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What Gives.........?


BigEd1
10-21-2007, 12:30 AM
Went to Krystals today for some burgers and then for a trip to the park and eat. Did not make it to the park :( .
92 Camaro, 3.1. auto.
Got to a red light and stopped and it sputtered 3 or 4 times and died. Spin, spin, spin, spin and finally it fired and off we go,all the while wonderin why it did this. Was right outa the blue that this happened. Had the car for 2 weeks and the owner before us, we know had it for a couple months and got it from his brother that rebuilt the frontend. It was in a slight crash. 2 new fenders and a nose piece. All the while it has been running just fine. Anyways-it starts back up and off we go, but, as I gave it more fuel the engine would sputter and try to die again, BUT, (notice the big but there) if I eased into the pedal and not just mashed it quickly as is normal, it would pick up and run fine. Bear with me now as I'm just gettin started here.
I look down at the gas gauge and its sittin just under the 1/4 mark and I think maybe its runnin kinda low and needs a drink so I pull into a gas station. As I pull in and try to get positioned(Is wifes car and I forgot which side the fillers on) it tries to die again but I catch it by pumpin the pedal some. So I cut the engine off(BIG MISTAKE) and get out and put in 10. Get back in and it just turns and turns and turns but wont start. Not so funny thing is, it doesnt SEEM to have much compression as it turns rather easy but doesnt start.
I push, it rolls easily outa the way and I start checkin-Can hear the fuel pump back there pumpin up, has fire from the coil to the dist., has fire to the plugs, crack open a fuel line and has fuel pressure. We even hit it with ether and it would NOT start or even act like it wanted to. Check to see if maybe it had jumped time and nope, not as I can tell sittin in the parkin lot with a bare minimum of tools(screwdriver, pliers, flashlight and a few sockets) I had on hand. But wait: Heres the real KICKER.
I call my sister in law and she gets there to take us home to get my truck and I'm sittin there and notice that if I just let her spin, spin, spin, it wont fire, but if I just bump the key it acts like it wants to fire up. So I sit there and bump, bump, bump a few times and the dern thing fires up and I am able to get it to run(acts flooded but that may be from the ether). It runs good if you ease the pedal down(this is in park mind you) but if I tried to rev it up quickly it would spit and sputter. I could actually go from idle to 4500 and it wouldnt spit a bit until I tried to rev it up fast. When it would spit and sputter it kick out black smoke from the tail pipe. I got out and was goin to tell my wife to ride with her sis but to follow me in case and this guy that had been tryin to help me got in and let the engine die on him. Never did get it to refire after that. Got my truck and car trailer and went got it and brought it home. Still spins like crazy and still acts like no compression. Got the battery chargin cause it was gettin weak.
SO- DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY ADVICE AS TO WHAT GIVES WITH THIS THING?
I have tried my best to describe what the symptoms are and what I know its doin(spark from coil and from dist to plugs and seems to be in time as best I could tell at the time) and what its not doin (startin like its supposed to) so maybe someone here could better diagnose what goin on.
I really do appreciate any help and advice I can get with this thing.

Morley
10-21-2007, 04:08 AM
If it wouldn't start with ether (starter fluid) then you have a spark problem, even if the spark plug looks like it is firing.
I would start off with new cap, rotor and wires. If the problem persists, take the ignition module out and have it tested at an auto parts store. If it checks bad or questionable, replace only with an AC Delco unit. Another possibility is very bad gas, add a couple bottles of STP gas treatment and shake the car around to get it mixed up good.
I am assuming that your check engine light works and was not on when it was running? If the light was on, find out what code was stored and post it back here and we'll go from there.

BigEd1
10-21-2007, 11:43 AM
OK-Yes the ses was on-code 32-which is egr valve. Car was running just fine and then, blump, it falls down. Has a new cap and wires as well as plugs BUT, once again notice the big but, The whole top part of the dist. below the rotor is quite RUSTY. What gets me is that it was running like that then it quit. Should I try removin and cleaning the dist. first as well as having the module checked? The fire SEEMS to be quite strong and is blue at the plugs. All plugs are firing. The thing is the little of no compression thing.

Morley
10-21-2007, 02:39 PM
If you're sure it has little to no compression..do a compression check. If it fails that you'll need to replace the engine or rebuild it. But I stand by what I said about not starting on ether. If you have good spark and spray ether in the inlet it WILL fire off, it may not stay running but it will run long enough to burn off the ether.
The primary coil down in the distributor may also be bad and at that point you may as well rebuild the distributor, since you have to disassemble it to get the coil changed out.

BigEd1
10-21-2007, 10:18 PM
OK, heres what I've found out today-The module is GOOD. The stator needs to be replaced even if its not bad because of the corrosion. It looks like it has been wet or under water. Anyway, its really badly corroded and the sealing wrap around its all but gone. Gonna call the salvage yard in the mornin and see what about a used dist. and install the new stator and old module(seein as its still good) and then go from there.
I got to thinkin bout what you said about the ether and it still not firin off AT ALL and thats right, it cant be firing correctly . The coil SEEMS to be good and I know now the module is so that more or less leaves the stator, RIGHT?
I got the #1 piston up on tdc and the rotor points to the plugwire#1 so I am certain it hasnt jumped time. So now I gotta wait on the stator and go from there unless I am missing something...?

Morley
10-22-2007, 02:18 AM
DO NOT just slap that module in the new distributor or it will burn out. There is a thermal grease that goes between the module and the distributor (metal to metal contact area). This IS NOT dielectric grease, it is a special thermal grease. If you can't get any of it at the parts store, go to Radio Shack and get some heatsink compound (like goes between a CPU and heat sink) and use that. And use some assembly lube on the distributor gear on that other distributor...or even better would be to use your old gear on it. The gear is going to have a wear pattern on it and a matching one on the cam's gear, using a different gear could cause the cam gear and/or distributor gear to wear faster.
The "other thing" you might be missing is to look into that EGR code...if the EGR valve is stuck open it can contribute to the wanting to stall out at idle.

BigEd1
10-22-2007, 11:30 AM
Gotcha on the thermal grease. Thanx. Checked the egr for open and stuck, wasnt. Cleaned it the best I could. Gave it a little lubrication. Car still wouldnt act like it wanted to start. This was yesterday. I really suspect the stator and if you could see the shape it was in you would also. Was bad. Now I'm searching for a replacement dist. as this ones so rusty none of the parts could be removed to be replaced. Have found they arent easy to find in a salvage yard and are somewhat expensive-to me anyway-to just go buy a new one. Reman. was around 150 bucks and then you have to add the stator. Funny though, the reluctor(?) comes with it. I did find that any 85-89 and 92-95 2.8 or 3.1 with a DIST. will fit it but they are few and far between. But the last place I called said he was 90% sure he had one, but its rainin here and a little too wet to go crawl around under the hood in a salvage yard to see. Gonna have to wait til tomorrow-not supposed to rain as much tomorrow. Only time will tell.

BigEd1
10-23-2007, 10:53 AM
What a relief! First off I wanna thank you for your help Morley. There were several things that had gone wrong, all at once too. I think the first and worst was the coil. Almost didnt catch it. My son was in the shop with me and said, "Hey Dad, where this fire comin from?" I looked where he pointed and had him turn the switch for me and lo and behold the coil was cracked. The guy that had the car before evidently knew about it cause he had smeared some silicone over it to keep moisture out. I dont know how it even ran as good as it did. Anyway, a dist., module, and a coil later and she fired right up. My wifes really glad to have her car back. (So am I, LOL).

Morley
10-24-2007, 02:34 AM
When it rains it pours...

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