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I want a 240sx!!!


plastikboy
12-09-2007, 10:00 PM
I used to own a 92 MR2. She was my first ride. I loved that car. I am married now, have kids, and I ended up selling my MR2 a while ago. Being in the navy, every once in a while I see one of the guys on base rolling in an MR2, or a 300zx or an RX-7, etc... and I've been feeling the itch to get another project. My MR2 was my first love, but 240's have always caught my eye. So I've been poking around the net only to find that to get another MR2 and perform the 3s-GTE swap I always wanted would cost me WELL over 10 g's. But I could pick up a running 240sx for around $2000. I plan to get one some time within the next year. I'm holding out for a fastback. Actually, if I could find a rolling chassis for like $800 that would be even better. I could really care less about what condition it's in because my plans would be to tear the whole thing apart and build it from the ground up.
Out of all the options out there, I think that building a KA24DE-T would be the smartest way to go, as plenty of cars here in america have KA motors. I might even get lucky enough to score a 240 with a KA power plant to begin with. One question about the 2.4l: It has a boost unfriendly compression ratio (9.5:1 i think???). I would like to build up a KA motor supporting around 350-375 reliable horses . Is it possible to achieve a lower compression ratio by installing a taller head gasket? I've seen this done before on other powerplants with good results. Where might I find a kit for this? What does that bump displacement to? Would this require any bottom end work? Sleeves? Crank/rods/pistons?
If the conversion is not as simple as just installing a spacer, would destroking be a good alternative? Destroking down to like 2.2l
How much would this kind of buildup cost? My ultimate goal would be to run 15-16psi of boost on a 7-7.5:1 compression KA24DE-T. I don't want to go as far as installing forged internals, both because I don't want to spend that much money on my buildup, and if I wanted a car that could put out more than 400hp, I'd pick a different starting point, like a 300zx with a VG30DETT or hunt down an RB25DET. Keep in mind that I don't have any use for something like that, and cost is a major factor. I like the 240sx because of the low cost and "bang for your buck" performance of its CA, SR and KA motors.
Body work, stereo equipment, rims/rubber aside, I want to spend less than $4000 on initial purchase and buildup. is this feesible?

plastikboy
12-09-2007, 10:47 PM
Okay, so I've DEF made my mind up. Screw SR20DETs. I can get a complete T3 turbo kit (turbo, intercooler, up pipe, down pipe, ex. manifold) for like $700. And considering the wide range of cars the KA24DE comes in I can pick up another motor for like $200. That's what i call tuning on a budget!

slideways...
12-10-2007, 03:04 PM
exactly. but if you want a better setup i have a turbo kit for the KA24DE for sale right now. a t3 would be at the top of its limits trying to heave out 375 whp, if you can even get that much. the kit i have will put out up to 450 or so whp reliably, with good response. my kit has a manifold, turbo, wastegate, downpipe, hardware, and if you want, big 650cc injectors and a multi-layer steel headgasket (the KA engine's biggest weak point is its headgasket). oh and the HG is .011" thicker than stock, so itll lower the compression ratio a bit. if your interested, pm me with an offer. it will be more expensive than your kit but its also all designed to go together and is all brand new never used never installed. oh and the turbo and injectors should be good for 500+whp, the manifold is a short runner design to help turbo lag, and is proven to be a noticeable restriction only above 500whp. the wastegate is a high quality design, and comes with a 7 psi and 10 psi spring, and separate downpipe.

plastikboy
12-11-2007, 01:02 AM
Okay, so I've gotten around to crunching some numbers, and this is what I've come up with:
KA24DE is a good solid motor with a nice amount of torque developing displacement, however Nissan has gone about developing power with this block the wrong way. Ideally an engine should be square (bore=stroke), and if deviation from this should occur it should be on the bore/stroke side (as the CA motors did, and thus have a reputation for being "revvy"), while the KA suffers from a shortsighted stroke/bore design, much in the same way the 305ci (5.0l) Chevy small block does. Now, while this design is fine for a truck engine (which the KA happens to also be...) in a car like a 240sx, the long stroke length and relatively small bore prevents the engine from revving. But I'm sure all of you know this, and for you SR guys, I'm just preaching to the choir. But I digress...
The specs of the KA24DE are
Bore = 89mm/Stroke = 96 mm @ 9.5:1 compression. Pretty elementary stuff. So, to make this engine more turbo friendly, one or more of the following options can be considered for making this engine more "sporting" (by that I mean, freely revving and boost friendly).
1) The stroke can be shortened with shorter custom connecting rods which achieves both decreasing compression and stroke. This would be ideal except for the fact that I used the word "custom" and custom = expensive.
2) the crank could be machined and the rods could connect at a closer radius thus achieving the goal of "destroking", without having to deviate from stock internals... parts wise anyway. The crank would need grinding and balancing anyway. On the to do list...
3) My idea of using a thicker head gasket would decrease stroke and compression while at the same time effectively INCREASING total displacement (making the combustion chamber taller) To me, this seems like the most logical solution but something to keep in mind-
if displacement per cyl is .61 litres at 9.5:1 compression, to achieve the magic "7:1" ratio total displacement per cyl would need to be increased to just under .10 litres !!! wich means that the gasket (or rather spacer) would need to be roughly 10mm (or about 2/5 of an inch) tall. Thats HUGE. perhaps a less magical number like 8 would be much more doable. I think that my math is somewhat correct. Probably not...
Whatever the case may be, either the stroke needs to be decreased by 10mm or the combustion chamber height needs to be increased by 10mm.
I hope I'm not way off on my math. Whatever the case may be, this would be something I would need to get custom made, and I can only imagine the kinds of problems I'd have with getting this setup to work without major problems.
What is the the best possible most cost effective solution to this problem? Destroke 2.4l down to around... 2.2 to get 7:1 ratio...
fuck it... probably too expensive no matter how you look at it.

slideways...
12-12-2007, 05:21 PM
1) The stroke can be shortened with shorter custom connecting rods which achieves both decreasing compression and stroke. This would be ideal except for the fact that I used the word "custom" and custom = expensive.

dont do it. well, unless you want to decrease the stroke only enough to lower the compression ratio, not to actually change the stroke. this requires a custom crank OR custom rods
2) the crank could be machined and the rods could connect at a closer radius thus achieving the goal of "destroking", without having to deviate from stock internals... parts wise anyway. The crank would need grinding and balancing anyway. On the to do list...
dont dooo ittt. destroking a motor will drop off-boost power alot. plus, the rod ratio will still be not great. and cutting metal from a stock crankshaft is risky at best. if you want a high revving motor get a honda. and learn about rod ratio. alot of honda motors are undersquare but can still rev because of a better rod ratio. leave your stroke alone.
3) My idea of using a thicker head gasket would decrease stroke and compression while at the same time effectively INCREASING total displacement (making the combustion chamber taller) To me, this seems like the most logical solution but something to keep in mind-
if displacement per cyl is .61 litres at 9.5:1 compression, to achieve the magic "7:1" ratio total displacement per cyl would need to be increased to just under .10 litres !!! wich means that the gasket (or rather spacer) would need to be roughly 10mm (or about 2/5 of an inch) tall. Thats HUGE. perhaps a less magical number like 8 would be much more doable. I think that my math is somewhat correct. Probably not...
Whatever the case may be, either the stroke needs to be decreased by 10mm or the combustion chamber height needs to be increased by 10mm.
I hope I'm not way off on my math. Whatever the case may be, this would be something I would need to get custom made, and I can only imagine the kinds of problems I'd have with getting this setup to work without major problems.

using a thicker headgasket can help in lowering compression, but shouldnt be used to lower it too much. thicker head gaskets change the head bolt torque requirements and since they are made of a non-solid material, will blow out more if they are way thick. the easiest way to lower compression is get some forged pistons with a lower compression ratio, and since your probably machining the block to make this happen, use the thicker head gasket to make up for any material removed when decking the block/head. oh and 7:1 compression is wayyy too low. from your description it seems like your trying to make a motor that revs to 10k, makes 75 hp at 4000 rpm and 6000hp at redline. go for 8.5:1. a vast majority of factory turbo cars use this compression, and it has been proven safe at very high boost levels in iron block motors (such as the 2jz).

What is the the best possible most cost effective solution to this problem? Destroke 2.4l down to around... 2.2 to get 7:1 ratio...
fuck it... probably too expensive no matter how you look at it.

do this. get 8.5:1 or 9:1 forged pistons, put em on stock rods, leave the crank alone, put on a multi layer steel headgasket, and boost away.

oh btw i have a turbo kit for sale if you want it. for the KA.
comes with:
turbo
exhaust manifold
downpipe
wastegate
WG downpipe
650cc injectors
MLS headgasket
all hardware for installation

all you need for it to be complete is pistons/fuel pump/intake piping/intercooler/BOV.

PM me if interested.

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