95 3.8 Spewing coolant

95 3.8 spewing coolant( out ad fast as it goes in) in the right(passenger side) around the water pump can it be anything other than the head gasket??....

the engine is strong other than the abs and the occasional cel light ( shudders) the " old horse is strong"

any diagrams of that area would be appreciated

There has been a thread about something similar, and it was the timing chain gasket around a water pump passage but a 3.4 though:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=695986
The 3.8 does not have a history of blown head gaskets.....so I'd be tempted to downplay this option.
I'll go for some graphics and come back

Thanks LMP.... I got a mirror and poked around the area of the leak... found a hose connected to what looks like a nut? around a broken plastic fitting which appears to go directly into the engine block.... i caant see how it's attached or how i would make the connections... i'll search the forum but if you have info I'd appreciate that... this has to be easier than a gasket fix... right????

NOt sure this can help...not very conspicuous.
www.avigex.ca/xport/heaterhoses1.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/heaterhoses2.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/hosescoolant.jpg
parts 161-162 could match your description
www.avigex.ca/xport/enginetop.jpg
www.avigex.ca/xport/enginetop2.jpg

thanks LMP It is the fitting from the coolant bypass to the intake manifold. Got the part from autosourse for $10( dealer wanted 40) the interesting part will be getting the rest of it out of the manifold .. I walked into a shop as a mechanic was telling a customer about the same broken fitting.. ( on an oldsmobile... goo figure) Is there a tool to remove the broken bit or should i just pay for the labour???

HOw did it break? Corrosion? Is it this part: http://www.avigex.ca/xport/bypass.jpg
Can you take a photo of the part and of engine to show access..this might help others in the future, since you proved it is not an isolated case. Is it screwed in ?I'll take a look at mine..(hangared for winter)..
The way I imagine at this time, comparing to kind of similar situatinos, I use a saw blade to cut inside lengthwise , up and down or 2 cuts side by side, until barely touching the threads then use the cut to force one side in and this loosens the thread and it can be unscrewed...but this is just as it seems without actually seeing it ...and the kind of access available......keep us updated

yeah thats the part ... apparently its fairly common ... i showed the broken bit to 3 techs and they recorgnized it right away... I'm guessing the plastic gets brittle over time due to hear,,, there was a little leakage previously i attributed to the rad.. I read another post where this was the culprit... the alternator has to be removed to get at it.... it's costing an hour labour I'll go that route... i have no taps if i screw up the threads... I'll take pice of the part and location

OK..plastic then...and they were asking 40$ for it :screwy: ?.....I was running on the assumption it was metallic...but reading back your messages, you had indeed mentioned it already ; sorry for my confusion.
...is the replacement plastic too?
Thanks to your experience, and reporting it here, it is incitative to go and check for stress in our own installation...may be we can prevent it from happening...

replacement is metal with o-ring ( DORMAN #56359 heater hose fitting 5/8 hose 1 14 UNS thread for GM 90-95 made in china....$8.99 cdn +tax of course.... from Partsource) I'll upload pics and results later today

How do i upload the pictures???? the repair is complete... easier than i thought the broken unscrewed with a tool... looked like a large tap( attached to the air tool... gripped the inner surface and spun it out......the alternator was put aside for access . It took about 30 min to actually do the repair ... I have pics but no way to upload.......


New problem.... van cuts off when i stop ....if i slow to a roll and stop the tach dips and catches again 1/2 the time stalls the other half....If i shift to neutral be the stutter it's fine... I'll check the other posts

Here are the pics of the part and location...
http://www.avigex.ca/xport/img1231.jpg
http://www.avigex.ca/xport/img1233.jpg
http://www.avigex.ca/xport/img1237.jpg
in hindsight i probably
could have saved the 80 bucks and done the job myself as it seems
straight forward.
In speaking to the Tech this is a very common problem. Is it possible
that this may also be a contributor to the frequency of intake
manifold failure. I've had a minor coolant leak for a while... if this is a
wide spread problem and people don't notice the coolant loss, what
could that lead too. Also I'm looking at the break and the surface is old
and worn... not the sharp edges I'd expect from a new break... thanks
for all the help maybe someone else can benefit from this episode

New problem.... van cuts off when i stop ....if i slow to a roll and stop the tach dips and catches again 1/2 the time stalls the other half....If i shift to neutral be the stutter it's fine...
Does that mean half of the time it will stall the engine when you stop unless you shift to neutral ? If that is the case, it looks like a sticking TCC solenoid....

where and how do i address the TCC solenoid?

I wished you would deny my interpretation....the TCC solenoid in that transmission is not an easy reach. Requires removing the transmisison end cover but the power take out for the left half shaft passes through. This subject came before and conclusion is transmission must go out....
IN such a case,
I would try a transmission conditioner, even if my confidence in those magic potions is very limited, but I would go for an act of faith...I would go under and change transmission oil and filter , hoping that a piece of debris is temporarily impairing the solenoid valve operation and that it might escape...

NOw the good news: One way to postpone the operation to a later date is to prevent TCC operation. If it does not engage, it will not stick. Just disconnect connector A or D from the TCC plug. It will pop a code but of no consequence. YOu loose Torque CONverter Clutch hence maybe 2 mpg at highway speed, but nothing is changed in city driving since TCC does not apply at low speeds.
http://www.avigex.ca/xport/tccloc.jpg
http://www.avigex.ca/xport/tccconnector.jpg

I am trying to dispute this conclusion also...I read a post regarding surges when applying the break at stops it turned out to be a broken wire(pink) from the MFS.....shorts in the PLASTIC WAGON seem to be common. ( I'll read it again as I did so late last night...It's worth a shot)... in any case this started in June immediately after I changed the passenger side driveshaft...the van would shudder in right turns also....... this persisted through a trip out east and got progressively worse... but manageable( as i feel the shudder coming on i release the gas peddle .... and re apply till it catches) Highway driving is usually not a problem but city driving can be interesting) ...The transmission conditioner is a maybe ... I did try that and got a few days of perfect performance but it was short lived...... The tranny was rebuilt a couple of years ago and I'm not prepared to spend that kind of money again.. I do a lot of highway so I've resisted disconnecting the TCC..But the stalling is troubling... (who wants the engine to cut out in an intersection making a turn)

In any case this morning i went for a short hop and no problems... I'm looking into if the stalling is heat related... sorry for the novel


LMP.. in a post from 2005( 95 3.8 stalling out when stopped ) you wrote

"MAF (Mass Air FLow) sensor measures the exact amount of air entering the engine and delivers fuel accordingly. If dirty, it responds with a lag that can induce oscillations. Dirty MAF can occur if car operated without or with damaged air filter. EGR valve recirculates exhaust gazes for more burning. Not a probable issue here but disconnecting it as suggested will clear that option. "

about the time these symptoms appeared in June I also changed the airfilter... at that time some grit/sand did spill ... could this be a dirty MAF ????

DIrty MAF happened to me after some time of operation without air filter and moistened airborne dirt stuck on the MAF sense wire....so I think it does not happen on a sudden. It would retard acceleration several seconds when wanting to overtake..
Disconnecting TCC for a little while costs nothing, risks nothing, and makes of breaks the hypothesis...so I think it could be an easy test.

NOw the "right turn shudder" is something that comes consistently in the forums (mentioned several times too in the Bonneville forum), always on right hand turns, ..and while several hypothesis have been posted, no one came with a definite answer to this idiosyncrasy, of if he found, he did not post it.

disconnecting the TCC seems like the next step... as for the right turn shudder ... it does sound fluid related ...I had read a post indicating that low power steering fluid may cause a vibration ... so i checked and i was down a bit but refilling to the proper level hasn't affected the shudder....TCC is Next ... I think I may have two separate issues.... the stalling happens when the van is warn when i shift from park to drive there is a hesitation /surge where the rpm dips... also when stopped at a light it happesn ???? one thing at a time i guess

Merry Christmas.... don't know if if stuffer or just hung over.... ook I disconnected the EGR and got no change in stalling or shudder... but the CEL light is on all the time now ... how do I reset that thing???? I guess the TCC is next

The code for failed EGR will vanish once reconnected...but disconnecting the TCC will also pop another code..but that is just for test...and it will reset also.

OK the CEL reset... problem persists and seems to be worse when the engine is warm ..... would the wires( from the plugs) touching the generator or the engine block be a problem? I re arranged them so they are not in contact with anything and not chinked .. one of the front wires was snaked in a tight "s"



TCC... I located it ... ty

now? how do i disconnect the D connector in such a way as to be able to re connect it if this is not the problem....

I see pins (male ... in the socket attached to the tranny? and the female ports in ther connector....) How exactly do i isolate the "D" connection...

sorry If this is a infantile question... this is all new territory for me

OK...quite often inserting a very fine jeweler screwdriver in a socket connector will allow for unlocking it and extracting it from the plug....I've not done it on this plug ....I'll try to reach one who did exactly that last year and ask how he did it...
..here is the link to the original
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=655200

thanks LMP... I reaad the link but will wait for your reply ... the photos on the link were " not found"

This is the reply I had from Josef:

"Hi Louis,
...The Pin in question is very easy to disconnect. I just have taken a needle and pushed it in the upper hole of Pin D, as soon the needle is in the hole, you can pull on the wire and the Pin comes out. After that I Isolated the Pin with a bit of tape and fixed it on the cable. So that in case of need, it is possible to refit it without damage.
I hope this can help!..."

I think I am having the same problem but I so happen to be automotive inpaired. I have a 98 Pontiac Transport that drove beautifully, no problems. Over a year ago, it would cut off; I would turn the car off and back on and it would go. I had someone to look at it and they discovered that the coolant was coming out the exhaust pipe. I was told to keep putting coolant in until I could make it to the mechanic. Unfornately, I ended up in the hospital and when I got out, I drove the car a 1/4 mile and it died. It has been in my garage for over a year. When I had asked a mechanic what could be wrong, he said either the head gasket or the head. I need suggestions from this forum as to what you think the issue is and is it worth repairing. Know this, I loved this car. It gave me good mileage and in the snow and rain storms it kept going while other vehicles gave up. The battery is just over a year old (changed the battery just before the van started acting up) and new tires were purchased 6 months before changing the battery.

tcc disconnected...couldn't get the pin out so i cut the wire ..... cannot detect shudder because the van continuer to stalling/hesitating in gear....

van will start cold when hot it will start and shut off or start and run...( whatever it feels to do)

when accelerating it is hessitating or rather like its not getting gas( the tach shows loss of rev--- bouncing of needle??) but if i shift to nutral it revs properly..... the loss of power is when in drive ..... I can nurse it up to speed but it's a pain and getting worse.....sometimes the engin will quit in a turn.... when in nutral there is no problem with fuel


The first time this happened was leaving the garage where they removed the nipple from the intake ... they had also done an oil change and had trouble getting the filter off......

if I floor the x there will be hessitation but sometimes will kick in and hold ...
car does not cut out or hesitate in neutral...... ?????

is this a vacuum problem????

I dunno what other tests you might have done since last december...I did not read back all of it..but if not done, I would clear two issues:
- remove MAF sensor and clean wire
www.avigex.ca/xport/maf4864s.jpg
- have a fuel pressure test on fuel rail. Verify for pressure change when plugging/unplugging vacuum hose to pressure regulator.
www.avigex.ca/xport/fuelpressuregauge.jpg

LMP....Issue resolved...more or less

I was able to get the van scanned and was told MAF sensor was the error,,,So I pulled the MAF sensor and cleaned it as your suggested.(TY ).. This reduced the amount of shuddering and engin cut off's dramatically... but the van was still shuddering under loaad and around turns ..but much better than before..
Progress
I went back to the forum and to autozone just looking up MAF IAC and TPS to see what their function was and how it would relate to My symptoms....

I was looking at the IAC as the other thing to look at but decided to trace the Wires froom the MAF and eliminate that error and truely while I was rooting around the harness the the idle seemed to keep shifting but the wires had no breaks and the ground was ok

so Back to the forums and auto zone where I clicked on the definition for PVC valve and one symptom of a failed valve is oil in the air chamber befor the throttlebody.. and when I cleaned the MAF I had removed the chamber and it was sick...
so I inspected the PVC .. It seemed fine so I discounted that.... I had decided to just replace the MAF and The IAC as the best bet ...

There was a post on this forum I read a while back where a chap had all sorts of trouble ( similar) after visiting a quickie lube place. Apparently when they do the oil and filter they check any accessable filters including the PVC valve.......

NOw My woe's began LAst Last JULY (2007) when I had the van checked out befor I headed out east with the family... we changed a ball joint and the accessory belt checked the breaks and did an oil change.....

on my was home from the shop I got my first shudder... I took it back to the shop to diagnose and ended up changing plugs wires which seemed to help but the symptoms returned on the trip

The symptoms got progressivly worse but manageable as time wore on and I had resigned myself to a TCC problem that I would not fix and hobble through till the next Drive clean and scrap the car....

In December... I broke the nipple leading to the intake manifold which started this post... that fix also included an oil change..( it was convienient) and the first time it cut out on me was in the parking lot of that garage ... thinking it was more TCC stuff I didn't take it on.... as the shuddering aand stalls increased I finally tookk the big step of disconnecting the TCC ( I'm not mechanically inclined ) it was quite easy... I cut the wire..... no change in shuddering and stalling....

so here I am after getting the codes read anf following a Throttle body remedy...... yesterday I was doing an oil change on my integra..... went to crappy tire for a filter and a drain plug and while I was waiting for the kid to find me the right drain plug I picked up a $2.99 PVC valve for the Van...what the heck It couldnt hurt right?????

Did the oil change on the car and the wife is off

I remove the existing PVC valve and notice the o-ring not seated right... so I seast it on the new pvc properly and reinstall.... I jump in the van to head to the wreckers to find a MAF.......... NO MORE shudder... NO More Stalling..... WTF??????

All my symptons originate at a "shop" where an Oil Change was done apparently they do check the PVC when this happens..... when I changed the PVC and re seat the o ring.... all my symptoms vanish..........


In the other post a mechanic had found the O ring from the PVC valve missing altogether... apparently that guy spent quite a bit for a toonie part....

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=419777

http://www.lindertech.com/newsletters/nwk10~04.pdf

I got a slight shudder last night(I mean really silght) I'm thinking some throttle body cleaner ( will that harm anything???) or maybe I really do have a TTC issue now..lol... In any case

The Old Horse Is back in action..

Much Thanks.... Sorry for the novel but this story had to be told

LMP TY for your responses