All Motor or Turbo!

I'm buying a second D16A6 w/ tranny for $400, I want to rip it apart and build a powerful motor (lots of horsepower). Recommendations for which would be easier/cheaper/and still get best bang for the buck. Should I turbo the D16A6 or should I go all motor with high compression pistons and stuff. I plan on stripping the engine down, so......

Nick

turbo.

Between turbo and all-motor, turbo will get you way more horsepower for way cheaper.

go turboed man.

I dont know how you could micky mouse a turbo to be cheaper than all motor... But uhh, I would say go all motor then supercharge. Use high compression pistons get the rods and cam and chip for the ecu. Then slap a sc on it and run the 8 lbs of boost. This will be the most relaible FI setup aside from having low compression pistons and getting robbed for power.

So you're going with the Z6 now Nick? Sweet. That motor begs for a turbo. With some titanium rods and hi-comp pistons that thing would scream. Be sure to seal the head on really good (possibly some titanium head bolts?). I wish I could be in Boise to help out with the swap. Oh well, I'll be down for spring break to check it out.

P.S. I'll be getting my B16 in over the summer with my fire crew money, so I'll have to stomp you all over the Treasure Valley hehe j/k. I've finally decided to keep it as sleeper-ish as possible. Stock wheels, no body kit, a few dents in the hood hehe... the mustangs won't see it coming.

i hear that turbo setups will produce more power, but they will eventually break down while going all motor will last alot longer, is it true??

Yes! This is true! Think about it this way, spining parts= friction. And as we all know friction produeces what? Heat and Wear! So this is one of the reasons (Just one) I prefer blowers/superchargers to turbo's, do not mistake me for a turbo hater! I adore turbo's, just not on honda engines... Dont think I dont look at turbo honda's and say ick! I dont, Im like cool! You got alot more money to throw around than I do! If you look at the spec sheet for the old F1 twin turbo V6 honda used to run you will see alot of things honda never put into the engines that hit the domestic market. These things are but not limited to 1. cast iron sleeves 2. cast iron exaust porting job that goes from the valves to the exaust ports 3. Closed deck block... Im sure there are alot more things they did special for this race engine but the point is they werent built to be tortured with that kind of underhood and internal heat... Now on a turbo you have two spining aparatases that torque off each other, one side is spun by the exaust (the hot side) and one pushes air (cool side) Now when the hot side (turbine) is getting spun up real quick it torques on the cool side (compressor wheel) of the turbo. When the exaust is no longer pushing the turbine due to low Rpm's or up shifting the compresor wheel torques on the turbine side. This eventualy causes the the turbo to have more and more play until the compressor wheel or turbine wheel or both hit the housing, at this point the turbo is trash.
Why do I like supercharging? A supercharger while yes adding friction and heat will not break like a turbo and is not connected to your exause manifold. It has two roots (This is the JRSC roots style I speak of) that spin close to eachother but should never touch. The super will NOT add underhood heat but will increase the temp of inducted air by a MAXIMUM of 76 farenhiet. A turbo on the otherhand, the compressor is connected to the turbine... How hot is your header after a nice 30 minute drive? Touch it I dare ya! In fact for those of you who are gonna try and say "I have a turbo on my honda and its fine" Go for a 30 minute drive and put your hand on the Compressor side of your turbo, I'll give you $10 to teach you a valuable lesson. Now on to intercoolers, intercooling will help cool down the air going into your motor. Yes a intercooler will cool down the air coming from a turbo quite abit, but it will NEVER drop below ambiant temperature even if its cold outside... An intercooled JRSC that was tested at a local shop showed that it actualy droped the air temperature to 6 Ferenhiet below ambiant 5 was the goal. The number for 76 degreis comes from them leaving an engine running with the jrsc on it @ 5000 Rpms for 48 hours straight!
Now I close by saying Have you ever seen a turbo setup come with a 100,000 mile warranty? The supercharger does ;)

Does anybody know how much a JRSP runs? roughly? Also, what kind of horsepower can I get out of a D16A6 NA and Supercharged if I build it right. Money really isn't the issue.

Nick

If money isnt an issue put a b18c1 in there!!

Originally posted by 4G4D Store
Does anybody know how much a JRSP runs? roughly? Also, what kind of horsepower can I get out of a D16A6 NA and Supercharged if I build it right. Money really isn't the issue.

Nick

The JRSC kits usualy run about $3000. But I can order seprate parts which is what you wanna do. The JRSC fuel map trickery and airflow trickery sucks ass. At the point were you get the SC you want to have a hondata or AEM or Tec3<--- If you got $1800 to blow on a tec3 or a haltec this would be my first choices... So you want to build the motor and get it in first. I can get you the SC manifold and mounting brackets for $2000 give or take a couple hundred, Ill find out for ya because I was gonna look into it myself.

I would agree with you seth but all motor on a sohc isn't gonna get you that far as b-series. I would just go turbo with stock or a bit higher compression. Just get it tuned rite and you'll be all set.:)

Has anybody had any experience with the Jackson Racing Supercharger for the D16A6. I'm looking at something a little more reliable in the long run instead of a turbo. This isn't going to be my "race" car, I just want some power. I'm thinking of completely rebuilding the D16A6 and putting a JRSC on it - what do you guys think.

Nick

a couple of my friends HAD jrsc's on there cars, but they all broke, but these guys are pretty hardcore racers, so that jrsc was pretty abused. one was a 93 dx, and the other was a 5thgen with b18c1 both had jrsc's on them. the jrsc broke while they were redlining

IF the JRSC "Broke" why didnt they send it back? Its got a 100,000 mile warranty... Also the only way to "Break" a roots style super charger like the JRSC is to not change your oil every 35,000 miles... This causes particles to get into the sc and also causes the bearings for the roots to superheat which alows it to warp and eventualy hit the other root causing what you must be talking about... Because other then the pully breaking off (Highly unlikeley) thats pretty much the only way to break the SC... Sooo what your saying is you frends are hardcore RICERS not racers, because any moron (Such as myself) knows that you should always change your oil and use redline oil only... Now if you are racing you shit you should change it every two weeks.

Originally posted by seth 90DX/ZC
IF the JRSC "Broke" why didnt they send it back? Its got a 100,000 mile warranty... Also the only way to "Break" a roots style super charger like the JRSC is to not change your oil every 35,000 miles... This causes particles to get into the sc and also causes the bearings for the roots to superheat which alows it to warp and eventualy hit the other root causing what you must be talking about... Because other then the pully breaking off (Highly unlikeley) thats pretty much the only way to break the SC... Sooo what your saying is you frends are hardcore RICERS not racers, because any moron (Such as myself) knows that you should always change your oil and use redline oil only... Now if you are racing you shit you should change it every two weeks.

I hope you mean change your Oil every 3000 to 5000 miles. 35,000 is a long time to wait for an oil change..

True... But if you run that kind of shit oil in the SC in will break it for sure! I was being sarcastic dude ;)

Originally posted by 88CiViC_DX


I hope you mean change your Oil every 3000 to 5000 miles. 35,000 is a long time to wait for an oil change..

Ya got me! God damnit! If you keep this up people will figure out that I dont have a fucking clue what Im talkin about!

Can I stroke the B16 to a 2.3 or what is the max?

well if ur gonna want the engine to last why not do what i plan on doing when ur gonna actually run your car then crank the boost up but if your just lets say driving to work why have even 9 psi just crank the bitch down to even 2 or 3 fuck it thats what im going to do b/c by the time im done wityh my motor im not going to spend a shit load of money just to kill it very fast

With all-motor you can use high-compression pistons, bore & stroke the cylinders, and port and polish the head, but don't expect to get more than double your horsepower.

With a turbo, you can beef up the bottom-end with stronger rods, pistons, a cylinder brace and add a turbo kit and @ 21 psi you can expect to triple your horsepower.

Which one sounds better to you?

Or you can get an engine with 502 cubic inches (Thats 8.2 Liters) and make twelve times the horsepower for half the price...
Lets see, 800 Hp Naturaly Asperated 502 crate motor can be picked up for around $5000 or built for $4000 (Probably less reliable) VS spending $10,000 for the same amount of power from a honda and never being able to drive it... And your still not that fast because you have to wind the engine out to over 4000+ rpms before you see any power out of it even with a turbo @ 21 PSI...

As for volumetric efficiancy, dont even start, an 800 Hp pushrod puts out the same amount as an h22X4, so even though yes technicaly a 8.2 liter engine is about the same size (displacement) as four h22's but a 16 Cylinder engine should be able to smack the fuck out of a v8 even with 85mm bores... So whats up with that?

As far as all the power to weaght ratio bullshit... Give me a break, you think a 91 civic @ 2000 Lbs with 350 Whp (Generous) will beat a 69 Camaro SS @ 3400 Lbs with 700 whp (Not hard or all that expensive to obtain)

Keep in mind that the build cost of these different vehicles is very close... but in the end you have a buitifull classic hot rod that can pull a 9 second 1/4 mile and is totaly street legal, or a 10-11 second civic that wont pass smog and gets you pulled over all the time because it sounds like a 2 month old child screaming his/her head off...

wtf this threads like a year old!

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