I hate primer!!..!!..!!

When I do not use primer and just spray bare plastic it always comes out good and smooth, no imperfectins. But whenever I use primer and then paint my model, the paintjob comes out horrible. It has bubles, cracks and it is not smooth. Now I am scared to use primer anymore. Am I doing something wrong or what? I use mostly Tamiya.

Are you allowing the primer enough time to dry before you start spraying the paint on it?
Are you using Tamiya primer and paint?
If not, are you sure the primer you are using is compatable with the paint you are using?
Do you lightly sand the primer to make sure it is even before you spray paint?

mostly Tamiya....

if Testor are in the story, then you have your awnser.. Tertor Primer should be avoid at ALL cost...

Never used Tamiya Primer...

Primer should be your friend, tell us your procedure and kind of primer and paint you are using so we can then help you.:)

hrrrmmm, sounds like you might be layering the paint and primer on too thick without leaving enough drying time in between.

The advantages of primer are more than just getting a good coat of paint. It shows you imperfections and where to sand, gives a better base for paint to stick to, and if you're using laquer, it will let you strip the paint off if you wish to re-paint.

Try layering on thin and waiting a little while between coats. I had the same problem when I started painting and this solved it. It could of course be your materials though.

Good luck! :)

Let me say one more important benefit of using primer. You get a model that looks more solid and realistic and less like a plastic model. Especially on thin wing endplates and body panels that can bee seen through without primer if near a bright light.

OK, now I'm going to say something very unpopular here.

I NEVER use primer. :devil: Why would I need to go through all that trouble if my models are turning out good? And most of you guys here have already seen some of my work, right?

There are a couple of exceptions toughwhen I do use primer:

- when body paint is automotive lacquer, not for taking off afterwards, but to protect the plastic from being eaten away by the paint.
- When plastic colour is not in line with body colour.

I pre-sand my models always (1000 to 4000 grid) completely and trust my sanding skills, so I don't need to check for imperfections.

To give a couple of examples. The yellow Promarkt was primed with matt-white but the green sonax wasn't. The 300 SL 24 posted recently was primed because lacquer, but the Porsche 911 Turbolook wasn't.

To avoid the plastic look, I clear coat, sand it back and clear coat again, rather then using primer first.

Cheers,
Guido "the sanding man" :finger:

Originally posted by huudo
OK, now I'm going to say something very unpopular here.

I NEVER use primer. :devil: Why would I need to go through all that trouble if my models are turning out good? And most of you guys here have already seen some of my work, right?



INFIDEL!!! :devil:

j/k :D

Your work does look good, but there aren't too many people who are comfortable without primer, myself included.

For the lacquer warping the plastic? I think this may be true in models with softer plastic, but I've used automotive lacquer on revell models on a few occasions without primer and the paint didn't eat the plastic away at all, but it did etch in real good and now I am unable to strip the paint off of those bodies.

Careful Huudo, you may get Virtually Bitch Slapped. :D :D I did.:p

I'm with you on the primer thing. I only use it like you do or when adding aftermarket detail/conversion parts, or to check on imperfections in the body after doing body work.

As far as your problems with primer, Bookshelf, if you are using 2 different brand of primer and paint, test them on a piece of scrap plastic to check the compatability. That could be your problem, the same thing can happen with 2 different brandes of paint as well.

try heating up the can in hot water. I use testors :finger: just sprayed a R34 GTR up in it and it went on great. if you use testors alot comes out in a little spray. always keep moving and spray lightly. I alos use this for imperfection finding too but helps the paint stick and look better. I just got back in the habit of using primer.

i'm with huudo here. i don't primer either. i have tried it once recently with unpleasant results. ihowever, i will admit to using mr. surfacer to check for body imperfections on custom work on the body though.

a.

Would it be too much to ask to see pics of models with primer and pics of models you have done without?
That way it would be easy to compare.

OK......Looks like i'll have to get it out again for you non-priming people !!! :finger: :finger:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?s=&postid=65600
:D

I guess at the end of the day it comes down to what each person thinks is best

Hehe :D :D :D :D :D :D :flipa: :flipa:

Told you.:p :p :p

Originally posted by Asmenoth
Hehe :D :D :D :D :D :D :flipa: :flipa:

Told you.:p :p :p

:devil: ;)

Scottie300z, here is a pic of an Impreza without primer. I will take a pic of it when it's done, and without some much flash(the flash washed out the color a bit).

http://members.aol.com/asmenoth/subaru1

Originally posted by primera man
OK......Looks like i'll have to get it out again for you non-priming people !!! :finger: :finger:


:twoguns:

Watch your tail buddy from now on, cause sanding Huudo is on the loose!!

:lol2:

Scottie300z, here you go.

PRIMED:

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/497036300sl24-4.jpg


NON PRIMED:

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/371770911tl-3.jpg

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/677550PICT0047.JPG

Can you spot the difference? ;)

What's primer???





:D :D :D :finger: :devil: :flipa:

Alright guys, time for a little voice of reason, we don't want to mislead the new builders who are tuning in. First of all there would be a lot less need for priming if model companies would all mold the kits in white plastic.:mad: Many AF's are using Tamiya TS paints, and if they haven't learned that most of the colors are semi transparent, they soon will. If you want the red's, yellow's and white's etc. to be at their full brightness, they are going to have to be sprayed over white or alike color. Even if you spray TS 16 on a white or yellow body, for example, then paint inside the wheel openings black, you will more than likely see a dark area on the outside of the wheel opening because the body plus paint wasn't opaque enough to block it. That is a good case for priming this example white first, it makes the final color coats look much more even and with no shadowing effect. You can spray Tamiya TS paints onto bare plastic without harming it, and some of their colors are very opaque, you just have to learn which ones are. Tamiya primer goes on so smooth, there is very little work to do to achieve a smooth color coat over it.
Enamel's are fine to spray straight onto plastic also, they cover very well and priming is not needed in most cases. With automotive lacquers and Krylon paints it's best to prime first to protect the plastic.
Of course if you use putty to fill sink marks or to do body modifications, it's best to seal those areas with primer.:)
I know all this isn't as complete as it could be but I just wanted remind us all that modelers of all levels read these threads.:D

So I should not use primer and paint of diffirent brands? I usually do not use primer but if I wanna paint yellow on blue or something then I have to. I did a model this summer and it turned out horrible. I let the primer dry for a day or so and then yellow just went on really bad. I do not know if my layers are too thick but when I paint black on black it turns out really good. so I am just scared to use primer anymore.

Originally posted by huudo
...Can you spot the difference? ;)

Bah! The one with primer looks sooo much better! :eek:
:p

Alex

Stick with what works for you.

simple as that

Originally posted by Veyron
Alright guys, time for a little voice of reason, we don't want to mislead the new builders who are tuning in. First of all there would be a lot less need for priming if model companies would all mold the kits in white plastic.:mad: Many AF's are using Tamiya TS paints, and if they haven't learned that most of the colors are semi transparent, they soon will. If you want the red's, yellow's and white's etc. to be at their full brightness, they are going to have to be sprayed over white or alike color. Even if you spray TS 16 on a white or yellow body, for example, then paint inside the wheel openings black, you will more than likely see a dark area on the outside of the wheel opening because the body plus paint wasn't opaque enough to block it. That is a good case for priming this example white first, it makes the final color coats look much more even and with no shadowing effect. You can spray Tamiya TS paints onto bare plastic without harming it, and some of their colors are very opaque, you just have to learn which ones are. Tamiya primer goes on so smooth, there is very little work to do to achieve a smooth color coat over it.
Enamel's are fine to spray straight onto plastic also, they cover very well and priming is not needed in most cases. With automotive lacquers and Krylon paints it's best to prime first to protect the plastic.
Of course if you use putty to fill sink marks or to do body modifications, it's best to seal those areas with primer.:)
I know all this isn't as complete as it could be but I just wanted remind us all that modelers of all levels read these threads.:D

To all people who have not so much experience in spraying etc. The above is so much true I can't speak for TS paints, since I've never used them. I'm and old fashion modeler :bloated: who's still working with good old enamels. And that's why priming is not a real issue in my case. :D

Like Tazzy says, what works for you is best and experience will only come through pratice.

To Bookshelf,
Buy a couple of very cheap kits on which you can experiment. When using TS -> prime and let dry long enough. When using enamels -> you decide, cause normally you can do without.

Cheeeeeers,
Guido

:D

Originally posted by huudo
Can you spot the difference? ;)
The ones without primer has cheap plastic look to it. Sonax green should have deeper, richer and solid sheen. :Dj/k :D
No, they look good.
But it can be said that you just picked the color, which doesn't require primer. Try white or yellow, and paint the interior black.

OK....Time for another speach from the PMan.

*Enters stage...clears thoat....graps Mic*....AhemAhem :p

You all know my veiws that models should have a undercoat sprayed on first...BUT, i do believe if the car is molded in the same colour you are going to be spraying it, you should be able to get away with no primer.
Example.....Car molded in yellow can be sprayed in yellow if your sanding is 100%perfect.

Its when you want to change colours is when you need primer (try painting a car white that has been molded in black :bloated: )

I also look at primer as a "body putty" that will fill up those tiny tiny sanding marks. Its also good to spray on as it will show any mistake you may have done like, missing a mold line etc
IMO Its far better to have to sand some primer then getting a really really great topcoat finish only to find it has a big dirty fat seem line in a guard that you missed when sanding.

Originally posted by Ranger_X
hrrrmmm, sounds like you might be layering the paint and primer on too thick without leaving enough drying time in between.

The advantages of primer are more than just getting a good coat of paint. It shows you imperfections and where to sand, gives a better base for paint to stick to, and if you're using laquer, it will let you strip the paint off if you wish to re-paint.

Try layering on thin and waiting a little while between coats. I had the same problem when I started painting and this solved it. It could of course be your materials though.

Good luck! :)

U said that primer helps if I wan to strip the paint off, right? Why does it help and how do I do that? What do you use to strip the paint off? Does it damage the model when U do that?

Originally posted by Bookshelf
So I should not use primer and paint of diffirent brands? I usually do not use primer but if I wanna paint yellow on blue or something then I have to. I did a model this summer and it turned out horrible. I let the primer dry for a day or so and then yellow just went on really bad. I do not know if my layers are too thick but when I paint black on black it turns out really good. so I am just scared to use primer anymore.
You can use different brands. For example, Mr. Surfacer, Tamiya Primer or Dupli-Color primers are good for synthetic lacquer, enamel or water-based acrylic paints. The reason your outcome wasn't so pleasing was the way paint was applied on the primer, or you used gray primer instead of white primer.
You could have dissolved the primer with thick and wet yellow paint. You only need to push the nozzle for 1 second or so, and move the can sideways to apply an even and thin coat. Spray panel by panel, like right side, front, left side, rear, hood, roof and trunk, then go back to right side and repeat the same pass twice. Wait for a few days, and once the sealing layer is dry, apply more wet coat for better sheen, but not too much to avoid the orange peel effect.

Understand three types of paint, and how they react, so that you can overlay different brands without less risk.
There are mainly three types of hobby paint.

Lacquer based acrylic is the strongest of all, and it dissolve either enamel or water-based acrylic paint, if not carefully applied. Major brand of this kind is Tamiya Spray (TS), GSI Creos Mr. Color, and Mr. Color Spray, Dupli-Color Spray, and most of the primer. It's not recommend to spray this on enamel or acrylic, but if you need to, spray very light mist for 2 or 3 times, with a proper drying time of 10-15 min in-between. Then very light coat for another 2 or 3 times.

Enamel paint is opaque and can be applied well, and it may not need primer, but this doesn't eat lacquer base paint, so it's save to use Testor enamel on Mr. Surfacer, Tamiya Spray Primer or Dupli-Color Automotive primer (white or gray).

Water-based acrylics (yeah, not based, but just soluble, right?) are one of the weakest, and it's affected by the aforementioned two kinds, but once it's completely dry, it shouldn't be dissolved by the same brand. Mr. Aqueous Hobby Color and what? Model master has one, too? Never used Model Master, but it's the safest paint to use, and it can be thinned with denatured alcohol, and as long as the paint is still wet, the airbrush can be cleaned with water, so the running cost is cheap.

(I think I wrote the same kind before, but I don't know when, and I can't find it.)

Originally posted by Bookshelf


U said that primer helps if I wan to strip the paint off, right? Why does it help and how do I do that? What do you use to strip the paint off? Does it damage the model when U do that?

Well it really depends on the type of paint you're using and what you use to strip with. CSC and brake fluid are the most common strippers of paint. Ppl here who use modeling enamels like tamiya sprays say that csc won't dissolve the paint, and brake fluid will. Personally, I use automotive lacquer, which etches directly into the plastic, so csc and brake fluid will not dissolve this paint (only acetone will do this which will melt the plastic of the model) nor will they get underneath the paint if applied directly with no primer. On the other hand, when there's a layer of primer between the plastic and automotive paint, the csc will diffuse into the primer layer, and thus will easily let the paint slide off.

CSC and brake fluid will not damage the model, acetone and thinner will.

hope this helps :)

i rarely post any of my work but here is one that i'm working on that has no primer on. here's a 350z in tamiya white with a conservative amount of interference blue mixed in (the body is orginally of a silverish grey color). top coated with testors clear (i just had to finish the bottle no matter what... i just can't get myself to throw it away:rolleyes:). what i do like about tamiya acrylics is that they get 'etched' a bit by lacquers (light mist coats to begin with) and i found that this actually helps in smoothing/leveling out the base coat. a bit of a double-edged sword i guess...

the last pic is of the circuit if you are all wondering what is under the body.

a.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/6802383501.jpg
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/3629203502.jpg
http://files.automotiveforums.com/uploads/3099223503.jpg

Originally posted by Ranger_X


Well it really depends on the type of paint you're using and what you use to strip with. CSC and brake fluid are the most common strippers of paint. Ppl here who use modeling enamels like tamiya sprays say that csc won't dissolve the paint, and brake fluid will. Personally, I use automotive lacquer, which etches directly into the plastic, so csc and brake fluid will not dissolve this paint (only acetone will do this which will melt the plastic of the model) nor will they get underneath the paint if applied directly with no primer. On the other hand, when there's a layer of primer between the plastic and automotive paint, the csc will diffuse into the primer layer, and thus will easily let the paint slide off.

CSC and brake fluid will not damage the model, acetone and thinner will.

hope this helps :)

Yeah man, that helped a lot. I have a "messed up" Civic and I am going to try brake fluid to take the paint off and then finish the model.