2002 Toyota Camry SE V6, shimmy/shudder under acceleration

This forum is the most knowledgable I've found, and I'm frustrated with dealing with the Toyota dealership on this issue. Please help me out with this.
My wife's Camry has started to shudder/shake under acceleration only after the engine is warmed up. I thought that maybe it was the the tires, so had them rotated/balanced, but the problem continued. I took it to a mechanic down the street, and he told me that I needed to replace all four motor mounts.
I took the car to a dealership, since it is still under an extended warranty. They gave me the vehicle back and said that they had replaced 2 bad motor mounts, and the other 2 are just weak. Well, the problem still exists exactly as before.
I took the car back in and now they're saying that they don't know what the problem is, but it could be cv joints, front axles, or transmission. They want me to pay them about $300 to do a full diagnosis, and this isn't covered by the warranty.
I still think that they should have replaced all four motor mounts, but they keep telling me that the motor mounts are not the issue. I would think that the only way to rule this out completely would be to replace all four and see what happens. I'm not a mechanic, so maybe I'm wrong. I've been dealing with this problem at the dealership for about 2 weeks now, and I just want to fix the problem. Does anyone have any idea what the problem could be (motor mounts, axles, cv joints, transmission)? Thank you for any help on this.

Vibrations and noises can be the toughest things to troubleshoot with your hands on the car, let alone from a few states over. Best guesses are the best we can give. More details may help. Does it shudder within a speed range? Have you checked for error codes? what maintenance was done prior to the first time you noticed it?

I would put a hold on the final two motor mounts. If you didn't notice any change whatsoever when the first two were changed, assuming they change the two worst, then I would think that may not be the problem. If as you say the shudder happens only after the car has warmed up I would think the axles and CV joints are good. If they were bad you would always feel the shudder.

Your problem appears to be temperature related. That sounds like the transmission or engine to me. Specifically I would suspect the torque converter. The TC transferes torque from the engine to the transmission. Beyond changing the tranny fluid (all of it) and filter, you'd have to have a shop test it. Also it could be the Engine Management System (EMS). When warming up, the engine is in the open loop mode meaning timing is limited air/fuel ratio is fixed to aid starting and speed up warm up. Once warmed up (after 3-4 minutes) it enters the closed loop mode where engine timing the air/fuel ratio is variable to meet performance demands. The check engine light is an indication of a problem in the EMS. Hold the car with your brakes and step on the gas. Can you duplicate the shudder? If yes, It points more towards an engine misfire under load than the tranny.

Thank you for the reply.
1. The car shudders only while actually moving from a stop or while coasting up to about 50 mph.

2. There are no error messages.

3. My wife said scheduled maintenance has been done since she's had the car. We've only been married for about 2 months, but I know nothing has special has been done in the last 4 months besides an oil change about 3 months ago.

4. I actually already tried holding the brake, putting it in gear and stepping on the gas. I didn't feel any shudder while doing this.

You're the first person to mention anything about the torgue converter. I'll see today what I can find out about that.

I'm still thinking that since I have two new motor mounts, and two 5 yr. old weak mounts, the engine is sitting off-balance. Since the engine is off-balance, there might be too great of an angle on the axles where they tie in, and they could be binding.

Thanks again for the reply, and any other comments/ideas are welcome. There are three mechanics so far that don't know what is wrong, and they all want to know what the problem ends up being when I get it fixed.

I'm still thinking that since I have two new motor mounts, and two 5 yr. old weak mounts, the engine is sitting off-balance. Since the engine is off-balance, there might be too great of an angle on the axles where they tie in, and they could be binding.


nope, don't think that would happen. I'm going to agree on the torque converter. Once you get to higher MPHs, the trans is in lock up, meaning not using the torque converter. Does it stop shuddering after a shift?
Accelerate through the 50 mph and see if the shudder going away corresponds to a change in rpm. If it shifts and stops shaking, try accelerating without letting it shift gears and see if it shudders. Does it shake if you do let it shift gears?

just a thought, does your car have traction control?

Yes, it does still shake when it is shifting through the gears.

Yes, it does have traction control. By the way, the car has now started shaking at high speeds also while accelerating.

By the way, the car has now started shaking at high speeds also while accelerating.

maybe i shouldn't have asked??

this is a long shot, but try turning TC off.

another ? does the rpm bounce with the shudder?

check trans oil again. if you can, drop the pan and see if there are bits of metal in it, shiny little flakes.

If you eventually start concentrating on the tranny and decide to let a tranny shop look at it, before that, change the fluid and filter. I've read posts all over the net stating it sometimes fixes a shudder. Dropping the pan only changes 1/3 rd of the fluid. The rest is trapped in the TC. You can have it flushed but, I've read this can induce other problems. You can pump it all out a disconnected cooler line. You can drain it three times driving it around between each filling.

Though you can't rule them out, no shudder with the brakes held points away from the engine and mounts.

Though it would approach the bottom of my list, another component to consider is the fuel pump or fuel system. If you can easily accelerate past 70/80 mph then put this idea back on the shelf.

OK, the car is at a different Toyota dealer's repair shop. They're saying that it is the axles, and are replacing them. I'm anxious to see if this fixes it. If not, I'll find out what I can about the TC.

By the way, the RPMs are not affected by the shudder as far as I could tell.

Thanks for the replies, and I'll let ya'll know what ends up being the issue... hopefully :banghead:

Alright.

The car has been repaired and is fully functional with no shuddering whatsoever. The repair shop didn't take the axles apart to see exactly what was causing the problem... But both axles were replaced, and the problem is solved.

Thanks to everyone for your help, you all gave me some ammunition when dealing with the service dept. so I didn't get jerked around.
:grinyes:

Good to hear your headache is gone. Still a mystery why the axles wouldn't fail when cold because they don't heat up much. Did the mechanic give any details? Thanks for the thanks.

Cars - they always throw you a surprise.

Wow, this is a new one. I'd like to know how they knew to replace the axles. Congrats on finally getting it.

I talked to the mech. today, and he told me when they got underneath it they were almost immediately able to tell the problem.

When you put resistance on the wheels, he said that you could see the axles slightly sliding in and out of the (I don't know what you call it, but where the axles tie-in to your drive mechanism). That sliding was causing the engine to shimmy side to side and that's what probably tore up the motor mounts.

Hope this helps ya'll, but he and another guy at the shop told me this was the first time they had seen this on a camry.

Cheers