Jaguar R4 launch pictures

http://www.pitpass.com/images/gallery/launches2003/jaguar/jaglaunch2003r4frside600.jpg

http://www.pitpass.com/launchjag2003.htm

Could someone perhaps post the other launch pics (Toyota & BAR)?

Alex

Hmm, I remember this car last year, was looking extremely fast and sleek... But it was all show but no go!

So we'll have to wait.
but, IMO this car has one of the best liveries of the whole grid

ciaoo Oli

The livery is pretty nice, but at least Jaguar admitted to going backwards on their design.:rolleyes:

Have you noticed the way they treated the rear end. Looks very complicated aerodynamically.

The livery is absolutely gorgeous. The rear end can either be seen as complicated or Jag getting desperate and trying some pretty "out-there" stuff... The best the drivers had to say about this car is that it's "a good, sound design".... certainly sounds like they were impressed. NOT!

Im not sure about that, im impressed and im sure alot of other people are as well.

Impressed by what? What could you possibly know about the car?

sorry, i didnt mean that as an offence. i mean, what could you possibly know about the car just by looking at it or reading the useless press stuff :)

Originally posted by crayzayjay
sorry, i didnt mean that as an offence. i mean, what could you possibly know about the car just by looking at it or reading the useless press stuff :)

Advice: never mind him, he's just posting in a lot of forums because he can. :rolleyes:

Whats the problem ales? Yes i know alot about this car. I have read intresting stuff about it that wasn't usless. Hey ales...shouldn't jay have edited his last post before that one??? I did that once and got hammered for it.:( Ales if you get confused about racing setups and not sure why, then what the heck do you think you know? Obviously if it was going to be complicated it probably wouldn't be the way it is.

Are you really gonna make me call you a tell-tale? :rolleyes:

Heck no.....Im gettin damn mad about some of the most stupid silly things i do and dont see anyone else getting nailed for it. Your cool man, At least you don't have anything against me I hope.....

scott...whats the jags top speed that they estimated...and its 0-60 time? 0-100 ?? thanks

Wait a minute here...This is a race car. What you talking about 0-60 and 0-100 times and the Estimated Top Speed. The top speed can be 150,200,250+mph. Its not like this car is set up for one thing. You have to think about the gearing and track sizes. These F1 cars don't run on Super Speedways. What i have got out of reading about this car is how it was to be so great b/c of the way the layout of the engine was and the unexpected bad luck. Myself i thought this team would have better luck than they did. So I want to here the 0-60 speeds. I have never seen a race car of anykind get tested doing this, but im sure the R4 can do 0-60 depending on how geard can do 0-60 2.0sec or under easy.

I aint got no problem wit' ya scott :D

Acceleration times can't be quoted for F1 cars. Besides with similar gearing they'd all be way too close for a number to be relevant on its own, if at all.

Originally posted by crayzayjay
sorry, i didnt mean that as an offence. i mean, what could you possibly know about the car just by looking at it or reading the useless press stuff :)

I'd mind what I write the next time round buddy IIWY ;)

You never know who is on the other line. Maybe it's an engineer and maybe he's a specialist in aerodynamics or something and in fact HAS a clue what he is talking about... It's not because you don't - I guess, but can be wrong here :rolleyes: - that others don't either, if you knwo what I mean. ;)

If one is into the technical details of F-1 he could actually tell from an aero point of view if it looks promising or not. Powerwise it's an other story of course. I think this years Jags looks far more promising that last years. If it's going to deliver will also depend on the job the people at Cosworth did.

1) I wholeheartedly disagree. F1 veterans, most recently Patrick Head, have said they can't look at a car and gather information about the aerodynamics because it's simply too complicated these days. If for one second i thought you could gather enough information from looking at these pictures to be able to assess whether the car will be good or not i wouldnt have made such a comment. But you cant, so i did.

I mean, look at it this way.. in the cutthroat business that is F1 today, why would any team want to show their car before ANY OTHER TEAM if that would give much away?

2) Whats IIWY?

1) :rolleyes: Why is it then that teams restrict more and more access to 'top illustrators' like Giordano and photographers like me... :confused: Because designs are so complex, no one can figure it out anyway?? I don't think so. Photographers used to have access to nearly everything until 10 years ago or so. Nowadays, they cover nearly everything and sometimes when we come to close, they chase us away, litteraly.

But then again, you always know better, don't you? ;)

2) If I Where You

Originally posted by crayzayjay
[B]1)
I mean, look at it this way.. in the cutthroat business that is F1 today, why would any team want to show their car before ANY OTHER TEAM if that would give much away?



For the sake of the sponsors hence the show they build around it, to name one of the reasons.

Great, another argument starting over nothing!

It was me who suggested not to take Scott's post too seriously as, based on his previous posts, he didn't seem too knowledgeable at all and also left an impression of a post-whore - someone who posts merely to rack up the numbers in the post count. Though lately he's starting to behave better - at times.

And no, a 16-17 year old will not e able to tell if the car wil be fast just by looking at it. Hell, Jaguar team didn't know what was wrong with their car after they designed that boat in the first place. :rolleyes:

Alex

Originally posted by huudo


For the sake of the sponsors hence the show they build around it, to name one of the reasons.

Guido, surely you've noticed that presentation cars are not exactly the same as the cars used at the first race.

Besides, for the sponsors' sake Williams went as far as "presenting the livery" - the 2001 car in the 2002 colours. :rolleyes:

But then again, you always know better, don't you?

just one thing, can you stop making this personal? :rolleyes:

Teams cover up their rear wings etc so that photographers dont come right up and take close snaps as that might reveal a little more than the team would like to, just like you said. The type of pictures that docome out dont reveal any big secrets, i mean look at the ones on the link.. what have we figured out? the car's green... hmmm..... interesting.... of course the team isnt going to reveal any big "secrets".. thats why we cant tell a lot about the car. did you completely ignore what i said about patrick head, and he was just one of many, or do you know better than him?

Do you think pleasing the sponsors by revealing your car months ahead of the start of the season and in doing so hurting your performance is worth it? and do you think the sponsors are stupid enough not to know this?

Alex, theres really no point closing the thread, we're both presenting our case and one of us will prove to have been wrong. And in doing so, we wil find out if someone can find out anything valuable about an F1 car at launch

I am not closing the thread just yet, providing it doesn't sink to personal attacks on any side.

I was presenting my arguments as well, which I hope anyone will comment on. If you want to haeva discussion between just the two of you - use private messages or emails or whatever.

Just what exactly are you arguing about, BTW?

Whether Scott02 could tell how fast the car is by looking at the pictures? Or whether it's possible by anyone to know how fast the car is by looking at presentation pictures? :rolleyes:

We are discussing whether you can tell if a car is competitive in a certain area or not by looking at the pictures, i.e. aerodynamics. I questioned whether Scott could find out anything worthwhile about the car's competitiveness by looking at the pictures or reading the press release, and although Scott didnt mind, Huudo seemed to object. We are putting forwards our arguments, nothing animal going on :hehe:

My view: if the people who designed the car have just an idea how competitive their car will be, I doubt anyone can. Unless they designed the R2 to be slow. IMO, not too much to argue about, but oh well. :uhoh:

Precisely. Why would you throw away whatever advantage you may have before the season has even begun? If anyone wants to dispute that let them try :rolleyes:

And no, a 16-17 year old will not e able to tell if the car wil be fast just by looking at it. Hell, Jaguar team didn't know what was wrong with their car after they designed that boat in the first place.

Alex, do you think i just looked at the car and thought i would blow off some shit i don't know. I been around racing for a long time and do it myself now. I race with full size cars with grown men. I read up on nascar/indy/F1.....ect articles all the time. When i said what i said it was probably something i have read somewere what stated that. So what do you know about this car?

Acceleration times can't be quoted for F1 cars. Besides with similar gearing they'd all be way too close for a number to be relevant on its own, if at all.

Thank you crayzayjay. That was just my point.

OK, just to clear some air in here ;)

The only thing I was trying to say, is to be carefull on what you write about others or before you start questioning their knowledge, unless you know them in person. I checked Scott's profile before I replied and saw he's a race driver, so I think he knows more about it them my little humbleness. Scott's reply says enough on this I think.

If you re-read my post, I didn't made any comments on how good the car will be except that it "looks" promising, and to my knowledge that is something else then "is" promising. Furthermore I was only suggesting that some-one else might have more knowledge on the subject then you or myself.

That's all.

Scott's reply says enough on this I think.

your right. Hey Huudo. you involved in any type of racing?

Im sorry Huudo i still cant agree with that. F1 cars' designs are so complicated it's simply impossible to tell whether its "promising or not", by looking at those pictures, let alone standing in front of the car, as many a team principal has stated. Im sure you're knowledgeable on many things, and Scott must know a thing or two about cars, but somehow i think i'll stick with Mr Patrick Head on this one. Something tells me he knows best :smoker:

Originally posted by Scott 02


your right. Hey Huudo. you involved in any type of racing?

Apart from karting as a hobby, not really. Just standing aside taking pictures, also as a hobby although recently an American company used one of my pictures to put in their brochure, so there's something developping there, maybe into a pro-photo racing career. Time will tell :)

Originally posted by crayzayjay
Im sorry Huudo i still cant agree with that. F1 cars' designs are so complicated it's simply impossible to tell whether its "promising or not", by looking at those pictures, let alone standing in front of the car, as many a team principal has stated. Im sure you're knowledgeable on many things, and Scott must know a thing or two about cars, but somehow i think i'll stick with Mr Patrick Head on this one. Something tells me he knows best :smoker:

Hey crayzayjay (I hope it's spelled correct - lol ;) j/k)

I'm not suggesting that an F-1 design is a simple matter and like stated there's a lot more involved in it that the outside look. But I'm still convinced (please read on why) that and Aero-specialist, like Adrian Newey, can see/tell/feel, by looking at a design if it's promising or not. I mean, by looking at a particular design his interest will be wakened to see how the competitors car will behave on the circuit. It's kinda difficult to explain. He sees a car, thinks that it is promising and as a consequence, will follow it on the track to see if it performs or not. To check if it can deliver on it's initial promise. Do you honsetly think that that's impossible? Why else would teams copy some solutions into their design that others developped - the Sauber 2001 new front end lay-out for example. Newey looked at it and copied the initial thinking behind into the MP4-17. The car didn't deliver cause of Mercedes lacking power, but the chassis was seen as one of the best. Williams didn't copy and was nowhere near Ferrari.

Anyway, back to the topic. By looking at the new Jag, my attention is drawn and I will follow it to see if it can deliver. But as with so many things, it might turn out a farce. Will have to wait and see.

as far as Patrick Head is concerned, I rate him very high as a Technical Director in tandem with Frank Williams but he's certainly not an Aero specialist. For sure he knows more about it then me, but probably his aero men in his team are knowing more about it then he does.

Just my thought. ;)

Originally posted by huudo



He sees a car, thinks that it is promising and as a consequence, will follow it on the track to see if it performs or not. To check if it can deliver on it's initial promise. Do you honsetly think that that's impossible?

....

Anyway, back to the topic. By looking at the new Jag, my attention is drawn and I will follow it to see if it can deliver. But as with so many things, it might turn out a farce. Will have to wait and see.



hey

i dont think its impossible, i just dont think you can tell anything until the car actually runs.... designs can look complicated and bring on the reaction "hey, that looks kind of interesting", whereas it could just be the team bolting on bits here and there in desperate attempts to make things work... its happened too many times, which is why im suspicious... i still cant imagine why they would show their car this early if genii like Newey could sneak a peak at some radical idea or ingenious design and ultimately benefit from it.. unless as Alex has said before, this car is substantially different to the one that will race.. who knows... we'll have to wait and see.. hopefully the new boys at Jag can perform..