Head Rebuild

I found this company that will do the full head rebuild with the head hot tanked and sent thru a parts washer. This company puts on any cams, springs, retainers, and valves that you send them. For $450. This also come with the machine work such as re surfacing and a valve grind. Do you guys think that this is worth it? Or do you think I could accomplish the head rebuild with out too much of a problem.

http://www.jackstransmissions.com/product_info.php?products_id=100&osCsid=a39da5e29354c5214baee73a98427bbf

Thanks guys.

$450 for a planing, valve job, and installation is ass rape. Do it local man, theres plenty of places around here. Call MAP and ask who they use.

Alright thanks. But you did answere my real question besides using that particualar company. It would be worth it to pay the company to not only plane and what not, but also to install. Sounds good man thanks again.

Actually that's not too bad according to their site. They also put in new exhaust studs and valve guides, plus more. With all that work plus parts, $450 isn't too bad of a price.

Yeah, if you actually get the new valve springs, rockers, etc with it $450 isnt bad at all, but your first post made it sound like all you got was a planing, valve grind, and the assembly of parts that you would have to buy otherwise. I still think that you should go local though.

I spent about 1,100 on my head build. I replaced/upgraded everything except the valve guides(got remachined) and my roller rockers. Also came with a valve job. I bought all of the parts then had a local shop machine my head and put everything in except my cams.

My head conists of:
-FP Comp Cam2s
-Topline Revised Lifters
-Brian Crower Springs
-Brian Crower Titanium retainers
-Ferrea Valve Locks
-Ferrea Valve stem seals
-SI SS valves(nitrided)

I also bought all new gaskets(including a mls head gasket) and studs for the exhaust. Personally I think local is the way to go for machine work.

BTW I did buy the valve guides but did not install them they are SBI bronze valve guides. I still have them and they have never left the box. Heres the link to where I got them from. If your interested I will sell them to you cheap.

I shipped my head to Mike's Porting Service
http://www.mikesportingservice.com/
Highly recommend these guys. Great business. I think mine came to $650 for porting, polishing, cleaning, flattening, and complete intake manifold port. Included shipping also. HIGHLY recommend

Yea I am not completely sure which route I will take to get my head redone. Thanks for the input tho guys.

P.s. david-b MPS doesnt look too bad either

Yea I am not completely sure which route I will take to get my head redone. Thanks for the input tho guys.

P.s. david-b MPS doesnt look too bad either

Like I said he does great work and kept great communication throughout the entire way, both by phone and email. Any little questions I had he answered in complete details and knows what he's talking about. Just tell him what you want to do and he'll price it up quickly. It was a great pleasure dealing with the shop, which is rare because I'm the one that always gets stuck with shops that end up falling off the face of the Earth after giving my money and what not. I would say to send him an email and get a direct quote. Well worth it IMO.

And you had them replace the components and do a port/polish? I dont think I am getting a port job on the head since it already has good airflow.

Damn it guys, I have to replace my valve seals. Now your making back down from pulling my head getting new sealds and porting it myself. :(

And you had them replace the components and do a port/polish? I dont think I am getting a port job on the head since it already has good airflow.

No actually I sent the head completely bare and had the work done and sent back as is. Building is the fun part. Plus I didn't see a point in spending more in shipping to ship the parts I already had out to him to get it done. Building is fun.

Are 272s the biggest you can use with stock pistons on a 420A?

Are we talking a stock rebuild here? I bought a brand new head for $250 (it was completely stock) all I had to do was switch my cams from my old head.

Me or Joe?

I gotta rip my head off cause its burning oil. I want to swap cams in it at the same time i fix the problem that way i don't have to buy studs twices, gaskets, etc. I just don't know what would be a good duration and lift that would later on be real good for a turbo setup.

Me or Joe?

You.

No I am looking for aftermarket cams, rockers, lifters, valve stems, springs, retainers, seals. Although I will probably end up using some OEM parts.

Hey Blue, when you get straight what componenents you are using let me know. I'm gonna start a list too, the only OEMs i might use are the stem seals and (new) head bolts

Yea I felt I should do a little more reasearch before I decide on what parts should be aftermarket, and what brand. Seals and headbolts doesnt sound bad for the OEM route. I just need to learn what the OEM parts can handle to see whether or not I should go beefier. But yea, everything will be brand new lol.

No I am looking for aftermarket cams, rockers, lifters, valve stems, springs, retainers, seals. Although I will probably end up using some OEM parts.

Well how much power are you talking about here? The only way I would mess with internals, particular springs and retainers is if I was going to run very aggresive cams like 272's or beyond.

Not saying the stock head is bullet proof, but it's definately over engineered like many other parts on our car. If you are just looking for something to pair with a smaller or medium turbo app, I would just buy a new/refurbished head and swap out the springs/retainers and cams. Or just use the stocker.

Well how much power are you talking about here? The only way I would mess with internals, particular springs and retainers is if I was going to run very aggresive cams like 272's or beyond.

Not saying the stock head is bullet proof, but it's definately over engineered like many other parts on our car. If you are just looking for something to pair with a smaller or medium turbo app, I would just buy a new/refurbished head and swap out the springs/retainers and cams. Or just use the stocker.

Well I have a 420A, and SBR recommends upgrading springs/retainers if you go up to Crower Stg. 2 cams.

Well how much power are you talking about here? The only way I would mess with internals, particular springs and retainers is if I was going to run very aggresive cams like 272's or beyond.

Not saying the stock head is bullet proof, but it's definately over engineered like many other parts on our car. If you are just looking for something to pair with a smaller or medium turbo app, I would just buy a new/refurbished head and swap out the springs/retainers and cams. Or just use the stocker.

Proof I was right by saying I need to do more research lol. I was looking at getting a Big 16gE3, but then thor started talking about bastard 20g's and I have been doing a little research in that field too. Havnt made that decision yet, tho. Maybe some 272's. I dont wanna say "this is what Im getting and im stickin to it" since this is a winter project and most likly things will change.

So retainers and springs OEM. Check.

How about rocker arms and lifters?

Parts Considered:
Retainers - OEM
Springs - OEM
Valves - Not so sure. I have heard just some Mitsu's will do.
Valve Seals - Ferrea
Rockers - OEM
Lifters - OEM
Cams - Crower 272's
Cam Gears - Havnt really decided.

*Edit*
Head Bolts - ARP
Gaskets - 4-layer replacement

Sorry blue, hadn't noticed you had a list going. Add head bolts and new gaskets all around.

And another post just so i can try and match the number of posts you got, LOL.

Lol nice. Yea I forgot to throw those on the list. Hold on one sec.

All right, question...when I finish doing all this I should upgrade my injectors, pump, fail, etc? I pretty much want to have my car ready for the meet, or have a preaty strong head at least.

I am going to. -6 line fr, pump, etc. Free up some ponies

I am going to. -6 line fr, pump, etc. Free up some ponies

What do you mean, -6 line?

***EDIT***
Timing belt, hope when you get to buying these items it all comes together and you don't have to go back to the store.

6-an SS fuel line, Allow more flow to the fuel rail.

http://www.slowboyracing.com/estore/product.php?productid=1183&cat=87&page=1

You just can't add -6an line from the filter to the rail and expect more hp. Even with a FP. You need someway to control more fuel then, DSMLink or some sort of fuel management. The stock lines are good for quite a bit of hp. Most people use the SS line because it's easier to work with (cleaner, more secure fitting) when installing FPR. You're still basically being restricted to the fuel line coming from the tank and the return. Unless you have a massively high HP setup, you really don't need it. My ramblings.

Well I know I will be running link. And im going to be getting a FPR.

Well I know I will be running link. And im going to be getting a FPR.

I just want to clarify my head post from earlier. If you are going to run 272's or higher cams. You need to replace the OEM springs/retainers with aftermarket to allow for more cam cleareance on the spring side. Basicly the stock spring won't compress far enough to allow the cam it's full travel. Not saying that 272's won't work on stock head's, as they will just fine.

But anything larger than 272's you are most definately going to have to change the springs.

No prob, couldn't find anything over 254 for my 420A.

No prob, couldn't find anything over 254 for my 420A.

You're confusing the hell outta me Joe. I was talking to bleed (I am a 4g63 guy) but this much I do know. It would be dependent on how lopey or aggressive the stock cams are compared to what cams you are putting in there. It's a safe bet to assume that the springs in a 420a head are probably miled for whatever the cam lift/duration is on the stock cams.

For example in my previous post 272's are the most aggressive you can go on the 4g63T which has a stock duration and lift of, 248°/248° & .349"/.350" . The 272's are just that 272/272 & .401"/.381" What that tells me is that the stock factory springs in a mitsu head (4g63) are probably good to around .400" of lift.

However being that the 420a is a Chrysler/Dodge motor, I am unsure if this would translate in anyway to the 420a. Your best bet would be to check their respective forums and find out the max cams you can run on stock head internals. Or see if David-B or anyone knows this.

Blue, I'm sending you a PM.

Thanks for the help Defiancy. 272's it is.

Ya there's too many people in this post posting about different things.

For Joe: Stock springs/retainers will work with most cams, UNLESS you get a turbo grind-grade cam.

Duration on stock cams are: 222 / 220
Lift: .324" / .275"
The ones your looking at are Stage 3: 254 / 250
Lift: .444" / .437"

There's a huge difference in lift between stockers and the Crower stage 3 cams. I'm not exactly sure how much the stock springs can run, but we are talking Chrysler parts now, not Mitsu, so it may not be as good as the Mitsu springs. I would imagine that the stocks on here would probably hold about ~.375 - ~.400 of lift also. So, upgrade springs and retainers are a must.

My stage 2 are at .388" / .357" and I upgraded. May as well since everything is taken apart right? Anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

Are we talking a 4g63 head or a 420a head? I'm confused as hell. Either way, it's not *necessary* up upgrade the springs/retainers with Crower Stage 2, but it's highly recommended. Anything bigger than that, you'll definitely need to upgrade the rest of the head.

That was just the thing. We're talking about BOTH the 4g63 and 420a. That's why everyone is confuzzeled. What I gave was for the 420a, and Wil gave for the 4g63.

For any further refrence on this topic, I (bleedEGLblue lol) have the 4g63T. JoeSchmoeAltima has a 420a. Sorry for the confusion.

Won't I lose vacuum if I go more than stage 2? I would rather go with stage 3s but then I would not have a DD anymore.

Ah the tough decisions you have to make. How dificult is putting in springs that could accomodate more that 272's? Is it just plug and play?

Ah the tough decisions you have to make. How dificult is putting in springs that could accomodate more that 272's? Is it just plug and play?


http://www.vfaq.com/mods/Valvestem-seals.html


This is for seals but you have to take the springs/retainers off to get to the valvestem seals.

:frown:The link didnt work for me. But I found it. Thanks man.

Springs are easy to install. Just have to compress them down, take out the valve lock, take off retainers/springs. Install is opposite. Much easier with head off the car as when you compress the spring, you have to make sure there's clearance with valve-to-piston.

And for Joe... not really. Without any major upgrades, the stage 3 is going to be over kill. Your idle is going to suck, DDriving is going to be hard, and you won't get that great of performance IMO. You really need a turbo for those grade of cams, and be using it as a drag car. However, it's up to you. So unless you're building it up, stage 2 is fine. What do you plan on doing with it? Full build?

please say yea, please say yes. Lol, I wanna witness someone building up a 420a.

You will completely kill the powerband on a stock 420a with Crower 3's. You'll need some high compression pistons and a good tuning system to make them produce any power.

Fixed the link.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/Valvestem-seals.html

LOL, here we go. I wanted to have the head with stronger valves, springs, cams, gears, porting (myself) and all new seals. First step in beefing up teh 420A would be the head, I want to make it bullet proof. Next I want to drop a turbo in it, running 8psi at most. Last but not least I would move on to the engine block, upgrading the piston components and getting anything lightweight. Hell I'd probably get rid of the AC all together. What do you guys think?

***EDIT***
Can't forget a management system, didn't really want o go into specifics.

I would say build the block and turbo at the same time. Ya, you're going to build the head. That's fine. Gets you more power. Then if you turbo, you have a built head with a stock block with x amount of miles on it. Somethings going to break. Would be best to build a block that can handle a turbo, slap a turbo on it, then put the built head on. When I do mine, that's how I'm doing. Plus if you do it like that, you have to install the turbo and the head twice.

A/C is easy to get rid of.

You may want to sit down, come up with exactly what you want to get in parts, (being realistic) and we'll go from there. Do you know turbo you're going to run? HOw much hp you looking for? Lots of questions.

Too many questions lol.

LOL, here we go. I wanted to have the head with stronger valves, springs, cams, gears, porting (myself) and all new seals. First step in beefing up teh 420A would be the head, I want to make it bullet proof. Next I want to drop a turbo in it, running 8psi at most. Last but not least I would move on to the engine block, upgrading the piston components and getting anything lightweight. Hell I'd probably get rid of the AC all together. What do you guys think?

***EDIT***
Can't forget a management system, didn't really want o go into specifics.

Actually, you're going in reverse. The stock 420a head can flow very well, and support a good amount of power. IIRC, Hahn was running a stock head on his car when he was in the 11's or 10's. That just goes to show that you don't need to start with the head.
If I was you, I'd start with the block. New pitsons/rods/rings and maybe an overbore if you want, but that's where I'd start if I were going to start over with my RS.

Sorry to keep you guys in the dark but my bonus for the year hasn't come in yet, should be anywhere from $600-$1400. I usually get it the second week of Dec, but nothing yet.
Anywho I just dropped a buddy off in Lafayette, that was $700 in pocket now. My sister paid me some $300 she owed me so I am sitting at $1k in my hand. I'm still waiting for that bonus before I begin, is it enough?

I will pulling my block out, per Garrett, and replacing components. And the valvetrain too, all the stuff we mentioned above.:grinyes:

Sorry to keep you guys in the dark but my bonus for the year hasn't come in yet, should be anywhere from $600-$1400. I usually get it the second week of Dec, but nothing yet.
Anywho I just dropped a buddy off in Lafayette, that was $700 in pocket now. My sister paid me some $300 she owed me so I am sitting at $1k in my hand. I'm still waiting for that bonus before I begin, is it enough?

I will pulling my block out, per Garrett, and replacing components. And the valvetrain too, all the stuff we mentioned above.:grinyes:

???

Depending on how much you have to spend, building the motor and going turbo at the same time is a good idea. If you can only do one right now, put the turbo on first. If you build the motor and dont turbo it you will be left with one slow ass low compression NA car.

Well seeing the pics of MazdaX's engine block makes me weary that my enginge won't handle the turbo. I will have about $2400 in about a week.

Mine has held up fine for almost 15K miles now.