Infiniti Q45 vs. Lexus LS430

They compared these "Sensational sedans" in the July Issue.
The new Q45
http://www.automotiveforums.com/img/members/rtq45.jpg
http://www.automotiveforums.com/img/members/rtq45b.jpg

Lexus LS430
http://www.automotiveforums.com/img/members/rtls430.jpg
http://www.automotiveforums.com/img/members/rtls430b.jpg

Here are the factors they considered:

Performance, where the new Q got 6.5 second 0-60 time vs. LS430's 6.4. The Q45 is about 80 lb. lighter and has 340hp versus LS430's 290hp. They said it must be the gearing that made the Q slower. But they basically made a point that both of these cars are the cream of the crop and 1/10 of a second really doesnt make any difference.

Comfort, both of these cars are again, cream of the crop in this category, the engine sound of either car can not be heard at a dead stop or slow speeds. Amazingly, at speeds in excess of 75mph, the Q isolated wind noise better than the LS [they think because of the swoopier profile] but the Lexus controlled road noise better [I am guessing because of the difference in tires-
Q45: P245/45R-18
LS430: 225/55R-17]

Styling, the LS430 is defined by the classic lines of a European "saloon," a three-box theme that's elegant and unassumaning. Whereas, the new Q shouts "Look at me!" They noted that every design aspect of the new Q looks fresh and original except that the rounded taillights remind them of the Audi A6's. The editors seemed to like the Q's styling, but they said only time will tell if it's a winner.

Value, there was no contest at all here: Q45 beats the LS by a big margin : Over $5,000

Conclusion, what? Already? :)
To summarize their Results table, Lexus beat the Infiniti by 7 points in Performance in these categories: Skidpad, Braking, and Fuel economy. The Q beat the LS by 7 points in "Subjective Ratings" as they call it, Driving excitement, Engine, Handling, Exterior styling, Luggage space, etc.

So at this point the score is 362 vs. 362
And so the real winner was decided by the Price, $56,507 vs. $62,098. This gave the Q a 7-point edge over the LS430.

And thus, the final score was 562 vs. 555.

Infiniti wins.

So, is this the Infiniti era now? What do you think?
I am really worried about the 5.9 second 0-60 Infiniti advertised, and now R/T was able to squeze out 6.5. I hope its gear ratios, but who knows :(


Sound your opinion! Comon!

Niether one is a Skyline GT-R so I'm not all too worried about performance on either vehicle, but you did bring up a good point.

Nissan/Inifiti does claim 0-60 in 5.9 and with a 340hp engine you would think "why not"?

When both cars first came out over a decade ago I thought the Infiniti line were butt ugly compared to the Lexus line, but it looks like either Infiniti finally got it, Lexus is starting to beat their cars with an ugly wrench or I'm getting old and less bitchy about looks. Nah!:finger:

Don't think anyone would be unhappy with either car, but if you want to twist my arm and force me to choose...............:confused:

OK I go with the Q45.

My reason's: Nissan is making a big turn around and my guess is with better tires and and a little adjustment with the gears it will be able to overcome it's few mis-leadings. Also again when these cars first came over from Japan, they were supposed to be a great alternative to the high end Europian cars at a great VALUE.

Lexus is started to join the price of the cars is was meant to replace. Still a great value true, but if you were going to spend $60K you have quite a few other cars to look at. For a starting price still at $50K the Q45 is a much better car.

My .02 cents:cool:

I like the Infiniti. Looks good! I'd like to see some pics of it's interior.

Try checking out http://www.infiniti.com/docs/fr_q452001.html there's a virtual tour of the inside. Very nice:D

This is kinda tough because the Lexus has soooooo much more prestige than the infiniti

but after seeing the new commercials for the Q45, that is my choice, and it looks soooo sweet now

R&T probably didn't launch it very agressively. Its final drive is 1 thingie taller than the Lexus, so its quieter at cruising speed and goes WAY faster (150+ vs. 127)
I would take the Q any day, in my mind its far superior.

And when you say .02 cents, you would need 50 of those to get one cent. Just say my 2 cents, or 0.02 dollars. Nitpicking, I know.

the Q45 is a great looking car it looks twice as good in person, nice wheels , interior and performance. Now the lexus is looking rather small and ugly, it still is good for comfort but in trrms of styling can we say avalon and hubcap look alike rims. I swear when i first saw the car i thought it had hubcaps

I am currently test driving a Lexus LS430 for a few days, and it is without a doubt the most luxerious car i have ever been, including MB S-Class, Jag XJ8, and the BMW 750il. It has so many luxery features. The damn car even finds me resturants and gas stations.
It is also so much fun to drive. My car has ever option, so i have the ability to change between 2 different suspensions, Sport and Normal. The sport allows it to drive more like a European car, which i dont like (i have a mercedes E320 and i hate how it drives). I have yet to drive the new Q but from what i have read, it can't compare to the LS430.

I like the Q45, and I hope it's indicative of the direction that Infiniti plans on taking its whole line. I really like all the voice command equipment. AutoWeek said it could recognize a real southern accent, but it couldn't understand a faked one. LOL:silly2:

They stole my idea, though. Sort of. They have built-in microphones that detect ambient noise in the cabin and adjust the stereo to be quieter it you're talking. Sweet! I won't post my idea. I still need it to get rich. ;)

You can ask me about my urinal idea, though. If you're brave. I think that will be a differnt thread.

Also again when these cars first came over from Japan, they were supposed to be a great alternative to the high end Europian cars at a great VALUE.

--R35

Absolutely true. I suppose Lexus feels they can jack up their prices as much as they want, now that they have the customer loyalty and well known name. People who buy luxury cars tend to enjoy being pampered. Lexus owns the customer satisfaction aspect. Remember when their dealerships were voted #1 in the nation?

Also, people seem to enjoy seeing others of their kind on the road. I am repulsed by the fact that there are so many haughty LSs roaming around. I would much much rather own a Q--any model year. They have always been these different, comfy-yet-firm sleepers, and now they seem to be breaking out of their shells. I don't really mind if the Q45 remains in the shadow of the LS430 in the States. If I ever purchase one, I will be more than satisfied knowing that I have a very capable, UNIQUE performance-luxury car (I chose not to say 'luxury-performance', since the Q has always led class by power).

I am currently test driving a Lexus LS430 for a few days, and it is without a doubt the most luxerious car i have ever been, including MB S-Class, Jag XJ8, and the BMW 750il. It has so many luxery features. The damn car even finds me resturants and gas stations.

--Stellar

I quote you because I am utterly dumbfounded by the fact that you would select the LS430 over any of the other cars you mentioned, particularily the S-Class. Some of these euros can nearly double the sticker price of the Lexus, not to mention that they aren't in the same class. Who really believes that the flagship BMW V12-powered 2 ton+ aircraft carrier-like behemoth should be rated less than a japanese car built for alternative "affordable luxury"? Perhaps you are disillusioned by the LS430's interesting-yet-excessive gimmicks slewn throughout the cabin. Do oscillating vents really belong in a luxury ensemble, or are they just there to make people emit their 'oohs and aahs'? As for the advanced nav system, all japanese cars have the edge, due to their high popularity and hence, much more intense R&D in their homeland.

The europeans have already mastered the art of blending luxury with performance. Their creatures always raise the bar by spawning standard setting ideas and inventions, while keeping in mind that there IS a natural balance, even in a luxury car. Don't get me wrong, the LS430 is still an excellent car. I've even had the opportunity to sleep in a buddy's LS on a road trip, and I must admit it is much more comfortable than my own bed.

But it's nowhere as elite as the S-class and company.

Originally posted by morpheusxiii
As for the advanced nav system, all japanese cars have the edge, due to their high popularity and hence, much more intense R&D in their homeland.

Almost all JDM cars have awesome nav systems built-in. Even the cheapo models. The top-of-the-line ones are incredible. Stuff like real-time 3D mapping from your car's point of view. Wow.

I'd take the Q45 just for those headlights

I still think that the Q's mutli-lens headlights would make a great spot to install a pair of vulcan rotary gatling guns. :devil:

Slower traffic BEWARE!!

Below is a shot of my evil uncle thefting an M61A1 cannon for use on my next Q45! Just messing around, of course.

ah, morpheusxiii, which gives me an idea.

How about the Q45 for the next Bond car?

Heh, that would be the day. It would make MY day. Bond went from Astons to Bimmers--no telling what is next. Nissan? Would be an excellent sight, although unfortunately unlikely. :(

since there is a new Aston, i think bond should switch to Astons again.


maybe Zondas!!!!! that'd be THE day.

Seriously, Bond is ONLY genuine with british hardware... Then again, EVERYTHING is controlled by $$$ these days. I wonder how much BMW payed whichever studio it was to use their autos. Revive the 'Q' Astons!!!

Adam, you wouldnt want the Zonda to be the next bond car, cuz' at least one would be destroyed, and that is not acceptable. :(

Heh, that's a good point, but to see a Zonda with concealed artillery and other neat gadgetry should be worth the sacrifice. Of course, it's not Bond's style to drive a car from such a new company, especially one built for all out racing. Then again, rumor has it that Pierce Brosnan's replacement is coming soon to a theatre near you.

But the Zonda isn't build for all-out racing. It is an exotic, but still has a/c, radio.. the works.

Actually, I would love to see the Zonda in the next Bond film. It'd make every guy with 350k want one. That might even make Horacio Pagani build more, which would increase my chances of seeing one.

But this topic is about the Q45 and the Lexus anyways.

Well, all around racing as opposed to the Astons and BMWs; you all know what I mean. If you don't then never mind. I see 007 driving cars like Bentleys and other luxo-sports with that executive appeal.

What the... I didn't realize that this thread was about the Q vs. LS. We've rambled a little far off topic.

In any case, most of you can see by now that the Q is STILL being shut out by the LS430. I thought it would. I even know of a guy who was really intrigued by the new Infiniti, loved every aspect of it, but still went ahead and bought the Lexus. THAT, my friends, is the imperative strength of the name of Lexus.

In order for Infiniti to counter such dominance, they would need to hurt their own business by sacrificing profits, and greatly set their car apart from the competitor's product using price drops, and better luxury components. Yes, Lexus would probably meet the changes with their own advancements, but at least Infiniti would have made themselves slightly more well known. This is all hypothetical, of course, and in reality, I still believe that the Q will trail the LS for some time.

Speaking of the letters 'L' and 'S', I find it quite annoying that Lincoln has named their upscale luxury sedan LS. Prior to its release, it was actually supposed to be called LS4, LS6, LS8 or something along those lines. Of course, Toyota retaliated and had Ford fix that detail. Is the new name 'LS' very different now? Still sounds like the Lexus name, if you ask me. On the other hand, the Tundra was supposed to be called the T150 (a step up from the T100). Ford didn't like that, with their F150 hot item already on the market, and Toyota made the necessary changes. Interestingly enough, the Tundra is still selling admirably.

All the mags are rating the Lex highter than the infiniti. Bribery does wonderful things.
The lex is faster, but slower top speed wise.
The lexus' rear end it 1 ratio lower than the infinitis, adn the gear ratios are similiar, so the Lex has to rev higher to maintain speed, by about 2-3 hundred revs at 60 mph.
Fit the Lexus rear end on the infiniti, and we are looking at perhaps 5.2 on a bad day, into the fours :bloated: on a good day, maybe??

morpheus i don't think selling the Q for cheaper would really change anything except make them seem like a worse company, it's already cheaper than the LS and at that end of the market, high prices make people think it's a better car

Originally posted by gang$tarr
morpheus i don't think selling the Q for cheaper would really change anything except make them seem like a worse company...

Sorry for being so obscure, but that's not what I meant.

Originally posted by morpheusxiii
In order for Infiniti to counter such dominance, they would need to hurt their own business by sacrificing profits, and greatly set their car apart from the competitor's product using price drops, and better luxury components.

What I was trying to say was that Infiniti needed to develop and use more features (which generally increases the cost of a car) but bring it down to the usual Q45's price level. That would would probably hurt profit gains for the company, but it make a buyer feel like they are getting much more for their money. This trade off would allow for buyers to think, "Oh, this Infiniti car.. hmm, never thought about buying one before, but it has better stuff than the Lexus, and still costs less!" As opposed to, "Oh, this Infiniti car.. has pretty much the same stuff as the Lexus, but costs only a few grand less. I'll take the Lexus because it's a better name". Infiniti will have stood out of Lexus's shadow, and down the road, even if prices gradually increased, those buyers would come back and remain loyal, now that they KNOW what Infiniti is capable of.

As you can see, what I'm trying to figure out is an alternative plan that Infiniti could use to get around the famed Lexus nameplate. But you ARE right about the fact that people base assumptions on price alone. People are sheep, what can I say?

Originally posted by morpheusxiii
People are sheep, what can I say?
"Baaaaaaa...." http://www.plauder-smilies.de/tiere/sheep.gif

aright yeah, i understand what you're sayin now..... that's a good point, and a good idea for infiniti to use

The Infinity has an $8000 Premium package, hard to swallow, but I think at this price, it is worth it. If it was standard, and they jacked up the price $6500 (they would save some because they need certain machines, just one assemble line, not seperating them apart according to options), then the car would sell better.

And rember, Lexus is, what, 12 years old.:rolleyes:

it doesn't really matter that lexus is 12 years old though.... cause all the cars that where made as lexus' were also made as Toyotas so all they really did was put a different badge on the cars.... and how old is toyota?

Originally posted by Chris
The Infinity has an $8000 Premium package, hard to swallow, but I think at this price, it is worth it. If it was standard, and they jacked up the price $6500 (they would save some because they need certain machines, just one assemble line, not seperating them apart according to options), then the car would sell better.

From the looks of it, not many people seem to buy the Premium Package (although I think it is worthwhile). I suppose the reason for this is that Infiniti buyers can be classified into two categories: 1) sports enthusiasts, who tend not to care about additional pampering, 2) smaller budget folk who came to Infiniti in the first place to avoid the sky-high Lexus pricetag. Of course, there is that small group of fiends who are hardcore Nissan lovers (who actually have extra money lying around). These guys have the Premium Package. There is one more group, which Lexus seems to own completely: those who simply have money, and lots of it.

With this and the previously mentioned hypothetical marketing strategy in mind, it seems like Chris's idea might work well since the consumers would see that the Infiniti is better equipped in any option format, and perhaps then some of those cash-friendly Lexus-types would come on over.

...This feels like a Camry/Accord comparison... :D

Infinity is the same age as lexus, they just botched it at the start. And how old is Nissan/Datsun?? They came here at about the same time.

But people with tons of money seem to be stupid, and not care about the product. They buy the one with the most cachet, and we have already discussed that.

Originally posted by Piston1047
the Q45 is a great looking car it looks twice as good in person, nice wheels , interior and performance. Now the lexus is looking rather small and ugly, it still is good for comfort but in trrms of styling can we say avalon and hubcap look alike rims. I swear when i first saw the car i thought it had hubcaps

Yea, i agree i saw the LS430 in person on the weekend...and i wasnt really impressed by it. And yea i agree with you 100%...i also had to look twice to make sure that it wasnt a hub cap covering a steel wheel, and i also saw the uncany resembelience to the Toyota Avalon (an ugly car if you ask me) So yea, i would pick a Q45 over the Lexus anyday...I sat in one at the car show in Toronto, and the guy at the infinity booth was nice enough to give the car some power so we could try out everything, the sound system, the voice command......it is a very, very nice car. I would prob get that over a S430 or 740i, simply because of the price. But both Infinity and Lexus are in NO WAY close to the big three (BMW, BENZ, JAG) when it comes to flagship sedans. I dont know, i just dont have any respect for car companys that just rip ideas off and "improve em".....I mean what has Lexus made/developed? At least the Q45 has some character....

Originally posted by Piston1047
Now the lexus is looking rather small and ugly

have you ever seen one? they're pretty huge IMO



Originally posted by moe182

But both Infinity and Lexus are in NO WAY close to the big three (BMW, BENZ, JAG) when it comes to flagship sedans. I dont know, i just dont have any respect for car companys that just rip ideas off and "improve em".....I mean what has Lexus made/developed? At least the Q45 has some character....

I think Lexus is right up there with bmw, benz and jag..... it's their prime competitor. and you said that the lexus hasn't made anything, do you know how many features the Lexus LS400 hat before any other luxury car?
and please explain how the Q45 has more character? what has the Q45 made or developed?

i'm not putting you down, i just want to know

Originally posted by gang$tarr


have you ever seen one? they're pretty huge IMO





I think Lexus is right up there with bmw, benz and jag..... it's their prime competitor. and you said that the lexus hasn't made anything, do you know how many features the Lexus LS400 hat before any other luxury car?
and please explain how the Q45 has more character? what has the Q45 made or developed?

i'm not putting you down, i just want to know

No i dont know any of the features that the LS400 had before any other luxury car.......please fill me in, thanks. And the Q45 has more character because there are less of them on the road like ALOT less and its exterior design isnt a generation behind (cover up the front of the LS with your hand, and i see a last generation S class rip, even the old one was an S rip, the new one is just rounded) ANd im not saying that Infinity made/developed anything....but they (nissan) make good cars. But then again i dont consider infinity up there with BMW, BENZ and JAG, and the price of the infinity shows that they dont either. I dont know what it is but there is just something about lexus i dont like. I mean i DO like some of there cars (IS300, GS300/430) but others (LS430, SC430) I have real beef with. To me those two cars are just rips of other companys in both design and tech.

how is an SC430 a rip?

and all cars have lots of similarities, i don't really agree about the S-Class vs. LS430 thing... but that's you opinion
the LS430 has always been said to have more technological features (maybe not anymore but in the early 90s), good reliability and a quiter ride than it's German competitors

Originally posted by moe182
...and its exterior design isnt a generation behind (cover up the front of the LS with your hand, and i see a last generation S class rip...

I think the front of the new LS is pretty damn close to the front of the new S-class, as well.

Originally posted by gang$tarr
how is an SC430 a rip?

You should check out front quarter shots of the SC430 side by side with the SLKs. It's uncanny how the headlight and grille designs share the same shape. And of course, both being hardtop convertibles force the rooflines to be similar as well, but you just can't help that.

Check out these two shots:

Note the curvatures of both headlights, the similar grilles, and the identical A-pillar. If the SC430 was a roaster instead of a cabriolet, the rear would probably look even more alike:

you can't expect every car to be totally different.... the back of an S-Type jag looks like the back of a Bentley, nobody says oohhh that's a rip. Cause every car has something similar to other cars

and in real life they look totally different except for the grill.... Lexus took the SLK lights and totally improved on them. Just like i think IS300 lights look the same as civic light, lots of lights look really similar. I don't here anybody complaining about that? Plus the SC430 is way more curved, i think it's unfair to say they're copying the SLK

See, i think the major difference is that JAG, BMW, BENZ all have a specific look they associate with ALL there cars. Lexus doesnt. So because of that there is no "Lexus look" and thus no legacy. And i think THATS what i dont like about lexus... I mean you take the entire Benz, Jag or Bmw line and remove all the badges (and assume that the person has never seen any of the cars before) and ill bet that anyone with half a brain will be able to tell which of the cars should be grouped together.....Also to me Lexus is just too new, and just hasnt proven itself as a real luxury company, I mean its gone through what? 2 generations? Benz, Bmw, and Jag all have amazing cars in there history that no one can argue with. Example: 1957 300SL Roadster or Gullwing.... Lexus in my opinion just too new to be playing with the big boys. (at least when it comes to the flagships)

Morpheus XIII, yea yer right......i never noticed that before.......

that's why BMW & Mercedes were so scared of Lexus when the LS400 came out... because it had more features and it had the most quiet ride of any car

I think Lexus proved itself with that car..... I would say Lexus, BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar are the majore luxury competitors
and then Audi and Infiniti are just under (even though the gaps are closing)

and it doesn't matter that lexus is only like 15 years old cause Lexus doesn't make the cars, that's just another name for Toyota... and how old is Toyota?! pretty old, i think. Toyota has proven themselves as a good company, so sayin that lexus is too new to be good isn't true because toyota has almost as much history as the german boys

like me myself, i like BMW better than Lexus.... but lexus is damn close, and i can't lie and say that the LS430 is worse than a 740i...

oldsmobile is around a 100 years old, that doesn't proove anything to me... doesn't mean their car is better than lets say Honda

Originally posted by gang$tarr
you can't expect every car to be totally different.... the back of an S-Type jag looks like the back of a Bentley, nobody says oohhh that's a rip. Cause every car has something similar to other cars


actually, the design of the Jaguar S-Type borrows heavily from the Jaguar Mark II, which I think was introduced in 1959...that is to say the designers of the S-Type actually used the Mark II as a reference.

Originally posted by fahoumh


actually, the design of the Jaguar S-Type borrows heavily from the Jaguar Mark II, which I think was introduced in 1959...that is to say the designers of the S-Type actually used the Mark II as a reference.

oh, i didn't know that..... so then just take my second example

I have noticed that a lot of Japanese luxury cars have European influenced styling, now more than ever.....but hey, they say imitation is the sincerist form of flattery.

Originally posted by gang$tarr
that's why BMW & Mercedes were so scared of Lexus when the LS400 came out... because it had more features and it had the most quiet ride of any car

I think Lexus proved itself with that car..... I would say Lexus, BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar are the majore luxury competitors
and then Audi and Infiniti are just under (even though the gaps are closing)

and it doesn't matter that lexus is only like 15 years old cause Lexus doesn't make the cars, that's just another name for Toyota... and how old is Toyota?! pretty old, i think. Toyota has proven themselves as a good company, so sayin that lexus is too new to be good isn't true because toyota has almost as much history as the german boys

like me myself, i like BMW better than Lexus.... but lexus is damn close, and i can't lie and say that the LS430 is worse than a 740i...

oldsmobile is around a 100 years old, that doesn't proove anything to me... doesn't mean their car is better than lets say Honda

You always say that the Lexus had "more features" but like what? and even if it did have a quieter ride i doubt it was by much...also ture Toyota HAS been around for a long time...but they were bulding econo sports and family cars nothing in the high-end lux market. So really lexus/toyota has only been building the lux cars for two generations (since 89 or 90).... also you cant (at least not while being fair) compare the last generation 7 series to the latest generation LS..... youd have to compare it to the 745i or the S430 (short wheelbase)....

It doesnt matter that lexus is new. I mean, they get good engineers who have probably worked for MB, BMW, Jaguar, et al, and they make a car. The younger the company, the older the company, it doesnt matter anymore, IMO.

And I also think Lexus competes with everyone, even rolls-royce (Its almost as good, better in some respects, and is cheaper. That wont matter to some, or even me if I had that much money, but its true.)

Originally posted by Chris
It doesnt matter that lexus is new. I mean, they get good engineers who have probably worked for MB, BMW, Jaguar, et al, and they make a car. The younger the company, the older the company, it doesnt matter anymore, IMO.


good answer, that's what i was thinking

and didn't Toyota make the same lexus cars under the Toyota name in Japan? like i mean i'm sure that toyota made atleast a few lux cars that were under the Toyota name (before lexus)

Well those are your opinions, and i respect them....i just dont agree with them.

Originally posted by moe182
Well those are your opinions, and i respect them....i just dont agree with them.

and i respect yours.... but i don't agree with them :D

I just think Lexus easily runs with, if not beats the german boys

actually... lets see

3-series vs. IS300: i'd take the 3-series
5-series vs. GS400: I'd take the 5-series
7-series vs. LS430: hmmm..... this is tough... i think i'd go for the Lex
M-Roadster vs. SC430: hard to compare, but both are open top... I'd easily take the SC430
X5 vs. RX300: I'd take the X5

lexus also has the ES300 and LX470 that bmw doesn't have a competitor for
so you see it's really close, but i prefer bmw just cause i like german cars
at this point it's all about preference, cause they're both so good

Yea i think Bmw is going to release something to compete with the LX470.....the X7 i dont know if they still are, but last i heard it was a maybe.....

BMW has a X5 4.6i....it's a lot more expensive than the 4.4i

and for the record: NOTHING competes with Bentley and Rolls Royce

Originally posted by fahoumh
and for the record: NOTHING competes with Bentley and Rolls Royce This discussion has been moved here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2953). :D

Back to Lexus vs. Infiniti...

The Q45 from day one tried to be different. It's a shame that it didn't get the respect and prestige that it truly deserves. I have always liked the Q45. The '94-'96 model with the chrome grill added such an elegant touch. As for the new Q, I only have a problem with the front styling, but that can be easily fixed. I would get some real dark headlight covers and I would also try to change the grill and get something more less radical. Everything else on the Q is simply perfect. Oh, I forgot, I have to win the lottery first. =(

:coolguy: :coolguy:

The Lexus LS 430 is the best car made today. Want some reasons why? Contact me, I have all the info

I would choose the Q45 over the ls430

Heres some info about infiniti and the q45

(got this info on a website)

On location in Miami, Florida

So we get off the plane in Miami feeling like Batman must've felt before test-driving his Batmobile. We knew we were on a special mission when we "had" to go down there to test drive Infiniti's new 2002 Q45.

Not only was Miami's air humid, but redemption was in it. You see, back in 1991 Infiniti's flagship Q45 was ahead of its time. A DOHC alloy V-8 breathing through 32 valves and displacing 4.5 liters with 278 bhp on tap, the car was about serious performance. When you threw in amazing build quality and a plethora of features, there were a few out there who knew how special this car was ...yet the mainstream luxury market for perhaps hundreds of reasons chose the Lexus LS400.

As the 90s progressed, Infiniti made the Q45 into a softer and gentler car by adding wood trim, a more conservative front grille, and lots of exterior chrome trim. By then, Infiniti had lost itself and, on top of everything, sales didn't touch the LS400.

Still without any collective insight, Infiniti decided throw away the sporty image of the Q45 and released a redesigned 1997 Q45. It was more conservative in nature and resembled more American luxury car than any foreign prestige brand. Besides that, it now had a weaker 4.1 liter engine, less brand equity, and the door handles, radio, and buttons were sourced from the Nissan parts bin. For enthusiasts, there were no reasons left to drive a Q, except that no one else had one.

To keep up with luxury car trends, Infiniti eventually added some features to the 99-01 Qs -- Xenon HID lights, the analog clock made it's way back, and electronically controlled suspension. Minimalists offerings but nothing breakthrough.

We can only imagine everyone who was responsible must've been a little peeved and embarrassed. Not only did Infiniti sell its soul with the Q45, but all it got in exchange were lessons that came with a price tag that didn't make any sense. It wasn't anyone's fault in particular, but that was part of the problem. In the end, everyone sort of just scratched their heads at the lackluster results, went home for dinner and came to work the next day.

But the reality was Infiniti was bleeding at the gut. From an entrepreneurial standpoint there was no reason to even stay in business. The Xterra alone was many times more profitable than the entire Infiniti line.

Desperation eventually ushered in new voices, thus a new breath of life at Infiniti. Baby boomer managers had to juice up their ambition and imaginations to grasp new and developing trends in the automotive luxury market. There would be no more attempting to follow the perceived industry leader, Lexus. Infiniti needed to pave it’s own road to success.

In the end, there are two main Unique Selling Points of the new Q45:

The 2002 Q45 may very well be the beginning of that departure. With 340 horses underneath the hood, Infiniti raises the bar on power in the premium luxury market. The LS430 has 290, which is 50 less horses in the stable. Ouch.

Then there's the gorgeous interior with the 6-inch LCD monitor (7-inches for those who opt for the navigation system) For the first time, the interior of an Infiniti surpasses Lexus. Highlighting the list is standard speech recognition - allowing hands free control of the audio, climate control, and navigation systems. Then add an array of amenities with some of the finest leather seats we've sat on. All this make the cabin quite the cocoon for any who needs time to think. Powerful stuff, indeed. We'll take it personally if Infiniti doesn't show off this interior in their TV ad spots.
Performance
As we mentioned earlier, the first gen Q45s were performance oriented -- though both the first and second gen sported the V-8 VH series engines. The first generation enjoyed the benefits of a muscular 4.5 liter VH45DE engine. The second generation was demoted to a 4.1 liter VH41DE. Mind you regardless of year, the VH engines were smooth and torquey. But for a totally new car, you need a totally new engine.

Witness Nissan's new 4.5 liter V-8 VK45DE. Similar in design to Nissan's much vaulted V-6 VQ series engines, the VK45DE is all aluminum alloy with DOHC and 32 valves. This engine allows features variable length air induction system, continuously variable valve timing control system, titanium valves, modular cylinder heads, microfinished crankshaft, lightweight pistons, super-silent single stage cam drive chain and a hydraulically driven cooling fan (powered by the steering system - allowing for low noise and power loss). All of this technology and craftsmanship is good for a velvety smooth 340 bhp @ 6,400 rpm and 333 ft-lbs of torque @ 4,000 rpm.

Our editors have driven the likes of the Lexus GS400, BMW 540i, and Mercedes E430 Sport. The Merc and even the GS400 doesn't hold a dime to the new Q. The new Q excels in back country roads, especially in sport trim with 18" wheels/tires and active damping suspension. The 540i only when optioned with the Sport Suspension fares well against the Q. However then the 540’s ride tends to suffer on bad roads whereas Infiniti has done a great job of balancing ride comfort and handling.

The smooth shifting 5 speed automatic (another first for Infiniti) works in tandem with the V-8 to produce seamless and quiet acceleration so that you forget how fast you're going until you look at the speedometer. Our editors enjoyed the flexibility of the manual-shifting mode but missed the instantaneous action offered by a true manual transmission. Still the manumatic mode held gears until near red line and could shave off a few seconds on a road course track.

True to its flagship high tech totem pole status, the Q gets vehicle dynamics control (a sophisticated form of traction control) paired up with limited slip differential so you can toss it around corners. Even then the Q’s suspension is amazingly supple and soaks up bumps and ruts in the highways.

Braking performance is on par with it's competitors boasting large four wheel vented discs, ABS (of course), electronic brake distribution (EBD), and mechanical/electronic braking assist. The latter senses when the driver is attempting to brake quickly and helps to apply more braking force.

Design
When we first saw the new Q introduced last year, we were pleasantly surprised. The new Q had an aggressive stance especially with it's prominent Infiniti logo on the front grille. We admire the lines of its beefy beltline. We notice a hint of the new S class in the profile.

The rear also grew on us and we came to appreciate it when driving behind another 2002 Q45 on the highway.

Exterior
It has been hinted by some Infiniti insiders that a certain famous European design studio had an early role in the design of the new Q, but those rumors have not been substantiated and remain just that. No one can deny, however, that the new Q isn't a knockout. Officially, the lead designer was Mamoru Aoki who designed the last generation 300ZX, a timeless classic. Kudos we say to whoever dreamt up the machine-gun xenon HID headlights - which we must say, are pretty damn cool.
Interior
The car has a large center pod where the air conditioning, radio, and (in certain trims) the navigation system are integrated with a large LCD display. The buttons look of high quality plastic and have a nice tactile feel. The system operates with a cursor based buttons (like a the cursor buttons on a DVD player), thus it's not touch screen based - which we think is great considering all the oily finger prints normally associated with one. It may need a bit of time to adjust to - but we think it has an acceptable level of intuitiveness that we were able operate all the features within a few hours.

As soon as we sat in the driver's seat, we realized how gorgeous the electro-illuminescent gauges were. Sharp and clear with very little wash out even in the bright Florida sun. The rest of the interior is attractive with high quality leather, soft touch plastics and cloth-covered pillars lending a European touch. We preferred the lighter interiors to the black interior.

The Q comes with standard features such as dual zone climate control, wood trim (especially gorgeous in the bird's eye maple), one touch automatic windows (up and down), one touch sunroof, two position memory seats, retained power to close windows after taking the key out, tilting and telescoping power steering column, electronic key with remote entry, and auto dimming rear view mirror. Forgive us if we've left anything out as the Q enjoys a full list of gadgetry making it tough for mere mortals to keep track of.

The standard voice recognition system worked well when asked to turn off the climate control, to raise or lower the temperature, and to change radio stations. We’d like to spend a bit more time with the system to see how often we normally use it after the “neat feature” phase passes.

Optional are the DVD navigation system and active damping sport suspension
(not quite as sophisticated or costly to fix as the first gen Q45a). There's also a premium package, which includes reclining rear seats with audio and heating controls, power rear sun shade, plus the navigation and sport suspension thrown in. And the coolest feature of this package is the tail-mounted camera, which automatically activates when the transmission is shifted in reverse.

Annoyances
Power window buttons are buried below the door handles. The sunglass holder looks down market with hard plastic and unfinished edges

The ceiling grab handles are the old-school carrying case style and not the smooth auto-adjusting style. Nitpicking some might say, but VW even has silicon dampened grab handles. The trunk has gooseneck hinges. Should have been struts we say but at least they covered up the metal hinges with some nice plastic.

Audio System
The new Q boasts a 300-watt Bose system with 8 speakers and digital signal processing. Just hype? While it may not be the best factory system, the Bose system is certainly in the top percentile with good definition and clean sound at loud levels. Three 2.5" midrange speakers sit on top of the dash. Two 6.5" woofers are located on the front doors with 5.25" full range speakers in the rear door. A 12" woofer (wow!) and a digital amplifier sit inside the rear shelf. Bose touts it's Audio Pilot system, which samples the sound within the cabin and adjusts the amplifier to compensate for road and wind noise.

We were yearning for an in dash CD player instead of the 6 disc glove compartment changer but you could overlook that once you spend a bit of time appreciating the system.

Overall
The new Q is quite impressive. The car has an enviable list of performance and luxury features for it's $50,500 base price tag, undercutting the competition by a few thousand dollars. The car takes risks in styling but pays off big time in communicating a distinctive message to those who see the car and, more importantly, those who get a chance to drive it. Enough justification, we think, to earn the car a hard-to-earn superhero vehicle status. After all, anyone who pays 50k for personal transportation should be able to experience these sort of manic feelings about themselves when driving. Otherwise, what's the point?

End

Infiniti and nissan are coming up with a new car lineup
check it out at

infinitihelp.com

I found this also. Its an interview. it might help you understand what infiniti is now going for...
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Infiniti's new tag line, Accelerating the Future, marks a new direction and velocity for Nissan's luxury brand. Infiniti has just released a radically new Q45 and stylishly souped I35. Also two new SUVs, a full size SUV and a smaller crossover based on the FX45 were announced at the New York Auto Show. Don't forget the XVL concept based sports sedan and possibly another even sportier rear wheel drive sedan.

All these new additions to the family require a rethinking of values. Speeding towards a new path and future requires a new leader. Recently appointed to the position of Infiniti Vice President and General Manager is Mark McNabb. He is a long time veteran of Nissan since 1986; his most recent job was Director of Operations for the Nissan Division. Catch a glimpse of the inside track at Inifniti...

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We're genuinely curious. What's does your typical day look like? What's it like to work at Infiniti?

I don't believe the first few weeks are typical days. My whole objective for the time being is to immerse myself in the Infiniti business. This means that I need to meet with dealers, regions and division people quickly to assess where the division is going. It is also an unusual time at the division as we launch the Q45. Much of my time for the next several weeks is getting the message out to the dealerbody and press on this important new car.

According to your official bio, we noticed that you haven't be involved with the Infiniti dealer network but more with the Nissan channel. Is that an advantage or disadvantage?

I have never worked directly for Infiniti in the states, but have had some exposure to the brand when I was working in Japan. I like the fact that I have not had significant experience with the brand. To me that is an advantage. I truly like the fact that I have a fresh set of eyes looking at the division. No preconceived notions, no bias, just a fresh perspective on the business. This allows me to blend the best of Infiniti with some of the strengths of Nissan.

Infiniti is undergoing some drastic changes. They have some pretty dramatic products coming out, including the new FX45, the new Q, the XVL and the new full size Infiniti SUV. These are all exciting cars, but we're a little curious about the managing of the Infiniti Brand. Someone would say it lacks the prestige of Mercedes, Lexus, and BMW. What's Infiniti going to do about this deficiency in their vehicles social status?

There are dramatic changes going on with the Infiniti Division, and obviously product plays a key role. I would, however, be remiss if I didn't mention that the FX45 is currently a show car. In addition, there has been no announcement on a full size SUV for the Infiniti division. (Editor's Note: This interview was conducted a few weeks before the New York Auto Show - where the FX45 and full size SUV were officially announced for production.)

We are currently redefining our brand from top to bottom. Every dealer, every dealership employee and every Infiniti employee will be trained on the new brand position. Obviously product will lead the charge, but just as important will be the way we go to market.

I think our distance from the other marquees may not be as great as you infer. Lexus is a young brand like us and together we redefined customer handling. We have an excellent dealer body and outstanding customer relationship. Once we add all the new exciting product, I think our marquee value will rise quickly.

There seems to be an opportunity initially pricing vehicles lower. Of course, much like Lexus did in the beginning it is possible to put great cars in the market at a significant lower price and capture more market share initially. At this point in Infiniti's history a great deal is at stake. With these new and exciting products, what's Infiniti's short and long term pricing strategy?

While it is true that Lexus initially priced its vehicles lower to capture market share, it should also be noted that Lexus' big jump in terms of sales volume came from the addition of vehicles in new segments. If you look at Lexus over the past several years, its largest sales increase came as a result of the RX300. That model added over 100,000 units annually. Also, we intend to make it clear that Infiniti will deliver outstanding vehicles at a fair market price. We are pricing the vehicles to sell as suggested. Product that the driving enthusiast desires does not need discounts or incentives to sell. It sells on its merits.

Infiniti's pricing strategy has not changed. We simply price to market.

When it comes to product line-up, the G20 seems to be a product with some potential. However, it seems to be a weak link in the Infiniti brand.

The G20 is an excellent value and a very attractive product. We are currently introducing the new 2002 version. This product has done well for us. Admittedly we would like more horsepower in it and this will be considered as we determine what to do next.

There are rumors about a 400 hp q45. What can you tell us about that?

That sounds like an exciting vehicle. Not sure where you heard this rumor. At this time, there is not a 400hp Q45 for me to announce or sell. But I certainly like the idea.

Is it true that the Porsche studio in Europe did some of the early design development for the Q45?

No.

When it comes to technology, Infiniti has announced plans that it wants to be the leader in innovation. How long before we see Infiniti vehicles with satellite radios, MP3 players, internet and e-mail capabilities? Will Infiniti be first?

Infiniti certainly looks to the future. Our new tag line - Accelerating the Future - makes it clear that is our direction. No one can predict or would disclose what they intend to put in the vehicle. Yet, technology and innovation are consistent with our direction for Infiniti.

What's your take on European luxury car makers offering free scheduled maintenance? What are the chances of a Japanese maker like Infiniti offering a comparable incentive?

All of us keep an eye on the competition and what works. Infiniti, for example, has the best service loan car program in the industry. Others have tried free maintenance. That is not a new approach. It has been tried before but it never seems to take hold. Of course we will look at it again, but the key is not the program, it is delivering to the customer real value and convenience.

-Noel Saw

[url=Infinitihelp.com[/url]

http://www.toyotaoffroad.net/jnburtman/q45/side_g.jpg

http://www.toyotaoffroad.net/jnburtman/q45/interior_front.jpg

http://www.toyotaoffroad.net/jnburtman/q45/18_cement.jpg

Read my post from here: http://forums.freshalloy.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=14&t=000631

I love my Q.

I came from a '95 S class. Luckily, I bought an extended warranty on the car that saved me from shelling out over $9k in repairs over 5 years!

Cars I looked at before making my decision:

2002 Mercedes S430: I was very disappointed. The interior felt cheap compared to my last gen. S class. There was too much plastic, less wood, cheap looking cupholders, cheap felling storage bins below front seats that stick out and hit your legs, etc. The car drove nice, but there no excitement. It starts at $73k, doesn't have Hid's, doesn't have a CD changer, and honestly was bare boned. Everything is optional, of course. If you do get the optional CD changer, it goes in the TRUNK! Overall, the quality definitely is lacking on the new one. You may also find this interesting on the new S class:
MB quality gone downhill - http://mbspy.bacosys.be/mbquality.htm

Another thing that made my decision even clearer was this site: www.mercedesproblems.com (http://www.mercedesproblems.com) - If you go there and select S430, you can read customer complaints on the car. The same ones keep coming up - Navigation system turning off, on-screen display not working, electronics turning off, groan from wheels when turning, just to name a few. Then if you select S500, (same car, just different engine basically) you keep hearing the same problems repeated. It's just not a reliable car.

2002 LS430: Used to have a 94 LS400. Great car, no problems. I wanted something unique this time around and it surely is.

Audi A8 - Nice car, but a little too conservative/outdated for me. I hear the new one will be out in another year.

2002 Jaguar S type: Nice, but too small. I'm still a little weary of their reliability, even though they have improved. It looked like they shoved a Ford radio in the dash.

BMW 7 - same feeling as the A8. Again, new one will be out in about a month.

I can't say how much I love this car.

2002 Q45 with tint - more mods to come: http://get.to/q45

I like the way the lexus looks, better, the infiniti looks too much like an early model of the lexus gs300, any one who denys that, know's the truth in thier hearts. The lexus does resemble a benz, niether are too unique, but I'd still say the lexus until I test drove it myself. I test drove the IS sport design, lexus just dropped the new model not too long ago, and I loved it.



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