You guys need JATO bottles

It this ugly thibg typical for you guys? Sad!

Originally posted by TcobrA
It this ugly thibg typical for you guys? Sad!

Is this kind of stupidity typical for you guys?? VERY SAD!!
What was the point of this post? Was there one? Was it to show everyone how extremely worthless you are? I'm thinking it was, and you're proven your point perfectly:rolleyes: Don't post here if this is all you have to contribute. Save your time, AF.com's bandwith, and our anger for something that actually deserves it:rolleyes:

it's JATO rockets, not bottles.

do you even know what JATO stands for? Jet Assisted Take Off.

IBialreadyknewthateventhoimaredneckhater

Well,
I guess I struck a nerve. It just so happens that the ugly green Honda pictured in my last post was traded for a real car. The young fool that presented it had put $20,000 worth of after market stuff in it to make it go fast and claimed sub-13 second 1/4 miles (perhaps with a stiff tail wind and some C4). Maybe it would have gone faster if he had some more stickers on it. I was just wondering if all you HONDA tuners were under the influence and if so, what drug makes that green abomination look good? BTW, the young "tuner" got $9K in the trade (nothing for the add-ons!!!). The dealer selling it says "buy the car, get the accesories for free..."
As for JATO, they are commonly refered to as "bottles" and are used to get loaded aircraft off the ground or to assist same in short runway take-off.
Just thought I'd poke some Honda/Accura eyes here because you folks seem to revel in coming to V8 sites to talk trash. Remember, that Honda engine displaces about as much as a coke bottle. The blower on my 8 displaces more...........

You are extremely gay. If he did put $20k into the car to make it go fast, he'll smoke the shit out of you. Your car is fast, yes, but definately not unbeatable. I'll destroy it, I know A LOT of Honda's that will DESTROY it. So don't go writing checks your car can't cash. You'll end up looking a lot dumber than you already do:rolleyes:

First,
You have NO idea what cars I have.

Second,
I have colaborated on SEVERAL designs including:

Ford Mach 1
Ford SVT Lightning
Ford SVT Cobra
Steeda Q-400
Saleen S-281
Saleen S-351
Saleen S-7
Shelby Series 1
FAST CARS OUT OF THE BOX son........Made faster with my help....

I know what kind of power you can get out of a Honda Engine.
They are good for closed-circuit racing but..........will it last 100,000 miles?

The Mopar 426 HEMI still dominates at the drag strip. The Dodge Ram Charger boys INVENTED drag racing in the 50s and have gained MUCH gound since.....
Domination includes the FE-427, FE-429 the Chevy 454, 350, etc.....

If your car can run 9.22 @ 161 MPH then PERHAPS your car will beat mine -- frankly I don't care -- but I have retired from drag racing..... I have moved on to closed tracks.......

Real PERFORMANCE CARS ARE REAR WHEEL DRIVE:
BMW M Power and Dinan
Ferrari
Lamborghini
Maseratti
Astin Martin
Lotus
Ford
Chevy
Dodge
Shall I go on?

The slowest cars I own are:
'94 SHO (Yamaha Engine) -- FWD
'02 Impreza WRX -- AWD
'96 Ford Winstar Minivan -- FWD -- slightly modified -- 225 Hp at the wheels -- which crushed a 'Mugen Power' sticker-bedecked, Winged and Fart-canned Honda YESTERDAY on Rte 28 in Salem NH!!!


Why is it that you kids seem to spend all sorts of $$$ to try and make your Hondas perform like 60's era Muscle Cars? What car put the fear in Vin Diesel in F&F? Hmmmm? Keep spending money in Japan..... better yet, go to school.

As for my sexuality, I think my wife would disagree with you but, actually your opinion means LITTLE to me.

Originally posted by TcobrA
First,
You have NO idea what cars I have.

Second,
I have colaborated on SEVERAL designs including:

Ford Mach 1
Ford SVT Lightning
Ford SVT Cobra
Steeda Q-400
Saleen S-281
Saleen S-351
Saleen S-7
Shelby Series 1
FAST CARS OUT OF THE BOX son........Made faster with my help....

I know what kind of power you can get out of a Honda Engine.
They are good for closed-circuit racing but..........will it last 100,000 miles?

The Mopar 426 HEMI still dominates at the drag strip. The Dodge Ram Charger boys INVENTED drag racing in the 50s and have gained MUCH gound since.....
Domination includes the FE-427, FE-429 the Chevy 454, 350, etc.....

If your car can run 9.22 @ 161 MPH then PERHAPS your car will beat mine -- frankly I don't care -- but I have retired from drag racing..... I have moved on to closed tracks.......

Real PERFORMANCE CARS ARE REAR WHEEL DRIVE:
BMW M Power and Dinan
Ferrari
Lamborghini
Maseratti
Astin Martin
Lotus
Ford
Chevy
Dodge
Shall I go on?

The slowest cars I own are:
'94 SHO (Yamaha Engine) -- FWD
'02 Impreza WRX -- AWD
'96 Ford Winstar Minivan -- FWD -- slightly modified -- 225 Hp at the wheels -- which crushed a 'Mugen Power' sticker-bedecked, Winged and Fart-canned Honda YESTERDAY on Rte 28 in Salem NH!!!


Why is it that you kids seem to spend all sorts of $$$ to try and make your Hondas perform like 60's era Muscle Cars? What car put the fear in Vin Diesel in F&F? Hmmmm? Keep spending money in Japan..... better yet, go to school.

As for my sexuality, I think my wife would disagree with you but, actually your opinion means LITTLE to me.

Look left, at my buddy info...It reads 1995 Camaro Z28. So all of the anti-japan comments are null and void. Secondly, no one is disputing that V8s are the king of the crop when it comes to drag racing, look at my sig, "No replacement for displacement, no not even a turbo". I agree with you on that. OUR PROBLEM is with you coming into this forum and being ignorant, stupid, and wasting space and time. If you want to talk about how horrible honda's are, go into the ford forum, or the chevy, or basically any forum BUT this one, and everyone will agree with you and no one will assualt your intelligence OR sexuality. As long as you're doing that here though, that's all you should ever expect. I'm not your son either:finger:

While I will agree with you on most points, you don't need to say things the way you are. People see them as flames and won't give you any respect. Had you posted in a less ignorant manner people wouldn't get on your case. Hell, I agree, I hate most Hondas and feel they are worthless for drag racing because of the lack of low end torque, but some people like to go against the grain I suppose. You should have a chat with hybridsol sometime.

I know what kind of power you can get out of a Honda Engine. They are good for closed-circuit racing but..........will it last 100,000 miles?

You gotta be kidding me to ask this question if you claim to know about cars and Hondas and the power they put out. Hondas if you don't already know (and I'm sure you do) are one of the most reliable cars out on the roads today. They can outlast many other cars out there. I have yet to see a Domestic outlast what most Hondas do. Then again, the more power you pump through it, the shorter it'll last. ;)

And just to see what you do think you know about Hondas, what's the fastest one you have seen, heard of, or read about?

Sometimes you must demonstrate absurdity by using absurdity.

I do think some folks are a bit misguided and uninformed about some aspects of this argument.

I have, in my 41 plus years on this planet, seen no evidence that a Honda, or any other foreign offering, is any more reliable or longer lived than any American car I have owned. I once had a Dodge Dart Slant 6 that ran for 22 years and OVER 425,000 miles with simple routine maintenance. At some point the weather and road salt of New England turned it into a pile of orange and brown dust. A '78 Toyota my wife and I owned was so reduced by 1984! (That's 6 SHORT years!)
My brother is a big foreign car enthusiast but gave up on Hondas when that wonderful timing belt broke on his CRX just 20K miles after the requisite 60K replacement, while he was rushing to surgery (he is surgeon). He now drives Audis and BMWs exclusively.

In general I have no problem with the engineering of these cars. It is quite good, actually. However, some of the (for the lack of kinder words) backwards-baseball-caped IMBECILES I see driving sticker-bedecked, winged, and fart-canned Civics, cause me to take pause and consider just how far beyond the chimpanzee we realy are.

Remember, it is easy to copy and improve. The Japanese have done it with cars and electronics. Thankfully some of us, Americans, have learned lessons and wised up. I feel bad when young people, filled with propeganda, call their own people, products, and way of life, inferior and cast aside the real achievments of this Nation. Some of these young mush-filled skulls simply parrot opinions that may have carried some truth back in say, 1977, that are just no longer true.

As far as fast Hondas are concerned, the Honda F1 program is quite impressive. As for honda-based drag cars, the ones i have seen, that have had some success up here at NEDW, had FEW honda parts left in them. So few, in fact, the owner of one nifty "Accord" was forced out of the class he appled for, and was forced pro-street, where he was embarrased by some nice Z-28s, Mopars, and one NASTY B&Sed 347 cid Paxton-motivated and nitrous oxide inspired '88 5.0 LX, MINE -- but as I said, I am retired from drag racing.

Now smarten up before a group of Japanese tourists buy Hawaii, raise the Arizona, and turn it into Honda parts. Or do you find the flying of the American Flag offensive?

OOOOOOO-RAHHHH!

I think that car looks pretty nice? the colors pretty flashy but its not all bad. Oh yea. read this muscle vs technology http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71493&highlight=hybridsol

Where in my post did I ever say I don't like American cars? I'm just saying what I've seen true about them with my own eyes. I've seen more people that own Mustangs have problems with them than (not just Honda) but import car owners in general. Bu I do agree with points of your post. The domestic cars of today have come a LONG way since the ones of old, and are far more advnaced (obviously) and reliable than their older muscle siblings. Lots of imports are plauged with various problems of their own, but like I said, it's what I see and have been told by owners of their respectable vehicles. If I had a domestic of old, I'd quickly chose a '70 Buick GS Stage 1, it's IMO the most truest sleeper out there, looks like a grandma's car, yet can even put an SS Chevelle to shame given the right conditions. :) Of newer domestics? Well the Neon SRT-4 seems quite promising from all the reviews I've read (Even Sport Compact Car mag, one noted for it's coverage of imports ranks it higher than any other pocket rocket "muscle" out there). The new Mustang Cobras with the 390hp supercharged motor. I did however see one get spanked by a B16 built motor powered '93 style Civic hatchback a couple weeks ago (very good race I might add), but then the guy blew his motor (the Civic driver that is) about a week later, oops. Running a sub 13 second NON nitrous or even turbo powered Honda is quite a respectable feat no doubt.

On the fast Honda bit I threw out there, I'll agree with you there as well, on the F1 part that is. I'm just waiting to see what Honda will do and how they will do once they're IRL career sees it's first race. I can't colaborate much on the drag portion as I'm not much into it (I'm an SCCA auto cross guy), just what I've read (seen some feature articles on the top IDRC cars). But I'd imagine many parts in most of them aren't standard Honda parts, but aftermarket for purpose of strength and such. Like a Honda piston or black in stock form could handle 700hp. :rolleyes: But then again, any TRUE drag car that's doing exceptional times isn't running stock or even manufacture parts anyways. Although the current "world's fastest Civic" driven by Steph Papdikas does run a STOCK Honda 5 speed tranny, with modified gears and some strengthening of the casing of course, but it's still stock they say. Only the creators of it know the truth to it as with any race car.

In closing I'd like to say though, even though apparently my post came off otherwise, I FULLY support flying the American flag, thanks. I just like to live in other countries I guess you could say, but I give much deserved respect to the home country.

Debate is a favorite pass time for me.
Yes you can get power from small packages. I am just ammused by some of the "nawz boyz" out there with their physics-defying claims.
I watch "High Rev Tuners" with my sons. Everytime I hear 700 HP claims I wonder, justifiably so, where are the dyno slips and time slips? It seems that many of these "tuners" not only lack the scientific knowledge to understand F=MA, but also seem to think that putred metalic paint, stickers, and wings, actually do make a car go faster. Show me ONCE a timed run. Everytime I see a strip run on these cars, on that show, these Civics seem slower than the wife's minivan! Where is the beef?

As for the Buick, you are right on! I love sleepers. My SHO, when the Yamahammer is running right, is a sleeper.
I am also willing to put up with the foibles of real muscle cars and at present hold title to a 1964 Dodge Polara 426 Max Wedge. Oil must be changed every 1000 miles (I do it after 200), but I love it!

As for the 2003 SVT Cobra. I have one. It dynoed at 394 HP and 376 lBft right out of the box. With 15% drivetrain loss that's 453 Hp and 430 lBft at the crank. It's winter in NH now, and the mods are going in. The car comes with a forged steel crank and manley h rods now (stock). I got room!

As domestics go: I have driven an SVT Focus -- quick. I have recently driven a Corvette Z06 -- very fast, a Mercury Marauder -- could be much faster, A 2000 BMW M5 -- quick as hell and a new (year?) Acura NSX -- not so quick for the $$$ -- I like a Lotus Elise better (if you can put up with the electrical system!!!).. The Neon you mentioned looks worth a drive. I am watching for the following: 2003 Viper, 2004/5 Mustang GT 350 (5.4 Litre), the Holden-based Pontiac GTO.

I wish GM kept the f-bodys. I liked them all.



Happy New Year.

All excellent cars you mentioned there in your last paragraph. I have beef with the Z06 Vette though. Well, not with the car itself, but the drivers, SOME of them I'll make it clear as. My Civic I auto cross. As you may know thats an automotive sport of vehicle handling, rather than sheer speed and all out power an acceleration. In auto cross, a 150hp Miata can EASILY out perform a Vette of any model. Actually, Miatas are about one of the fastest production cars on many Solo2 SCCA circuits. The past few races I've been to, a lot of guys come out with their Z06's thinking they'll just take the competition away, they couldn't be any more WRONG with an attitude like theirs. Time and time again I'll see these guys drive their cars through the course as if it was some light weight import pocket rocket. Do these guys forget that their car is RWD, and produces enourmous amounts of power in very little time? In a FWD car, you can power out of a curve with little worry of losing control or spinning out. The Vette drivers power out of it with what seems like WOT, and they end up spinning out in to a 180 or even 360 right out OFF of the course in some cases. Not an ideal car suited for slalom type racing. The old style Cameros (mid - late 80's and early 90's versions) make great slalom cars however. They seem to have great handling capabilities and can be built up quite well. But enough on that, just something I wanted to throw out there.

This Dodge you speak of, the Polara, why on earth must the oil be changed only every 1000 miles? Is the motor just that sensative? One of my friend's has a cool ride for ya'. Originally his first car was a '72 Dodge Dart Swinger with the 318ci V8. That was a pretty sweet car, we'd whip around turns in it and powerslide it to no end. When he learned about how to torque brake it, the first time he did it, I swear the entire body raised about 3 inches off the frame before he let off the brake, and it took off in a smokey fury. He throw on some dual Flow Masters onto it for some better exhaling. Later on, he aquired a Chrysler 300E I think it was? Another beginning of 70's era car. I didn't know too much about it. His dream car was a '70 Road Runner with 440 six pack. He's almost achieved that. Right now he owns title to a '70 Plymouth Satellite Sebring. 440 six pack motor in it, huge tank like appearance, but as he says, it's basically a Road Runner with more options and different name plate. It's a sweet car no less. He had the entire exhaust system on it reworked. Mopars by far are one of my fav muscle cars. They have good reputation IMO, and they are the cars most never think of, but should in terms of old muscle.

The 426 max wedge engine was race-prepped from the factory. It has loose-fitting rings and valve seals. HiPo engines of that era drank oil. After hard runs, the oil in the crank case is full of combustion products.

for more info see:

http://www.maxwedge.com/orangemonster.html

tcobra,
they have many "imports" that make easilly 700hp@wheels, supras,skylines,300ztt, 2 name a few n many 4cyld imports make well over 400hp with mods including civics. me personally i don't like all civics for the fact that almost people have them n say that they are fast with there intake n exaust n giv the rest of ur import racers a bad name!
but u do meet some few hondas that will blow peeps away!
in nyc there is this green 96hb civic powered by a b18b engine just using nos n he does low 11s runs n his car is daily driven n reliable,
btw did u ever go street racing? cause they have some fast cars occasionaly, also in nyc they have 2 rx-7 wit 13b's that 2 10s runs wit bout 450+hp @rw n they 2 are also daily driven, also countless other 4g63 powered eclipses doing 11s run daily driven, if u look at this months sport compact car they have a challange fo street cars, in there they have a 9sec daily driven eclipse, as well as supras, turbo integras,wrx, n yea a skyline!
u no a skyline will rape most domestics here,
n a modifyed skyline will kill alot of vipers, z06, n other american cars!
american cars run but u have 2 give respect to the imports 2 because they run as fast or faster then domestics with less cyld's...

What your posing here is highly modified imports v. stock domestics.
As for the Impreza WRX -- I have one -- quick but not cobra quick.

Domestics to look for:
Lingenfelter Corvettes -- WAY FAST
Supercharged Shelby Series 1 -- way fast
Any modded 03 Cobra -- a "cheap" set of blower pullies buys a LOT of power. Add a chip -- WOW
The new Viper has already got AM tuners looking at it -- that's one mean V-10 out of the box -- some mopar boys speculate BIG hp gains with relatively inexpensive AM tuning.
The Saleen S281 is quick
The Steeda Q400 is nasty

The Max Wedge 426 I have been talking about did low 12's out of the box in 1964 -- no hi-rev, hi tech there -- just MoPower.......

In short, domestics start you off at a higher point and get you moving at alarming rates with far less cash invested........

i understand domestics are fast from da factory but..
give da respect 2 da imports dat are also fast from da factory
wat u think bout da skyline, is dat slow 2?
all im trying 2 say is u dont have 2 like imports jus dont hate on all of dem cause there are sum fast 1's out there!
i no u noe dat!

1

I like them all....
What I strive to correct is some of the silly children who, with every uninformed utterance, prove to the world that the either haven't taken or failed freshman physics. As for the Skyline -- how many Japanese-spec versions are here in the USA?
As for really powerful domestics -- we have a bunch of tree-huggin' types round here that tend to pull in the reins....... those "55 Saves" types spoil all the fun -- worst yet was a bunch of "smelly hippi types" protesting at the Boston World of Wheels chanting "No Blood for Oil" --
The big three domestics could, by merit of the technology available to them, build some incredibly fast cars -- some now are giving them really strong underpinnings (like the forged crank and rods in my Cobra) so that uber-modding can be done -- God bless the domestic performance aftermarket.

Remember, Honda Indy engines are 8 cylinder NOT 4!

Sometimes you must demonstrate absurdity by using absurdity.

I'm sure you have plenty of practice.

I have, in my 41 plus years on this planet, seen no evidence that a Honda, or any other foreign offering, is any more reliable or longer lived than any American car I have owned. I once had a Dodge Dart Slant 6 that ran for 22 years and OVER 425,000 miles with simple routine maintenance. At some point the weather and road salt of New England turned it into a pile of orange and brown dust. A '78 Toyota my wife and I owned was so reduced by 1984! (That's 6 SHORT years!)


So you got lucky once... if you look at reliability statistics for the manufacturers as a whole, you'll find that through the 90s most of the Japanese offerings clobbered the comparable US vehicles. To compare two particular vehicles and then extrapolate to the populations as a whole is an exercise in absurdity... but I guess that's your game, isn't it?

Some of the US manufacturers have made great steps towards improving the reliability of their vehicles. This is largely due to the adoptation of Japanese manufacturing concepts. Read up on poke-yoke, kan-ban, and lean thinking. For a simply written text on the last, try "The Hunters and the Hunted: A Non-Linear Solution for Reengineering the Workplace" or "Lean Thinking."

However, some of the (for the lack of kinder words) backwards-baseball-caped IMBECILES I see driving sticker-bedecked, winged, and fart-canned Civics, cause me to take pause and consider just how far beyond the chimpanzee we realy are.

Clearly idiots can be found in any type of car, even the Dodge Dart.

Remember, it is easy to copy and improve. The Japanese have done it with cars and electronics.

You claim to have been involved in the design of several vehicles, so I surmise that perhaps you are somehow involved in vehicle engineering. I challenge you, then, to name a single automotive component that was not a copied or improved version of previous technology. As far as I can tell, the whole of engineering is based on the gradual improvement of existing technology.

Thankfully some of us, Americans, have learned lessons and wised up.

Or, as you seem to prefer to call it, "copied and improved," right? Good thing we red-blooded Americans have this inate ability to learn that's lacking in our yellow adversaries! Oh wait, that's a common trait amongst animals in general, and particularly homo sapiens, isn't it.

I feel bad when young people, filled with propeganda, call their own people, products, and way of life, inferior and cast aside the real achievments of this Nation.

Your bigoted beliefs are as unamerican as communism. This country was founded on capitalism and individualism, both of which dictate that one must evaluate a product based on its merits and price, not on the country of its origin. One of the most important achievements of this nation is the free-market economy that you seem to despise. Shall I choose an inferior, more expensive, product because it was manufactured locally? Not a chance.

Some of these young mush-filled skulls simply parrot opinions that may have carried some truth back in say, 1977, that are just no longer true.

As does yours, apparently.


Now smarten up before a group of Japanese tourists buy Hawaii, raise the Arizona, and turn it into Honda parts. Or do you find the flying of the American Flag offensive?

That's not particularly likely to happen, now is it? Oh wait, absurdity is your thing, I forgot.

Out of curiosity, which of these counts as "buying American?"
* buying a US-branded product, manufactured in the USA from a mixture of local and foreign components, from a company that is largely owned by foreigners (many Chrysler products)
* buying a foreign-branded product manufactured in the USA from 100%local content, from a company that is partially US owned, but mostly owned by foreigners (Toyota Avalon, etc)
* buying a US-branded product manufactured in a foreign country from foriegn components, from a company that is largely US-owned, but is partially owned by foreigners (some Ford products, some GM products)
* buying a US-branded product manufactured in the USA from a mixture of local and foreign components, but built by a foreign company (some GM products)

All automobiles on the road in the USA today are conglomerations of foreign- and domestic- designed components. Final assembly may or may not happen in the US, regardless of what brand you're buying. Tell me again what makes a Ford an American car, because I'm really not sure. As far as I can tell, you just like the sound of the name more than you like "Mazda." A bit too slanty-eyed and yellow for your tastes, eh?

Go wrap yourself in a flag, and maybe people won't recognize you for the shallow bigot that you really are, right? Just make sure that your flag wasn't made in China. Oops.

--------------------------------------

On another subject entirely, if a turbo isn't a substitute for displacement, then why the heck do all modern class-8 trucks use turbocharged engines? Why are nearly all reciprocating-piston engines used for stationary power generation turbocharged? It's because a turbo isn't just a replacement for displacement, it's a far more feasible alternative in many applications.

Originally posted by ivymike1031
Sometimes you must demonstrate absurdity by using absurdity.

I'm sure you have plenty of practice.

I have, in my 41 plus years on this planet, seen no evidence that a Honda, or any other foreign offering, is any more reliable or longer lived than any American car I have owned. I once had a Dodge Dart Slant 6 that ran for 22 years and OVER 425,000 miles with simple routine maintenance. At some point the weather and road salt of New England turned it into a pile of orange and brown dust. A '78 Toyota my wife and I owned was so reduced by 1984! (That's 6 SHORT years!)


So you got lucky once... if you look at reliability statistics for the manufacturers as a whole, you'll find that through the 90s most of the Japanese offerings clobbered the comparable US vehicles. To compare two particular vehicles and then extrapolate to the populations as a whole is an exercise in absurdity... but I guess that's your game, isn't it?
Actually, several times -- most of my American-made cars have seen 200K plus- except the 94 SHO -- YAMAHA ENGINE -- might make 90K

Some of the US manufacturers have made great steps towards improving the reliability of their vehicles. This is largely due to the adoptation of Japanese manufacturing concepts. Read up on poke-yoke, kan-ban, and lean thinking. For a simply written text on the last, try "The Hunters and the Hunted: A Non-Linear Solution for Reengineering the Workplace" or "Lean Thinking."
Actually, an American pioneered these "Japanese" practices (I'll look it up for you). Sadly, at the time American Manufacturers were to complacent to listen.

However, some of the (for the lack of kinder words) backwards-baseball-caped IMBECILES I see driving sticker-bedecked, winged, and fart-canned Civics, cause me to take pause and consider just how far beyond the chimpanzee we realy are.

Clearly idiots can be found in any type of car, even the Dodge Dart.Very true.

Remember, it is easy to copy and improve. The Japanese have done it with cars and electronics.

You claim to have been involved in the design of several vehicles, so I surmise that perhaps you are somehow involved in vehicle engineering. I challenge you, then, to name a single automotive component that was not a copied or improved version of previous technology. Sealed-beam headlights invented USA, Seatbelts invented USA, Fuel Injection invented USA, Hydrolic Brakes invented USA -- shall I go on? As far as I can tell, the whole of engineering is based on the gradual improvement of existing technology.Oh? Audion tube invented by USA. Transistor invented USA. Cathode Ray Tube invented by USA. TV invented by USA. VCR invented by USA. Telephones and all Telecom invented by USA. The modern computer invented by USA. IC invented by USA. Automobile -- difficult to say, lots of simultaneous work BUT NOT BY THE JAPANESE.

Thankfully some of us, Americans, have learned lessons and wised up.

Or, as you seem to prefer to call it, "copied and improved," right? Good thing we red-blooded Americans have this inate ability to learn that's lacking in our yellow adversaries! It's called freedom. Oh wait, that's a common trait amongst animals in general, and particularly homo sapiens, isn't it.So I see you're a PETA type eh?
They sure know how to pull off a successful sneak attack!

I feel bad when young people, filled with propeganda, call their own people, products, and way of life, inferior and cast aside the real achievments of this Nation.

Your bigoted beliefs are as unamerican as communism. This country was founded on capitalism and individualism, both of which dictate that one must evaluate a product based on its merits and price, not on the country of its origin. One of the most important achievements of this nation is the free-market economy that you seem to despise. Shall I choose an inferior, more expensive, product because it was manufactured locally? Not a chance. Country of origin is immaterial, frankly. If something is better, it's better. No one has proven it to me. And as the transmission in our Impreza WRX (2002) failed at 12K miles, I have to wonder. Shall I scan the repair sheet for you? Sir, I am not bigoted. As for the Japanese, I admire them as true capitalists. But think. The catylist of their success may be rooted more in Americans lack of self worth than in any earth-shattering super human work ethic. Check out the suicide rate of young Japanese during the 80s and 90s. As for less expensive foreign products, you mean like shoes made by enslaved children, or inexpensive Japanese-made televisions made so through the practice of price gouging on their domestic market? Hmmm?

Some of these young mush-filled skulls simply parrot opinions that may have carried some truth back in say, 1977, that are just no longer true.

As does yours, apparently. And what, exactly, am I parroting? Please explain.


Now smarten up before a group of Japanese tourists buy Hawaii, raise the Arizona, and turn it into Honda parts. Or do you find the flying of the American Flag offensive?

That's not particularly likely to happen, now is it? Oh wait, absurdity is your thing, I forgot. Actually, follow the real estate market in Hawaii --

Out of curiosity, which of these counts as "buying American?"
* buying a US-branded product, manufactured in the USA from a mixture of local and foreign components, from a company that is largely owned by foreigners (many Chrysler products)
* buying a foreign-branded product manufactured in the USA from 100%local content, from a company that is partially US owned, but mostly owned by foreigners (Toyota Avalon, etc)
* buying a US-branded product manufactured in a foreign country from foriegn components, from a company that is largely US-owned, but is partially owned by foreigners (some Ford products, some GM products)
* buying a US-branded product manufactured in the USA from a mixture of local and foreign components, but built by a foreign company (some GM products)So, are you for or against NAFTA? What matters is where the money ends up. As you espouse capitolism i am sure that you understand that it IS all about the money.

All automobiles on the road in the USA today are conglomerations of foreign- and domestic- designed components. Final assembly may or may not happen in the US, regardless of what brand you're buying. Tell me again what makes a Ford an American car, because I'm really not sure. As far as I can tell, you just like the sound of the name more than you like "Mazda." A bit too slanty-eyed and yellow for your tastes, eh?Not at all. We race a Lotary 7 -- based on a 95 RX7 -- the statement of historical fact does NOT make one a bigot. Your argument is specious. This row started with the fact that the average Civic needs a rocket assist to be fast. That is still true.

Go wrap yourself in a flag, and maybe people won't recognize you for the shallow bigot that you really are, right? Just make sure that your flag wasn't made in China. Oops. You should unwrap youself from the shroud of ignorant accusal. As a matter of fact the two flags I own where probably made over seas. As for China - read "Lessons" by An Wang - see what the Japanese did to his family. An Wang was a friend of mine -- a GREAT AMERICAN and proud of it.

--------------------------------------

On another subject entirely, if a turbo isn't a substitute for displacement, then why the heck do all modern class-8 trucks use turbocharged engines? Why are nearly all reciprocating-piston engines used for stationary power generation turbocharged? It's because a turbo isn't just a replacement for displacement, it's a far more feasible alternative in many applications. A turbo is an augmentation not a substitute. Study my friend, study.

Actually, several times -- most of my American-made cars have seen 200K plus- except the 94 SHO -- YAMAHA ENGINE -- might make 90K

When you get to a few hundred thousand times, compile your data and dispute the evidence compiled by countless surveys. I'll be happy to listen then. The simple fact is that when you work at an OEM (have you done that?), there are always companies out there who "set the bar" (in recent history, the Japanese) and those who try to catch up (the rest).


Actually, an American pioneered these "Japanese" practices (I'll look it up for you). Sadly, at the time American Manufacturers were to complacent to listen.

You're thinking of Deming, and some of the Japanese principles have a great deal in common with Deming's. Some of them are almost entirely Japanese in origin.
http://www.dharma-haven.org/five-havens/deming.htm
http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-newsletter.pl?LEAN&20021209&1&;


Sealed-beam headlights invented USA

An adaptation of the non-sealed headlight, which was an improvement over the gas lamp, which replaced candles...


Seatbelts invented USA

Sweden, if memory serves. Relies on existing textile technology, closely resembles harnesses used on motive creatures for eons.


Fuel Injection invented USA

Another fuel delivery method. (Arguably) an improvement over carburetion. Relies on countless manufacturing processes & subcomponents, which existed previously.


Hydrolic Brakes invented USA

That's hydraulic, and they're an improvement over other varieties of brakes, which existed previously. Hydraulics were pioneered long before the USA existed (Newton and others).

(me previously): As far as I can tell, the whole of engineering is based on the gradual improvement of existing technology.

Oh? Audion tube invented by USA.
Transistor invented USA. Cathode Ray Tube invented by USA. TV invented by USA. VCR invented by USA. Telephones and all Telecom invented by USA. The modern computer invented by USA. IC invented by USA. Automobile -- difficult to say, lots of simultaneous work BUT NOT BY THE JAPANESE.

You just don't get it, do you? None of the inventions that you mention came from nothing. They all built on the previous work of other scientists and engineers. What's a transistor without semiconductor research? Without wires? Without electricity and magnetism? A television is a glorified radio, which is alternative to a telegraph, which replaces paper messages, which can be traced back to scrawlings on cave walls. Could you make a piston without metallurgy? Could you make a car without ever having had a wagon? A wheel? Engineering is an incremental process. Franklin would have had trouble experimenting with electricity if nobody had learned to make wires.


It's called freedom.

Are the Japanese not free? The Germans? The Swedes?


So I see you're a PETA type eh?

Yes, I'm a member of "people eating tasty animals."


Country of origin is immaterial, frankly. If something is better, it's better.

Huh? I thought you said earlier that you're tired of people calling American products inferior? If you admit that country of origin is not an important factor, then why do you refuse to acknowledge that American products can be inferior to foreign competitors?


No one has proven it to me.

You should be trying to find these things out for yourself, rather than waiting for someone to disprove your prejudices.


you mean like shoes made by enslaved children

Some of those are American products... and the "enslaved" children are, in many cases, (again arguably) better off than they were before they were "enslaved" by the "evil" capitalists.


And what, exactly, am I parroting? Please explain.

Awk! Buy American! Awk! Love it or leave it! Awk! The Japs are trying to take over! Awk! Awk! Riceboy! Awk!


the statement of historical fact does NOT make one a bigot

I missed it... when were you talking facts?


A turbo is an augmentation not a substitute. Study my friend, study.

Let me slow this one down for you, since you don't seem to get it: The statement "there is no replacement for displacement... not even a turbo" suggests that rather than turbocharging an engine, one should use an engine with greater displacement. Increasing displacement is not a feasible option in many applications. In those applications, a turbo is not just a replacement for displacement, it's a far more practical alternative. Yes, the turbo augments the displacement. The displacement is augmented by a turbo in place of... more displacement! Thus the turbo is a substitute for... displacement! Get it?

Originally posted by ivymike1031
[b]
Let me slow this one down for you, since you don't seem to get it: The statement "there is no replacement for displacement... not even a turbo" suggests that rather than turbocharging an engine, one should use an engine with greater displacement. Increasing displacement is not a feasible option in many applications. In those applications, a turbo is not just a replacement for displacement, it's a far more practical alternative. Yes, the turbo augments the displacement. The displacement is augmented by a turbo in place of... more displacement! Thus the turbo is a substitute for... displacement! Get it?

That's from my quote...But not, it isn't a replacement. It's an augmentation, like cobra said. Let's keep things in terms of power in vehicles since this is an automotive forum. What that phrase means is that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY POSSIBLE to make up the difference in power caused by the variation of displacement in two engines. Exanple...You have a 5.7L engine making 305hp and a 1.8L engine making 170hp. You throw a turbocharger onto the 1.8l and turn the boost up to achieve 400hp. Now that's an EXCELLENT hp rating, but wait, let's add a turbocharger to the 5.7l and see what happens. His horsepower instantly jumps to 600, or however much, the actual numbers are irrelevant. What IS relevant is the fact that despite being able to make over 200 additional horses, the larger engine is still able to overpower the smaller engine because of it's larger size. This fact isn't really disputable. BUT you are 100% correct in saying that more displacement is always better. There are many many many cases when a turbocharger on a smaller engine is a more feasible option, than a huge displacement engine.

Originally posted by Self

BUT you are 100% correct in saying that more displacement is always better.

you meant "isn't," right?

Originally posted by ivymike1031


you meant "isn't," right?

Oh yes, that's exactly what I meant:)

"You are 100% correct in saying that more displacement IS NOT always better."

Thanks for catching that for me, considering it changed the entire direction of my post:D

Originally posted by Self

That's from my quote...But not, it isn't a replacement. It's an augmentation, like cobra said. Let's keep things in terms of power in vehicles since this is an automotive forum. What that phrase means is that there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY POSSIBLE to make up the difference in power caused by the variation of displacement in two engines. Exanple...You have a 5.7L engine making 305hp and a 1.8L engine making 170hp. You throw a turbocharger onto the 1.8l and turn the boost up to achieve 400hp. Now that's an EXCELLENT hp rating, but wait, let's add a turbocharger to the 5.7l and see what happens. His horsepower instantly jumps to 600, or however much, the actual numbers are irrelevant. What IS relevant is the fact that despite being able to make over 200 additional horses, the larger engine is still able to overpower the smaller engine because of it's larger size. This fact isn't really disputable.

If you're only trying to say that for a given BMEP and operating speed, a larger displacement engine will produce more power, then all I can say is "duh." That's not a very interesting point to make. If you have a desired power output, then you have to balance BMEP, displacement, and operating speed, based on the requirements of the particular application. Increasing BMEP increases power just as effectively as increasing displacement.

I gather that you're a fan of "large" displacement, naturally aspirated engines, and generally prefer them over smaller turbocharged engines of the same output. Let me pose a design problem, and see if you still feel the same way. Let's say that you absolutely must have at least 600 horsepower to the flywheel, or your engine will not be acceptable to your customer. You also want to make the engine as light and as small as possible, because this is a vehicle and therefore packaging and weight are both very important. Your desired rated operating speed is 1800rpm. You can make the engine naturally aspirated, and if you're clever with your cam design, you can probably get about 14 bar BMEP out of it. To get your desired horsepower, you would need to have a displacement of 21.3L. If you go with a turbocharged design, not only can you dramatically improve the driveability (by controlling boost, and thus torque rise), but you can also (fairly easily) achieve a BMEP of 21 bar, giving a required displacement of only 14.2L. The package volume of the engine is substantially smaller, the weight is much less, and as a bonus, the turbocharged engine is significantly more efficient than the naturally aspirated version.

The example above, of course, refers to a medium speed, light-to-medium duty diesel engine. Gasoline engines are a bit different because they're knock limited, but you didn't specify that you wanted to talk gasoline only.

It seems to me, that if I were asked to generalize, I would have to say that increasing BMEP, if it can be done in a cost-effective manner, is usually a better way to increase power output than increasing the displacement. (gas or diesel) IE, if you want to have a high-output version of a car, you're probably better off to make it with a high-perf cam and/or boosted intake, than to increase the displacement of the engine. Then again, I hate to generalize, because there are always enough exceptions to keep everyone screaming.

(note that I changed the first paragraph of the above post a few seconds after I initially posted it)

Originally posted by ivymike1031


If you're only trying to say that for a given BMEP and operating speed, a larger displacement engine will produce more power, then all I can say is "duh." That's not a very interesting point to make. If you have a desired power output, then you have to balance BMEP, displacement, and operating speed, based on the requirements of the particular application. Increasing BMEP increases power just as effectively as increasing displacement.

I gather that you're a fan of "large" displacement, naturally aspirated engines, and generally prefer them over smaller turbocharged engines of the same output. Let me pose a design problem, and see if you still feel the same way. Let's say that you absolutely must have at least 600 horsepower to the flywheel, or your engine will not be acceptable to your customer. You also want to make the engine as light and as small as possible, because this is a vehicle and therefore packaging and weight are both very important. Your desired rated operating speed is 1800rpm. You can make the engine naturally aspirated, and if you're clever with your cam design, you can probably get about 14 bar BMEP out of it. To get your desired horsepower, you would need to have a displacement of 21.3L. If you go with a turbocharged design, not only can you dramatically improve the driveability (by controlling boost, and thus torque rise), but you can also (fairly easily) achieve a BMEP of 21 bar, giving a required displacement of only 14.2L. The package volume of the engine is substantially smaller, the weight is much less, and as a bonus, the turbocharged engine is significantly more efficient than the naturally aspirated version.

The example above, of course, refers to a medium speed, light-to-medium duty diesel engine. Gasoline engines are a bit different because they're knock limited, but you didn't specify that you wanted to talk gasoline only.

It seems to me, that if I were asked to generalize, I would have to say that increasing BMEP, if it can be done in a cost-effective manner, is usually a better way to increase power output than increasing the displacement. (gas or diesel) IE, if you want to have a high-output version of a car, you're probably better off to make it with a high-perf cam and/or boosted intake, than to increase the displacement of the engine. Then again, I hate to generalize, because there are always enough exceptions to keep everyone screaming.

Nooo, I'm a fan of large displacement FORCED INDUCTION vehicles, like this turbo 3rd gen http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/guidonews.htm or even better yet, this twin turbo z28 http://www.turbocharged.net/
I like BIG POWER. BIG BIG BIG POWER. If the quad turbo Camaro producing nearly 5000hp that popular hot rodding chronicled earlier this year was available in a kit, I'd buy it:D :D Whatever it takes to get the BIG BIG BIG power, I'm for. And what could be better than the growl of a V8 engine mixed with the sound of a TT setup?

Well, I guess I am too tired to reply fully. Thanks for reminding me of Demings.

I am off for my "chemo" now. You see, I am a bit of a pioneer. We are working to cure and reverse the effects of Multiple Sclerosis. I, myself, am fighting to stay out of a wheel chair. If my responses seem a bit irritated, I apologize. If you are so inclined, http://www.bostoncure.com is looking for volunteers.

This is an interesting conversation. Perhaps, when I am well again, we could continue this over a beer -- though I am a scotch and cigar type myself.

BTW, Lee Deforest thought he invented the "audion" or triode. He didn't understand how it worked. Armstrong, the "Father of FM" derived the equations. Regarding the transistor, there is a bunch of old folks at AT&T that would strongly refute your assertion; as with the Integrated Circuit and the folks at Fairchild.

Peace

One more thought, the nurse beckons....

I never said American Products couldn't be inferior to foriegn ones... you may have inferred this... Sir, I drove an 81 Oldsmobile! I lived under that hood during each hour that I wasn't sleeping or working!
I also drove a '89 Lotus Elise (a electrical fire on wheels) and the '81 Olds was more reliable.

Peace, again.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, OMG i cant believe i took the time to read most of that....i am so much dumber now for having wasted my time here... Now im not flaming on anyone, but last time i checked this was a honda/acura board. Not a domestic host board, if he wants to brag about his domestics let him go to another board. ive seen the honda's go forever on NO oil , and new hondas die on the spot with no oil... ive seen the same for domestics too..... So whats the deal with my car is better than yours childish shit.....jesus christ grow up and be adults....


gunnmen01

Originally posted by TcobrA
Debate is a favorite pass time for me.
Yes you can get power from small packages. I am just ammused by some of the "nawz boyz" out there with their physics-defying claims.
I watch "High Rev Tuners" with my sons. Everytime I hear 700 HP claims I wonder, justifiably so, where are the dyno slips and time slips? It seems that many of these "tuners" not only lack the scientific knowledge to understand F=MA, but also seem to think that putred metalic paint, stickers, and wings, actually do make a car go faster. Show me ONCE a timed run. Everytime I see a strip run on these cars, on that show, these Civics seem slower than the wife's minivan! Where is the beef?

As for the Buick, you are right on! I love sleepers. My SHO, when the Yamahammer is running right, is a sleeper.
I am also willing to put up with the foibles of real muscle cars and at present hold title to a 1964 Dodge Polara 426 Max Wedge. Oil must be changed every 1000 miles (I do it after 200), but I love it!

As for the 2003 SVT Cobra. I have one. It dynoed at 394 HP and 376 lBft right out of the box. With 15% drivetrain loss that's 453 Hp and 430 lBft at the crank. It's winter in NH now, and the mods are going in. The car comes with a forged steel crank and manley h rods now (stock). I got room!

As domestics go: I have driven an SVT Focus -- quick. I have recently driven a Corvette Z06 -- very fast, a Mercury Marauder -- could be much faster, A 2000 BMW M5 -- quick as hell and a new (year?) Acura NSX -- not so quick for the $$$ -- I like a Lotus Elise better (if you can put up with the electrical system!!!).. The Neon you mentioned looks worth a drive. I am watching for the following: 2003 Viper, 2004/5 Mustang GT 350 (5.4 Litre), the Holden-based Pontiac GTO.

I wish GM kept the f-bodys. I liked them all.



Happy New Year.

I love V8's but I drive a Honda Civic and it is not riced out like the pic that you showed. But you know what I really don't give a shit what you like. You talked about people wearing their hat's backwards like a chimp but at least they are not holding a cain like your old happy ass. If you don't respect Honda then don't bring your crusty ass in here old man. Keep your trailer trash out of here.

My brother is a big foreign car enthusiast but gave up on Hondas when that wonderful timing belt broke on his CRX just 20K miles after the requisite 60K replacement, while he was rushing to surgery (he is surgeon). He now drives Audis and BMWs exclusively.

Man, we all have different experiences with cars - I had 1(one) domestic car in my life - an 88 Chrysler (that's Dodge!) LeBaron after putting well over $7000-8000 into maintenance, engine/tranny rebuild, timing belt and everything else and getting about 10,000 -15,000 miles of use out of it(and that's just a guess because of course the odometer broke). I (my parents) decided to help me get another car.. a 93 Honda Civic.

I bought that car with 48,000 miles on it. I put 50,000 miles of racing from 0 to 7000 rpm on that car every single day for a year and a half. The only ONLY thing I needed to fix - were brake pads and a clutch because it was my first manual car and I power/quickshifted on every shift. I regretfully sold the car for a family car 00 Civic.

Anyway, long story longer - my wife drives a 91 civic with 175000 miles on it. ALL STOP AND GO, 4-5 mile distance driving - basically beat the sh*T out of it. the timing belt just went out. AFTER 175000 miles of ass beating - plus. I changed the oil in that thing once a year... at one stretch it went 25,000 with out an oil change. It leaks NO OIL and runs like i first bought it. I am not exaggerating ONE BIT!

Hondas are the sh*t! I will NEVER be convinced otherwise.

Originally posted by TcobrA

OOOOOOO-RAHHHH!


Please don't tell me you are a Marine.

tell him kris. you know that Honda's are the only reliable cars out there. we've both had to do major sh*t to our G20's in the short time we've known each other. and i'm so slacker ass my g20's still broke down.

can I get an AMEN!:devil:

(this is a preemptive flip off because I know you're going to say some sh*t) :flipa: LOL:D

I wouldn't say that Honda is the only reliable manufacture out there, that would be ignorant. Trust me, everybody makes shitty cars.

Originally posted by ivymike1031
Sometimes you must demonstrate absurdity by using absurdity.

I'm sure you have plenty of practice.

I have, in my 41 plus years on this planet, seen no evidence that a Honda, or any other foreign offering, is any more reliable or longer lived than any American car I have owned. I once had a Dodge Dart Slant 6 that ran for 22 years and OVER 425,000 miles with simple routine maintenance. At some point the weather and road salt of New England turned it into a pile of orange and brown dust. A '78 Toyota my wife and I owned was so reduced by 1984! (That's 6 SHORT years!)


So you got lucky once... if you look at reliability statistics for the manufacturers as a whole, you'll find that through the 90s most of the Japanese offerings clobbered the comparable US vehicles. To compare two particular vehicles and then extrapolate to the populations as a whole is an exercise in absurdity... but I guess that's your game, isn't it?

Some of the US manufacturers have made great steps towards improving the reliability of their vehicles. This is largely due to the adoptation of Japanese manufacturing concepts. Read up on poke-yoke, kan-ban, and lean thinking. For a simply written text on the last, try "The Hunters and the Hunted: A Non-Linear Solution for Reengineering the Workplace" or "Lean Thinking."

However, some of the (for the lack of kinder words) backwards-baseball-caped IMBECILES I see driving sticker-bedecked, winged, and fart-canned Civics, cause me to take pause and consider just how far beyond the chimpanzee we realy are.

Clearly idiots can be found in any type of car, even the Dodge Dart.

Remember, it is easy to copy and improve. The Japanese have done it with cars and electronics.

You claim to have been involved in the design of several vehicles, so I surmise that perhaps you are somehow involved in vehicle engineering. I challenge you, then, to name a single automotive component that was not a copied or improved version of previous technology. As far as I can tell, the whole of engineering is based on the gradual improvement of existing technology.

Thankfully some of us, Americans, have learned lessons and wised up.

Or, as you seem to prefer to call it, "copied and improved," right? Good thing we red-blooded Americans have this inate ability to learn that's lacking in our yellow adversaries! Oh wait, that's a common trait amongst animals in general, and particularly homo sapiens, isn't it.

I feel bad when young people, filled with propeganda, call their own people, products, and way of life, inferior and cast aside the real achievments of this Nation.

Your bigoted beliefs are as unamerican as communism. This country was founded on capitalism and individualism, both of which dictate that one must evaluate a product based on its merits and price, not on the country of its origin. One of the most important achievements of this nation is the free-market economy that you seem to despise. Shall I choose an inferior, more expensive, product because it was manufactured locally? Not a chance.

Some of these young mush-filled skulls simply parrot opinions that may have carried some truth back in say, 1977, that are just no longer true.

As does yours, apparently.


Now smarten up before a group of Japanese tourists buy Hawaii, raise the Arizona, and turn it into Honda parts. Or do you find the flying of the American Flag offensive?

That's not particularly likely to happen, now is it? Oh wait, absurdity is your thing, I forgot.

Out of curiosity, which of these counts as "buying American?"
* buying a US-branded product, manufactured in the USA from a mixture of local and foreign components, from a company that is largely owned by foreigners (many Chrysler products)
* buying a foreign-branded product manufactured in the USA from 100%local content, from a company that is partially US owned, but mostly owned by foreigners (Toyota Avalon, etc)
* buying a US-branded product manufactured in a foreign country from foriegn components, from a company that is largely US-owned, but is partially owned by foreigners (some Ford products, some GM products)
* buying a US-branded product manufactured in the USA from a mixture of local and foreign components, but built by a foreign company (some GM products)

All automobiles on the road in the USA today are conglomerations of foreign- and domestic- designed components. Final assembly may or may not happen in the US, regardless of what brand you're buying. Tell me again what makes a Ford an American car, because I'm really not sure. As far as I can tell, you just like the sound of the name more than you like "Mazda." A bit too slanty-eyed and yellow for your tastes, eh?

Go wrap yourself in a flag, and maybe people won't recognize you for the shallow bigot that you really are, right? Just make sure that your flag wasn't made in China. Oops.

--------------------------------------

On another subject entirely, if a turbo isn't a substitute for displacement, then why the heck do all modern class-8 trucks use turbocharged engines? Why are nearly all reciprocating-piston engines used for stationary power generation turbocharged? It's because a turbo isn't just a replacement for displacement, it's a far more feasible alternative in many applications.
*applauds ivymike's post* That pretty much sums it up.
:)

Originally posted by hybridsol

*applauds ivymike's post* That pretty much sums it up.
:)

BANDWAGONER!!!:finger: :finger:

hahah, just kiddin' man:D

I've owned a Mustang, classic Datsun 280Z, Ford pickup, Toyota pickup, and now I own a Mazda Protege5 (slow) and a turbocharged Honda Civic. I must say that my joy of making a completely stock, small displacement motor do what it does with $3k of bolt-ons is just fun. I think the passion behind it for me is making the most out of a little. Yeah, it has a power adder, but a lot of domestic V8 owners run the bottle, too. I'm not flaming anyone, but I've got timeslips to back mine up. I love to run the track (sometimes the street!) and see what happens. It's all in good fun. But, to those ricers out there:

GET REAL MO-FO! If you know your car isn't fast, don't even try to race anyone. That extra 200lbs you added on with fiberglass and the monster wing just made your car slower than when it rolled out stock. People like that make all imports enthusiasts look bad.....

To everyone else, can't we just get a long?!?!?!?!

Oh, my Honda gets better gas mileage than my Stang ever did!!
92 5.0 LX, BBK exhaust, Corbra upper, BBK springs, upper and lower rear-control arms, Pro 5.0 shifter, King Cobra clutch, and fat-ass Yoko's. I do miss the torque though.....

I PERSONALLY LIKE MY HONDA B/C OF THE GAS MILAGE.....HOW MANY AMERICAN CARS (BESIDES THE CAVALIER WHICH WE OWN)( CAN GET 35 MPG....ANOTHER REASON I LIKE MY HONDA IS B/C ITS A 4 CYLINDER.....PEOPLE CLAIM ALL THIS POWER WITH THEIR V6 AND V8 BUT LOOK AT THIS 4 CYLINDER HONDA MAKING 400+ HP....THAT PROBABLY WAS A JOKE 20 YEARS AGO...BUT WHEN YOU COMPARE THAT TO THE 800HP V8...YOUR ACTUALLY COMING OUT EVEN.. AND ABOUT THE WHOLE RICER THING..I THINK ITS GETTING OVERLY USED. IT SHOULD BE SEPARATED LIKE WE SEPARATE MODIFIED FROM STOCK. LET THOSE "RICERS" HAVE FUN WITH THEIR THING B/C I'M SURE A FEW OF YOU STARTED OUT LIKE THAT BUT WAS TOLD ABOUT YOUR SINFUL WAS AND CAME AROUND. I PERSONALLY NEVER HAD AN URGE TO DECORATE MY CAR WITH NOS, NITTO, OR ANY OTHER KIND OF HONDA STICKER...AND ABOUT STREET RACING...MY CIVIC IS STOCK 70 HP AND I LIKE STREET RACING B/C ITS FUN AND WHO SAYS THAT YOUR CAR HAS TO BE FAST IN ORDER TO RACE?? MY CAR IS FAR FROM IT AND I DO IT JUST FOR THE FUN OF IT.....BUT THAT'S JUST ME...

AND TcobrA I THINK IS COOL BUT IS PROBABLY FROM DETROIT OR FROM THE SOUTH WITH ALL HIS PRO AMERICAN TALKING....I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH BUYING AMERICAN B/C WE OWN A CAVALIER AND JUST BROUGHT A DURANGO, BUT I KNOW QUALITY WHEN I SEE IT AND I PRESONALLY WOULD RATHER BUY FROM OVER SEAS...EXCEPT MY CLOTHES AND GROCERY :D .....BUT THAT'S JUST ME...

CAPS LOCK OWNS US ALL!!!!:finger: :finger:
PLEASE take that off next time, lolol.

V8 engines aren't supposed to get good gas mileage. No one ever claimed they did.

Originally posted by Self
CAPS LOCK OWNS US ALL!!!!:finger: :finger:
PLEASE take that off next time, lolol.

V8 engines aren't supposed to get good gas mileage. No one ever claimed they did.

of course they don't......no one claimed they did...i don't think :confused:

Originally posted by BLU CIVIC


of course they don't......no one claimed they did...i don't think :confused:

Guy above your last post, sleepercivic. Said my civic gets better gas mileage than my stang ever did! Big surprise, honda's are supposed to get good gas mileage and mustangs aren't.

here we go again.......it seems every forum has the IGNORANT UGLY @$$ 50 YEAR OLD FAT F--K`ED V8 USIN PREMIUM GAS ABUSIN 2 TONED PINTOED, HAIRY BACKED FOR DEALERSHIP COCK SUCKIN BITCH!! DISSIN ON IMPORTS! who the fu-k do you think you are....put 50 grand in each of our pockets and i will show you who the hell will last long run faster smell better look cleaner and ride smoother!!! this is my first post and i see that this thread is all about the rice?? any jap motor is better side by side size to size next to a ford or chevy motor put a 2.0l jap motor next to a 2.0 ford motor......who`s faster? who will last longer? H-O-N-D-A its sad when i see a brand new taurus for 18k and in 2 years they go for 3k!!! ITS ABOUT THE QUALITY!!! god you american ``muscle'' car fans are full of your old ``when i was young'' drinkin day storys.......AND THERE GETTING OLD YOU FLAMING LITTLE OLD FAGGETS!! :newbie:

JFC, you really brought this one back from the dead.....http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/screwy.gif

I understand that you wanted to express your opinon but by doing this you have brung the post back from the dead and now the flame war will probably resume and increase the amount of wasted bandwith. Please if a post is old and dead then please leave it there. Anyway welcome to AF.

here we go again.......it seems every forum has the IGNORANT UGLY @$$ 50 YEAR OLD FAT F--K`ED V8 USIN PREMIUM GAS ABUSIN 2 TONED PINTOED, HAIRY BACKED FOR DEALERSHIP COCK SUCKIN BITCH!! DISSIN ON IMPORTS! who the fu-k do you think you are....put 50 grand in each of our pockets and i will show you who the hell will last long run faster smell better look cleaner and ride smoother!!! this is my first post and i see that this thread is all about the rice?? any jap motor is better side by side size to size next to a ford or chevy motor put a 2.0l jap motor next to a 2.0 ford motor......who`s faster? who will last longer? H-O-N-D-A its sad when i see a brand new taurus for 18k and in 2 years they go for 3k!!! ITS ABOUT THE QUALITY!!! god you american ``muscle'' car fans are full of your old ``when i was young'' drinkin day storys.......AND THERE GETTING OLD YOU FLAMING LITTLE OLD FAGGETS!! :newbie:

Nice! Are YOU the METCO Gorilla? Did your mommie push too hard while birthing you anmd did the nurse wrap the turd in a blankie instead of the baby? When you get out of SPED give me a call. Jesus you're an idiot. And, um, stay out of your mom's panty draw, she doesn't like it.

oh god he's back. Can some mod put an end to this madness? :banghead:

Ibl Sir Demios Tune Him Up A Bit!

Still amazing how people still don't understand that different people like different things for different reasons. I think there is an argument like this every week of so- getting kind of old IMO. Gotta give it to Tcobra though for at least meeting (or trying to meet) the arguments half way- at least the good ones- a little different than all the other import bashing posts I read. I own a civic... plan on fixing it up- the right way. Also like domestics- I just like cars damn-it.
.....and just as a side note I have never seen the word "ricer" so used and misused. Some<=READ: many=> people deserve it... but man can some one make up a different word cuz this one is getting played out. :2cents: :biggrin:

Hey, he attacked me........ I may be old as his dad but hell... if he were my kid he'd be wearing an imprint of my size 11s on his A$$. Now, I'm off to change my Depends and to guzzle some Geritol, after I put my choppers in the glass.......... :grinno:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~boomer78/US_VS_THEM.jpg

enjoy kids

Still amazing how people still don't understand that different people like different things for different reasons. I think there is an argument like this every week of so- getting kind of old IMO. Gotta give it to Tcobra though for at least meeting (or trying to meet) the arguments half way- at least the good ones- a little different than all the other import bashing posts I read. I own a civic... plan on fixing it up- the right way. Also like domestics- I just like cars damn-it.
.....and just as a side note I have never seen the word "ricer" so used and misused. Some<=READ: many=> people deserve it... but man can some one make up a different word cuz this one is getting played out. :2cents: :biggrin:

What do you plan to do to the Civic? Several years ago (now) my brother and I did some work on a CRX. The car was quick when we finished but I always cringed when he got on it, half expecting the engine to explode through the fire wall. He sold that car when he finished med school and got himself a real car. No, not a domestic. He got an M3 (this was back in '93). He's had several Ms since. But he's never beaten my modded domestics. In some cases, even in the "twisties". He's my "little" brother and I know I am a better driver. Oh well. This past summer he looked at cars and was torn between a Cobra, a Viper, and a Z06 Corvette. He bought the Z06. He's planning to have it tuned this winter (Linkenfelter, I think). I'd better get that Kenny Bell for my Terminator! Sheit!

As far as my civic goes i will probably swap in a gsr engine and go w/ a turbo. Before I do this though I will work on the suspension on that B@#*h cuz stock its not the greatest. Just have a nice little project car u know. I like imports, obviously, but a civic would not have been my first choice- probably an integra. I only got it because my P.O.S. 87 integra was more trouble than it was worth and I NEEDED a better car as quick as possible and got a good deal on the civic. They are a dime a dozen though but hopefully since I will be fixing it up the right way- or the expensive way sometimes they are one in the same- it will set me apart a little little bit. But yeah if I could afford a M3 or M5 I would of course have that hands down although I like mercedes better. "Linkenfelter" what the hell is this. I'm not familar w/ this.

-See not all domestic vs. import arguments have to end in blood-shed and tears- :icon16:

As far as my civic goes i will probably swap in a gsr engine and go w/ a turbo. Before I do this though I will work on the suspension on that B@#*h cuz stock its not the greatest. Just have a nice little project car u know. I like imports, obviously, but a civic would not have been my first choice- probably an integra. I only got it because my P.O.S. 87 integra was more trouble than it was worth and I NEEDED a better car as quick as possible and got a good deal on the civic. They are a dime a dozen though but hopefully since I will be fixing it up the right way- or the expensive way sometimes they are one in the same- it will set me apart a little little bit. But yeah if I could afford a M3 or M5 I would of course have that hands down although I like mercedes better. "Linkenfelter" what the hell is this. I'm not familar w/ this.

-See not all domestic vs. import arguments have to end in blood-shed and tears- :icon16:
Lingenfelter puts twinn turbos on Corvettes :evillol: He has a 427 twinn turbo vette that is a 9 sec car :iceslolan He is da man!!!!!!

DAAAMMMNNN!!! That sounds pretty good. :iceslolan Thanks for the info.

Yea and the best thing about that car is it looks like a normal C5 corvette. Man talk about a sleeper :icesangel