changed Manual Transmission fluid

I took the Xterra in for the 30K service recently. They changed out the manual transmission fluid as part of the service.

The night of the service, I noticed that there was a fluid leaking from the area of the transmission (or maybe the transfer case) As far as I can tell, that fluid is water. It looks like water, and it feels like water - no I didn't taste it)

When I got in the X the next morning, I had trouble shifting into 2nd gear. In fact, I couldn't get in it at all. Maybe it was cold and something wasn't right.

I just got out and drove around, and it didn't have any problems. The shifting was still pretty "knotchy", but I was able to do everything. The transfer case seems to be working fine.

It feels like the syncho is off. I am also having trouble shifting into 1st gear. It will only allow me into first gear on a dead stop. I can't even shift into first if I am rolling slightly.

I am taking it into the dealer as soon as I get a chance - its pretty obvious that they did something to cause this. It worked fine before they got to it.

Before I bring it in, does anyone have any theories as to what could be my problem?
~~~~~~~~~~``
update:

I took it into the dealer this morning. On the way to the dealer, I was experiencing the same "its hard to shift" problem. Oh course, when I got there and went for a test drive with the mechanic - the problem had cleared up. We talked about it and this is what he told me:

The oil that the dealer puts in (penzoil) is different than what the factory puts in. Its slightly thinner. The dealer doesn't have access to the "good stuff" that the factory uses. This happens on all the cars with manual tranys. He said that my problem eventually just goes away. It helps to let the engine warm up before driving, to give the oil a chance to do its job. (my problem is much worse in the mornings, and improves as it gets warmer)

I didn't have a problem the rest of the morning on my way to work (once the engine warmed up) - so I guess he was correct.

This all still sounds kinda fishy to me. Was the Guy BSing me?

Kindof sounds like the problems ChuckH had when he put Redline in his tranny. You could do a search, or maybe he'll come across this thread (he visits pretty often).

What's with a dealer not being able to put in the same fluid as Nissan? :confused:

Gear oils I was able to find, but have not used yet. Our club is trying to locate currently.

Quaker State GL-4 75W-90

and

Noco Gear Oil GLX 75w-90 GL-4

Also from Voy (I'm assuming this is KaybeeJay's post there)

75W85 fluid by Castrol called Syntorq.

This link confirms it's only available in 16 or 55 gallon drums. (Good to be part of a 4x4 club if this is the only quantity you can buy.) :)
http://www.silcodistributing.com/castrol_products.asp

I posted this question on another board, and got some pretty good replies from others who had similar experiences. Just an FYI for the people at N4W, in case this happens to you. It looks like Nissan has some weird design spec for their manual trany oils and the dealers are all idiots and don't know. Also the stores don't carry the "Correct" oil, so anyone out there who wants to change their manual tranny oil better watch out.

Read about it Here. (http://www.xterraownersclub.com/cgi-local/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=45;t=001211)

Oh, and nope, I didn't post to the "voy" board. On XOC, there was another person who had a similar problem to me - so maybe it was him. ChuckH has been a great help, as have you Schuldwiller. Thanks. The kind folks at N4W has helped as well.

Called GI Joes and they can order the Quaker State oil. Doesn't help people not in Washington or Oregon though.

How is 80W90 GL4 a "weird design spec" anyway? The GL4 part is not unusual for manual transmissions of any make. The 80W90 part might seem odd since most aftermarket stuff seems to be 75W90.

Brent

Originally posted by OffroadX
How is 80W90 GL4 a "weird design spec" anyway? The GL4 part is not unusual for manual transmissions of any make. The 80W90 part might seem odd since most aftermarket stuff seems to be 75W90.

Brent

Ok, so I'm trying to find "wierd design spec" and 80W90 anywhere in this thread, and can't find it. You mention that most aftermarket stuff is 75w90, but only Quaker State and one obscure company make it (after searching for it). So what was your point? :confused:

I think Brent got something backwards! Isn't he an automatic guy anyway? :finger: :p

Yeah, finding GL-4 80W-90 is not a problem at all...everybody makes it and everybody sells it!

GL-4 75W-90, on the other hand, is quite a pain to get hold of. Even rare in Synthetics.

80W-90 is fine to use in a warmer climate but anywhere it drops below 50 degrees it will probably be too thick for good shifting.

Guess I was thinking more along the gear oil weights (which are GL5) but with manual transmissions in mind.

Brent

I spent an hour on the phone today trying to find the Quaker State oil on the east coast with no luck. The distribution center in Hicksville, NY will sell a case (12 quarts) of 75W90 but it's synthetic and they won't ship, pick up only. The Syracuse, NY distribution center hooked me up with a shop upstate but when I called, the guy said he won't deal with QS anymore because their prices are crazy. So I gave up and just ordered some Royal Purple from xterraparts.

Originally posted by silverxglider
I spent an hour on the phone today trying to find the Quaker State oil on the east coast with no luck. The distribution center in Hicksville, NY will sell a case (12 quarts) of 75W90 but it's synthetic and they won't ship, pick up only. The Syracuse, NY distribution center hooked me up with a shop upstate but when I called, the guy said he won't deal with QS anymore because their prices are crazy. So I gave up and just ordered some Royal Purple from xterraparts.

I just put the Royal Purple in mine on Sunday and it seems pretty nice so far. My synchros are toast so getting decent shifting is a bit of an acomplishment. So, FWIW, I think the Royal Purple is worth the extra cost.

Chuck,
I trust your advice on this matter. If your evaluation of Royal Purple is favorable, then I would highly consider swapping mine. The weather is going to get colder and I plan on taking a few trips to the mountains where it gets even colder. I am having enough trouble as it is, with cold starts and its still only 40 or 50 degrees. Imagine the trouble I will be having when its drops to the 30's.

Question for those of you who have changed manual trany fluid.

When I pull the drain plug, how much of it actually drains out? How much of it do I have to refill?

I have never did a drain and fill for the transmission before, so any "step by step" help from the experts would be appreciated.

~Thanks.

4x4 manual transmission holds about 5.3 quarts of oil. All the oil will drain out easily in the manual tranny, so you will need to have the full required amount of oil on hand to refill. Best just to have 6 quarts on hand.

Make sure you get a pump of some sort with a fairly long hose. Might want to wait until you get the oil so you can see what size pump threads you need to fit on the bottle. The Royal Purple bottles have a smaller opening than say Amsoil bottles. I had a pump fitted to Amsoil containers so I had to do some container swapping. Not a big deal but you sholdn't ahve a problem finding a pump with the correct fitting and hose pickup length. There's no way to actually get the oil bottle up next to the transmission for filling so a pump is the only way it's going to get in there.

A little advice about the plugs themselves. Make sure you have a very good 1/2" drive breaker bar or a long jack handle that you can slip over the ratchet. Those plugs really stick in there even if you didn't tighten them down that tight at the last fill. Make sure you open the top fill plug first so you're sure you can get it undone. It would suck to get the bottom one off and drain the fluid only to find out that the top one requires the help of the dealer or such. Still, with the proper tools you should be able to get both plugs out. I've used long jackhandles, actual jacks, whatever it takes. Try not to damage the plugs or you may never get them out. I almost blew it last time and had to order a new drain plug. The inside gets out of shape fast if you're really wrenching on it trying to get it loose. Be sure to clean off the plugs too; especially the drain plug since it's magnetic and will almost certainly have some metal shavings attached. Well maybe not yours since it was just done but you need to clean it off anyway. When you put them back in it's a good idea to put teflon tape on the threads to be sure they seal well. You can use the teflon goop too, but I find the tape MUCH easier to use and less messy. Tighten them up snug but remember you have to get them off again later! Just need to be tight enough so they don't leak.

Oh yeah, the top fill hole is your level guage. The tranny is full when the oil reaches the bottom of the fill hole.

Good luck!

Thanks Chuck,
I don't have a pump, so I think I will go this route:

http://nissan.sadik.net/howto/trany.htm

More how to's can be found here:
http://www.nissan4wheelers.com/howtos/howtos.html

Chuck or Silverglider,
Any reviews or updates on the Royal Purple? I am getting ready to place my order to xterraparts, and I wanted to check with you guys before I did that - to see if how it was working out for you.

(Chuck - Since you are in the Seattle area - I assume that the climate is cooler/colder than here in CA - so if its working out for your climate then it should work for mines)

Please let me know how its working out for you guys. Much appreciated.

Our club decided to go in on a 16 gallon drum of Quakerstate 75w90 gl-4 gear/tranny oil with the help of Evergreen (member here on the board). He was able to get it through a Nissan Dealership.

So PNWX should be having a big oil changing party here real soon. :alien2:

I finally got the Royal Purple in this weekend. The temp was about 8 degrees F. There was immediate improvement in shifting.

I had it done by a local mechanic because it was just too damn cold to do it myself. My dealership supposedly changed the fluid 10,000 miles ago (at 30,000 miles) with Mobil 80W90 GL5. The local guy said that it didn't look as though the drain plug had ever been removed - no wrench marks on it, and the fluid that drained looked too dark to be only 10,000 miles old.

So I don't know whether to be happy that maybe the dealer didn't change it at all (putting the wrong stuff in) or pissed that they charged me for changing it when they didn't.

Well we did the change (PNWX).

Nothing like laying on your back under the truck with rain water going up your pants leg and tranny oil going down your arm. :) One gear tooth came out of the tranny. Better than Charles, but damage nonetheless. Maybe it was a baby tooth. :rolleyes: Shifting is much improved and we have a big drum for the next change.

If you are in a club, this is the way to go.:sun:

Thanks guys for all your feedback, actually I got a nice deal on some Amsoil 75W90 from a fellow NCCXer who has some connections. I should be draining and filling in the next couple of weekends.

I may have spoken too soon. Shifting seemed easier for the first couple of trips with Royal Purple but this past week, it's even harder getting into second gear than it was before, at least until everything is warmed up.

Of course, it's been under 10 degrees F everytime I've had to go somewhere lately so maybe it's too cold even for synthetic to be smooth.

I'm at a loss...

I have an update to my problem.

It turns out that the service guys OVERFILLED my fluid and that was causing the hard shifting. I called 1-800-NISSAN-1 and made an official inquiry and the dealer looked at it again, and together they were able to solve it.

The dealer drained the surplus fluid and now the shifting has returned to "normal".

I was really impressed with 1(800) NISSAN-1. They really came thru for me on this one. (then again, the problem was induced by the dealer, so they SHOULD have come thru for me.)

Weird. The guys with the early Hardbody/Pathfinder manual transmissions have to deliberately over-fill their trannys to keep from killing them. The fill hole was moved a couple of inches higher later in production to correct the problem.

Brent

Bringing this topic back from the dead...

I've pretty much decided that 75W-85 GL-4 gear oil would be perfect for the Xterra, so I was searching for 75W-85 and ran across something interesting. Nissan specs 75W-85 GL-4 for the 350Z. The reason I find this interesting is because the 350Z is a brand new car and GL-4 is ancient oil...that's one of the reasons it's so hard to find anymore. Plus, it's even harder to find than 75W-90! I would think that Nissan would move forward at some point and change the metals in the transmissions so they can use GL-5 lubricant since it's superior to GL-4. Makes me wonder if the 350Z has the same clunky shifting as the Xterra!

In any case, I have yet to find 75W-85 gear oil here in the U.S. In my searches for 75W-90 and the 75W-85 I've noticed that they are widely available in other countries, but not here. Chevron makes it, Valvoline makes it... After thinking about it, it totally makes sense. In the U.S. something like 85% of the new cars are automatics. You go to the auto parts stores and there are 15 types and brands of ATF on the shelf and only one or two variations of gear oil. Are they trying to get the last 15% of us to convert? In contrast, I think 90% of all cars sold have manual transmissions. Their shelves are probably loaded with manual transmission gear oil and a couple containers of ATF. We're shipping all out good gear oil to Europe!

Damn the manufacturers, the oil companies, and the lazy ass Americans! :mad:

And another interesting find...

Nissan specs the 75W-90 GL-4 oil for 2000, 2001, and 2002 Xterras, but for 2003 they changed the spec. to 75W-85. Damn; and I thought I was ahead of the game but it seems they figured out before I did that 75W-85 would work better!

Now if I could jsut find the damn stuff! If not I'm just going to go with Redline MTL which is a 70W-80, but is actually closer to an 85 according to Redline. I've heard of a few people running it in the Xterra with no problems.