my turbo'd spitfire
UncleBob
10-18-2007, 01:14 AM
Continuing my long tradition of turbo projects for the few that are interested in this kind of crazy stuff, I have a new project!
I'm a bit of a bike-oriented type of guy, and this is no different.
I'm not just turbo'ing a car....nothing so mundane as that! No sir.....I'm going to install a motorcycle engine in a car, and THEN turbo it :D
The car in question, a sweet little deal I ran into, a 1974 Triumph Spitfire. Why? Well, its light, it grandfathers the emission laws in my state, and its got some cool-factor (IMO). I also got it for a steal, which helped the decision
I picked up a ZRX1100 motor (of course) to shove in there, and plan on making around 300 ponies when I'm done. This should make it a decently fun ride. Stock weight for these cars is around 1700 pounds, but thats with an all-iron engine/tranny, so I should shed about 150 pounds of weight with this modification, making for a pretty decent power to weight ratio
why a ZRX1100 motor? Well, not only am I very intimate with them, especially when turbo's are involved.....they are simply cheap as hell to pick up. I got a motor for it for barely more than the cost of shipping it. They have a lot of potential since they are basically a side draft version of a zX11. I could have make a lot more power out of a busa engine or ZX14 engine, but it would have been a lot more expensive. Another nice advantage of the ZRX/ZX11 engines, they have a huge aftermarket support, including being used for sprint/legend cars, which is similar aspects to what I'm doing here
These cars are known for having pretty good handling, and I won't be removing that aspect
Just to answer some pre-assumed questions: it will use a jack-shaft-like setup to change the gearing (which was needed because if I drove it directly off the output shaft, it would top out around 110mph), and run off the stock rearend/driveshaft. It will have reverse, with a cute little setup I'm devising. I will probably eventually update/change out the rear end setup for a more modern, better handling, posi-capable such as out of a miata....although that will take a bit of fabrication due to the frame configuration. But thats long down the road.
I'll add updates later.
Talk amongst yourselves :D
Pic of the car:
http://www.unclebobsturbos.com/Ts/spitfire/spit-before3.jpg
after removing the engine and tranny, and cleaning up the engine compartment....a lower engine case half out of a ZRX for mocking purposes, roughly where the engine will end up:
http://www.unclebobsturbos.com/Ts/spitfire/spit-enginemock1.jpg
I'm a bit of a bike-oriented type of guy, and this is no different.
I'm not just turbo'ing a car....nothing so mundane as that! No sir.....I'm going to install a motorcycle engine in a car, and THEN turbo it :D
The car in question, a sweet little deal I ran into, a 1974 Triumph Spitfire. Why? Well, its light, it grandfathers the emission laws in my state, and its got some cool-factor (IMO). I also got it for a steal, which helped the decision
I picked up a ZRX1100 motor (of course) to shove in there, and plan on making around 300 ponies when I'm done. This should make it a decently fun ride. Stock weight for these cars is around 1700 pounds, but thats with an all-iron engine/tranny, so I should shed about 150 pounds of weight with this modification, making for a pretty decent power to weight ratio
why a ZRX1100 motor? Well, not only am I very intimate with them, especially when turbo's are involved.....they are simply cheap as hell to pick up. I got a motor for it for barely more than the cost of shipping it. They have a lot of potential since they are basically a side draft version of a zX11. I could have make a lot more power out of a busa engine or ZX14 engine, but it would have been a lot more expensive. Another nice advantage of the ZRX/ZX11 engines, they have a huge aftermarket support, including being used for sprint/legend cars, which is similar aspects to what I'm doing here
These cars are known for having pretty good handling, and I won't be removing that aspect
Just to answer some pre-assumed questions: it will use a jack-shaft-like setup to change the gearing (which was needed because if I drove it directly off the output shaft, it would top out around 110mph), and run off the stock rearend/driveshaft. It will have reverse, with a cute little setup I'm devising. I will probably eventually update/change out the rear end setup for a more modern, better handling, posi-capable such as out of a miata....although that will take a bit of fabrication due to the frame configuration. But thats long down the road.
I'll add updates later.
Talk amongst yourselves :D
Pic of the car:
http://www.unclebobsturbos.com/Ts/spitfire/spit-before3.jpg
after removing the engine and tranny, and cleaning up the engine compartment....a lower engine case half out of a ZRX for mocking purposes, roughly where the engine will end up:
http://www.unclebobsturbos.com/Ts/spitfire/spit-enginemock1.jpg
curtis73
10-18-2007, 03:01 AM
How are you going to prevent facial cramps from the perma-smile you'll get at 10,000 rpms ? :D
Greenblurr93
10-18-2007, 08:08 AM
surgery... cool project.. good luck (psst... fix that rust!)
antzbongo
10-18-2007, 07:50 PM
mate thats bloody awesome! we need more people like you. everyone always does same old shit thats been done 10000 times before. great stuff!!!!
KiwiBacon
10-18-2007, 08:31 PM
Very interesting. They're a very cool little car and could do with an engine update.
Do you think you'll have any cooling issues?
Do you think you'll have any cooling issues?
UncleBob
10-18-2007, 09:40 PM
Do you think you'll have any cooling issues?
not when I get done with it....I wont be using the stock radiator
not when I get done with it....I wont be using the stock radiator
UncleBob
10-18-2007, 09:41 PM
How are you going to prevent facial cramps from the perma-smile you'll get at 10,000 rpms ? :D
11K RPM's, and yes, I'll have trouble with that :D
11K RPM's, and yes, I'll have trouble with that :D
Moppie
10-18-2007, 10:40 PM
HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAA!!!!!
Good luck making it go around corners with 300hp driving through that abortion of a back end!
And please, get rid of those fugly rubber bumpers.
Good luck making it go around corners with 300hp driving through that abortion of a back end!
And please, get rid of those fugly rubber bumpers.
UncleBob
10-18-2007, 10:46 PM
HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAA!!!!!
Good luck making it go around corners with 300hp driving through that abortion of a back end!
And please, get rid of those fugly rubber bumpers.
incase you didn't read the entire post:
"I will probably eventually update/change out the rear end setup for a more modern, better handling, posi-capable such as out of a miata..."
and yes, I plan on ditching those
Good luck making it go around corners with 300hp driving through that abortion of a back end!
And please, get rid of those fugly rubber bumpers.
incase you didn't read the entire post:
"I will probably eventually update/change out the rear end setup for a more modern, better handling, posi-capable such as out of a miata..."
and yes, I plan on ditching those
Moppie
10-19-2007, 12:22 AM
incase you didn't read the entire post:
"I will probably eventually update/change out the rear end setup for a more modern, better handling, posi-capable such as out of a miata..."
and yes, I plan on ditching those
Oh I read it, but I also used to own a kit car that used a Triumph Herald Chassis, which is exactly the same as the Spitfire Chassis.
It had couldn't handle 100hp from a 2TGE, I know it won't handle 300 :D
There are ways of improving the Swing Axle design, the later Spitfires all had an extra linkage in the bottom, making a sort of double wishbone set up, where the axle formed the upper link.
The same set up was used on the MKII GT6.
It works quite well at stopping the swing arms carrying into negative camber just when you don't want them to, but it puts a lot of stress, on the already stressed rubber CV's in the axles (which are becoming harder to get new).
There is however lots of room for a Datsun/Nissan/Subaru 180B/180sx/200sx/240sx/WRX rear diff, which gives all sorts of options for LCD set ups (fluid, mechanical, and adjustable). Its a Fuji Heavy industries unit, and is VERY strong.
The Transverse Leaf in the rear suspension can also be tightened up quite easily, but you need to match it with the right shocks or it suffers sever axle tramp.
I had worked out a plan to fit the rear suspension from a Mazda Familia BF AWD Turbo, and use a Datsun 180B LSD.
"I will probably eventually update/change out the rear end setup for a more modern, better handling, posi-capable such as out of a miata..."
and yes, I plan on ditching those
Oh I read it, but I also used to own a kit car that used a Triumph Herald Chassis, which is exactly the same as the Spitfire Chassis.
It had couldn't handle 100hp from a 2TGE, I know it won't handle 300 :D
There are ways of improving the Swing Axle design, the later Spitfires all had an extra linkage in the bottom, making a sort of double wishbone set up, where the axle formed the upper link.
The same set up was used on the MKII GT6.
It works quite well at stopping the swing arms carrying into negative camber just when you don't want them to, but it puts a lot of stress, on the already stressed rubber CV's in the axles (which are becoming harder to get new).
There is however lots of room for a Datsun/Nissan/Subaru 180B/180sx/200sx/240sx/WRX rear diff, which gives all sorts of options for LCD set ups (fluid, mechanical, and adjustable). Its a Fuji Heavy industries unit, and is VERY strong.
The Transverse Leaf in the rear suspension can also be tightened up quite easily, but you need to match it with the right shocks or it suffers sever axle tramp.
I had worked out a plan to fit the rear suspension from a Mazda Familia BF AWD Turbo, and use a Datsun 180B LSD.
UncleBob
10-19-2007, 12:25 AM
Oh I read it, but I also used to own a kit car that used a Triumph Herald Chassis, which is exactly the same as the Spitfire Chassis.
It had couldn't handle 100hp from a 2TGE, I know it won't handle 300 :D
LSD.
exactly why I'm not keeping the stock rear end setup
You say you read it, yet then you go on about how bad the stock rear end is, when I specifically said, I'm not going to use the stock rear end.
I have looked into the WRX rear end, among others. So far I like the miata setup best (don't know if you have that in your country) because of its total width, and height-friendliness....and its aftermarket support.
The WRX is a little more comlicated, taller, and wider. Not quite as friendly to this application
Either way, this will require a bit of fabrication to work, with the under-slung X frame setup that the spitfire uses
It had couldn't handle 100hp from a 2TGE, I know it won't handle 300 :D
LSD.
exactly why I'm not keeping the stock rear end setup
You say you read it, yet then you go on about how bad the stock rear end is, when I specifically said, I'm not going to use the stock rear end.
I have looked into the WRX rear end, among others. So far I like the miata setup best (don't know if you have that in your country) because of its total width, and height-friendliness....and its aftermarket support.
The WRX is a little more comlicated, taller, and wider. Not quite as friendly to this application
Either way, this will require a bit of fabrication to work, with the under-slung X frame setup that the spitfire uses
Moppie
10-19-2007, 12:30 AM
Not finished yet, just had to check on dinner.
The Front suspension however is FANTASTIC!
It formed the basis of the orginal Lotus 7, and the uprights with upper ball joint was used in a number of different Lotus cars, most importantly all the 4 cylinder Esprit models.
Its a very simple design, and has lots of room to add different brake set ups, wheel hubs, etc.
Common conversions are Ford Transit van from discs on Cortina hubs (probably hard to get those bits in the states) and BMW 2002 discs over the triumph Hubs with after market calipers on a custom made brackets.
You can also retrofit the brakes from the large 4dr Toledo, and better yet the 2500TC. Although both sold in very small numbers in the US.
The Chassis itself can also be a weak point.
On the early Lynx Twincam Kit cars (of which 50 were made here in NZ) they used the standard chassis, which bows out after the rear engine mount.
On my car, the rails were seperated, turned over, and welded back onto the cross members.
This means they bowed in, and were apprently a lot more rigid.
You don't want the body popping off when you open it up :)
The Front suspension however is FANTASTIC!
It formed the basis of the orginal Lotus 7, and the uprights with upper ball joint was used in a number of different Lotus cars, most importantly all the 4 cylinder Esprit models.
Its a very simple design, and has lots of room to add different brake set ups, wheel hubs, etc.
Common conversions are Ford Transit van from discs on Cortina hubs (probably hard to get those bits in the states) and BMW 2002 discs over the triumph Hubs with after market calipers on a custom made brackets.
You can also retrofit the brakes from the large 4dr Toledo, and better yet the 2500TC. Although both sold in very small numbers in the US.
The Chassis itself can also be a weak point.
On the early Lynx Twincam Kit cars (of which 50 were made here in NZ) they used the standard chassis, which bows out after the rear engine mount.
On my car, the rails were seperated, turned over, and welded back onto the cross members.
This means they bowed in, and were apprently a lot more rigid.
You don't want the body popping off when you open it up :)
Moppie
10-19-2007, 12:35 AM
exactly why I'm not keeping the stock rear end setup
You say you read it, yet then you go on about how bad the stock rear end is, when I specifically said, I'm not going to use the stock rear end.
I have looked into the WRX rear end, among others. So far I like the miata setup best (don't know if you have that in your country) because of its total width, and height-friendliness....and its aftermarket support.
The WRX is a little more comlicated, taller, and wider. Not quite as friendly to this application
Either way, this will require a bit of fabrication to work, with the under-slung X frame setup that the spitfire uses
Hey, I'm not digging at ya, I know you will make it work.
I just got the feeling replacing the rear end was going to happen sometime after the car got its new motor and was back on the road :)
We do get lots of MX5's here. They were very popular in Japan.
Its another popular donor for rear ends, I actualy looked into it, but the diff head is quite large compared to the Fuji unit, and was a lot more expensive here.
The Fuji unit is very slim, but a little long. Its found in all the cars I mentioned, and can be easily adapted to fit different axles.
So you use it with other suspension set ups, or even design your own useing others parts.
This is why I wanted to go with the Mazda set up, as it was a easy to alter multi link arrangement.
I could also make it work with the transverse leaf spring, which was important as there was no where to mount normal springs or struts on the kit car.
You say you read it, yet then you go on about how bad the stock rear end is, when I specifically said, I'm not going to use the stock rear end.
I have looked into the WRX rear end, among others. So far I like the miata setup best (don't know if you have that in your country) because of its total width, and height-friendliness....and its aftermarket support.
The WRX is a little more comlicated, taller, and wider. Not quite as friendly to this application
Either way, this will require a bit of fabrication to work, with the under-slung X frame setup that the spitfire uses
Hey, I'm not digging at ya, I know you will make it work.
I just got the feeling replacing the rear end was going to happen sometime after the car got its new motor and was back on the road :)
We do get lots of MX5's here. They were very popular in Japan.
Its another popular donor for rear ends, I actualy looked into it, but the diff head is quite large compared to the Fuji unit, and was a lot more expensive here.
The Fuji unit is very slim, but a little long. Its found in all the cars I mentioned, and can be easily adapted to fit different axles.
So you use it with other suspension set ups, or even design your own useing others parts.
This is why I wanted to go with the Mazda set up, as it was a easy to alter multi link arrangement.
I could also make it work with the transverse leaf spring, which was important as there was no where to mount normal springs or struts on the kit car.
Moppie
10-19-2007, 12:37 AM
crap, now there is toasted sandwhich filling all over the bench.
Ah, a cold beer will help :)
Ah, a cold beer will help :)
UncleBob
10-19-2007, 12:39 AM
I will get the car rolling first with the stock rearend. But it will only be making 110hp and 65ft/lb's. Far from mind-blowing power output. I won't turbo it until I change out the rear end. I'm using the naturally asperated engine as a testing bed for my different concepts, working out the details. Then I'll try playing with real power.
Moppie
10-19-2007, 12:44 AM
I will get the car rolling first with the stock rearend. But it will only be making 120hp and 65ft/lb's. Far from mind-blowing power output. I won't turbo it until I change out the rear end. I'm using the naturally asperated engine as a testing bed for my different concepts, working out the details. Then I'll try playing with real power.
Fair enough, but, I managed to blow the diff in mine with only 100hp and about 100ft/lb.
And this was in a much lighter car, it weighed 720kg with me in it, and a full tank of gas.
When I pulled the car off the road, pulled the body off, and took the diff out, I thought I should have a look inside.
Teeth were sitting in the housing when I took it off, and both the ring gear and the pinion were stripped completely of teeth in places.
Fair enough, but, I managed to blow the diff in mine with only 100hp and about 100ft/lb.
And this was in a much lighter car, it weighed 720kg with me in it, and a full tank of gas.
When I pulled the car off the road, pulled the body off, and took the diff out, I thought I should have a look inside.
Teeth were sitting in the housing when I took it off, and both the ring gear and the pinion were stripped completely of teeth in places.
UncleBob
10-19-2007, 12:46 AM
Fair enough, but, I managed to blow the diff in mine with only 100hp and about 100ft/lb.
And this was in a much lighter car, it weighed 720kg with me in it, and a full tank of gas.
When I pulled the car off the road, pulled the body off, and took the diff out, I thought I should have a look inside.
Teeth were sitting in the housing when I took it off, and both the ring gear and the pinion were stripped completely of teeth in places.
the ft/lbs is the big difference here. You were playing with a 40% more torquie motor than I am
and this car will weigh about the same. The motor/tranny combo will only weigh 200 pounds (90 kilo's or so) compared to the all iron engine tranny that was stock.
I'll have to do something about the front springs....they are too much for my setup and have no sag at all with the engine/tranny installed.....
And this was in a much lighter car, it weighed 720kg with me in it, and a full tank of gas.
When I pulled the car off the road, pulled the body off, and took the diff out, I thought I should have a look inside.
Teeth were sitting in the housing when I took it off, and both the ring gear and the pinion were stripped completely of teeth in places.
the ft/lbs is the big difference here. You were playing with a 40% more torquie motor than I am
and this car will weigh about the same. The motor/tranny combo will only weigh 200 pounds (90 kilo's or so) compared to the all iron engine tranny that was stock.
I'll have to do something about the front springs....they are too much for my setup and have no sag at all with the engine/tranny installed.....
Moppie
10-19-2007, 12:52 AM
I'll have to do something about the front springs....they are too much for my setup and have no sag at all with the engine/tranny installed.....
Theres a slightly mad Esprit owner around here somewhere, get him to look the other way and pinch his front springs and shocks..........
Theres a slightly mad Esprit owner around here somewhere, get him to look the other way and pinch his front springs and shocks..........
UncleBob
04-13-2008, 08:49 PM
been a while since I posted on this. Been busy with other stuff.
Made a decent amount of progress over the last couple weeks. Got the machining done for the drive train bits, pulled the body off the car and started getting serious about getting this puppy road-worthy
Some pics:
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff3.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff4.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff5.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff6.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-drivemock1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-drivemock2.jpg
Made a decent amount of progress over the last couple weeks. Got the machining done for the drive train bits, pulled the body off the car and started getting serious about getting this puppy road-worthy
Some pics:
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff2.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff3.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff4.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff5.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-bodyoff6.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-drivemock1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~ryan.langford/pics/spit/spit-drivemock2.jpg
Moppie
04-14-2008, 02:07 AM
Looking good!
That motors a nice fit.
If your really keen, you can cut the chassis rails aft of the front body mounts, and forward of the diff mount, and turn them over the other way so they bow out, not in.
Makes the chassis stiffer, which helps with the handling.
That motors a nice fit.
If your really keen, you can cut the chassis rails aft of the front body mounts, and forward of the diff mount, and turn them over the other way so they bow out, not in.
Makes the chassis stiffer, which helps with the handling.
UncleBob
04-14-2008, 02:30 AM
I didn't show pics of it, but I had to trim and box up (overkill) the right "strut tower" to make room for the engine/cutch cover. I'll be adding a strut brace also, that will also be the turbo brace
there was also some selective modifying of the tranny tunnel/fire wall to make room for the engine head and drive train, although all of that is pretty minor, since I'll be making a new tranny tunnel cover either way to whatever size/shape I like
I'm not too worried about the front frame, since it will have a lot of bracing along with the strut bracing and bracing for the drive train. The rear area will be completely reworked with the rear end swap, and....knowing me....I'll over do it
there was also some selective modifying of the tranny tunnel/fire wall to make room for the engine head and drive train, although all of that is pretty minor, since I'll be making a new tranny tunnel cover either way to whatever size/shape I like
I'm not too worried about the front frame, since it will have a lot of bracing along with the strut bracing and bracing for the drive train. The rear area will be completely reworked with the rear end swap, and....knowing me....I'll over do it
Moppie
04-14-2008, 04:20 AM
So you will use the motorbike gear box with a chain drive to the drive shaft?
How to operate the gear change?
The front suspension is already pretty strong, and very well designed.
Colin chapman lifted it straight out of the Herald (same chassis) and dropped into the Lotus 7, and with only slight changes into the Lotus Esprit.
For the back end, I'm pretty sure there is room to get a double wishbone set up in there as well, and keep the transverse leaf.
I was going to use Datsun/Subaru diff head, with multi link arms and axles from a 4WD DOHC Turbo Mazda 323 read end.
The Fuji Industries diff used in the Nissan's and Subaru's is much lower profile than the MX5, although as you mentioned earlier, possibly not as common in your part of the world, and much harder to find with LSD.
How to operate the gear change?
The front suspension is already pretty strong, and very well designed.
Colin chapman lifted it straight out of the Herald (same chassis) and dropped into the Lotus 7, and with only slight changes into the Lotus Esprit.
For the back end, I'm pretty sure there is room to get a double wishbone set up in there as well, and keep the transverse leaf.
I was going to use Datsun/Subaru diff head, with multi link arms and axles from a 4WD DOHC Turbo Mazda 323 read end.
The Fuji Industries diff used in the Nissan's and Subaru's is much lower profile than the MX5, although as you mentioned earlier, possibly not as common in your part of the world, and much harder to find with LSD.
UncleBob
04-14-2008, 08:49 PM
just gonna run some linkage between a stick and the shift shaft. Slap the stick forward, you shift up, slap the stick back, you shift down
Moppie
04-15-2008, 01:32 AM
I thought so, won't be many spitfires with sequential boxes in them :D
I can't wait to see what you do to the rear end either.
I can't wait to see what you do to the rear end either.
UncleBob
04-15-2008, 02:56 AM
they sell an aftermarket air shifter that shifts up or down with a couple bottons....could put paddles on the wheel just like a super car
but they want $800 for that option. Very low on the list....I can use a stick for now :D
will only be a 5 speed....I could have gotten a 6 speed, but honestly, I think its overkill
rear end will probably be a while. Well....depends how long the stock rear lasts
but they want $800 for that option. Very low on the list....I can use a stick for now :D
will only be a 5 speed....I could have gotten a 6 speed, but honestly, I think its overkill
rear end will probably be a while. Well....depends how long the stock rear lasts
Moppie
04-15-2008, 03:29 AM
...depends how long the stock rear lasts
Been there, broken one of them :smokin:
Even the standard herald motor can destroy that diff.
I wish I still had mine, I could show some photos of the inside.
I'm sure you could rig your own paddle shift.
Been there, broken one of them :smokin:
Even the standard herald motor can destroy that diff.
I wish I still had mine, I could show some photos of the inside.
I'm sure you could rig your own paddle shift.
driftflow
04-15-2008, 10:17 AM
that is completely off the hook dawg. I've always wanted to know how to put motorcycle engine in cars... My friend emptied out his smart car and put a busa engine in there. It is dirty as hell.
Moppie
04-16-2008, 12:19 AM
I never believed I would ever see the words: "off the hook dawg", "Busa" and "Smart Car" in the same sentence.
Greenblurr93
04-16-2008, 08:32 AM
I also think he took what he saw on youtube and is calling the guy "his friend" when he doesnt actually know him...
Cuz when i was hanging out with my buddy Tom Brady the other day we had a good laugh at that post..
Cuz when i was hanging out with my buddy Tom Brady the other day we had a good laugh at that post..
Reed
04-16-2008, 09:08 PM
I'm not sure if this applies to this thread, but I was wondering why, when doing this extensive of a modification to a car, one wouldn't convert the suspension to a push/pull rod inboard shock system. I realize this would require quite a bit of fabrication (especially for suspension mounts), but from what i understand, this ype of suspension is superior to that of a strut tower type (please excuse my poor terminology) in that one can make the suspension progressive as more force is applied to the wheel. I am interested in and planning to make a car from scratch at some point in my life and am just trying to better understand some of the finer points of suspension geometry.
UncleBob
04-16-2008, 11:23 PM
I'm not sure if this applies to this thread, but I was wondering why, when doing this extensive of a modification to a car, one wouldn't convert the suspension to a push/pull rod inboard shock system. I realize this would require quite a bit of fabrication (especially for suspension mounts), but from what i understand, this ype of suspension is superior to that of a strut tower type (please excuse my poor terminology) in that one can make the suspension progressive as more force is applied to the wheel. I am interested in and planning to make a car from scratch at some point in my life and am just trying to better understand some of the finer points of suspension geometry.
I think I understand your question.....
to start off with. This (as of now) isn't a very extensive swap. All I'm doing is swapping engine and tranny and leaving everything else stock. Far from exotic
I will probably eventually play with the suspension, and it will only be in reaction to other issues
I personally am not looking to make the best handling car. I want it to be decent, but I'm not looking to win races. So added effort for something that I'll never use isn't high on my list
its all about application
I think I understand your question.....
to start off with. This (as of now) isn't a very extensive swap. All I'm doing is swapping engine and tranny and leaving everything else stock. Far from exotic
I will probably eventually play with the suspension, and it will only be in reaction to other issues
I personally am not looking to make the best handling car. I want it to be decent, but I'm not looking to win races. So added effort for something that I'll never use isn't high on my list
its all about application
KiwiBacon
04-16-2008, 11:59 PM
I'm not sure if this applies to this thread, but I was wondering why, when doing this extensive of a modification to a car, one wouldn't convert the suspension to a push/pull rod inboard shock system. I realize this would require quite a bit of fabrication (especially for suspension mounts), but from what i understand, this ype of suspension is superior to that of a strut tower type (please excuse my poor terminology) in that one can make the suspension progressive as more force is applied to the wheel. I am interested in and planning to make a car from scratch at some point in my life and am just trying to better understand some of the finer points of suspension geometry.
I understand what you're saying and if you were starting from scratch it'd be worth considering.
But otherwise it's a huge amount of work for the potential gain. Adding progression to the spring rates can be acheived pretty easily (progressive wound springs or progressive bumpstops) but rising rate linkages have the added attraction of keeping damper rates in line with the spring rates.
I understand what you're saying and if you were starting from scratch it'd be worth considering.
But otherwise it's a huge amount of work for the potential gain. Adding progression to the spring rates can be acheived pretty easily (progressive wound springs or progressive bumpstops) but rising rate linkages have the added attraction of keeping damper rates in line with the spring rates.
UncleBob
04-17-2008, 12:07 AM
keep in mind, I'm coming from bike land, but progressive springs have been an aftermarket option for years. Its not the springs that are important, its the valving for rebound and compression. You want THAT to be progressive
serious suspension tuners go with single rate springs.
serious suspension tuners go with single rate springs.
driftflow
04-20-2008, 08:34 AM
Man why u assuming stuff? I currently live in Lebanon where smart cars are everywhere, my aunts husbands nephew whom is a rich ass did the same thing man, and no im not a 12 year old in front a comnputer trying to grab attention, im juss sayin the thing i hate most is when i get flamed by people who don't really have their facts straight. And the last thing i wanna do is get a mod to have grudges against me especially when im new to a forum, so im sorry if i said anything displeasing to you.
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