eclipse...or trans am?

well....im looking for a car now....ive narrowed it down to and 97-99 eclipse GST or a 4 gen. trans am.....ive been trying to find performance specifications, but failing, so the question is, which one to get, and trying to find out some eclipse performance specs...

Seriously man come on. You asked an eclipse forum what car is better. Of course we are going to say eclipses. It's all what you want out of the car and what mods you plan on doing. DSM's have a wide variety of aftermarket performance parts. With little money and free mods a turbo'd awd dsm will be able to take down a stock trans am with ease.

Search yahoo or google and you will find out what a dsm is capable of and what parts and $ it takes to get you to a certain HP goal.

If you want a car thats already fast and don't want to do any work to it then get the trans am. I don't know about you but I enjoy knowing that I can hold my own against most stock and lightly modded v8's in my little 4 cylinder. Just so you know the 2g eclipses came out of the factory with 210 hp to the engine.

Welcome to AF, and if you decide on the eclipse, let us know, we are always glad to offer help to a fellow DSM'er.

Get an eclipse, you wont be dissapointed...:naughty:

Well I have nothing bad to say about either car... Personally if you are considering a turbo DSM then I would go all out on it and make sure you find an AWD model. Trust me on this one, the AWD makes a huge difference from the FWD models for launching at the track and overall handling... I can tell you that you can pick up a nice GSX or 4g Trans Am for about the same price... The Trans Am might be slightly more if your looking for one with the LS1 in it rather than the LT1... I have seen DSM's that are built anywhere from factory 210hp all the way up to 1000hp... All are impressive and can handle quite the challenge from a decently modded f-body. Of course if you have the money to spend on the Trans Am, then it can be built to be so much more powerful than the GSX but you will lose out on traction and launching naturally... The GSX will have crazy power off the line and no problems with traction... Unless you build a ridiculous GSX then I have seen them spin all 4 wheels off the line and have trouble hooking up. I guess it really depends on what you want out of the car and what your plans are for it... If your going stock for stock, I'd take the Trans Am hands down. More power and its just so sexy looking... If your gonna do some slight modding, then the GSX can have more power for very little money, whereas the Trans Am will cost more to upgrade... If your going all out with a ridiculous build, then it could go either way...

Wow, that turned out a bit longer than I thought it was gonna be. lol Sorry...

At least you got an opinion from a great fan of both cars. lol

yeah i was kinda thinking that everyone was thinking eclipse....ive been looking on carsoup autotrader ect. ect. and i just cant find any good GSX's, there all have an automatic tranny....if i did by a GSX what mods would you suggest putting in if you had like 500-750$$ to spend?

My objective advice: get an Eclipse GSX or a Talon TSI AWD. If you cannot find an AWD DSM then dont bother with the GST, head for the Trans Am. However, dont bother with the V6. That is from a performance stang point of course, if its just going to be a get around car with some spunk then whatever.

if i did by a GSX what mods would you suggest putting in if you had like 500-750$$ to spend?
Intake, 3" exhaust, aftermarket blow off valve, NGK plugs, heavier plug wires, manual boost controller, AFC or GM Maft and translator, front mount intercooler and intercooler pipes... All in all you should be able to turn up the boost on the turbo to a happy 14psi or so and tune it all up and it should run around 250ish or so I would think... Once you get more money, upgrade the turbo to an evo 16g or something of that size and upgrade your fuel pump and injectors and you could push up to 350ish hp on a good tune...

That is one good thing about these cars, you can upgrade them for a relatively good price and the stock internals are rated to be good to about 400hp before needing upgraded...

Brian, you'd never get all that shit for $750. If you got all used you'd be doing really good to get it under a grand.

First off, make sure your routine maintenance is done. After that, I would suggest a K&N filter ($40), a 3" exhaust (go used if you can, $350+), a 1g BOV ($25), MBC (get a JoeP, $40), and a boost guage($40+) first, that should shoot your $750 pretty quick. If you have some spare cash after that, a hard upper intercooler pipe would be good. That should give your car a little more pep, but keep in mind if you want a fast car you are going to have to spend more than $750.

I think brian was just giving ideas of what should be done to the car, not necisarily using that budget. A FMIC and gm maf isin't really needed, the stock side mount should be fine untill you get the 16g.

I think brian was just giving ideas of what should be done to the car, not necisarily using that budget.
Yeah pretty much. lol... I know you could do a good bit of the smaller stuff under the 750 mark, but I knew the rest would come after. Hence why I said "once you get more money" lol...


A FMIC and gm maf isin't really needed, the stock side mount should be fine untill you get the 16g.
True... I guess I was just doing it all in a safer conservative manner... I would hate to see somebody get a bigger turbo and not run a front mount and be running too lean and run into problems cause of it... :dunno:

You mean you dont want them to knock right?

I'm just going to follow you around and contradict the hell out of you today. :p

You mean you dont want them to knock right?

I'm just going to follow you around and contradict the hell out of you today. :p


Haha. I think you should do this even when Brian is right. Just keep arguing the loosing side as fact.

now for the second question

i cant find any manual GSX's anywhere....only GST's, why are the GST's so bad? i know there front wheel drive and stuff.....but can anyone hook me up with some links to proper car sites?

i cant find any manual GSX's anywhere....only GST's, why are the GST's so bad?
Because the wheel hop is ridiculous and you will have an easier chance at breaking things with more power on a GST... Did you try searching for Eagle Talon TSi AWD's? They will run much cheaper than a GSX will and there are probably more of them than GSX's for sale.

you dont break more on a gst. you would break less. you just burn out instead of with the awd you break stuff. i have both. i have a 1995 talon awd with about 5 houndred horses and a 1997 gst spider with about 320 hp. of course the talon will blow the wheels off but i love driving the spider almost as much. and as far as the wheel hop. i just bought eibock pro springs and polyeuiphane motor mounts and it got rid of that. dont get me wrong it still burns out but it is better. oh and i have raced trans am ls1, and 350z with some preformance stuff done and the eclipse is dead even with them. i get them a little on the launch. so if you are not planning on drag racing it then you really dont need the awd. plus the fwd is geared higher and i get 29 mpg in it. 22-24 in the talon.

500 horses with a 16g? I call BULLSHIT

500 horses with a 16g? I call BULLSHIT
I'm thinking the same thing... I'm not saying it doesn't have some good power to it with all you have in your sig, but I'm sorry there is no way you have 500hp running from a 16g...

With only 550cc injectors...

With only 550cc injectors...
Wow I don't even know how I missed that part... :shakehead

Especially only tuning with a SAFC NEO and no keydiver. Thats basically the same setup I run with 20-22 psi, and I'd be surprised if I made anything over 300awhp.

Well during my search i found way less TSIs but they were cheaper, it took me 6 months to find mine and i had to get it from florida so they arent common and dont waste your time with an auto the 5spd is so much damn fun. If you live somewhere where it snows the GSX is a no brainer, mine handles like a champ with balding summer tires in the snow. Personlly i think TAs look like ass but they do haul for how much your gonna pay for stock one.

where ive been looking the ta's are a lot cheaper and there are more of them....but i absolutely love eclipses....

you guys are funny. first off i did not say awhp. you would really have to try hard to get that. the car has about 500 hp to the crank. now im not saying that it has excatly that much hp but it is damb close. oh and the evo 3 16g is rated to 400awhp with supporting mods. that is about 500 to the crank. i could be wrong and i have seen a hand full of these cars set up like mine and they all seem to dyno about 350-400awhp equels about 450-500 crank hp. thats how i figure. but i do need bigger injectors i hit cut out around 23+ pounds of boost. plus i have a few things i done have on there i ran out of room. hks 272 cams and gears- plus i have a 3in intercooler on the way. but all i was saying is that you dont break more on the gst. and giving him a comparison.

Too bad you have no where near the fuel to make 400awhp. Even Slowboy needed 650's to make 400awhp. Not saying you don't have an OK setup, but don't just take a number from the air without proof.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141670&highlight=sbr+400

you guys are funny. first off i did not say awhp. you would really have to try hard to get that. the car has about 500 hp to the crank. now im not saying that it has excatly that much hp but it is damb close. oh and the evo 3 16g is rated to 400awhp with supporting mods. that is about 500 to the crank. i could be wrong and i have seen a hand full of these cars set up like mine and they all seem to dyno about 350-400awhp equels about 450-500 crank hp. thats how i figure. but i do need bigger injectors i hit cut out around 23+ pounds of boost. plus i have a few things i done have on there i ran out of room. hks 272 cams and gears- plus i have a 3in intercooler on the way. but all i was saying is that you dont break more on the gst. and giving him a comparison.

You don't lose 100 hp through the drivetrain. More like 1/10 your hp.

as a mechanic i say stay away from the eclipse fucking mitsu trans misions are garbage and have several other issues to. plus the resale value of the mitsu will plumet. as for the trans am hard on fuel some intake issues get rid dexcool u will be better of with green coolant. if you do no believe me google dexcool. good luck and happy shopping rob noxious1

as a mechanic i say stay away from the eclipse fucking mitsu trans misions are garbage and have several other issues to. plus the resale value of the mitsu will plumet. as for the trans am hard on fuel some intake issues get rid dexcool u will be better of with green coolant. if you do no believe me google dexcool. good luck and happy shopping rob noxious1

Better wear a helmet when they let you out next time

Better wear a helmet when they let you out next timeme a helmet as far as i could see this guy was looking for a near stoch vehicle and mitsu's are garbage in my opinion and if you guys want to go fats i think you are approaching it wrong i have $4000 into the powertrain of my 81 regal that does 12.5 second guarters almost every weekend and i drive it to and from work during the week,

me a helmet as far as i could see this guy was looking for a near stoch vehicle and mitsu's are garbage in my opinion and if you guys want to go fats i think you are approaching it wrong i have $4000 into the powertrain of my 81 regal that does 12.5 second guarters almost every weekend and i drive it to and from work during the week,

I honestly don't care what you drive, how fast it goes, or what color it is. If you say 4 grand will land you in mid 12's in your regal then thats all well and fine. But if you give any respectable member of the DSM community $4000, they will build one faster than 12.5 and still be a daily driver. I can tell you must not be familiar with the REAL side of our community.

I honestly don't care what you drive, how fast it goes, or what color it is. If you say 4 grand will land you in mid 12's in your regal then thats all well and fine. But if you give any respectable member of the DSM community $4000, they will build one faster than 12.5 and still be a daily driver. I can tell you must not be familiar with the REAL side of our community.i am fully familiar with the import performance community that is a good part of the work that i do and i have a tuff time believing that for $4000 u can build an import any import other that a skyline or a cosmo that will run consitent 12 and be reliable but if you can then congrats.

Don't equate DSM with a Honda (or Skyline's for that matter, but on a totally different spectrum). We don't need an engine rebuild when we want 400 horsepower. We have an excellent platform to build on.

Oh my god what a thread. First off, who gives a butt fuck what power it makes at the crank? Thats a number that means little if anything at all and is decieving as hell in a world where most people go by whp. On 550cc injectors, fuel tuning with a damn SAFC, no FMIC, and no ignition control there is no way you are even close. To max out that turbo (or pretty much anyone for that matter) you are looking at some good intercooling, a SMIM, crazier cams than the 272's, and a hella good tune with something far more capable than a SAFC. I'm not even going to bench race some approximate numbers for you, but know that it is for damn sure not even close to 400 whp or 500 bhp.

Second, robnoxiousauto, the fact that you are a mechanic and you have a 12.5 second Regal has got nothing to do with your knowledge of cars, I've seen and heard plenty of "mechanics" slinging shit around like they know whats what when they dont really have a damn clue. Sure the DSM tranny doesnt compare to some GM trannies, but I can tell you with certainty it isnt exactly a slouch either. Not going to lie, mitsu did fuck stuff up a little, but that doesnt detract from the fact that there are oodles of STOCK DSM trannies and drivetrains getting their drivers 12 second slips on the weekend and back at work on Monday morning.

EDIT: This is true, and we've only got half the cylinders you do. I have less than $2500 including the price of my car into my DSM and my giant shit pile of spare parts and its hanging tough with stock LS1 Camaros which I think run mid 13's, keep in mind that is on stock boost and without my cams installed and my gay slipping ass clutch.

I like V8 camaros/trans ams, but you couldnt pay me enough to work on them son of a bitches. I am all too familiar with working on a 95 z28, and I dread it. It took me and my best friend working non stop from 8am to 4pm to change the header gaskets, spark plugs, and plug wires. The plug wires were a freakin bitch. Thats why the ones we took off were the original wires with 180k on them...cause they are so damn hard to change. Like I said, I like v8 cams/trans ams, but I dont like to work on them. My friends z28 i was talking about is a full street car running mid 12's on street tires, but its not stock. Its fast but I'd much rather work on the eclipse!

Anything over a turbochared 4 cyl = teh emo ghey. Period, end of story.

Second, robnoxiousauto, even if you were "Dom" off of F&F, we wouldn't give two shits about your input. Obviously as a "mechanic," you have had no real experience with DSM's and have the typical domestic gearhead mechanic attitude...."they're a piece of shit." So you put 4g's into your fuckin what...Buick Regal? HAHAHAHA big whoop...give me $4000 to put into my Talon and i'll run circles around you alllllll damn day. Unless you KNOW what you're talking about, get the hell out.

Better wear a helmet when they let you out next time

HAHA. I just saw that and had to say that I laughed for about 5 minutes. As for the "No replacement for displacement" way of thinking, yea there is, its called a turbo. With my pretty much stock 4 cyl except for cams and a 16g, I was able to launch 2 cars on a camaro with an ls2 and stay ahead for the whole race without him gaining any ground on me until after 100mph, but by then the 1/4 mile was over.

I don't know for sure my hp. I don't care. like i said just going off ones I have seen simular to mine. but I have run a 7.8 1/8 mile and a 11.9 1/4. that I do know for sure. I only have about 1k in my spider and it is neck and neck with my buddys ls1. and that's just a front wheel drive. oh and I don't remember who said this but you deff lose more then 10% to the wheels to an awd. sorry buddy research it.

For everyone who thinks they are so much better then us..... Heres a real nice example that shows that the size of your engine doesnt mean shit....

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1588658

oh and I don't remember who said this but you deff lose more then 10% to the wheels to an awd. sorry buddy research it.

Well you sure as hell don't lose 100hp. That would mean that a stock gsx would only put down 110 to the wheels.....:uhoh:

I almost bought a GSX with about 500hp under the hood, and i saw dyno sheets to prove it. It pushed close to 460-470 at the wheels, so the 10% theory is a little off...

IIRC AWD is like 20-22% while FWD is like 14-16%. Drivetrain loss isnt a set value, a 200 bhp car, a 600 bhp car, and a 2000 bhp car with the same drivetrain are all going to lose xx% of the flywheel horsepower.

well i just test drove a eclipse GS spyder convertable....it had a lotta balls for not havin a turbo....that was the most awesome car i have ever drivin in my life! now i really want to get an eclipse

[quote= Not going to lie, mitsu did fuck stuff up a little,=quote]

Hey dont be too hard on ourselves our trannys may be a little weak but fuck at least our entire cars arent pices of shit made in the 80s. Im sorry but America couldnt build shit in the 80s.
Edit : The Regal GNX but shit you preaching to the choir on that one

Yeah, they're decent enough trannies, but I read an article on how mitsu opted to go with a smaller and lighter tranny over a bigger one (I assume the difference between a wideblock and a narrowblock) and because of the smaller size they had to skimp on some things and the result was our trannies being a bit on the notchy side.

yea dude I'm telling you I would not trade my spider for anything. it is the funest car to drive. but make sure you get to gst sorry but they are built twice the car and there are not a tun more. trust me. you will be happy that route.

And this thread still survives why?

Lock please.

yea dude I'm telling you I would not trade my spider for anything. it is the funest car to drive. but make sure you get to gst sorry but they are built twice the car and there are not a tun more. trust me. you will be happy that route.

What the heck are you talking about? GST over a GSX? Are you insane?

What do you want to completely suck off the line, and only be able to race people on the freeway?

I've owned both, and I'll never own another GST.

What the heck are you talking about? GST over a GSX? Are you insane?

What do you want to completely suck off the line, and only be able to race people on the freeway?

I've owned both, and I'll never own another GST.

man you cant even write a responce on here with out people that have not even read the stuff saying you are wrong. il tell you what. when you find a gsx comvertable let me know. yes i know all about the gsx i have one to. im just talking about fun to drive. like girls saying oh my. its just a different kind of fun.

Die thread die!!

:chair:


For clarification, I locked this thread because it has run its course and no new or good info is coming from it and has been reduced to a pointless bash fest.