thoughts on racism

There's be a fair bit of racism in my neighbourhood just lately over some misguided attemts to extort money from a film crew working on location.Using the much-overplayed 'cultural sensitivity' card,a couple of opportunists are trying to haul themselves onto the gravy train by making mischievous claims based on the distant past...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2186387a11,00.html

I guess I could consider myself lucky to be part of the ethnic majority in this country,and articles like this one http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/01/14/name.bias.ap/index.html

tend to reinforce that view.I work with a very diverse range of people,and have learned a lot from them.Ten years ago,I may have found terms like 'sand nigger' acceptable,but thesedays I do not.Is it just my imagination,or is racism becoming more prevalent lately?

where did that come from?:smoker2:

In regards to the stuff here in NZ.

I think they need to burn the Treaty take the land and say stuff them all.

I have lost all tolerance towards iwi's(tribes) now. Yes some of them may be good but some of them keep trying to extort money out of people for "beliefs" that they have.

It's time for this shit to end. The govt needs to stop giving them anything at all.

I'm not sure if racism is more prevelent today then in the past. In general I think more people are concientious about it now. With more and more diverse people moving into areas where they weren't before, we may see more and more. Its one thing to say you're (third person - nobody here) not a racist, but its another to prove it when a different race moves into the neighborhood.

To the Kiwis: Remember that thing about the taniwha a few months back?

To the uninformed: A taniwha (Ta-nee-fa) is like this spirit that lives on the bends of the Waikato river (correct me if I'm wrong)...basically the tribe up there said the taniwha doesn't want them to build a highway at this spot...so apparently they just paid them and then they said "OK!"...now, if I'd gone and said, God doesn't want you to build this here, they would've laughed and me and run me down with a bulldozer...

What's this kiwi thing about?

Originally posted by Toksin
To the Kiwis: Remember that thing about the taniwha a few months back?

To the uninformed: A taniwha (Ta-nee-fa) is like this spirit that lives on the bends of the Waikato river (correct me if I'm wrong)...basically the tribe up there said the taniwha doesn't want them to build a highway at this spot...so apparently they just paid them and then they said "OK!"...now, if I'd gone and said, God doesn't want you to build this here, they would've laughed and me and run me down with a bulldozer...

Here's an article by the BBC on the subject.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2397707.stm

As I understand it,the matter has been resolved,and no money was paid to the local Maori.A stretch of the highway has been realigned to lessen the impact on the sensitive site.

Misinformation about Maori cultural issues,and bogus claims relating to Maori heritage only serve to damage race relations in New Zealand.If the press were a bit lighter on the sensationalism,and more accurate and balanced in their reporting,we wouldn't have nearly as much racial tension.


As for the Treaty Of Waitangi,it is very much like a brain-dead accident victim on a life support machine.It costs a fortune to run,sucks up public funds that are needed for more worthwhile causes,and will never resolve anything,but nobody is brave enough to pull the plug and admit that it's all over.

my thoughts on the treaty of waitangi.


If the Maoris want "their" land back then the European settlers should take back ALL (and I maen ALL) that they brought to the country (cars, power, bricks, etc) away from the Maoris and see how long they last.


The treaty is not worth the piece of paper it was written on. What good is a document that the maori translation of it is quite different to the European version?.







And NO I am not racist I hate everyone equally

Originally posted by tazdev

If the Maoris want "their" land back then the European settlers should take back ALL (and I maen ALL) that they brought to the country (cars, power, bricks, etc) away from the Maoris and see how long they last.


The treaty is not worth the piece of paper it was written on. What good is a document that the maori translation of it is quite different to the European version?.

Classic example of how this obsolete piece of paper divides,rather than unites us.The world has moved on so far since 1840 that the Treaty has no relevance any more.England is no longer the colonial ruler of New Zealand,and the Maori have integrated more or less completely int the westernized lifestyle and live their day-to-day lives in much the same way as any other contemporary society.Maoiri and non-maori have interbred to the point where mostpeople who claim to be maori could just as rightfully claim to be of European descent..It was a contract made between some,but not all, Maori,and the head of state of England.All of the original people that the contract was intended to serve have long since died,and the world has moved on.The sooner New Zealand becomes a republic,ditches the treaty and drafts a constitution based on the future rather than the past,the better.

Other Kiwis are reported to be concerned about images of Taranaki/Mt Egmont being used in the film.

Mr. T...Every time it says something about "filming in Taranaki" I have a hard time keeping a straight face. ;) :p


Unfortunately I am lacking the insight that those of you residing in New Zealand have on this subject of Maoris' tribal rights... However, speaking from a generalized perspective, I think that lately, there have been a lot more cases of people buckling to minorities' absurd demands for fear of appearing 'racist'. I also think that this problem will be lessening over the next few hundred years as people interbreed more, because the lines between race will be much less defined and it will be harder for anyone to play the race card. I personally dislike race being a question anywhere, from the census to college admissions forms, to the ACTs. If they don't ask, then it's much harder to discriminate, no matter whom they're discriminating against.

Originally posted by boingo82


Mr. T...Every time it says something about "filming in Taranaki" I have a hard time keeping a straight face. ;) :p



endoscopy?:eek:

Originally posted by boingo82

... However, speaking from a generalized perspective, I think that lately, there have been a lot more cases of people buckling to minorities' absurd demands for fear of appearing 'racist'.

ahhh yes the term I like to use is "reverse racism".

I have encountered times when an aplicant for a job was declined because they were "not an ethnic minority".:confused: The company didn't want to appear racist, obviously this isn't strictly a New Zealand thing then

Originally posted by tazdev


ahhh yes the term I like to use is "reverse racism".

I have encountered times when an aplicant for a job was declined because they were "not an ethnic minority".:confused: The company didn't want to appear racist, obviously this isn't strictly a New Zealand thing then

That happens all the time here in Admissions to Uni. Two equal students will apply, and the minority will get in b/c of the "quota" for minority education. It gets worse, but I don't want fingers pointed at me right now....

On one hand we have in the blue corner, the view that some in the media and the community have chosen where they paint the 'tribal representatives' as some sort of extortionists.

In the red corner, you could also possess the understanding of the history and significance of Mount Taranaki to the kaumatua.

I'm not going to paint sides but I am going to give you some context.

Now for those who aren't aware - in 1840 the British signed a treaty with the Maori people that gave the Maori protection and rights as British subjects in return for sovereignty and protection. This is the Treaty of Waitangi.

The British sought to purchase land from the Maori for the incoming settlers from Europe. Private ownership in land was an alien concept to the Maori who held the land as having mystical importance and were very reluctant to relinquish it.

In particular, the very fertile land around Mount Taranaki was sought after. It looked ideal for agricultural farming but the local maori weren't interested in selling the land. So the colonialists took up arms and together with the rule of musket and sword, acquired vast tracts of land through confiscation and other means in the region.

They also displaced the local people and then proceeded to slash and burn the vegetation for resowing to grasslands. Which devasted the food sources and traditional homelands of the people. The worst incident was probably @ Parihaka where Maori employing passive resistance were massacred by colonial troops.

It was only recently in the 1990s that the past injustices were acknowledged by the Crown and land still in Crown ownership was transferred back to the rightful owners due to the illegal method of acquisition along with some compensation and importantly an apology.

The kaumatua (the elders) of the tribe believe that the mountain is a sacred place and with significant cultural significance. To some degree, you can understand in the 150 odd years since all of this stuff that particularly with many pieces of legislation in New Zealand acknowledging the rights of iwi (the local people) that you do need to consult the iwi with regard to these issues.

The real hard thing having been in the situation where the filmmakers and road builders have been in - is that the representation of the iwi is fragmented and to a large extent self-appointed. It can be frustrating, expensive and fruitless but there are plenty of other folk who have stuffed perfectly good projects with their demands too - I won't even start on the mess with ALPURT phase 1B, the North Shore Busway or the realignment of SH18.

The taniwha issue was related to interests of the iwi in the alignment of the road in the Long Swamp construction zone. That's their right under the Treaty and the rights recognised under the Resource Management Act.

I'm going to guess that there was some underlying issue which the iwi wanted addressed but chose to use the taniwha issue to get dialogue with the government roading body TRANSIT to establish what it wanted changed. It's not my culture but someone obviously within the iwi recognised some cultural significance regarding the site.

I'm not disagreeing with T - just trying to balance the coverage. The media likes soft targets.

Positive Action...

As for positive discrimination... hmmmm the jury's out on that. But a level playing field assumes that we all have the same opportunities to enter educational institutions - which isn't the case in reality. Now what the well-intended legislators and regulators would like to do is that they have identified a group that is under-represented in the course and elected to quota additional entrants from that group into a course.

For instance, if you live in a 8 or 9th decile area (ie you live in the 10-20% poorest areas by household income) the schools academic rating is usually proportionally worse. Kids from poor homes ain't by definition any less intelligent and studies/results from transferring intelligent kids from these areas in 1 and 2 decile area schools have demonstrated that given a break these kids can excel in their studies far better than their local schools.

Now those students who enter under the quota programmes still have to pass the course and perform to the same academic standards as everyone else doing the course. So what it supposed to do is provide access to the learning nothing more so that part of the playing level is a bit more level.

Having known a few folk who entered under the quota, they are some of the hardest working, most stressed and grateful students who've walked up the aisle in the Town Hall to graduate. They have to work harder than anyone else because of the relative deficiencies in their education.

Is that so wrong as well? Absurd? I don't know about that either. Most of the time a lot of the ethnic groups DON'T want the quotas because they believe it reflects on the students who do get through the system.

Another argument you could also put is are academic grades the best way to select students? Maybe, maybe not - you are effectively discriminating on the ability to perform in examinations not on their total potential as a medical practioner, surgeon or specialist based on academic performance which isn't in itself a particularly good indicator of on the job performance.

In my experience as a manager, just because someone is an A grade student doesn't mean that I'll select them to work for me. I have candidates for jobs I offer that have great academic qualifications - doesn't necessarily mean I'll employ them - there's a whole pile of things that matter like attitiude, experience, personality and energy.

My dad has a useless degree in chemical engineering. This is mainly because he is white and the chemical companies around here have quotas. When he was applying when I was born (he had a kid now and had to get a job), he applied everywhere. Only one replied, and it was just to tell him that no one was going to hire him because the government had imposed the quotas on them. They said, "Mr. Perdue, I'm sorry, but we can give you a job because we only have 9 positions to fill. Now, I understand that you have a 4 year degree, but we have to hire nine people only. Seven of them have to be black, 1 has to be mexican, and the other has to be a woman." He still remembers those words, mainly because he could be making 4x what he is now. Reverse Racism indeed. And my economics teacher says that it is the white man's fault that the african american are poor. Stupid shit.

I am African-American. I work for everything I get; very hard! I have taken no handouts or "freebies" from anybody. I worked to get through college and took out loans when necessary. I went to a predominantly African-American university. I have things I could be bitter about but that's really not gonna help me be a productive member of society now is it? Not only do I face racism from other cultures, but also from my own because I'm not "ghetto-oriented". I live in a home which I worked hard to buy, I pay my bills every month, I make sure my children are well taken care of, I make sure my wife is happy. I did not get my job because of a quota; I got it because nobody wants to work with a bunch of juvenile delinquents that nobody really cares about; black AND white. I really don't care about what color people are because ignorance comes in all shapes, forms, and colors. I do think the reverse racism thing is out of control and I think too many minorities play the race card unnecessarily just to get something for free or close to free. I choose to pay my own way and to teach my children to do the same. Nothing shoul be totally free in this world because you have no respect for something you didn't have to work for. I get frustrated often because of the way a lot of rappers portray themselves in their videos with the gaudy cars, ridiculously large mansions, and God-awful jewelry!! :rolleyes: I only wear a wedding ring and a small stud in my ear. I would prefer to have a Nismo-tuned R33 Skyline than a Hummer or whatever with dubs on it. My car has factory hubcaps and tires specified by the manufacturer rather than wheels costing more than the car. I DO have a nice stereo system but I listen to almost anything if it sounds good in my car; which is almost anything :D I don't care for derogatory terms such as "ricer", "nigger", "cracker", "honkey", "spic" , "wetback", "towel-head", or any of the terms people care to use. I like universal words such as "asshole", "dickhead", "idiot", and so on.to eliminate racism would take an enormous amount of consciousness that we in our current state of evolution aren't capable of in my opinion however we CAN be mor aware of controlling the ignorance which we ALL have hidden inside each of us. I'm black; so what? I'll never ask anybody for anything without offering to pay for it! I prefer to not ask at all. I'm not angry but rather happy to be able to state my opinion about a serious subject in a cool place such as AF; which is made up of a bunch of people from all over the world and, for the most part, get along great! I think there's a small lesson the world could learn from us! Especially if they check out the AF Model of the Year contest!!
;) :cool: people please take care and I apologize if I've offended anyone. :grey:

i've encountered racism but not on a large scale (i.e.. denied for something b/c of race) but that doesn't mean that it's not there....its kinda funny b/c when i was in school i applied for a CADD Tech position and got it.....was the only "brown" person there and again at my present job....only person upstairs that's brown...others downstairs work in the shop and wear uniforms...i guess they probably needed some ethnic diversity. i dunno.....not to be arrogant or anything but a short time ago when i was in high school i realized something...my skin isn't black it's brown...hated the term black b/c i wasn't...i began to mark other or cross out black and put in brown on my applications just b/c they weren't referring to me when they used the term "black"...as far as i'm concerned the only thing on me that's black is my hair..but i'm skeptical on teaching my 2 kids this b/c i know that if they were to go around saying that they're brown and not black they would be laughed at and the subject to ridiculed buy the older people for "forgetting where they came from" and saying that "they're not proud of their heritage".....still doesn't change the fact that their skin and my skin is brown and not "black"....just my .02

Originally posted by BLU CIVIC
i've encountered racism but not on a large scale (i.e.. denied for something b/c of race) but that doesn't mean that it's not there....its kinda funny b/c when i was in school i applied for a CADD Tech position and got it.....was the only "brown" person there and again at my present job....only person upstairs that's brown...others downstairs work in the shop and wear uniforms...i guess they probably needed some ethnic diversity. i dunno.....not to be arrogant or anything but a short time ago when i was in high school i realized something...my skin isn't black it's brown...hated the term black b/c i wasn't...i began to mark other or cross out black and put in brown on my applications just b/c they weren't referring to me when they used the term "black"...as far as i'm concerned the only thing on me that's black is my hair..but i'm skeptical on teaching my 2 kids this b/c i know that if they were to go around saying that they're brown and not black they would be laughed at and the subject to ridiculed buy the older people for "forgetting where they came from" and saying that "they're not proud of their heritage".....still doesn't change the fact that their skin and my skin is brown and not "black"....just my .02 I like that! Only I'm bald now so I have no more black hair!:( :)

Are white people really white?

anyone heard of the resent arrests of terrorists in the uk and the shooting of a special forces policeman ?

Its made people go fascist and racist near where i live there is a hotel that they are letting asylum seekers stay at at the tax payers expense

I don't agree with them being put up at our expense nor do i agree with letting anymore in untill we sort our country out (since labour has f***ed it good and proper) but the racism towards these people is a bit extreme. Grafitti lots of letters, moaning and groaning abuse. Everyone is worried that they are terrorists. Its' mental

Originally posted by freakray
Are white people really white?

NO AND YES.....IN THE WINTER YES:D



i remember my first encounter with racism.....i remember it clear as day...i was a junior or senior in h.s. back in 96 or 97 and i had just got off the school bus and was waking this girl i liked home... we were crossing the street and there was this elderly caucasion souple in a car at the stop light...as we were crossing the street i saw the lady lock her door...i'm not one to get angry or even mad at anything but i so badly wanted to go over there break their window, snatch that lady out and proceed to shack her violently all the while asking her what was her problem ..instead that incident stayed with me and is teaching me to not pay attention to someone elses ignorance....some say i'm wise being only 23 but not as much as others who went through this before me

Originally posted by Monkey-Magic-S15-R
I don't agree with them being put up at our expense nor do i agree with letting anymore in untill we sort our country out (since labour has f***ed it good and proper) but the racism towards these people is a bit extreme. Grafitti lots of letters, moaning and groaning abuse. Everyone is worried that they are terrorists. Its' mental

i'm sure that you've noticed that the same thing is going on here with anyone that is from the areas pertainting to pakistan

Xenophobia is natural. People will always have a fearful reaction to something that is different, it's just a matter of how fearful. There are exceptions to this, some people, embrace different things without fear, but these people are very few. If you think you're not xenophobic, it's much more likely you're just fooling yourself, and that you are in fact, fearful of change and different things, even if just a little.

Racism and cultural differences are often confused. Aside from a few minor differences such as facial features, skin pigmentation and height, we're all pretty much the same. What actually matters, is the culture you have been raised in and embraced. For example, a child of Russian descent raised in North America, and then taken back to Russia, will have little more in common with his Russian relatives than his genes. Same with an Indian, an African American, an Asian... the list goes on. A white child raised in central China will have a very different outlook on life than the same child would have if he/she were raised in New York.

A law suit came up in this area not too long ago. A black community church was trying to sue CSX (a railroad corporation) and a few other companies for reperations (Spelling on that one?) because the "white owners of these companies forced slaves to build these railroads and every part of their business." I don't think that they are entitled to a dime. The work was done when slavary was legal. And anyway, if it weren't for white crackers, they'd still be building railroads and picking cotton. It'd be better than it was over in Africa. At least the slaves ate here.

Originally posted by 94 Mustang GT
A law suit came up in this area not too long ago. A black community church was trying to sue CSX (a railroad corporation) and a few other companies for reperations (Spelling on that one?) because the "white owners of these companies forced slaves to build these railroads and every part of their business." I don't think that they are entitled to a dime. The work was done when slavary was legal. And anyway, if it weren't for white crackers, they'd still be building railroads and picking cotton. It'd be better than it was over in Africa. At least the slaves ate here. Who do you think they were picking cotton for ?! I don't like derogatory terms; I prefer caucasian. I see your point about the reparations lawsuit but why does it have to have a bitter tinge to it? I don't believe people signed up for slavery thinking it was a Carnival cruise! :rolleyes:

just to inject some light-heartedness into this thread.

White people are actually colored people.

We get embarrassed = we turn pink
sunburnt = we can go red
get sick = we go green
get cold = we go blue


point made??

If you want to be technical about it, many of the african-americans who were shipped over to be slaves in America had already been enslaved back in Africa, by their "own people".

The thing that angers me most is when a minority person is pulled over because he is speeding, street racing, running red lights, driving erratically, etc., and claims he got pulled over "just because I'm black" or "just because I look mexican". Then he spits on the cops, they get mad and kick his ass, and suddenly it's a case of racial discrimination. I say, if you're breaking the law, expect to get pulled over no matter what color you are. I don't care if "all the white folks were speeding too and they didn't get pulled over", YOU were breaking the law and therefore should have been ticketed.

And I don't like the work "Caucasian" because I don't like how it sounds. And it's too long to boot, as are African-American and Hispanic. I think we should stick to 5-letter, easy-to-spell words like Asian, White, Black, etc. because I don't have all day to spend typing.

My favorite commentary on Racism to date:
Andy Richter Controls the Universe
Episode 201 O.A.D. 12/01/02

Jessica announces to the group that there will be a $3,000 reward for anyone who recommends a qualified, diverse candidate for a job opening they have. Andy, Wendy, Keith and Byron submit their choices and eventually Wendy’s candidate is picked.

The next day an African American man walks in named Ted. Andy is thrilled! This is the person that he recommended. It turns out Wendy’s selection was placed in another job at the last minute. Andy decides that he’s going to buy two new big screen TVs.

Back in the office, Andy and Ted are busily working and getting along great when someone walks in to offer Andy tickets to “Riverdance”. Andy not only declines, but he starts trashing “Riverdance” and the whole Irish culture. Ted is deeply offended and tells Andy that he’s half- Irish.

Jessica calls Andy to the conference room to speak with their diversity department. He is sent to diversity sensitivity training and when he returns to his office, he tells Byron that he thinks he’s learned his lesson, “Keep my big mouth shut!”. Byron tells him, “No! That’s not the lesson. We live in a color-blind society. Accept people for who they are.”

Andy apologizes to Ted and a few days later Ted’s beautiful sister, Jackie, walks into the office. Cutting to chase, Andy starts dating Jackie and on one particular date they start talking about baby names. Jackie says that if she has a baby boy some day, she wants to name him “Seamus”. Andy can’t understand why and Jackie explains that it’s an Irish name and she wants to get back to her culture. Andy tells her that she’s not living in Ireland now though, maybe she should go with a more traditional American name- afterall, don’t we live in a color-blind society?

Jackie is insulted and Andy decides to make it up to her by taking her to see “Riverdance”. At the end, Andy realizes that this whole thing started for the wrong reason. He doesn’t hate “Riverdance” because it’s about Irish people. He hates it because it’s terrible.
(Andy Richter Controls the Universe is a TV show, and there was a monologue in this episode that was very good... still looking for the full text...)

My personal opinion is that we're all one 'race:' human. We're just different 'breeds,' like dogs. ;)

Oh, well... Works for me... :o

I'm not a racist, I'm a culturalist... I can say for the most part, that I dislike Quebecois, based on my experiences I have had with them. I have never actually been to Quebec, but I had to take french classes in school, and that time could have been devoted to studying something I will actually use in western Canada, such as mathematics, or science, or improving my english! This is not the sole reason I discriminate against them, I find as a culture, they are selfish, and not mindful of anyone outside of themselves, their friends, and their family. You might say all people are like this, but believe me, they are much more like this than most other cultures.

RANT RANT RANT!

So even though they are white, I don't like them mostly...

However, I have known many Natives, Asians, even one African American guy(I live in a small town in Canada), and they were culturally the same as I am.

Before you label someone as a racist, try to decide whether it is the skin colour, or the culture they are biased against.

If you want to be technical about it, many of the african-americans who were shipped over to be slaves in America had already been enslaved back in Africa, by their "own people". I am MORE than aware of that fact; technically:)
The thing that angers me most is when a minority person is pulled over because he is speeding, street racing, running red lights, driving erratically, etc., and claims he got pulled over "just because I'm black" or "just because I look mexican". Then he spits on the cops, they get mad and kick his ass, and suddenly it's a case of racial discrimination. I say, if you're breaking the law, expect to get pulled over no matter what color you are. I don't care if "all the white folks were speeding too and they didn't get pulled over", YOU were breaking the law and therefore should have been ticketed.
I can see this will end up being pointless to discuss this since you seem to be speaking on an isolated incident. If I'm wrong then I can take my punishment likethe man I am but if I'm falsely accused of something, then there is a proper way to handle it! I personally wouldn't act in a manner such as that!:rolleyes: I can respect most everyone's opinion without resorting to the assumption that because I fit a certain ethnic description, I'm going to act a certain way :rolleyes: Which kinda sounds like racism but that's just an opinion; not necessarily my opinion but it could be a valid opinion. Why are we so quick to judge others without looking at our own shortcomings?! (Rhetorical question).

Originally posted by tonioseven

I can see this will end up being pointless to discuss this since you seem to be speaking on an isolated incident. If I'm wrong then I can take my punishment likethe man I am but if I'm falsely accused of something, then there is a proper way to handle it! I personally wouldn't act in a manner such as that!:rolleyes: I can respect most everyone's opinion without resorting to the assumption that because I fit a certain ethnic description, I'm going to act a certain way :rolleyes: Which kinda sounds like racism but that's just an opinion; not necessarily my opinion but it could be a valid opinion. Why are we so quick to judge others without looking at our own shortcomings?! (Rhetorical question).

Didn't mean that you personally or every African-American person would react like this. Sorry if it seemed like that's what I was inferring.

On the contrary, I was providing an example of one of the more extreme circumstances when someone will pull the "race card". Are there instances of racial discrimination by the police? Yes. But are there other instances when people try to avoid paying consequences for their actions by throwing in the race card? Also yes. I sincerely resent people doing that, just as it makes me mad when certain people on these forums claim that cops are "picking on them" because the cops are "jealous" of their car.

In the city in which I reside, it would be VERY EASY to be racist, as there are a grand total of maybe 100 black people in a city of 100,000. In my high school, out of 700 students, there were 0 black students 3 of the years, the fourth year there was 1. He was one of the most popular people at my school, not because he was black but because he was just friendly to everyone. I say it would be easy to be racist because it is very abnormal to see a person of another color, so it would be easy for people to develop unsubstantiated prejudices against them. I think it heartening that I haven't seen a single incidence of racial prejudice here.

For what it matters, I am white, but I've got an aunt who was raised in Cameroon, and she married my uncle who I don't think has ever seen the sun in his life. Their wedding pics were quite humorous, as she's about as dark as a person can get, in a white dress, and my pasty uncle was wearing a black suit. It was impossible to get the lighting so you could see both of their faces at once! They still laugh about this.

No problem!:) After the birth of my first son, I started driving like an old man pretty much anyway :p I don't care for teh playing 0f the race card either; I believe that if somebody has done me wrong, it'll work itself out. I'll get over it and move on if at all possible:cool:

i know i'm going back a few posts...but , as you all may or may not know, they're wentn't any african slaves in america....they were indentured servents....worked in the fields or housekeeping then after a couple years they got a few acres of land...tools and were sent on their way....but everyone always finds a cheaper method of doing things...hince slavery :(

and the railroad thing...things like that just makes me mad b/c it's giving"us" a bad rep., i think they suck just b/c they didn't do any of that work and the want to reap those benefits...let say my great great great grandfather was president and was killed during the first year of his presidency....does that mean i can go back and say "he died during his first year of office and i want to finish his other 3 years"...sorry it doesn't work that way....what's done is done and if, only if, there was something in writing that justified their claim, then i don't see a reason as to why they need to be compinsated for anything....my ansestors picked cotton...i want my share of fruit of the looms :hehe: not to make a joke out of some of the things that they take seriously but i bet it's just a whole lot of people who aren't so well off backed by people like oprah, jessie, that reverend guy, and anyone else who has money to back them and if they win it will be called "another win for african-americans everywhere"...i'm sorry, where's my trophy :confused:

Cash reparations would be huge mistake. Putting $$ in peoples hands only makes other people angry and frustrated. See the Oklahoma City bombing survivors and their reaction to the 911 fund.

Originally posted by YogsVR4
Putting $$ in peoples hands only makes other people angry and frustrated.

That works both ways...in the end, money is the ultimate evil. Look at what we've become...conditioned to work for money...

Originally posted by NSX


That works both ways...in the end, money is the ultimate evil. Look at what we've become...conditioned to work for money...

:rolleyes: If I had a dollar for every time someone said that...

"Money" as we call it is nothing more than a standardized work exchange program. I work at a newspaper. Rather than they pay me by giving me 71,568 newspapers per year as pay (that's what my wage converts to in subscriptions) they pay me in "money", which enables me to trade my work at the newspaper for tangible goods and or services produced elsewhere. Do you have a better idea?? Like maybe we can do things commune-style, everyone doing what they're best at and sharing in the common wealth? Yeah, that'll work. Everyone will just sit around on their lazy asses because there would be no direct incentive for them to work.

Know what's the root of all evil? Life.

Originally posted by boingo82
Know what's the root of all evil? Life.

Then again; I guess we could then argue there is no evil; just differing thoughts. Where's the ideal world they have in Star Trek...:o