VW Passat W8 vs. Rivals- advice for a potential customer

Well my dad is about to buy his next car- what he is looknig for is a European badge- as he feels the need to treat himself to something a little better than a Japanese motor. What he is looking for is a spacious, reliable and strong performing car with plenty of boot-space and something that will hold its value well (And cost under NZ$100,000)- also noteworthy is that he lives in New Zealand. He has asked me for some advice on the following cars-

Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 V6
Audi A6 2.4
BMW 525i SE
Jaguar S Type 2.5 SE
Lexus GS300 (Not Euro but worth considering
Mercedes Benz E240 Classic
Peugeot 6O7 3.0 V6
Renault Vel Statis (As Renault seem confident of an NZ launch)
Saab 9-5 Aero
VW Passat W8

What I want to know is which of all these cars would you choose- and what are the advantages disadvantages of each?

I told him to go with the Passat W8- but is there anything you guys know that I don't about the car- and any advantages that the other cars would hold over it?

Well, as much as I love driving the W8, it's still based on the somewhat outdated b5 chassis. It's a great highway car, but not much of a drivers car. It's also smaller than the other cars.

As much as I hate to admit it, the E-Klasse is the best overall car among them.
I would still pick the W8 though :D

I would pick the alfa romeo or the bmw a million times before the WV.

Get the Jag!

Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 V6 : my favourite, maybe the nicest and what an engine !!!
Audi A6 2.4 : why not... too classic
BMW 525i SE : good car but the new one is going to appear
Jaguar S Type 2.5 SE : too "Fordly" ;)
Lexus GS300 (Not Euro but worth considering) : just another copy of Mercedes, buy the original, not a Kia or a Hyundaï !
Mercedes Benz E240 Classic : nice car but expensive
Peugeot 6O7 3.0 V6 : very nice too, wait for the restyling of 2004-2005
Renault Vel Statis (As Renault seem confident of an NZ launch) : very original, but alas the 3.5 V6 is only available with an automatic gear. The 2.0 Turbo is excellent.
Saab 9-5 Aero : Cool, but becomes "old"
VW Passat W8 : I'm not convinced, this is old and not the same categroy as the competitors, it's more a competitor of the 406, 156, Laguna, Mondeo, X-Type, 75, etc. But this is a V8.... only advantage, but I do prefer the wonderful V6 of the Alfa Romeo ! ;)

So to me :
1st : Alfa 166
2nd : Peugeot 607
3rd : Mercedes E

Originally posted by Stefanel1
Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 V6 : my favourite, maybe the nicest and what an engine !!!
Audi A6 2.4 : why not... too classic
BMW 525i SE : good car but the new one is going to appear
Jaguar S Type 2.5 SE : too "Fordly" ;)
Lexus GS300 (Not Euro but worth considering) : just another copy of Mercedes, buy the original, not a Kia or a Hyundaï !
Mercedes Benz E240 Classic : nice car but expensive
Peugeot 6O7 3.0 V6 : very nice too, wait for the restyling of 2004-2005
Renault Vel Statis (As Renault seem confident of an NZ launch) : very original, but alas the 3.5 V6 is only available with an automatic gear. The 2.0 Turbo is excellent.
Saab 9-5 Aero : Cool, but becomes "old"
VW Passat W8 : I'm not convinced, this is old and not the same categroy as the competitors, it's more a competitor of the 406, 156, Laguna, Mondeo, X-Type, 75, etc. But this is a V8.... only advantage, but I do prefer the wonderful V6 of the Alfa Romeo ! ;)

So to me :
1st : Alfa 166
2nd : Peugeot 607
3rd : Mercedes E


LOL the Passat is actually a W8- the cylinders are aranged in a W and it is priced against the 5 series low end models- the only 8 cylinder cars that are priced below it are Holdens, Fords (Omitted for obvious reasons) and a Grand Cherokee V8 (Not after an SUV):D


and the Lexus is a Toyota ;) it's actually quite a good car.:D :D

I know it's a Toyota but by Kia or Hyundaï I meant, an asiatic car and not the best... ;)
The Passat is maybe a V8 (W8 indeed) but does it worth the V6 of the Alfa ??

Originally posted by Stefanel1
I know it's a Toyota but by Kia or Hyundaï I meant, an asiatic car and not the best... ;)
The Passat is maybe a V8 (W8 indeed) but does it worth the V6 of the Alfa ??

The car has about 40Kw more power and costs about NZ$10,000 more- the 4Motion is also handy because my dad is akeen skier and Jared (Moss1O6GTi) a keen Snowboarder. The VW is quite roomy as wel- the chassis isn't as good as the Alfa- but I don't think my dad is in the market for a drivers car. Apparently continental cars have 6-speed W8 Sedan in there (The only 6-speed W8 in NZ) for $105,000 so if he gets in quick enough........;)

Jimster, I've been pretty happy with my W8 Variant since I got it in December. I like sporty driving, but needed a fully well rounded car which could handle highway driving, foul weather, room for clients, business-looking, classy, good price, but still fast, handles decent, and great brakes. I also wanted all the luxury goods and features. In the US, the W8 is equipped to compete with the E class MB, BMW 5-series, Audi A6, Lexus GS series, etc. It is actually better equipped than most of these cars.

The E-class I think is the best overall mentioned here (the new one is a stunner)...the Alfa is very nice but we don't get it over here and I have never had the opportunity to drive it...The Audi won't give you anything the W8 won't and cost more...the Jaguar S-Type is just too soft and sedate for my taste...the Lexus GS doesn't do anything for me personally...Peugeot and Renault I can't comment on since we are also deprived of both of these brands in the states...and the Saab 9-5 has lost much of its appeal to me (I used to have a 9000) since GM began sharing the parts bin with them.

But price was the killer for me. To get a V8 in the BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Jaguar, or Audi in the states, your pricetag goes to $50,000 US. The W8 is equipped with more features and a great 8 cylinder engine for $38,000 US. PLUS, the car is typically sold well below the asking price, so they can be had for approximately $34,000 US. For me, I couldn't get an 8-cylinder and AWD in anything luxuriously equipped for under $45,000 NEGOTIATED except the W8, which has satisfied me immensely while leaving $12,000 in my pocket!

The car is sufficiently sporting, while not a sports car...handles very nicely, is nicely powerful, and the traction and AWD system are amazing. The brakes are borrowed from Audi's S4, and are quite powerful too.

I would give my recommendation for the W8 since the price is so excellent compared with other Euro V8s...ad I would also recommend the wonderful new E-class Mercedes, the Alfa (just based on looks and reputation), and the excellent BMW (despite a pending redesign, it is still a great driver's car, and they may be willing to negotiate since they know the new one is on the way.

Good luck!

zackiedawg, you car looks nice - that's the colour I'd have it in. Does it have the cross spoke rims?

The Passat Variant W8 cost at leat 50 000 € in France, why does it cost so "few" in the USA ? Are you sure of your US$38 000 ?!
Still, it's a nice car.

Swoxy,

Thank you. My car has the grey leather interior with the black exterior. I did not have the cross spoke rims...it came with the 5 twin-spoke standard wheels (on the US model) which I switched out for 17x8 inch Momo Quasar 2 rims; I like the Momo design, and also wanted a wider profile for the rims (the factory set were 16x7 inch).

Stephanel1,

Yes, the sticker price for US W8 models ranges from a low of about $38,500 US to a maximum of $40,590 US for the sport package equipped model with all available extras (we have everything except navigation system available in the US). Also, in the US the dealers are discounting the cars very much, because they are not selling too well over here. You can typically negotiate $3000-$4000 US off of the sticker price of the W8s. I managed to purchase my W8 Variant (sticker-price of $39,700) for $35,300. The other surprise was that my insurance did not go up from what I was paying each year for my 2000 Passat GLX V6 Sedan.

i noticed no one mentioned ANYTHING about the saab 9-5. although i am 17 and a little less knowledgable on cars, don't pass my comment by...

anyway i have a 2002 saab 9-5, automatic (....shut up). 185 hp and 210 lbs/ft torque or something like that. i can't say i've driven a lot of cars, maybe 10 - 15, but i'd have to say that though it is 185 hp, it feels like 250~. i have driven my mom's base jaguar s-type, which is 235 hp...nothing even CLOSE to the SAAB 9-5 LINEAR. though the hp may be less, it feels like so much more with the turbo. since aero is 250 hp, it may feel like who knows what. plus the value of saab is really really cheap for what you get, compared to the other european cars that is. at least check out the wagon aero, since the rack on top will hold skis/snowboards. and i'm not saying this cuz i'm biased, but SAABs have the BEST quality of all european cars. no, i don't mean as in material or luxuriousness (not that they are bad, i'm just saying that there might be better) i mean as in long life and stuff. they last a real frikken long time and don't break down often, that's a fact. also the safest european cars, or so they claim. SAABs are under-rated. please take a look, and ask ANY saab driver what they think about their saab. you've already heard from me, and i'm sure if you ask anyone else it'll start getting repetetive. the community of saab drivers is small, but i'm sure you'll find someone somewhere. and anyway, who wants to drive a car EVERYONE else has? kinda like communism eh? People Who Test Drive a Saab Usually Buy One. of course test them all first that is...

btw, i've touched 140 mph in my saab with 2000 rpm til redline :D :cool: and it was still gaining at an average speed

Indeed tha 9-5 is a good altenative. as the S80.

For the Passat W8's price, it's still quite low, even for the sticker price, 10 000 less than here !!!

Swoxy,

Here are a few more shots of my car which show the rims. Pleae note: I have not had a chance to lower the car, but I do plan on adding some sport springs which will reduce the ride height by roughly 1 inch or so.

http://pstr-m04.ygpweb.aol.com/data2/002/1B/02/8B/85/a4oZmEQ6kP4hWYmI2zxVJvQso3aWgdVT0180.jpg

http://pstr-m05.ygpweb.aol.com/data2/007/3D/5E/9B/10/0kVroqcPMLJRbgtKvigbIw6B+01JicOE0180.jpg

http://pstr-m03.ygpweb.aol.com/data2/00D/67/6E/21/FD/4Y5SNFwsF9L5smUZCJj-OX6ljo65lQZw0180.jpg

http://pstr-m03.ygpweb.aol.com/data2/002/0D/93/03/EF/7kUv8bHABEZwisZXgHBSt7zR8N6-y2Eh0180.jpg

http://pstr-m04.ygpweb.aol.com/data2/006/2F/D5/DD/1D/6Em3HHBLQDgu31pb-RA1C-F6ZgHmglgu0180.jpg

Side view, front facing right, on parking garage at sunset:
http://pstr-m05.ygpweb.aol.com/data2/003/00/AA/D0/4D/qR8Qo6U6wRyZDNBiA7UZgpq68LKuz9wM0180.jpg

HiKaRu, Saabs are nice, and the 9-5 is certainly a cut above the 9-3. I was a little disappointed at how much the 9-3 shows the Opel parts-bin sharing, and it felt significantly cheaper than the previous generation 900s. The 9-5 is still stronger, and feels better built. I had a 1986 Saab 9000 Turbo, which was very nice and fun to drive. The handlng was excellent - and though it suffered some serious Turbo lag (something the newer models don't have), it was still very fast. I had only 1 problem with the car during ownership and enjoyed it very much.

I hope you continue to enjoy your car...that is a wonderful vehicle to have at your age, so enjoy every moment of it! (when I was 17, I had a Hyundai Excel!).

I didn't realise it was a Wagon!

Yeah...my last Passat was the saloon...I loved it too, but I do alot of winter trips to the snow and ski regions (also why I like the AWD!), plus I like to go mountain biking, and didn't like having to hoist the bike onto the roof, or assemble some clunky rack on the back of my bootlid. The wagon allows me to just throw it in!

I had three SUVs before the sedan, so I had gotten used to that ability. :)

no mine is completely stock, except for some HID look-alikes. it's really not THAT expensive, it's about $38,000 USD after tax then we got some discount so it was like $33,000

Swoxy meant (I guess) that it was a quite expensive car for sby who is 17 ;) And I'm agree with him, plus, don't you have problems for the insurance ??!

I don't see the spoiler on the HikaRu's 9-5 pic...

oh no, mine doesn't have that :(
black linear, no options except automatic :(

i need a better car...

my school is like this anyway, there's a 15 year old kid that drives a 2003 M3 w/ tiptronic, yes 15, no typo, he doesn't even have his license and he's driving already :bloated: :bloated: :bloated:

:eek: ! In the UK we can't drive until we're 18!

Originally posted by Swoxy
:eek: ! In the UK we can't drive until we're 18!

your gov't has pwned you bit it might be bettar as there are alot of stupid drivers on our roads that are young...

-GTi-VR6_A3

Not many countries allowed people to drive before 18. They an in the USA because people are driving very slow so it's maybe less dangerous when an accident occures.

Why an automatic gear box on your 9-5 ??? .... nothing worth a manual.
A 15 years old guy driving an M3 ?.... is it his own BMW ? strange !

Originally posted by Stefanel1
Not many countries allowed people to drive before 18. They an in the USA because people are driving very slow so it's maybe less dangerous when an accident occures.


hahah thats funny. the limits do not mean people drive slow. in montana in the day time there are no speed limits. most of the long freeways in california are 70. and people drive like 110.

-GTi-VR6_A3

I agree with the Europeans here. We do drive fairly slow as a country. Speed limits are low, and training for a license is a joke. That doesn't mean some people don't go fast here...many do and mostly the kids...but they aren't sufficiently trained in high speed control and maneuverability to control their vehicle. And the rest of the population, especially the older folks, drive especially slow. Plus, our neighborhood roads have speed limits set as low as 25 or 35 MPH.

Most European countries require very lengthy and hard written tests, completion of driving courses, and very in-depth road tests to qualify for a license. Do you know what I did to get my driver's license at 15 years old in Florida? I answered 50 questions (as simple as "what does a double yellow line in the center of a road mean?") of which I was allowed to miss up to 5...and then I got in my mother's car, and drove around the perimeter of a strip-mall parking lot at under 30 MPH showing that I knew where the brakes and gas were. I then wrapped the driving portion of the test up with a parallel parking maneuver and a u-turn. It toook 2 hours total from start to end. That was it! Here's your license!

No wonder by 16 I had totalled my Honda Prelude. Since then, I took courses in Defensive Driving, enrolled in a race driving program, and took several manufacturer training and control courses to learn how to control a drift, drive on ice, reel in a fishtail, and turn in low traction conditions using only the throttle. I consider myself a decent driver now - at least on a par with the typical European driver. But I know what types of drivers are on the road because of our horrible and meager requirements for a license in the U.S.!

But believe me, it doesn't always slow us down. The kids still hop into a vehicle and feel invincible...they are the most common age class to suffer accidents due to high speeds or loss of control, especially when you put them on the South Florida roads with the 94 year-old ladies in 3 ton Cadillacs driving 30 miles per hour!

slow? let me show you a picture i took

http://chink.onestop.net/SAAB140mph.jpg

and yes, he owns the m3. his dad bought it for him.

Originally posted by HikaRu
slow? let me show you a picture i took


Are you proud of that? Seriously, how long have you had your license? :rolleyes:

no, i think it's quite obvious that i was countering another statement, otherwise i'd have posted it somewhere else on automotiveforums? it's only logic, use your brain and you will find out how stupid your comment was

and yes, i agree with zackiedawg

Everybody can drive to the max speed of his car, and many people did it at least once.
The average speed is another thing. And when I went in the States, I really had the impression that people were driving very slow. Even if, of course some people drive faster.
And the example of zackiedawg is very good : in Europe if you drive too slow, you'll be flash or horned by the other drivers because it's dangerous. In the States, no.

The driving licence is not enough good in Europe (or at least in France) but it's (I agree with Zackie) better than in the USA.
But we have other problems mainly the alcool which is a terrible thing that kills many people on the roads here. I've too many friends coming back from friends or party drunk in their car. We don't realize.

Finally, the most important is the average speed in a country (when we're considering if people are driving slow or not), not for example little cars or very old BMW driving at 300 kmh with NOS !
The driving of "Mr. Evreybody" is more realistic.

Having a 9-5 Aero and a 9-5SE Wagon, I would get a 9-5 Aero wagon. These cars are very fast and very safe and in wagon form are extremely utilitarian and hold vast amounts of stuff. The wagon is better balanced than the sedan, has a better ride, is safer, better executed with a flat floor when the rear seats are folded down, better rear headrests, and only a tad slower and a tad less fuel efficient. The 9-5 wagon is a gem and in Aero form can't be beat.

Alot of these cars are great, but some aren't. No offence to France, but the Vel Satis isn't a good car. Sorry.. See that episode on Top Gear? Proves my point.. And it looks weird :confused: The 607 is a special car, huge space inside, but doesn't give me the luxurious feel I would like to have...

I wouldn't go for the Passat. Here (in Norway) its just a mainstream car, and not a prestige car at all, although not often with a W8 The engine is great, though... Seems like every second family has one here (passat, not w8), and although its one of the best middle-class cars on the market, I wouldn't buy one with a W8.. there are more exciting options. Here it costs US$130 000!!

The A6 is a very nice car, and looks absolutely stunning with cool rims and tinted windows and the right colour.. The interior is also very good, so is the quality. Only thing is that I feel it lacks a little personality. A little cold, if you like.. Just a bit boring, but none the less a great car!

I don't really like the 5-series. Really good car to drive, but everyone has it, and the interior look sooo dated! The exterior is a beauty though. No cupholders, though :p The new one, I don't like.. Its weird, and cold.. oh no!

My pick of the bunch is the Saab 9-5. It's boot is really spacious, whether you take the Sedan or the Estate (wagon)! Swedens largest insurance company rated it to the safest car ever, and if every person would drive a Saab, there would be 40% less death injuries on the road.

Its interior is great as well, and especially the seats. These you can get ventilated, so there comes fresh cold air through the leather seats so you won't sweat. The space behind is also very good, comfort is at top as well, and it isn't any smaller than the A6 or 5-series.

You get ACC (automatic climate control) so that the driver and passengers can get two different temperatures, and the glovebox can be used as a refrigirator, as the temperature is cooled by the aircon to a temp of 3-8 celcius.. The audio system is really good as well, made by Harmann Kardon, only minus is that there is no cd-changer except for in the boot. The 2003 models can get delivered with the new Automatic Sentronic, with F1 shifting at the steering wheel. Although not as quick as an automatic, it's really good for the comfort.

The engine delivers a 350Nm at just 1900rpm, compared to the W8's 370Nm at 2750rpm, alas- the engine delivers alot of power from the beginning of the register, unlike many other cars. The reason is the Turbo. Since the power is delivered through the front wheels, expect a little torque steer, but its not like the Saab 900 Cabrio!

The thing with Saab is that is has personality, and is special. Also, it is very fun to drive. I've read comparison tests Saab/Audi, Saab/Volvo and so on, where the competitors have equal/little better comfort (the comfort in Saab 9-5 isn't bad at all, just maybe not as good as the A6) but the Saab has been the most fun and sporty car to drive. If you just want to be lazy just get a chair.. :D

Saab owners always come back for more, and once you've had a Saab, you won't want another brand. Research prooves that Saab owners are the most satisfied owners, just after Toyota and Honda... Audi owners are at average, Saab at 18% over average.. Also, only 8% of Saab owners have decided that they won't have another Saab next time. This is the highest at the research. (NAF- sort of JD.Powers, which also gave the Saab 9-5 top rating, think it was 2001)

>Edonis : The Vel Satis isn't a good car !!! :D have you ever driven or at least been a passenger in this car ? I don't think so. The look is very original, and you can dislike, that's another thing. But considering the comfort, inside space and the handling, nothing worth a Vel Satis. And it's luxurious.

"if every person would drive a Saab, there would be 40% less death injuries on the road."
mhhhhh interesting :D :D sorry but if every boday had a Vel Satis, there would be less injured or killed people, but it doesn't mean something, sorry. And all these new cars in this category are very safe (at least 4 stars at the EuroNcap tests and even 5 stars for the new E Class and the Vel Satis).

"Its interior is great as well, and especially the seats. These you can get ventilated, so there comes fresh cold air through the leather seats so you won't sweat. The space behind is also very good, comfort is at top as well, and it isn't any smaller than the A6 or 5-series. "
Seats are well indeed, but not really better than in the other cars. Seats ventilated : good point indeed. The space behind is not a reference in a 5 Series ! it's the smaller with the 166 !

"You get ACC (automatic climate control) so that the driver and passengers can get two different temperatures, and the glovebox can be used as a refrigirator, as the temperature is cooled by the aircon to a temp of 3-8 celcius.. The audio system is really good as well, made by Harmann Kardon, only minus is that there is no cd-changer except for in the boot"
AAC with separate control are on almost all these cars, in some you can even controll the air conditionning from behind. Harman & Kardon : good make, as on the other cars (Cabasse, Bose, etc.)

The 9-5 has caracter indeed. More funny than the A6 but I'm not sure compared with a 5 Séries.

Though I have to say that the 9-5 is a very good car, I'm not saying the contrary but the other cars are at least as good. In this category it's more a feeling for a against a car. You'll prefer one make or another but that's rarely objective. The Audi, BMW and Mercedes are more expensive than the Peugeot, Alfa Romeo, Saab, VW and Renault because the three german makes have a very good reputation in this category and we must conceed that the built quality inside is very good.

I'd personnaly get a 166, a 607 or the new 5 Series but that's only my opinion which is not objective ;)

Originally posted by edonis
The engine delivers a 350Nm at just 1900rpm, compared to the W8's 370Nm at 2750rpm, alas- the engine delivers alot of power from the beginning of the register, unlike many other cars.


Well, that's the 3.0 turbo diesel engine, and just like all other turbo diesel engine, you have more torque at lower rpms.
You can get the Passat with a 2.5 TDi engine, delivering 310nm at 1500rpm. as opposed to the Saab's 350nm at 1800 rpm.

You're correct, I've never even sat foot in a Vel Satis, nor have I actually seen one in real life.. However, I have seen and read reviews on it, and it isn't all that positive. Almost all french cars are comfy, but the handling of the Vel Satis isn't as it should be.. As for the looks, I can see how some might like it, although I seriously don't..

The seats are actually better in Saab than in many other makes, I've noticed.. Many reviewers and testers always refer to the good seats of Saab's and Volvo's..

The thing with the ACC is that it is standard, but in a lot of cars its on the options list..

"The 9-5 has caracter indeed. More funny than the A6 but I'm not sure compared with a 5 Séries" I think the Saab is more fun than the 5-series, although I do admit the 5-series has a better chassis and better dynamics, but the Saab's turbo's are really great since you get the power at low rpm's..

Here the Audi is priced very close to the Saab, only thing is that Audi's get delivered with larger engines so the price can go higher up than of the Saabs.

My father is buying a new car within this year or so, some estate for around $60 000, meaning that the Merc is too pricey.. Some cars he's considering is the A6 Avant 1,8t, Saab 9-5 Vector Estate, BMW 520i Touring and the Volvo V70. I'm hoping for the Saab, after taking a test drive in it last weekend, I seroulsy keep dreaming about it.. The other cars are really good, but its the character and personality of the Saab that I love..

Well it looks like my dad'll be going for the W8- US$50,000 for the top spec model, The NZ AA-Autocar Car of the Year 2002 award- as well as the confidence inspiring fact that VW NZ have sold 70 already (Good for residuals) is tipping him to the W8 :sun:

An A6 1.8t or a 520i Touring costs USK$40 in France, is it 60k in Sweden ????? !

Sorry but the handling of a Vel Satis is very good. And for the styling, be carefull : the first pics I saw about this car were awfull but when I saw it on the road, I wasn't in love with it but I was less chocked. And I'm going to get accustomed with it ;)

AC optional ? on a Twingo maybe but it's standard on all cars of this category and even on two category below (Mégane, 307, Golf, Leon, 147, Stilo, Civic, etc.).

No, I live in Norway, and it's here it costs Us$60k. Sweden is cheeeaaaap, half the price, almost.. :mad:

As for the Vel Satis, it was ranked as one of the top 10 ugly cars in CAR magazine (But so was the Enzo, the Cayenne, the 7-series, but also the Multipla and so on) If you read reviews on the Vel Satis, you'll see that its handling isn't as good as its rivals. I've never driven, nor seen one, so I'm just taking WhatCar?, TopGear, and CAR magazine's word for it.

Just take a look at this, I know it's from 2001, but still..

In reverse order:

10. Vauxhall Omega (55%)
9. Peugeot 607 (57%)
8. Renault Vel Satis (62%)
7. BMW 7-Series (67%)
Suprising result - basically it was marked down on being too clever for its own good. Also marked down on Style too.
6. Audi A6 (68%)
5. Saab 9-5 (71%)
4. VW Phaeton (72%)
3. Mercedes E-class (76%)
2. Mercedes S-class (77%)
Suprising again - I thought everyone thought this was the exec car.
1. BMW 5-Series (79%)
No denying I was pleased that the 5-Series won !! and it did last time too:
Men & Motors Top Ten Autos 2001

Crap, 2002! Sorry, my bad!!! Apologies!

Originally posted by edonis
Just take a look at this, I know it's from 2001, but still..

In reverse order:

10. Vauxhall Omega (55%)
9. Peugeot 607 (57%)
8. Renault Vel Satis (62%)
7. BMW 7-Series (67%)
Suprising result - basically it was marked down on being too clever for its own good. Also marked down on Style too.
6. Audi A6 (68%)
5. Saab 9-5 (71%)
4. VW Phaeton (72%)
3. Mercedes E-class (76%)
2. Mercedes S-class (77%)
Suprising again - I thought everyone thought this was the exec car.
1. BMW 5-Series (79%)
No denying I was pleased that the 5-Series won !! and it did last time too:
Men & Motors Top Ten Autos 2001


Is that a customer satisfaction survey????:confused:

Nope.. this is an extract from Men&Motors, where they were to pick their favourite "executive motors".

This is from AutoIndex2003, a customer satisfaction survey on how they are satisfied with their car:

The percent is over or under average.

Over average:

Toyota 40%
Saab 28%
Bmw 27%
Volvo 20%
Honda 20%
Mercedes 18%
Audi 14%
Nissan 10%
Mitsubishi 5%
Mazda 2%
VW 1%

Under average:

Peugot -3%
Skoda -5%
Renault -8%
Citroen -11%
Ford (Eu) -12%
Hyundai -26%
Opel/Vauxhall -27%
Fiat -27%
Chrysler -48% (this is seriously a CRAPPY car)

This is how satisfied they are combined (The satisfaction of the car itself stands for 50%, satisfaction with the dealer and buying-process counts for 25%, as does the satisfaction with the service and repairs)

Over average:

Toyota 38%
Honda 18%
Saab 18%
Mitsubishi 13%
Nissan 10%
Volvo 10%
BMW 8%
Mazda 7%
Mercedes 4%
Peugot 3%
Audi 1%

Under average:

Ford(EU) -1%
Hyundai -4%
Citroen -5%
Renault -11%
Skoda -11%
Opel -12%
VW -13%
Fiat -25%
Chrysler -40% (Again, Chrysler at the bottom.. why does anyone buy this shit?)

>Edonis : if the Enzo is ugly for your "magazine" (as the Vel Satis), I think it's not a so good magazine :D

I never said the Enzo was ugly.. Its not beautiful, but I still love it..!:ylsuper

My dad just bought a 530....what an amazing car...go with the 525i

good car the 530i. Manual I hope ;)
Why didn't he wait the new 5 series ?

no its auto :(

New 530 is :apuke:

You don't like the new 5 ?!! ... mhhh, quite original, but nice to me. ;)

The new 5-series is a $50,000 car with tail lights from a $10,000 Kia Rio :apuke:



Chris Bangle suxx0rs at teh design shop

I don't really like the 7 series (especially inside) but I do like the Z4 and 5 series.... I'm maybe younger of spirit :D :D ;) just kidding ;)

I'm really quite sad that BMW made the new 5-series so f***** up. I just cant get my self to like it. The interior just seems so cold and I'm going to say this straight out- UGLY. The "old" 5-series is much nicer to look at, and if I were to buy a 5-series today, I think I'd rather have the old one until I can get used to the new one.

Ps. Stefaniel: Renault is considering to drop the Vel Satis, if you didn't know, due to low sales, next year...

I already heard about this drop of the Vel Satis, they did it for the Avantime but they won't do it for the Vel Satis which will be a little bit restyled. .... You don't seem to like the too original cars :D (Vel Satis, new 5 Séries e.g) !

Actually, you're wrong :) I do like somewhat special cars. But I also like a nice design, which I can't say the Vel Satis has. Sorry. Renault and Peugot shouldn't have tried to enter the luxury sedan market with 607 and the Vel Satis, but they are much better at making smaller, middle-class cars. Peugot is doing really well with the 206 and 307, 406 is getting old, but the coupe is really a looker.. Hope they'll make the RC/Spades (or whatever it was called) concept into carCan't say the same for Renault, though.. I'd take a Spyder, and maybe I'd have a Laguna, and restyled the front :p

Anyways, t'is ain't the point.. Point is I do approve of original cars, but there goes a limit somewhere. The Avantime was too far over the limit too look back at it, but nice of Renault to try so save Matra..

I don't agree with your statement about the luxury brand of Peugeot and Renault. Or do you consider that Peugeot, Citroën, Renault Volkswagen, Toyota and this kind of "generalist" makers (opposate to the "specialists as BMW or Audi for example) would make "big cars" of the size of the 607, Vel Satis, C6, Phaeton, etc. ?
But that's clear that many buyers of a big sedan which costs more than 35 000 € want to have the star or the propeller on their car... even if it costs a little bit more.
The Phaeton, the 607, the Safrane, the Oméga etc. will always sell less than the specialists. For Saab, Alfa Romeo and Volvo, they are neither specialists nor generalist.. in the middle. ;)

Originally posted by Stefanel1
I don't agree with your statement about the luxury brand of Peugeot and Renault. Or do you consider that Peugeot, Citroën, Renault Volkswagen, Toyota and this kind of "generalist" makers (opposate to the "specialists as BMW or Audi for example) would make "big cars" of the size of the 607, Vel Satis, C6, Phaeton, etc. ?
But that's clear that many buyers of a big sedan which costs more than 35 000 € want to have the star or the propeller on their car... even if it costs a little bit more.
The Phaeton, the 607, the Safrane, the Oméga etc. will always sell less than the specialists. For Saab, Alfa Romeo and Volvo, they are neither specialists nor generalist.. in the middle. ;)

I perfer to put Alfa Romeo as generalists- who offer something a little more exciting than the norm:)

MMMhh, not very simple to classify Alfa but they are (to me) the Italian BMW ;)

All makers are of coarse welcome to make big cars, but when they try to make it luxurious and stick a high price tag on it, its most often a flop.. Nissan Maxima, Mazda Xedos 9 are also examples of this.. No status, no luxury, no feel.. just BORING big cars. The Vel Satis may offer a slightly more exclusive feel, but none the less, they're better off making middleclass cars.

For me, Alfa romeo are very neat cars, and they have a special image which doesn't have any bad sides. Here, Bmw's (especially 3-series) are known as Kebab-racers/trolleys and so on, Merc is Taxi's, but Alfa doesn't have that sort of "rumour", quite simply because no one dislikes Alfa's.. However, I'm appaled that they don't have a good A6-contender, the 166 is getting old, and I don't like the looks of it (SORRY).

THe headligths are so small and not proportioned right, and so on. But I'm glad they're making a new one now :)