God's payback
Heep
10-04-2001, 12:22 AM
gang$tarr
10-04-2001, 04:41 PM
maybe some country put it in afganhistan? biological war
kris
10-04-2001, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by gang$tarr
maybe some country put it in afganhistan? biological war
If it was, it was not the U.S.
That shit is against the Geneva Convention.
maybe some country put it in afganhistan? biological war
If it was, it was not the U.S.
That shit is against the Geneva Convention.
gang$tarr
10-04-2001, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by kbslacker
If it was, it was not the U.S.
That shit is against the Geneva Convention.
did you here about the case of anthrax in Florida..... this is startin to freak me out, i have a feeling that human kind is going to destroy itself
If it was, it was not the U.S.
That shit is against the Geneva Convention.
did you here about the case of anthrax in Florida..... this is startin to freak me out, i have a feeling that human kind is going to destroy itself
Moppie
10-04-2001, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by kbslacker
That shit is against the Geneva Convention.
And since when has the US followed the rules of the Geneva Convention?
Bloody hell man, they spent 3billion dollars arming the same ppl that they are now wanting do attack.
Do you really think a country as powerfull and arogant as the US really cares about the silly Geneva Convention?
Look at Vientam, how many times were rules of engagment broken there? How much defoliant was used? how much Napam was dropped?
That shit is against the Geneva Convention.
And since when has the US followed the rules of the Geneva Convention?
Bloody hell man, they spent 3billion dollars arming the same ppl that they are now wanting do attack.
Do you really think a country as powerfull and arogant as the US really cares about the silly Geneva Convention?
Look at Vientam, how many times were rules of engagment broken there? How much defoliant was used? how much Napam was dropped?
gang$tarr
10-04-2001, 11:37 PM
looks like moppie hates america
Moppie is a terrorist
btw, you need better news sources.... the CIA armed and trained people in afganhistan. All those people are the rebels in afganhistan... they are the ones oposing the taliban.
Moppie is a terrorist
btw, you need better news sources.... the CIA armed and trained people in afganhistan. All those people are the rebels in afganhistan... they are the ones oposing the taliban.
Heep
10-04-2001, 11:39 PM
Well, Kris was my source, so blame him :D:D:D
kris
10-04-2001, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Moppie
And since when has the US followed the rules of the Geneva Convention?
Bloody hell man, they spent 3billion dollars arming the same ppl that they are now wanting do attack.
Do you really think a country as powerfull and arogant as the US really cares about the silly Geneva Convention?
Look at Vientam, how many times were rules of engagment broken there? How much defoliant was used? how much Napam was dropped?
When you go through the training that I have, regarding this issue, then maybe I will listen to you, until then, get your facts straight.
30 years ago, do yo uthink the US was as big on that as they are now? No. So you cannot compare a war from then, with a war now.
As far as arming afgan people, do you know why? It was so they could defend themselves. Whats wrong with that? Maybe we should have let Russia do whatever they wanted. Then chances are we wouldnt be in the situation we are in now. There is nothing better than biting the hand that feeds you right?
And since when has the US followed the rules of the Geneva Convention?
Bloody hell man, they spent 3billion dollars arming the same ppl that they are now wanting do attack.
Do you really think a country as powerfull and arogant as the US really cares about the silly Geneva Convention?
Look at Vientam, how many times were rules of engagment broken there? How much defoliant was used? how much Napam was dropped?
When you go through the training that I have, regarding this issue, then maybe I will listen to you, until then, get your facts straight.
30 years ago, do yo uthink the US was as big on that as they are now? No. So you cannot compare a war from then, with a war now.
As far as arming afgan people, do you know why? It was so they could defend themselves. Whats wrong with that? Maybe we should have let Russia do whatever they wanted. Then chances are we wouldnt be in the situation we are in now. There is nothing better than biting the hand that feeds you right?
gang$tarr
10-04-2001, 11:48 PM
i think moppie hates america, cause he's always talkin shit about the U.S.
most of which is untrue, and how would he know living pretty much as far as you could possibly be away from the damn country
most of which is untrue, and how would he know living pretty much as far as you could possibly be away from the damn country
Moppie
10-05-2001, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by kbslacker
When you go through the training that I have, regarding this issue, then maybe I will listen to you,
I think thats the problem.
A military that dosnt do some degree of brain washing to its soliders becomes very open to problems of Low Moral, and high rates of desertion.
Im not saying you have been totaly mislead, or lied to, just that the US military has an intrest in only telling you part of the story, and twisting in such a way that you guys are always made out to be the "good" guys, and everyone who thinks differenly is the "bad" guys.
Its a classic form of seperating your individual identity from the rest of humanity, and has been documented by many diffrent people in many diffrent discplines for thousands of years.
If you were told the whole truth about everthing that has occured in the world as the result of US intervention, be it seceret or open, then Im sure your views would be quite different.
How much are told by your superiors about the US terriable history of War crimes, that dates back to WWI. Or about the number of different nations that have been turned against each other, or even against them selfs with the help of US intervention.
Go do a little resurch into Indonesia. Currently NZ and Australian soilders are maintianing and uneasy peace in East Timor, after the Indonesian army and security forces Ransacked the country when it cried for independance. They used Weapons supplied by America, and have been trained by Americans. The indoneasions soon stoped any actual conflict, but continued to supply and secertly support and incourage Indonesian Militia groups who Attacked and killed UN aid workers, as well as New Zealand and Australian soilders. They wern't using AK47s, but American built M16s.
The US offered no assistance, and paid absolutly no attention to what was happening.
Why, well East timor has nothing to offer the US, in terms of Resources or in Trade they are insignifcant. So 10s of thousands of people were killed and wounded, and 100s of thousands were left homeless and in a far greater state of suffering than that felt by a small number of people in the US after the 11th.
Yet while the US is making a huge fuss, and preparing to kill as many people as it can, the Poor East timorese are left with nothing, but a little hope after thier first independant elections were a success, and the good nature of the UN peace keepers from nations all over the world, except the US. And before you make some statment about these people only being rice farmers, their not, there Doctors and Lawyers, and Accountants, and Fincial controlers, and Marketing executives, and Private bussiness owners. They have degrees, and educations, and possibly a far better understanding of the world than many US citizens.
The indonesians mean while get away scott free, Infact its more than likly that the US will continue to equipe and arm them, as the are pretending to be an ally to the US, something the US needs in the politicaly unstable south east aisan region. But what will happen if the US decides that Indonessia is no longer needed, that thier role of US puppet is no longer valid. Will they go the same way as Iran, Iraq, or Egypt, helping hide and foster Anti US terrorism? Or will they decide that they are in need of more power in thier region and goto war to get it.
Only to have the US support one of the new enemies when Oil is discovered.
Starting in 1979 the US armed and trained Different factions of the Tribes in Afganistan. This mostly consisted of the groups that formed what is now known as the Taliban. (source, ABC, BBC and CNN news)
If the Russia had been able to capture Aganistan its more than possible it never would have become a safe haven for terrorism, and the events of the 11 sept would never have happened. Instead there would merely be a huge Human Aid Crisis, as people starved after the collapse of the USSR.
Of course you can agrue that had the US not surported the Taliban and the USSR had won then it wouldnt have collased so quickly, or it might have continued its advance into the middle east, and we would currently be struggling to survive in a Nuclear Winter.
Since 1940 America has taken a very arogant attitude towards the rest of the world, and only acted when its own interests were at stake.
It has shown very little regard for people who may be suffering, but unable to influence the US in any negative or positive way.
There is so much more to the world than the often sheltered view feed to many Americans, As a population you are very small in comparison to many nations, yet as an ecnomic and military power you are the top of the world. However this in no way gives you any right to think that your way is best, and that the rest of the world should follow it.
In fact the rest of the world is largly moving on with out you, leaving you behind in your 1950s idleaism while we all face up to the reality of immense inequality and the destruction of the environment.
Try crawling out from under your rock, read some international news and see the world from a non-American perspective.
It might be a little scary at first, but you will also find it very liberating.
When you go through the training that I have, regarding this issue, then maybe I will listen to you,
I think thats the problem.
A military that dosnt do some degree of brain washing to its soliders becomes very open to problems of Low Moral, and high rates of desertion.
Im not saying you have been totaly mislead, or lied to, just that the US military has an intrest in only telling you part of the story, and twisting in such a way that you guys are always made out to be the "good" guys, and everyone who thinks differenly is the "bad" guys.
Its a classic form of seperating your individual identity from the rest of humanity, and has been documented by many diffrent people in many diffrent discplines for thousands of years.
If you were told the whole truth about everthing that has occured in the world as the result of US intervention, be it seceret or open, then Im sure your views would be quite different.
How much are told by your superiors about the US terriable history of War crimes, that dates back to WWI. Or about the number of different nations that have been turned against each other, or even against them selfs with the help of US intervention.
Go do a little resurch into Indonesia. Currently NZ and Australian soilders are maintianing and uneasy peace in East Timor, after the Indonesian army and security forces Ransacked the country when it cried for independance. They used Weapons supplied by America, and have been trained by Americans. The indoneasions soon stoped any actual conflict, but continued to supply and secertly support and incourage Indonesian Militia groups who Attacked and killed UN aid workers, as well as New Zealand and Australian soilders. They wern't using AK47s, but American built M16s.
The US offered no assistance, and paid absolutly no attention to what was happening.
Why, well East timor has nothing to offer the US, in terms of Resources or in Trade they are insignifcant. So 10s of thousands of people were killed and wounded, and 100s of thousands were left homeless and in a far greater state of suffering than that felt by a small number of people in the US after the 11th.
Yet while the US is making a huge fuss, and preparing to kill as many people as it can, the Poor East timorese are left with nothing, but a little hope after thier first independant elections were a success, and the good nature of the UN peace keepers from nations all over the world, except the US. And before you make some statment about these people only being rice farmers, their not, there Doctors and Lawyers, and Accountants, and Fincial controlers, and Marketing executives, and Private bussiness owners. They have degrees, and educations, and possibly a far better understanding of the world than many US citizens.
The indonesians mean while get away scott free, Infact its more than likly that the US will continue to equipe and arm them, as the are pretending to be an ally to the US, something the US needs in the politicaly unstable south east aisan region. But what will happen if the US decides that Indonessia is no longer needed, that thier role of US puppet is no longer valid. Will they go the same way as Iran, Iraq, or Egypt, helping hide and foster Anti US terrorism? Or will they decide that they are in need of more power in thier region and goto war to get it.
Only to have the US support one of the new enemies when Oil is discovered.
Starting in 1979 the US armed and trained Different factions of the Tribes in Afganistan. This mostly consisted of the groups that formed what is now known as the Taliban. (source, ABC, BBC and CNN news)
If the Russia had been able to capture Aganistan its more than possible it never would have become a safe haven for terrorism, and the events of the 11 sept would never have happened. Instead there would merely be a huge Human Aid Crisis, as people starved after the collapse of the USSR.
Of course you can agrue that had the US not surported the Taliban and the USSR had won then it wouldnt have collased so quickly, or it might have continued its advance into the middle east, and we would currently be struggling to survive in a Nuclear Winter.
Since 1940 America has taken a very arogant attitude towards the rest of the world, and only acted when its own interests were at stake.
It has shown very little regard for people who may be suffering, but unable to influence the US in any negative or positive way.
There is so much more to the world than the often sheltered view feed to many Americans, As a population you are very small in comparison to many nations, yet as an ecnomic and military power you are the top of the world. However this in no way gives you any right to think that your way is best, and that the rest of the world should follow it.
In fact the rest of the world is largly moving on with out you, leaving you behind in your 1950s idleaism while we all face up to the reality of immense inequality and the destruction of the environment.
Try crawling out from under your rock, read some international news and see the world from a non-American perspective.
It might be a little scary at first, but you will also find it very liberating.
Moppie
10-05-2001, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by kbslacker
As far as arming afgan people, do you know why? It was so they could defend themselves.
Sorry I forgot to add, not it wasn't.
It was so the US could test its weapons against Russian troops and weapons with out actualy going to war.
Its was so the US could gain a potential ally in the Middle east.
And it was so the US with its greater and more efficant use of recourses could force the USSR into an econmic collapse.
The very same reasons the USSR entered into the Vietnam war, in almost exactly the same way. They also spent large amounts of money secertly equiping and training the NVA.
And funnly enough the result for the USA was very similar to the result for the USSR of the USA equiping and training Afganistan.
Maybe you should get the full story of what actualy happened.
Not the patriotic BS feed to you so you'll surrender you life with out questioning your orders.
As far as arming afgan people, do you know why? It was so they could defend themselves.
Sorry I forgot to add, not it wasn't.
It was so the US could test its weapons against Russian troops and weapons with out actualy going to war.
Its was so the US could gain a potential ally in the Middle east.
And it was so the US with its greater and more efficant use of recourses could force the USSR into an econmic collapse.
The very same reasons the USSR entered into the Vietnam war, in almost exactly the same way. They also spent large amounts of money secertly equiping and training the NVA.
And funnly enough the result for the USA was very similar to the result for the USSR of the USA equiping and training Afganistan.
Maybe you should get the full story of what actualy happened.
Not the patriotic BS feed to you so you'll surrender you life with out questioning your orders.
Heep
10-05-2001, 12:32 AM
Holy essay, Batman.....:eek: :eek:
Moppie
10-05-2001, 12:32 AM
Oh yeah, Im sorry If I came off a little offensive.
I know that last post was.
Its just that there is a lot more going on in the world than we all realise, and if our information source is a littel tainted it can distort what we see.
Thats not our fault, its the fault if a corrupt media.
I understand how you must feel living in the US. The US hasnt had an attack on its home turf since 1812. (pearl harbour was only a terittory in WWII, not a part of the US).
This would create a great feeling of safety and reasurrance, that has just been shattered, not only did over 5,000 people die, but 250million people just had thier ideals and concepts of reality ripped out from underneath them.
It interesting seeing how people in the US, in Europe and in other nations react to this. Some have similarites, e.g. Europe hasnt been attacked by a forign power for a longer period of time than the US, and so I think feels a similar feeling of shock, while people in countries that are at war, or have recently been at war fail to see what the big fuss is about.
I know that last post was.
Its just that there is a lot more going on in the world than we all realise, and if our information source is a littel tainted it can distort what we see.
Thats not our fault, its the fault if a corrupt media.
I understand how you must feel living in the US. The US hasnt had an attack on its home turf since 1812. (pearl harbour was only a terittory in WWII, not a part of the US).
This would create a great feeling of safety and reasurrance, that has just been shattered, not only did over 5,000 people die, but 250million people just had thier ideals and concepts of reality ripped out from underneath them.
It interesting seeing how people in the US, in Europe and in other nations react to this. Some have similarites, e.g. Europe hasnt been attacked by a forign power for a longer period of time than the US, and so I think feels a similar feeling of shock, while people in countries that are at war, or have recently been at war fail to see what the big fuss is about.
Moppie
10-05-2001, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by Heep
Holy essay, Batman.....:eek: :eek:
LOL!
Thanks man I needed a laugh after that!
Its good to see we can still retain out senses of humor. :D
and KBS dont take this personaly, I dont mean it as a personal attack.
:smoker2:
and this is damn good for my post count to.
Politcal revolutionary post whoreing. I wonder If I can major in that.
Holy essay, Batman.....:eek: :eek:
LOL!
Thanks man I needed a laugh after that!
Its good to see we can still retain out senses of humor. :D
and KBS dont take this personaly, I dont mean it as a personal attack.
:smoker2:
and this is damn good for my post count to.
Politcal revolutionary post whoreing. I wonder If I can major in that.
Heep
10-05-2001, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Moppie
LOL!
Thanks man I needed a laugh after that!
Its good to see we can still retain out senses of humor. :D
No prob. :D
Sorry, but I didn't actually read all that....I don't read anything longer than 5 lines :D I miss a lot :D
LOL!
Thanks man I needed a laugh after that!
Its good to see we can still retain out senses of humor. :D
No prob. :D
Sorry, but I didn't actually read all that....I don't read anything longer than 5 lines :D I miss a lot :D
Jay!
10-05-2001, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by kbslacker
When you go through the training that I have, regarding this issue, then maybe I will listen to you, until then, get your facts straight.
30 years ago, do yo uthink the US was as big on that as they are now? No. So you cannot compare a war from then, with a war now.I took this to mean that the modern day U.S. military is training it's soldiers to be very worried about the Geneva convention and other rules of engagement. Probably to avoid unauthorized conflicts like those evident in Vietnam.
When you go through the training that I have, regarding this issue, then maybe I will listen to you, until then, get your facts straight.
30 years ago, do yo uthink the US was as big on that as they are now? No. So you cannot compare a war from then, with a war now.I took this to mean that the modern day U.S. military is training it's soldiers to be very worried about the Geneva convention and other rules of engagement. Probably to avoid unauthorized conflicts like those evident in Vietnam.
Moppie
10-05-2001, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by jay@af
I took this to mean that the modern day U.S. military is training it's soldiers to be very worried about the Geneva convention and other rules of engagement. Probably to avoid unauthorized conflicts like those evident in Vietnam.
Ahh, yeah I didn't quite get that take on it.
I know after Things like the my lai massacure the US army made a better effort to control its troops, and im certailny not aware of any similar situations in the most recent conflicts. (gulf war, Yugoslavia, Hiati etc).
But there is more than one way to break the Geneva convention.
It dosn't have to be by an individual soilder.
I took this to mean that the modern day U.S. military is training it's soldiers to be very worried about the Geneva convention and other rules of engagement. Probably to avoid unauthorized conflicts like those evident in Vietnam.
Ahh, yeah I didn't quite get that take on it.
I know after Things like the my lai massacure the US army made a better effort to control its troops, and im certailny not aware of any similar situations in the most recent conflicts. (gulf war, Yugoslavia, Hiati etc).
But there is more than one way to break the Geneva convention.
It dosn't have to be by an individual soilder.
gang$tarr
10-05-2001, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by Moppie
Yet while the US is making a huge fuss, and preparing to kill as many people as it can
if the U.S. wanted to kill as many people as it can, it would have already happened.... there are more things i wanted to comment on but i wont
Moppie just stop talkin..... that really offended me, and i wanna flame you so bad.. but i wont
How would you know anything like that anyways? i think you're being brain washed too, just like people in afganhistan have been brain washed to think america is bad... because there whole lives people have been telling them america is bad
How would you know? Do you spy on the U.S. military with binoculars from the other side of the world?
Yet while the US is making a huge fuss, and preparing to kill as many people as it can
if the U.S. wanted to kill as many people as it can, it would have already happened.... there are more things i wanted to comment on but i wont
Moppie just stop talkin..... that really offended me, and i wanna flame you so bad.. but i wont
How would you know anything like that anyways? i think you're being brain washed too, just like people in afganhistan have been brain washed to think america is bad... because there whole lives people have been telling them america is bad
How would you know? Do you spy on the U.S. military with binoculars from the other side of the world?
koh
10-05-2001, 07:26 PM
i think moppie is right in some aspects, there is no country that is perfect. in matter of fact the united states is somewhat hypocritical, they opposed an international judicial system but yet they demand that afganistan hand over bin laden without concrete evidence. every country acts on its own interests, if the united states really did follow rules and regulations they would be conquered by ussr
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