Spray?

I have been researching nitrous systems lately, because its a maybe for my car right now, and i was just curious if you guys could answer a couple questions, because im not sure if i believe what im reading.

-Do wet shots really take 10K miles off your motor every time you use them?
-Are dry shots safe to use with stock internals?
-Which is better, Dry or Wet?

I guess my biggest question is, "From experience, can any of you give me some info or suggestions on a nitrous setup for my car?"

Before i even think about it i will have these engine mods:
-AEM V2 Cold Air Intake
-Megan Racing header & full exhaust
-NGK Plugs & 10mm wires - Is 10mm necessary?
-Bored Throttle Body

Just curious if this is a stupid idea, or if it would be a nice add-on.

Feel free to criticise or comment, i am reallly looking for all the info i can get.

Thanks! :)

The only thing I know about nitrous is that you would need to do fuel upgrades, just as you would if you installed a turbo.

I have been researching nitrous systems lately, because its a maybe for my car right now, and i was just curious if you guys could answer a couple questions, because im not sure if i believe what im reading.

-Do wet shots really take 10K miles off your motor every time you use them?
-Are dry shots safe to use with stock internals?
-Which is better, Dry or Wet?

I guess my biggest question is, "From experience, can any of you give me some info or suggestions on a nitrous setup for my car?"

Before i even think about it i will have these engine mods:
-AEM V2 Cold Air Intake
-Megan Racing header & full exhaust
-NGK Plugs & 10mm wires - Is 10mm necessary?
-Bored Throttle Body

Just curious if this is a stupid idea, or if it would be a nice add-on.

Feel free to criticise or comment, i am reallly looking for all the info i can get.

Thanks! :)

This is more dependent on how much nitrous you use each shot. This is determined by the size of the nitrous ports you use. If you are using something moderate like a 50-75 shot, then you are taking significantly less risk than anything above that. Although you will still need to adjust your air/fuel levels so you are running richer than normal.

The difference between dry and wet is this. Dry nitrous is injected into the motor (usually via tapped holes on the intake mani) with no fuel mixed. Meaning the nitrous is mixed with fuel in the actual combustion chamber of the motor. This means that the intake manifold has no fuel flowing through it, IE it is dry.

And wet nitrous system is the exact opposite, fuel is mixed with nitrous before it reaches the combustion chamber. These systems are usually more expensive than dry systems and require more modification. IE you need another fuel source to draw fuel from to mix with the nitrous. As were with a dry shot you would only need to tap your manifold and go.

Wet shots are capable of producing more power than a dry shot, but as far as if they wear the motor faster? Again this is subject all to the way to drive you car and how much nitrous you run.

If you are seriously considering nitrous, than you should not look at anything other than a dry kit. As it would be a waste of money for you, unless you planned on doing MAJOR upgrades to your car later, and intended to keep the nitrous on as well.

There's dry, wet, and direct port.

Dry is the "safest" and "easiest". Also get the least amount of power out of it.
Wet is the middle of the 3. Slightly harder to install, slightly more powerful.
Direct Port is the hardest, most complicated, and the best.

I don't see spraying the car unless it's a full-blown race car. That would be the only time I would spray. Help spool the turbo a little quicker and shoot ya down the 1/4. But that's just me.

Unless you rebuild your motor, don't spray. Not only will it blow your motor eventually, but should something go wrong, it can cause major problems, such as fires, explosions, and stuff like that. Basically, the spray puts terrible strain on all seals, gaskets, and components. Not only that, but if you run rich, you're guaranteed to melt something like pistons or your rings. You really have to know what you're doing to install it and everything has to be perfect.

This is more dependent on how much nitrous you use each shot. This is determined by the size of the nitrous ports you use. If you are using something moderate like a 50-75 shot, then you are taking significantly less risk than anything above that. Although you will still need to adjust your air/fuel levels so you are running richer than normal.

The difference between dry and wet is this. Dry nitrous is injected into the motor (usually via tapped holes on the intake mani) with no fuel mixed. Meaning the nitrous is mixed with fuel in the actual combustion chamber of the motor. This means that the intake manifold has no fuel flowing through it, IE it is dry.

And wet nitrous system is the exact opposite, fuel is mixed with nitrous before it reaches the combustion chamber. These systems are usually more expensive than dry systems and require more modification. IE you need another fuel source to draw fuel from to mix with the nitrous. As were with a dry shot you would only need to tap your manifold and go.

Wet shots are capable of producing more power than a dry shot, but as far as if they wear the motor faster? Again this is subject all to the way to drive you car and how much nitrous you run.

If you are seriously considering nitrous, than you should not look at anything other than a dry kit. As it would be a waste of money for you, unless you planned on doing MAJOR upgrades to your car later, and intended to keep the nitrous on as well.

Yea, it would only be a 50 or 75 shot.

Alright, thanks, i would say nevermind then, lol

I always thought that wet was better for the motor since it injects fuel along with the nitrous. Start with a 35 shot and move up to a 50, you might could get away with a 75. Anything more your risking blowing a head gasket.

Alright, thanks, i would say nevermind then, lol

Well don't discount it yet. When you use nitrous responsibly and in moderation, it can be a great way to get power for cheap.

The best course of advice would be to poor over some of the NT Forums and find some info on what you can safely do on the stock bottom end.

I just looked over the 2gNT forums (God they are laid out awfully) and there is general consensus over there that you can run up to about a 50-75 shot ont he stock bottom end.

They also go on to say that the 95's can handle the 75 shot (From a dry kit) because their FPR will adjust the fuel for the nitrous. And that the 96+ NT's need to have a wet nitrous kit. I would imagine a dry kit plus an AFPR would be very similar to a wet kit for 96+. (The AFPR + nitrous would be similar to the setup my friend had with his honda with a dry shot)

No offense but I found this in about 5 seconds of looking on that board, I'm sure that they would be the best source for info on it, being that they specialize in NT's and have a whole forum section dedicated to Turbo/nitrous NT's.

I always thought that wet was better for the motor since it injects fuel along with the nitrous. Start with a 35 shot and move up to a 50, you might could get away with a 75. Anything more your risking blowing a head gasket.


A wet kit is better for you car, they are just more expensive than a dry kit.


But I also completely agree with what David said. Nitrous will most likely fuck up your motor if you abuse it. If it's something you consider doing, you absolutely have to do it right. You would have to tune your car around the nitrous and not the nitrous around you car.

Nitrous is a quick power adder, but you need to have the know-how to do it right. And if you aren't going to do it right, you are better of not doing it at all.

Nitrous is a great power adder. I think you should look into it.

I personally would not go over 50 shot on your stock motor, just to be safe. 75 would probably be ok on a wet shot.

If you go dry you are going to need some way to richen up your mixture. A fuel pressure regulator should work ok. Just turn that bitch way up, better to have too much gas than not enough.

Wet is the way to go IMO. Safe. Cause then you know you got enough gas.

Its all personal preference.

Also heres a good rule of thumb also: For every 50 shot....Your going to want to retard your timing about 3 degrees. I don't know if 420A's have distributers...but if they do, retard it.

Heres the setup we are running on my friends stock civic hatch: 50 shot dry kit with the fuel regulator turned way the hell up, and 3 degrees retarded ignition. Works well

As long as you do it right, you aint gonna blow any shit up. Just go with a resonable sized shot and make sure you got enough gas for it and you'll be fine.

There is no way to retard the timing on the 420a without megasquirt or msd ignition box. He should be fine with a 50 shot though.

Ok so let me get this strait, if i went with a 50 shot dry, it would be ok and i obviously wouldnt be stupid with it because i would hate to ruin my car, but i would probably have it profesionally installed for the simple fact that this isnt something you want to mess up. So what would i need to do fuel wise again? Im kinda lost, sorry, there was a lot of peoples suggestions clashing.

A dry kit is extremely easy to install, you could probably do it yourself. If you do a dry 50 shot I would atleast buy a fuel pressure regulator so you can turn your fuel pressure up a bit.

I think he would be better going with a wet kit. It will mix the fuel in already so he wont have to worry about anything. A dry kit is to risky IMP. A wet kit isin't that hard to install on our cars.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130336

:1: For the wet kit. If for some strange reason I ever get nitrous it will be on a direct port setup though.

Either kit would work great. IT's up to personal preference really the wet kit looks pretty easy to install. But it's not as easy as the dry kit with an AFPR.

Really since you aren't looking to make big power either kit would be perfectly fine. The Dry kit + an AFPR(you will need an AFPR With a dry kit) may be cheaper than a wet kit.

But a wet kit you wouldn't need to purchase an AFPR, and you will have to do less tuning if any at all.

I dont know about it being cheaper. Not sure how much more a wet kit it, but in order for him to run a new AFPR he would have to run a new fuel return line from the AFPR all the way to the tank. On 96+ 420a the FPR is connected to the fuel filter which is 1ft away from the tank. By the time you figure in lines and fittings to hook up the new regulator you would have even more money in it.

LOL! Silly 420a's. Also though, I am pretty sure a wet kit is more safe.

That is silly. Okay okay, I agree with Thor. Wet kit it is!

LOL! Silly 420a's. Also though, I am pretty sure a wet kit is more safe.

95s are on the firewall! So much easier.

how does refilling the nitrous work? i mean obviously you take it in and they fill it, but that stuff is a controlled substance, can you just waltz in there and pick up some laughing gas?

No, you have to go to the dark alley behind the Super 8 on the south side of town at precisely 11:27 on the second thursday of every other month. Cigarette in hand, ask him, "Hey, you got a light?" When he offers a match, say "No a flash light." He will take you to a ware house across town, there you will meet Bob, the Nitrous Pimp. You will have to tell him a funny joke, and if Bob does not see you funny, you will be kicked out and never allowed back in. If he finds your joke funny, you will have to pay for your nitrous in nickels counted one by one for three times the going rate plus a kidney or a testicle, your choice.

Yes, you should be able to go to any nitrous fill up station and get your tank filled. The stuff used in cars is not exactly dental grade and its in a much, much higher concentration IIRC, I would not recommend huffing that shit.

well i guess im not running nitrous then...i dont smoke

lol sorry

You have to find someplace that sells it. There's a performance shop close by me that sells it. Don't remember the prices. But it's findable.

Yea theres a performance shop over here that sells kits, but i never really looked into tho, i dont really know how they do buisness tho...no alleys

I believe its about $40 to fill a 10lb bottle here. Thats a little expensive if you ask me.

about how long will a 10lb bottle last? assuming you have it set low like you were talking about earlier...

It really just depends on how much you use it. You could use it in a day or it may last a month or 2. There is really not reason to spray unless your racing or just feel the need to go fast. I would say it should last a month using it occasionally.

I vaugly remember reading something awhile back about some sort of slow leak spray system, which if i can remember right, just slowly leaks nos into the engine w.o a trigger. Ever heard of it?

I dont think thats a good idea. You only need it when you want to go fast. Other than that your just wasting it.

touche

He thought my joke was funny, so im in, and i didnt even lose a testicle...lmao but ok back to buisness.

So if im going to do it i should probably stick with a wet kit, and im just not sure if this is something i want to invest in if its going to be so complicated, my goal with my RS is to make the most HP i can on stock internals and leaving it not turbo'd.

As some of you already know, my goal is to eventually find a nice gsx, and fully re-do it from bumper to bumper, and im just sick of waiting and opportunity knocked and i got a great deal on my RS after the tranny blew on my Grand AM GT, so i have it sitting in my parents shop over the winter and i am hopefully going to be able to finish it by spring.

Here is a list of the mods i am planning on doing, if anyone can give me some suggestions, or ways to improve my list that would be great. And if i have to mess with the fuel routes and flows, i just dont know if i want to get that deep into modifications with this car, mainly for the reason its an RS and that i know there is only so much power i can get out of it and for the fact that it is just a fun project i wanted to start untill i can find a nice GSX. Maybe that sounds stupid i dont know, so yea if you have any suggestions or thoughts just throw them out for me.

-Bored out TB
-New wires
-New exhaust (header back) - Megan Racing
-Racing Seats & Harnesses
-Custum trunk layout
-18 inch 5Zigen FN01R-C 's wrapped it Toyo Proxies
-Body Kit
-Inside & Underglow Neon
-Halo Headlights
-Aztellia Taillights
-New Paint Job (Probably Blue)
-Paint Valve Cover & Other Engine Parts
-Carbon Fiber Hood
-Aftermarket Fog Lights
-Strut Braces (Front & Back)
-New Shocks & Springs/lower 2 inches (Toxico)


http://a153.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/96/l_5a8f5c015991daf76da71d97314b29f0.jpg (http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=238765520&albumID=630011&imageID=2731943)

Hey i like your style...but playing asteroids with the potholes suck the big one...those 18's gonna fit after the lower??? im still rollin stockers and they BARELY clear...

p.s. white with blue underglows :-)

bleedEGLblue: Yes 18's will fit with a 2" drop. Come on guy, you can fit 20's on these cars.

Rickyrickster25: Oh and installing a wet kit isnt very hard. You could do it, or I'm sure you have friends that can help.

Around here the filling price is around 3.50 per pound. So for a 10 pound bottle, 35 bucks.

You say your looking for performance but your going to get 18" rims. Go with 17s max or your lossing power.

There is really not reason to spray unless your racing or just feel the need to go fast.

Why else would we be on these forums? I mean, I know some people join forums so they can fondle each other's balls, but 99% join because their car is fast or they want to make it fast. Just sayin... ;)

I can only speak for the turbo cars, I won't pretend that any of my experience extends to the 420As. That being said, I have had good experiences with nitrous on my EVO. I ran it for a full race season on top of a completely pegged EVO8 turbo (vac line to the WGA removed).

Dry shots shouldn't be considered unless it's a "kit" with some elaborate shitbox way to raise fuel pressure when you're on the bottle. Too risky IMO. I would personally only ru na dry kit on a standalone ECU like my AEM which can add the extra fuel through the main (or a second set of) injectors. This is a nice safe solution if you have plenty of fuel pump to support it. Wet kits run a high risk of nitrous backfires, but are much safer overall for the motor for the average guy.

All the way up to a 75 shot my motor took all of the ingition timing it did without the nitrous. The reason to cut timing back is that nitrous increase the burn rate of the mixture, meaning you need less timing to achieve peak cylinder pressure at the same crank angle as without it. In my car, this wasn't the case apparently. I ran a pegged EVO8 turbo at 42 lbs/min plus a 75 shot with 19 degree of peak timing. That's all the EVO motor and 2g DSMlink ECU combo would run off the bottle.

You definitely want to run colder, non-projected plugs. I ran BR8ES plugs. I'm convinced that they saved my motor twice when high bottle pressure leaned me out. On that note, keep an eye on bottle pressure on warmer days than it was tuned on. ;) I've made full length quartermile passes with the above mentioned conditions at 13.5:1 the whole way down the track. Yeah, non-projected plugs are the balls.

Use a robust triggering system. DSMlink as an example will turn the nitrous on above a set TPS, speed, and RPM, and turn it off above a set RPM or knock retard value. That also helped save the motor on one of the above mentioned excursions, over 2 degrees of knock and it killed the nitrous. It is now capable of doing a set timing retard too, which is nice, if it's needed.

Up here it costs me 40-45 bucks to fill a bottle. A 10 lb bottle would last me about 2-3 trips to the track with ~5 runs each before I would get nervous and fill it up. For an extra 6 tenths and 9 mph it seemed worth it to me. ;) YMMV.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, repsect the NAWS. Do it once, and do it right, or you'll regret it at some point. Use high quality components, and don't skimp on filters and gauges and solenoids and lines and anything else that can ruin your day. The fuel jets on fuel injected cars are ridiculously small, check them for blockage from time to time and run a filter. For the guys running an Aeromotive regulator, get a 6an to 4an reducer to take fuel from that unused port on the reg. ;)

The online calcs will set you up a little rich for a FI car, works out pretty well. I found that at the most I would go one jet leaner. With a NA car, it's probably better to keep it rich. I'd recomend 11:1 even on race gas.

I always encourage people to try things for themselves. I'm glad I gave nitrous a shot! (LAMO, that's sweet).