The Damage Done

How difficult will it be to repair the front end of a 92 lesabre when the radiator has been smashed back, bending the radiator support frame (which is allegedly replaceable, but looks welded in to me), with a bumper which was aggressively pushed downward as I was rammed into a car (buick rendevous) which was higher up than I was?

The impact took the bumper out of the equation, so my then-brand-new grille died, and the radiator and front plugs are now too close for comfort...thankfully gm made a car that could still drive after a severe impact, as the fans are placed to not sever the plug wires if they are forced way way back, as in my case. Sadly, the deflection looks like it literally tore the metal which supports the passenger-side Bumper Shock Absorber, which is a large problem....my ride looks like she's smiling (curved downward bumper...)...and I wouldn't be smiling if I were her.

Here are some pics so that the knowledgable members of the Buick Brotherhood can get a better understanding of what I'm asking, as I'm sure my eloquent description left _some_ holes....

http://vader.aacc.edu/%7Ecsi235b11/images/Meia/Damage/front/Resized/Full_Frontal%20%28Small%29.JPG

Recessed Radiator (http://vader.aacc.edu/%7Ecsi235b11/images/Meia/Damage/front/Resized/Recessed_Radiator%20%28Small%29.JPG)

Depressed Bumper (http://vader.aacc.edu/%7Ecsi235b11/images/Meia/Damage/front/Resized/Depressed_Bumper%20%28Small%29.JPG)

Passenger-Side Bumper Shock (http://vader.aacc.edu/%7Ecsi235b11/images/Meia/Damage/front/Resized/Deflected_Passenger_Bumper_Shock%20%28Small%29.JPG )

Torn Metal around Bumper Shock (http://vader.aacc.edu/%7Ecsi235b11/images/Meia/Damage/front/Resized/Deflected_Passenger_Bumper_Shock_TornMetal%20%28Sm all%29.JPG)

Just FYI, the good bumper shock (http://vader.aacc.edu/%7Ecsi235b11/images/Meia/Damage/front/Resized/Good_Bumper_Shock_SideView%20%28Small%29.JPG)


Thank you for your assistance--I don't want my membership "Car"d to the Buick Brotherhood being taken from me without my concent, and to avoid that, I need some help :)

In my opinion it is not worth repairing. Maybe you could get a couple fenders, new grill, hood, etc. but at what cost? You'd be better off finding a dead LeSabre and swapping the engine and tranny--assuming yours are in great condition. But even that is a huge pain. If it were me and budget was a main concern and if you really like this car, find another 92 LeSabre (cars.com is a good place to start) and buy it instead. You can salvage parts from yours as you need or sell it to somebody for $200-$500.

You say that already, and you haven't even seen the damage done to the back end...I thought this was what would happen, but I can't give her up...too much sentimental value. Especially since I bought your spare computer for a 92 lesabre...btw, that arrived Wednesday 10/17/07; I fogot to message you that it came.

My engine runs in tolerable shape, but my transmission....I wouldn't place any bets on it...the shifting by the gearshift became incredibly liquid after the accident...I'm not sure on that being a good thing or not.

Repairing is difficult as the radiator frame is smashed back...I've seen replacements sold, but it looks as though I'd have to saw the bent one out, and weld a new one in. The repair manuals make it look pretty solid as well :(

I thought about rebending, but that just makes it weak. I have no welding tools or equipment either :(

This sucks--my ride never failed me, but she took a hit for me, and now it seems like I'm putting her out to pasture in a 59.99-after-mail-in-rebate PepBoys carport in my backyard :( A lawn ornament to allow my house to jump up to the redneck standards of living 'round here.

Buying a new used carwould be a good option, but I can't give up without trying...any suggestions on the frame?

(Oh, thx for the site, I am investigating other possible cars, as a plan B)


--Kevin

Is it ok to take off the tires and leave her on stands? A pedistal lol...but seriously, I'd just like to have her tireless (indefatigable) so I can reuse the tires, and I'm against putting the one tire back on with only half a bolt...it just doesn't feel right.

I don't know if the suspension in there--which is only a year old--would be damaged from no load.

The only white 92 lesabre that I've found within 250 miles of me is in Ew Jersey, and going there to tow would be complicated, and new jersey is the princess of the kingdom of toll roads, which makes me less inclined to go...and it's in the upper half of NJ, which makes it even further for a MDer such as myself to go.

If anyone in VA/WV/MD/DE or even PA knows of a 92 lesabre by them for sale....

I thought about upgrading to the Park Avenue, or another year, but a 96 PA is wholly incompatible with my parts, 94+ had wonky diagnostics, and 91 and below are an entirely different beast...so I'm staying the same, though I'm not partial to the green I have (plenty of lame looking champagne and red 92s around though).

Thanks,
--Kevin

Watch for lower rail damage here very common on this type of hit, this requires set up and measure then pull the unibody lower rails. For insurance purposes this car would be well beyond a total loss.

My ride was declared totaled by the insurance inspector with just one look at the front...when he saw the back, he declared her "doubly totaled".

Of course, I didn't want to believe it, but I knew it was true....affirmation doesn't always work :(

Here's a shot of the rear, just FYI...the rear quarterpanel is apparently non-replacable (why?!?), and as you can see, the impact has bent it downward on the right...the lower trunk frame is actually bowed in where the latch is.

(I could resize the image, if the forum had the options)

Rear Shot--Bumper (http://vader.aacc.edu/%7Ecsi235b11/images/Meia/Damage/rear/rear_bumper.jpg)

Rear Driver's-Side Fender (http://vader.aacc.edu/%7Ecsi235b11/images/Meia/Damage/rear/reardriver_fender.jpg)

Rear Passenger's-Side Fender (http://vader.aacc.edu/%7Ecsi235b11/images/Meia/Damage/rear/rearpass_fender.jpg)

Full Back-End Shot (http://vader.aacc.edu/%7Ecsi235b11/images/Meia/Damage/rear/rear_full.jpg)

The extent of the right-side lowering has gone so far as to render the rear-right door inoperable :(

How similar is the 1993 LeSabre to the 1992 LeSabre when it comes to swappable parts, and especially repair manuals?

If I hear correctly, the 93 is the only lesabre truly similar to the 92, as 94 introduced the wonky obd1+ setup....

Looking for 92s And 93s greatly expands my market...but I don't want to have to go hunting for rare 93 manuals, as the actual buick electronic manual and body repair manual were near impossible to find...I hope they don't just become useless additions to my library.

How is a 93 lesabre anyhow?

How similar is the 1993 LeSabre to the 1992 LeSabre when it comes to swappable parts, and especially repair manuals?

If I hear correctly, the 93 is the only lesabre truly similar to the 92, as 94 introduced the wonky obd1+ setup....

Looking for 92s And 93s greatly expands my market...but I don't want to have to go hunting for rare 93 manuals, as the actual buick electronic manual and body repair manual were near impossible to find...I hope they don't just become useless additions to my library.

How is a 93 lesabre anyhow?

The engine is a little different, but basically it is the same car. Most of the info in the manual will still apply. The intake manifold went from metal to plastic in 93.

I really wish you lived closer to me. I have a 93 buick lesabre that looked much like your 92 (same color). the body on my Lesabre is in very good condition but the engine went. (currently has a piston slap ).

I just have it sitting in my driveway, I want to sell it but haven't got around to it yet.

I'm hoping to get 1000 bucks obo. It also has a new set of rotors and pads, I put those on just before I started to hear the engine rattle.

Anyway its to bad because it sounds like your engine would be a possible fit for my car.

That would be too perfect--the engine is the only thing which is good about my ride. The body damage aside, the paint flake soff like terminal dandruff...i had to shell out 400 to have the roof painted as there was no paint up there, and my interior has seen far better days.

...and I have the 1k. I've given up on finding a white lesabre, but all the lesabres around here for sale are crappy....buicks last forever, but for these abused cars to live forever is a fate worse than death. Smoke, cigarette holes, broken interiors...they have immortality, just without eternal youth :(

So with no other real options, I'm going to repair her as best I can, and use her as my in-town ride, and perfect moves like the "handbrake" turn, as risky maneuvers are always better in a so-called beater. The worst gas mileage I ever got with her was 20.96....the BEST mileage that I've ever gotten in my 2002 Sport Trac is 20.19....and that was on highways (the 20.96 was mixed driving). Commuting around town means that I only get 18 or 19 mpg with my truck, and that's really a waste. No sense in carrying that bed around if you're not really using it, right?

How far off are you anyhow?

my thoughts are with you while you try to grieve and move on. i had a 97 regal that i loved and planned on driving forever, until an old man in a ford pickup changed everything. my car wasnt badly damaged, but the airbags came out and the A pillar was bent. so that totalled her along with her age and mileage. 97 with 99,000 but to the junk yard she went. i still hate it.

i think insurance people love when a buick gets wrecked, they almost never repair a buick.

The insurance guy pronouonced my ride "doubly totaled", so I support your theory on insurance guys.

Bluetooth headsets are retarded. They cause accidents ;(

("...Plus, it makes you look like you're talkin' to yourself...they've got a word for people like that...you know, people put a phone to their head to tell other people not to talk to you till you're off the phone, otherwise people would be trying to talk to you and think you were talkin to them and....")

Oh, and there are only FIVE white 92 lesabres available in all of the United States...that's sad (but true). I guess everyone either keeps em or junks em.

I'm in Canada. Winnipeg, Manitoba.

BTW - I had zero rust, and the interior was mint.

My problem is that unless you know someone that wants to work on a car, they will not even come to look at the car if they know about engine problems. I'm honest and I don't want to lie to people.

I could still drive her but as you reve the engine you could hear the rattle. Its too bad because she was a very nice riding car.

I bought a 2001 Lesabre to replace her. I like the newer one too.

How long ago did your lesabre decide to part with a part of its piston?

I've been to Canada several times since I lost my lesabre to the rear ambush of a rental car...I could have brought back a souvinier of real merit ;)

Of course, I was in Ontario, and manitoba is right next door...though winnipeg is further west than the so-called "midwest" united states, putting it more than a quarter of the country away latitude wise from me.

But hey, that's what summer roadtrips are for....I got to Toronto in a day...what kind of roadtrip is only a day long?

Oh well. Canada was cool enough to not even bother checking our passports though....the US border patrol practically stripped down my car searching it, and scoured our passports...though that was largely due to my friend being an unintentional idiot.

("Sir, where are you coming from?" "Canada!", shouts my friend in the backseat...and then we get the scowl of death. Some men you just cain't reach)


A more recent LeSabre would be nice, but I'd feel wrong modifing a nice looking newer car.

Some people just don't understand that an old car--known for reliabilty--with some engine problems makes a great project car. :(

My engine went about a month and a half ago. But it was a great car while it lasted.

I understand your love for your car.

Mine could be fixed (rebuilt engine) but I don't have the time so I was just going to put it in the "buy and sell".

Going to the original idea on the topic, the front radiator mount _is_ replaceable, but it does require removing the radiator, fans, a/c condenser, wires and sensors, and everything else attached to it (make sure you have someone recover the refrigerant responsibly if it wasn't discharged in the accident), then drilling out all the spot welds and welding in a new one. And painting it. And reassembling all the parts. All that provided the frame and unibody are straight enough not to give you any problems. On mine (it wasn't quite as bad) I pulled the bends out the best I could with a comealong and a tree, made sure the hood latched, and drive it like that (I have a strong attachment to this specific car).

Rear quarter panels are also replaceable, but it requires welding, panel bonding, painting, etc. Yours don't look that bad though. I'm not very familiar with the structure across the back of the car other than the rear bumper, so as far as fixing the lower part where the trunk latches, I dunno.

My wife has one that is missing some parts if your interested in it I will sell it to you cheap. Its located in Worthington PA.

The real problem with the rear quarter panels is that the passenger side has been bent lower than it should be, but I was thinking that I could raise that back up...somehow.

I was thinking of getting a hitch winch for my truck anyhow, so I think I'll get one and use it to pull the frame back out in the front. If I do have to replace the radiator mount, I wouldn't bother painting it..stainless steel is ok for me, and no one will ever see it ;)

I really don't want to let my vintage lesabre go, and I'm prepared to put (more) blood, sweat, and tears into fixing her.

As for the lesabre in PA, could you tell me more about it? I'm interested....it wouldn't be white, would it ? :)

The real problem with the rear quarter panels is that the passenger side has been bent lower than it should be, but I was thinking that I could raise that back up...somehow.

I was thinking of getting a hitch winch for my truck anyhow, so I think I'll get one and use it to pull the frame back out in the front. If I do have to replace the radiator mount, I wouldn't bother painting it..stainless steel is ok for me, and no one will ever see it ;)

I really don't want to let my vintage lesabre go, and I'm prepared to put (more) blood, sweat, and tears into fixing her.

As for the lesabre in PA, could you tell me more about it? I'm interested....it wouldn't be white, would it ? :)

The frames on these cars are basically two pieces that bolt together, and also bolt to the car itself in only a few places. It would be pretty easy to replace the whole frame with one from a junkyard IF yours is damaged. It would be a far better solution than trying to bend yours back without professional body equipment. You'd need an engine hoist to support the engine/tranny and also some jackstands or stacks of wood to support the body of the car (if you use bigger pieces of wood it would spread the force out enough to not go through the floor of the vehicle.) Once your car is supported, you could get the frame off in about 30 minutes. You'd need to remove five bolts from the steering gear, four or six bolts from the frame itself that go into the body near the four corners of the frame, and also the two bolts on each side that hold the control arms to the car (use a 7/8" wrench and a 21mm socket for the smaller bolt, and a 15/16" and 1" socket for the big bolt). You will also have to likely remove a few more things, but not many (like the AC compressor shield.)

That's a cool idea, though it would require an engine hoist, and more importantly, solid ground.

Sand/Dirt doesn't seem to suitable. At the PicknPull junkyards, I don't think I'd have the luxury of a secure base, but what do I care if the junker dies? ;)

I'll need to look into this in the morning..