoz is fully comitted to producing and supporting GTS race cars and any compatiple parts for the GTRA school and series cars.Panoz is working on several areas that will enhance the track days use of the car as well as continuing to build and improve GTS spec racers. Riley motorsports will be running a full season in SCCA GT 2 and has the full support of the factory in helping the owners of the Ex Panoz race school cars. This same support is also available from MJ2 racing in Portland Oregon as well as Drivers Source in Houston both of whom also campaign GTS cars on a weekly basis and know how to work with these chassis's.

Good the hear. What are the possibilities of an upgrade package for some of the school cars to bring them to the GTS specs and be race legal?

Good the hear. What are the possibilities of an upgrade package for some of the school cars to bring them to the GTS specs and be race legal?
It was my understanding that if your school car has the chassis reinforcements and the DOM rollbar tubing then the only difference is the motor, gearbox, diff cooler, ad shock/spring package? Am I wrong?

*Fuel Injected 302 (FMS shorties) vs. Carb'd 351 (headman headers etc.)
*Koni non-adjustable shocks vs. Penske adjustables
*350F/200R springs vs. 550F/350R springs
*Ford 9" w/ breather vs. Ford 9" w/ differential cooler
*School racing seat vs. Aluminum Kirkey or Ultrashield
*Tremec 3550 vs. TKO 600

TCCOUPE Out of the 6 Series cars I have in my shop all of them have the clutch from hell to push in...I haven't gotten into it yet but on the car I am keeping for myself there is no way I'm going to put up with it...All 5 of the Vintage Shelby Mustangs that run out of my race shop have a tripple disk clutch set up with a hyd release bearing set up and you can just about push the clutch pedal down with your hand....I know they tried some hyd.stuff on some of the cars and from my understanding had no success ( there was a lot of the stuff they had taken back off the cars laying around up there ) and I don't understand why...We run Quartermaster stuff in our cars and out of 5 cars racing an average of 8 races each last year we had no problems with any of them all season long...I would suspect they had a problem with cylinder sizeing or ratio's but don't know this for a fact....There is no reason a race car shouldn't work with a Hyd set up if it's done correctley...As I get into my car a little later I will try to shed some light on the subject... The first thing I am going to do to my series car is to dog ring the gears in the transmission so I won't have to use the clutch except when I am leaving or entering the pits...If you have ever raced with a Jerico trans like our mustangs have in them there simpley is no going back...............I offer a service to convert a Tremac trans to the dog ring set up like a Jerico but it's not cheap...The one thing it dose is make the transmission just about indestructable....Road-Racing with a Tremac has to be done with a very light touch because you simpley can not get in a hurry shifting one of them...I'll keep you posted on the clutch....Gary

Gary - the cars were originally built with hydraulic clutch systems. On the School cars there was a small slave cylinder that simply pulled against the bell housing. There was a machined bung that went in the hole for the clutch cable, and the slave cylinder fit into it with a rod going to the clutch fork. This tended to create some side loads on the piston since it couldn't pivot at the bell housing. So, when we built the Women's cars we used the same cylinder but mounted it to the chassis with a spherical bearing so it could be free to pull in a straight line. This fixed the side load problem, but the cylinders themselves were still problematic. I think it was a combination of the cylinders being on the lower quality side and being so close to the exhaust even though they were sheilded.

So, with all those problems on the first cars we decided to try a hydraulic throwout bearing when we started build the GTS cars. It was a McCleod unit that worked really nice on the test car. Unfortunately the banjo fittings where the inlet and bleed lines attached to the bearing gave a lot of trouble on customer cars and our test mule after they were in service for a little while. That was very frustrating due to having to pull the tranny to fix!

At some point in the last couple of years the school got tired of all the hydraulic problems and decided to go back to a basic cable. I only looked at thier implementation once, and was apalled at the ridiculous pedal effort. Whoever worked out the school's cable system didn't appear to understand how to get the motion ratio correct. I later took the school, and the clutch was miserable! It had about 1" of pedal travel to go from fully in to fully out. About the same time as the school was converting to cable is when we built the first batch of Penske edition cars, and they wanted to go with a cable. So, I worked out a billett quadrant similar to the aftermarket mustang stuff that would attach to the pedal that came with the pedal assemblies (with a little modification to the pedal). We also reinforced the firewall where the cable mounted so it wouldn't flex. Those cars had a nice pedal feel without being to heavy. I think they still have some issues with cables eventually wearing out, but not at an unrealistic lifespan.

If I were building a car for myself I would probably be inclined to go with a high quality hydraulic throwout bearing. I don't believe the McCleod was the best, but would try a tilton or Quartermaster... On the other hand the cable is quick, cheap, and easy to find whereever you are...

Does Anyone Know The Make And Model Of The Clutch Used In The Series Cars?

Thanks
Bruce

Gary - the cars were originally built with hydraulic clutch systems. On the School cars there was a small slave cylinder that simply pulled against the bell housing. There was a machined bung that went in the hole for the clutch cable, and the slave cylinder fit into it with a rod going to the clutch fork. This tended to create some side loads on the piston since it couldn't pivot at the bell housing. So, when we built the Women's cars we used the same cylinder but mounted it to the chassis with a spherical bearing so it could be free to pull in a straight line. This fixed the side load problem, but the cylinders themselves were still problematic. I think it was a combination of the cylinders being on the lower quality side and being so close to the exhaust even though they were sheilded.

So, with all those problems on the first cars we decided to try a hydraulic throwout bearing when we started build the GTS cars. It was a McCleod unit that worked really nice on the test car. Unfortunately the banjo fittings where the inlet and bleed lines attached to the bearing gave a lot of trouble on customer cars and our test mule after they were in service for a little while. That was very frustrating due to having to pull the tranny to fix!

At some point in the last couple of years the school got tired of all the hydraulic problems and decided to go back to a basic cable. I only looked at thier implementation once, and was apalled at the ridiculous pedal effort. Whoever worked out the school's cable system didn't appear to understand how to get the motion ratio correct. I later took the school, and the clutch was miserable! It had about 1" of pedal travel to go from fully in to fully out. About the same time as the school was converting to cable is when we built the first batch of Penske edition cars, and they wanted to go with a cable. So, I worked out a billett quadrant similar to the aftermarket mustang stuff that would attach to the pedal that came with the pedal assemblies (with a little modification to the pedal). We also reinforced the firewall where the cable mounted so it wouldn't flex. Those cars had a nice pedal feel without being to heavy. I think they still have some issues with cables eventually wearing out, but not at an unrealistic lifespan.

If I were building a car for myself I would probably be inclined to go with a high quality hydraulic throwout bearing. I don't believe the McCleod was the best, but would try a tilton or Quartermaster... On the other hand the cable is quick, cheap, and easy to find whereever you are...
where to find the better geometry clutch pedal? sounds like a great quick fix. my jd4320 clutch pushes a little easer. thanks

94 Panoz #7 I would agree with you 100% on all of the problems you stated...I would bet a lot of the problem was the quality of the McCloud parts VRS the Quartermaster...I buy a lot of used parts from the cup teams ( Jerico, quartermaster and so forth ) and I have never seen a McCloud part come out of any of the cup shops ...I'm not knocking McCloud for a street application but I think they are more orientated to street car quality and as Cobra 4B says in his post about his Zo6 ( and I know your know this ) there is a big diffrence in a street and race application....As an example I doubt the Corvettes they run at LeMans have anything less than a full blown race set up in them....I think any of you guys having trouble out there should contact 94 Panoz about helping you solve your problem because there really is no reason why the cable shouldn't work on all of the school cars if it's done right...From what I've seen they all have a street car style clutch just like a 5.0 Mustang has and my 94 Cobra street car also has a clutch pedal you can just about push in with your hand...As for the series cars they have a tilton or quartermaster ( I can't remember ) small single disk clutch in them...THE ONE THING you guy's with the series cars need to remember is DO NOT try to load your car on, or into your trailer by driving it....The clutch disk in these cars are VERY small and any kind of slipping the clutch ( even around in the pits ) is going to kill it in a hurry... Like I said before...I'm going to figure something out on my series car but it will be a few weeks...Gary

TCCoupe Sorry I got so distracted with the clutch problems I forgot to awnser your question about the seats and brackets...Yes I do have each of those and if you E-mail me direct [email protected] ( secound letter is a J ) I will be glad to give you a price...For those of you with old or worn seat belts in your car I have some of that stuff new also...As for a more direct awnser about your clutch ....I think the clutch is fine it's just a matter of working out the clutch pedal effort like we are talking about..Gary