Synthetic oil, is it worth it?

Have you ever wondered why synthetic oil is more expensive than petroleum oil and if it's worth it? Well, I've done some research and this is what I came up with. The reason it is more expensive is because of how it is made. The name synthetic means that it is chemically synthesized from different hydrocarbons. They start with a hydrocarbon, then derive the gas ethylene, and then chemically synthesize that into the base stock for synthetic oil polyalphaolefin or PAO.
So what does all that mean to you? Because the oil is synthesized from the same molecule, the molecules of the base stock of synthetic oil are of all the same size and there is no impurity. This causes the oil to be more stable, and will enable it do a better job of lubrication. So when you heat the oil it is less volatile, or when you freeze the oil it will pour when petroleum oil is solid. Also, over extended use the synthetic will retain its same lubricating quality longer.
In contrast petroleum oil's molecules are of different sizes and shapes, and some of the molecules are undesirable. I hate to point out the obvious but they do pump it out of the ground. Refining will remove most but not all of the impurities. The oil's viscosity and lubricating quality will change overtime because the smaller molecules will burn off. This process will also cause acids and sludge to form in the oil.
I'll end by saying that I'm using synthetic oil in my vehicles and I know they are cleaner inside (check out the vehicle pictures on my web page), and the oil does a better job of lubrication. I've overcome the sticker shock of the oil by using it longer. I only change my oil every year or 25,000 miles and the oil filter every 6 months. My cars are better lubricated and I save time and money.
Don't try that with petroleum oil.
For more info check out my website. I also have some Chinook Helicopter pictures from Desert Storm.

Welcome Steve! Cool info thanks.

Your welcome.
Here's some more oil trivia. My friend just bought his wife a Porsche Boxter (Nice Guy) and the manufactures recommended oil change interval is 15,000 miles using mobile one. Considering how much money he paid for the car he said he was hesitant to let it go that long. I think as long as your engine is tight and you filter the oil properly, the synthetic oil will retain its lubricating quality.
I fly Chinook helicopters for the military. They use MIL SPEC synthetic oil and oil analysis for the turbine engines and the 5 transmissions. Oil samples are taken every 25 hours if the samples are good the oil stays in! It makes sense because the oil is good and they can monitor the components for failure before it happens.

Yea, I use Synthetic Oil. I wann use Royal Purple, but my dad won't buy it for me.

I read about this recently myself, and I believe that synthetic motor oils were first developed in the late 1960's by Mobil for use on oil rigs in the North Alaskan region. Apparently its properties help preserve its consistency in cold conditions as well.

So if I were to ask you which one is better, would there be any if's, and's and but's or would you just tell me which one?

It all boils down to: Is synthetic better than natural?

And how often should the two be changed safely?:confused:

I read synthetics were first developed during WW2 by the Germans. I guess they were having some problems with petroleum oil during cold weather operations on the Russian front. Since then synthetic oil has been used exclusively in aviation because of the tempurature extremes and reliability concerns, you can't pull to the side of the road if the engine quits when your flying.

Dillweed asked which is better? Synthetics are much better. Petroleum oil should be changed in accordance with the manufactures recomendation, which is ussually 3-7000 miles. When Mobile one first came out they advertised it as the 10,000 mile oil (or something like that). They don't reccomend that anymore. They may have changed the additives, I dont know why they changed. AMSOIL recommends changing the oil at 25,000 miles or one year and change the filter at six months. For mechanically sound engines this will work fine, but if you have an older engine that is running rich and blowing gas by the rings the oil will become contaminated. Also, I think it would be a good idea to change the oil in the spring to get rid of any condesation that may have accumulated over the winter. I change the synthetic oil every year and the filter at six months in both of my vehicles. I also use premium oil filters. Mobile one or AMSOIL oil filters are both good. http://www.syntheticoilonline.com

What about changing your type of oil after considerable mileage, let's say changing from synthetic to petrolium and vice-versa?

I have a Nissan Stanza 1990. The old synthetic treated engine blew at 150,000 miles due to transmission caused over-reving.
I got a 51,000 mile engine installed and I'm wondering if I should go synthetic on this one.

Another question comes up: Can I treat a syntheticaly oiled engine with Prolong as I am accustomed to?
And is it reallt worth the money for the Prolong?;)

If you redline an engine the synthetic oil won't help. The synthetic oil may help it rev higher because of reduced friction, before mechanical failure occurs.

If you switch to synthetic oil you may want to flush your engine first. Synthetic oil does a great job of cleaning your engine. If there is sludge buildup from petroleum oil the synthetic oil will clean the sludge and saturate the oil filter prematurely.

Quality synthetic oil doesn't need additives. As for prolong check out the Federal Trade Commission settlement. (Link Below) There are similar cases for Slick 50, Motor up and some other additives. They do have some nice commercials though.

Federal Trade Commission (http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/9909/prolong.htm)

I'm going to use synthetic from now on then.

What would the best be in your opinion.

I also live in Canada so I'm not sure to have the same brands as U.S.:rolleyes:

There are allot of synthetic oils to choose from. I was using Mobile One for a few years with good results. I switched to AMSOIL because of the test data comparisons and the additive package, this oil is also good quality. Check out my website for comparison test data of different oils. Mobile One is probably available at any auto parts store, and you can order AMSOIL through catalog sales. Also, I would recommend a quality filter. Mobile One and AMSOIL filters are made from synthetic cellulose and fiberglass fibers. They are more efficient and will hold more dirt. They cost twice as much as a paper filter, but I think it's worth it.
Good luck.www.syntheticoilonline.com (http://www.syntheticoilonline.com)

There is a bit of controversy regarding which oil is best for breaking in an engine. Which is better?
But non-syntetic normal engines run fine with regular oil. My mom's stanza went about 340 000 km (200 000miles) before we traded it in, and the engine ran great!
When I get a good car, I will use synthetic.

PS, is it good to use synthetic oil in an old car (like a 68 cougar with a 289)

I wouldn't trust the milage reccomended by any oil company. I'm gonna stick to the manufacturer's reccomended, because they made the car, they know how long the oil should last in normal operating conditions. Certain engines are able to go longer without an oil change because of the fact that they can hold more oil.

Oh yeah, TheMan5952, you claim to be a man, but you need your daddy to buy you your own oil. Suck it up and buy your own like a man.

Sure you can use synthetic oil in older engines. Make sure the API Service code (SH,SJ,CF,...) and weight are correct. Different engines may require a different additive package. Also, you may want to flush the engine before switching to synthetic oil. Synthetic oil will clean the sludge left behind by petroleum oil and may clog the filter prematurely.
Most American manufactures recommended oil change interval is based on petroleum oil. Most people do not change their oil enough when using petroleum oil. That practice will damage an engine. I bought a used Ranchero with a 351 that seized the distributor and damaged the valve train because of sludge buildup which caused lack of lubrication. All caused because the previous owner neglected changing the oil.
Synthetic oil does not break down like petroleum oil does. That is just a fact. Therefore, as long as the oil is not contaminated by water or excessive blowby it will last longer. Most people would be better off using synthetic oil especially if they are prone extending their drain intervals.
I don't think it is wise to criticize Father Son relationships. My dad used to buy my oil, food... And I learned from him while working on a farm, but that is another subject.

syntheticoilonline.com (http://syntheticoilonline.com)

It's funny Steve that you're in the oil selling buisiness and you only stay or post where it talks about oil.

Trying to bring your advertizing into AutomotiveForums by chance?

Could you tell me how long you could go on synthetic when you drive 99% highway, about 75 miles every day?

That's not the point, I'm just kidding ya

I've used Mobil One in my 95 Maxima since about 15,000 miles, changing every 3000. Now have 82,000 on it and it runs smooth as silk, no tune ups except I changed plugs at 60,000 mi. The price difference with regular oil really isn't much of a factor if you think about how it compares with the other operating costs of a car. Changing it yourself also saves money.

I think waiting 25,000 miles for changes is way too long, and no car manufacturer would recommend that. And dirt builds up no matter how good the oil is.

Sean, Hey neighbor. I live in Harrisburg.
Did you know that Porsche recommends 15,000 mile oil change interval using Mobile One? It seems a little odd that I can put 15,000 miles on Mobile One in an expensive Porsche and only 3,000 miles in my Chevy.
On the other hand I had a valve cover gasket leaking in my jeep. I cleaned the engine with a pressure washer and got some water in the oil. That required an immediate oil change. Oil and Air filters are important also. (As previously discussed.) Most of the dirt in the oil comes through the air filter. I don't use paper air and oil filters. I am going to have my oil analized after my next annual oil change in October. I will post the results to my web site. I would rather base my opinion on tests results than any thing else.
Dillweed, In my posts in stupid questions I actually talked about the differences of SHP and BHP. I also mentioned that I an an Instructor Pilot and fly CH47 Helicopters for a living. (7500 SHP) Synthetic oil is a hobby. I am a dealer so I can buy it at reduced cost. Last year I cleared 35 dollars (after taxes). WOW! Let's just say I'm not ready to give up flying for a living, but I do think synthetic oil is worth talking about and I enjoy our conversation.
I emailed Igor when I got started and was upfront about who I am and what I wanted to talk about. He asked me not to get "too comercial." I have been trying to keep the discusion generic.

Steve,

I know you are a dealer for AMSOIL, but do you have any opinions about which retail synthetics may be better than others? I would have used Castrol in my car had it come in 5W-30, but only Mobil One had that grade, and have stuck with it over the years.

I visited your website, amazing story about your motorcycle accident!

Originally posted by TheMan5952
but my dad won't buy it for me.

Oh jeez.

Thanks for the info, I now fully understand your situation.
Hope you weren't offended; I like to tease a little.
I too enjoy our conversing.:)

On my web site I have posted tests of different oils. These tests compare the anti wear characteristics of different oils, by measuring the wear of 4 ball bearings under a controlled load while being lubricated. Castrol Syntec, Mobile One and AMSOIL all did pretty good. The differences noted by the tests are probably because of the antiwear additives that are added to the oil. Other additives help seals to swell, anti foam, and detergents and disperssants to clean carbon deposits. Neutralizing additives are also added to the oil to counter the effects of acids formed by oxidation. I think you get what you pay for. The reason some oils are more expensive is because of the quality base stocks and additives.
With all that said, Sean pointed out that dirt build up is a primary consideration. That is absolutely true. I use a foam air filter and a synthetic cellulose fiber oil filter. The air filter keeps the dirt from entering the engine in the first place, so it doesn't get blown by the rings. Then the better oil filter will more thoroughly clean the oil. This will allow the oil to be clean longer.
As to how long can I go between oil changes? That depends on who you ask. I would say if you are using petroleum oil use the manufacturer recommendations. I am extending my drain interval using synthetic oil and premium filters according to the oil manufacturers recommendations. It has been 6 months and I replaced the oil filter only. The oil still looks good but I will have it tested after another 6 months.
That motorcycle accident sure freaked me out. I was a rebel without a clue and I think God used that accident to open my eyes.
Hey Dillweed, keep on teasing. I'll put my pretty pink feelings on hold. Thanks.

This is an interesting article about Mobil 1. They tested two GM Quad 4 engines after 200,000 miles with an oil change interval of up to 15,000 miles. They did the same thing to a BMW after 1,000,000 miles.
Mobil 1 Article (http://www.mr2.com/ARTICLE/Mobil1.html)
My wife's Beretta has a Quad 4 engine with 153,000 miles on it, and it still runs great. This is the car that I am going to have the AMSOIL tested after a year of use. I changed the oil filter at six months of use.

Woot! Knew there was a reason for using Mobil 1 all these years, and I change every 3000 miles religiously. Only problem is I have the new car bug, kind of lusting after the Acura TL type S, but can't justify the purchase with my car still running great, and trade in value on my 95 Maxima sucks with 82,000 miles, no matter how well cared for it is.

That is a nice problem to have. Whoever ends up with your Maxima will get a good deal.
My old Jeep Cherokee has 235,000 miles on it. I figure by not having car payments; it paid for my wife's college tuition. I may just keep on driving it to see how far it will go, it still runs and looks good.
On the other hand I can relate to the new car bug. We were looking at a supercharged Bonnie last month. That's a car for old farts with an attitude.

I'm changing my oil on Saturday and I got some Mobil 1. I'm excited:D How long can I expect to leave it in? I mean, I'll check it occasionally, but what do you think? 15K?

Hey, I heard that once you use synthetic you can't go back to using "regular" oil! Now, that sounds like Bullshit to me, but is there any truth to it? I don't even see how that could make ANY sense.

Any answers?

All teh oil companies seem to be touting 15K mile oil change intervals, which would make it MORE cost-effective than mineral oil. It also depends what roads, if they are dirty, more often. If its the autobahn (at a normal speed), who knows:confused:

Petroleum and synthetic oils are compatible. Semi synthetic oil is actually a mix of the two.
Use a good oil filter if you are extending your interval. A paper filter should be changed around 3,000 miles. Paper filters don't hold as much dirt and are not as efficient as synthetic cellulose fiber filters. Even a premium filter should be changed before 12,000 miles.
As far as how long using Mobil1? Porsche recommends 15000 miles in their Boxster. I also agree with Chris that it depends on the conditions that you are driving and the condition of your engine. I just went over 12,000 miles and 8 months using Amsoil and it still looks pretty good. I changed the filter at six months.
www.syntheticoilonline.com (http://www.syntheticoilonline.com)

How do you change the filter without changing the oil too? Do you drain it out and then reuse it? If so I would just add new oil.

I'm not completely sure, but on my car, at least, the filter is located so high up that I think it might be possible to simply unscrew it and not lose much oil....not sure though.

Yep, your right. Your oil filter is higher than the oil pan where the oil drains back into. The oil filter contains an anti drain back valve that hold oil in the filter. This keeps the oil filter full of oil and reduces the amount of no lubrication time on start up. When you unscrew the filter that oil will drain out, wether you drain the oil or not.

That's right Steve.

When you engine isn't turning your oil stays in the bottom of the pan, so how could it drain from the filter hole? It doesn't!

You do have to add one half quart of oil approx. because of what your filter retains.

Yes I would have to also say Synthetic oil is a 100 times better than standard Motor oil......I myself use Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic in my VR6 and I would even think of using something else. If you like to keep your car running well for time to come use Synthetic, but I you like having problems with your car and if you like shelling out money all the time keep using regular oil:smoka:

I've had numerous RX-7s all with 13b rotary engines. I had 3 with over 150k miles highest with 260k miles, engine is great and revs like no other.

What do I use ? Non-synthetic oil. Mazda says not to use it so I don't. The rotors lubricate themselves and synthetic oil will leave carbon deposits that will not burn off.

So I stick to 3k mile oil/oil filter change intervals. Now, when I was a naive 15 year old and got my first RX-7 with 120k miles. I wanted to start learning about cars, but my dad always said: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" so the oil wasn't changed in 30k miles and the car never had a tune up. But the car was fine even with that old "dino" oil, so it doesn't come to a surprise that synthetics could last 25k miles.

So will I switch ? Well I gave it a try on an old pist-on engine and it does look "cleaner", but what does that proove ?

It is all a matter of preference, but one thing I'll have to say is that I will never take it to a dealer or a place like jiffy lube unless I can see the work performed on my car, so I just do all the work myself :)

I am curious of one thing though... how can you just replace the oil filter w/o draining the oil, when the filter is located upside down on the bottom of the engine ?

Thanks for reading and sorry if I bored you.

As was mentionned earlier, the oil falls to the bottom of the pan when the engine is off. The oil filter is higher than the pan, and therefore the oil doesn't leak out when you remove your filter.

You will however have to add 1 quart or so to compensate for the oil that stayed in the filter when it was removed.

I'm not familiar with rotary engines. Synthetic oil has a higher flash point and is more stable than petroleum oil. So I think it would be fair to say that synthetic oil does too good of a job of lubrication for your rotary. It doesn't burn off as redily as petroleum oil , which in most cases is a benefit.
Anyhow, you are asking for trouble by not changing petroleum oil according to the manufacturer's recommendations. The oil will break down and acids and sludge will form.
Only a synthetic oil with quality additives can be designed for extended drain intervals. My opinion is based on test results and oil analysis. I have over 15,000 miles and 10 months on my last oil change. I will have the oil analized and the results posted to my web site this fall.