why imports shouldnt be looked down upon

I recently purchased a brand new 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX. While this car is better than most ricers out there in stock trim, it too can be modified to a greater extent; How does a turbo/intercooler upgrade that ups the ante to 320+HP sound to you? not to exciting? Well maybe the fact that it will be under factory warrenty? Anybody can put some boost through their engine, but in most cases these applications arnt covered by the manufacturer and in the event you turn your engine into a 300lb paper weight your pretty much stuck with the bill. And while I havnt even gotton a chance to put this car through the paces ( im still breaking it in ) Let me tell you that the viscous slip diff. makes that AWD grab the pavment very fast, i havnt been able to do a decent burnout it just gets traction too fast, which is the main benifit of AWD. Ok Ok before all you Honda Mo. Company guys start forming a lynch mob, let me tell you i will be the 1st in line to say that all of those cars, ie: Civic's, Integra's, SE-R's, up to Supra's and RX-7's are to be feared in the street racing scene. With the exception of the Supras and the RX-7's you can get a hold of one of those cars for a dollar amount far below what i paid for this Impreza. And the aftermarket parts are too easy to find, and just because these cars start out they're "stock" life with performance specs. that just cant compare with cars like the WRX, or M3's or a domestic musclehead ( I owned a 97' Cobra Supercharged 512.7HP, a lot of vroom vroom ) doesnt mean that they will stay that way, I've seen guys running 500hp Integra's and 400hp Eclipse's! I guess What im trying to say is that anyone who likes cars can get them to go faster, handle better, look sexier, sound louder, what it all comes down to is your gonna pay the $ sometime, whether its when you buy a $30k+ car, or a $20k and under and $10k worth of bolt-ons, we all end up paying for a ride that is in effect a reflection of our personality, our way of expressing ourselfs, so I say to those of you who say a civic (or any other pocket rocket) isnt a "real" sports car, you should try to appreciate the fact that not everyone can afford to buy one, and that you obviously have never cruised in an import with more than $15k invested in it. :sun:

How can upgrading a turbo, not void your warranty?

Originally posted by kbslacker
How can upgrading a turbo, not void your warranty?
i had the TRD Supercharger on my Tacoma it didnt void the warrently but toyota fucked me on the install price. I was going to do it myself until i found out it voided my warrantly

Amen to that my man. Im tired of hearing these guys from older generations sayin "why did you do that to your car its not a sports car" or "that belongs in my chevelle" or some other old muscle car that has been on the cover of hot rod magazines for the last 25 years or more. Hello! are we bored yet?, hell yeah. I mean ill be a fan of the ford mustang till the day I die. But its time for grandpa oldsmobile and grandma ford to step aside and make way for the next breed of muscle cars. Front wheel drive baby! Ok ill admit I dont have a Honda or acura or one of those other imports. I have a 95 Chevy Cavalier, and I love it. its a quick little thing and there are PLENTY of performance bolt ons for it. I do appreciate the hondas and Mazdas but I want t be diffrent and have a domestic car to play with. Hey man those wrx's are tight rides, i love subarus. keep posting threads about your car

Originally posted by Sleepy

i had the TRD Supercharger on my Tacoma it didnt void the warrently but toyota fucked me on the install price. I was going to do it myself until i found out it voided my warrantly

But see the keyword to that is TRD Supercharger. That is a dealer item is it not? kc2thou said you could upgrade the turbo, and still not void the warranty. How is that possible? I highly doubt Subaru has a larger turbo as a dealer option.

Originally posted by kbslacker


But see the keyword to that is TRD Supercharger. That is a dealer item is it not? kc2thou said you could upgrade the turbo, and still not void the warranty. How is that possible? I highly doubt Subaru has a larger turbo as a dealer option.

i know thats why it didnt void the warranty i was just sayin maybe subaru made a upgrade but i dont know

but i didnt think the subaru tranny could handle that power i rember readin it somewere not sure though anyone else heard this

Well subaru hasnt quite yet devoloped a performance line like Toyota's TRD, but they have been kicking butt in the rally champioships, and some of that performance engineering has sneaked its way over here, granted in the U.S. we get weaker cars cause our smog laws are more strict than other countries. Ne ways back to the warrenty thing, when i bought the car there isnt an option to upgrade the turbo from subaru, rather a turbo from the dealership, but it still maintains all the regular warrentys, believe me i asked about it, i wish that i could have gotten the upgrade package, but i couldnt afford it just yet. well to all those out there with rides that arnt the norm ( chevy cavalier, for example) kept on going your own rought, cause as cool as the hondas/acuras and other cars like them are, they are pretty much every where you look, its nice to see someone with a tricked out ride that is not too common, keep it up!

Please forgive me but for the moment im going to make a quick advertiment; ... EDIT by Silver S2000: I moved the ad here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=64538#post64538). Please continue. :D

is it a ProDrive turbo in order to keep the warranty?


these posts were made a while ago, have you got the upgrade yet?

I am interested to know this as well.

Anyhoo, my 2 cents.

A Cavalier is not a muscle car. Neither is a Civic. It is not a sports car! It is not a luxury car. You can make it fast, if you want to. You cannot change the fact, however, that it is a front wheel drive economy car.

There is nothing wrong with the Cavalier, and if I owned one, I would modify the suspension for better handling, and give it better brakes too! But it is not a muscle car, and it is not a sports car.

Originally posted by Cbass
I But it is not a muscle car, and it is not a sports car.


Ok then define a sports car?
Is it an MGB? or a Lotus Espit V8?
Or is it just any car that provides and exciting and involving drive. Regardless of how fast it actual is.
I know Iv driven some cars that would run very fast times round a track, but I would by no means call them sports cars. And Iv driven some very slow cars, that simply becasuse you sat nice and low, the steering was responsive along with the engine would most certianly qualify as a sports car.

i have a wrx and let me tell you that any performance part on your car that the dealer sees is gonna void your warentee. making more boost than stock will definatly void it. and prodrive dosent make turbos. if you want to upgrade stuff and still keep the warentee just take whatever you put on it off before you go to the dealer. but if the dealer sees something that "might" cause more strain on the engine your warente will be marked void. and just my 2cents...i had always thought a sports car to be a car designed or based off of a design of a car that was made to participate in a car type sport. eg rally, GT, touring, etc.... but civics, cavilers, are not. they are econmoy cars , granted you may get them to go fast, and handle well but they are designed as ecomomy cars. oh yeah and good job on buying that wrx welcome to the comunity:D please exuse my grammar:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Cbass
I am interested to know this as well.



A Cavalier is not a muscle car. Neither is a Civic. It is not a sports car! It is not a luxury car. You can make it fast, if you want to. You cannot change the fact, however, that it is a front wheel drive economy car.


Absolutey right my man! :)

Originally posted by Cbass
I am interested to know this as well.

There is nothing wrong with the Cavalier, and if I owned one, I would modify the suspension for better handling, and give it better brakes too! But it is not a muscle car, and it is not a sports car.

But i dont think i would upgrade anything - my friend has one and its a nice car, but its still an economy car
:)

a sports car IMO is something that is focused to one purpose, to be driven quickly, providing the driver with fun, by being as communicative and nice to drive as possible. speed doesnt matter, but handling and a pure driving experience are

I think the reason people don't respect imports is because of the fact that 90% of the owners who modify their cars don't give them any serious performance upgrades. sure they're available, but does anyone actually bolt em on? take tealcav's ride for example, out of that long list of mods, only one of them is performance, new mufflers. not trying to put down your car or anything, just pointing out a fact. these cars aren't muscle or sports cars, but they can (sometimes) be very quick economy cars


btw, Im not an old timer or anything, Im only 15 and this is my opinion of imports

500 hp integras? man.. that must be kinda rare... hahahaa

ha i drive something that you would typically classify as a "sports car" its small, its suppose to only seat two people. and its RWD. even though i don't got enough grunt to push the car quick. it sure carves turns like its on rails.

I can see an -extremly- moded civic being called a sports car, I can see a prelude being called one. An S2k could be easly. But, they will never be muscle cars. A muscle car means -brute force over tech- They are known to be large v-8's My car could be called one, its a big car, with a 302 v8 A honda with a 100 cube engine, or whatever its size is, will -NOT- be a muscle car. But, a viper could be a muscle car (sorta) and a sports car.

My 302 cubes... :bandit:

you're 302ci engine is to LAUGH!...

still aint nothing like having a Big Bitch between the fenders...

no replacement for cubic inch displacement.

Speed and Fun are two things that go together like peanut butter and jelly... they cost money too. How fast you want to go? It all depends on how much you're willing to spend.

This topic is pretty touchy, I think both ways with it. True a Civic or Cavalier or anything of that matter is not a 'sports' car or 'muscle' car. But with enough money, the owner can make it close to whatever they damn well please.

Mad props to anybody who can get an Econo box to run 13's (or lower) in the Quarter.. more patience than I have to spend on a gutless wonder. Some of us cant afford the cars that we'd love to dip around in, Im fortunate to own one of my dream cars.. my Nova. I was lucky it was handed down to me through the family... albeit it was in shambles when i got it (sitting for 6 years doesnt help!) But if some guy can only afford a 95 Civic DX and puts some Rims on it.. and swaps out the motor for say like one with some TEC! Then go for it dude, some of the best times of our lives are right now with these cars. You ever listen to your parents? And how they used to street race back in the day? Sounds like fun doesnt it, you can see that look in their eyes about those good ol days of soupin up some crappy Jalopy with some buddies.

Its all fun for us, enjoy while we can. I'll never stop, Im just a big kid at heart.. just my toys got really cool!

So people no matter what you drive, dip it like its got no momma!

From the Astro Vans to the Zamboni's... keep cruisin.
(sorry for the lengthy post)

mrcvette is right ... I've said it once and I'll say it again, if you rice drivers are out to build a sleeper with your econo-car, then stick with the program! dont spend all of your money on worthless ugly shit like mile high wings and gay ass altezas. that defeats the purpose of a sleeper...trying to create the image of a fast car and then half the time not even being fast... thats just the opposite.

oh and kc2, you talk about these kids not being able to afford real sports cars? I've seen some pretty pricey civics out there not to mention all the money they dump into them, why not buy a dsm like an awd eclipse or talon for around 3 or 4 grand and actually have a quick car?

i saw a guy somewhere on the internet with a civic that runs 12s as a daily driver, thats pretty good, but i nearly crapped myself when i found out how much money he had in that car. $50,000! and most of it was from the useless crap that the riceboys always buy.

That must be the most expensive Civic on the planet.

What is funny to see is a bunch of kids talking shit on how badass there little Honda's and how well they run, but if someone challenges them with a car with more then 6 cylinders, they get scared and shut up quick.

there is one thing better than cubic inches.. cubic money :)

True, but after a basic point, cubic inches will get you further than cubic money...

Think of the most you can put into an engine, EFI, turbos, forged everything, high octane fuel, and put it in a 2.0 liter engine. Put the same stuff on an 8.0 liter engine, see where it gets you!

Originally posted by Cbass
True, but after a basic point, cubic inches will get you further than cubic money...

Think of the most you can put into an engine, EFI, turbos, forged everything, high octane fuel, and put it in a 2.0 liter engine. Put the same stuff on an 8.0 liter engine, see where it gets you!


Down the track as fast as that 2.0 does.

Imports and domestics are great in their own way. Domestics/Muscle cars are like raw looks and power, and imports have more refined looks and power. It's much harder to get HP out of a 4 cyl. than an 8 cyl. That's why I like 4 cyl. more than 8 cyl., I like the challenge in squeezing every last bit of hp out of a 4 cyl. It's even harder being an import fan when all of your friends are v8 freaks, and you're constantly being insulted because you'd rather have a CRX than a Dodge Charger (Last month I was gonna buy a Dodge Charger with 440 big block, but instead I decided to drop $5,000 into the CRX)

(Last month I was gonna buy a Dodge Charger with 440 big block, but instead I decided to drop $5,000 into the CRX)

and did your v8 freak friends give you a good swift kick in the ass??

as far as the Sports Car subject matter goes:
Any car can be taken into the sports car category with enough suspension and powertrain mods. Like Marc-OS said certain cars just have the advantage of get ting there with less work. Some people (like me), would rather just buy a car that's already there and make minor improvements. Others enjoy the challenge of rebuilding and taking their cars to the next level. As far as I'm concerned a cars classification by the fed. gov. means little. It's all about what you want your car to do and how much you are willing to spend.

as far as the Muscle Car classification goes;
I'm gonna have to say that that term is reserved for 1960-70 American Cars.

I say go for the looks and handling of the car you want. It's always possible to add more power, if there are no parts for the stock engine, you can always replace the engine.

There aren't really any performance parts for the 931 engine, aside from very rare, and very expensive Carrera GT parts. I can expect a good 250hp out of it, if I want to completely build the engine and still keep driveability.

OTHO, with my RX7 project, I can get 400hp out of it, and 500 ftlbs, weighing in about the same 2500lbs, it's obvious which one is going to be faster. However, I like the looks and handling of the 931 a lot more, it's a better car for my money.

Pontiac WS6, T/A, Firebird
Chevy Camaro, Corvette
Dodge Viper
Ford Mustang

I may have left out a few but these are what i consider muscle cars. Civics and and Cavaliers and all those rice import things are considered sport compacts.

The recent era of "muscle cars" doesn't have much to offer unlike what they had for the 60's.

And most of them are way too expensive. thats pretty much the whole list except Pontiac will be coming out with the GTO soon. And most of all the almost forgotten Buick Grand National.

Look at this compared to the 60's:

90's - New Millenium:
Firebird/Firehawk
Mustang/Cobra/Millions of other brands
Camaro
Corvette
Viper
GTO
Grand National

60's:
Charger
Challenger
Superbee
Roadrunner
Superbird
GTX
Chevelle
Corvette
Camaro
Nova
Firebird
GTO
Skylark/GS (GSX)
Torino
Mustang
Fairlane
Cobra
4-4-2 W30
Barracuda
Duster
Dart


Sucks doesn't it? Look how many cars got wiped out after the 70's. Some cars survived, but they turned into complete junk. I remember seeing a tiny, rusted up red, front wheel drive, 4 DOOR, Chevy Nova, a couple weeks ago. It must of been from the 80's late 70's, it was nothing but a box. The Oldsmobile 4-4-2 finally died out in like 84 or 86, by then that car was nothing but a couple numbers written on the side of a Cutlass.

I'm sure we all see the old folks hanging around at car shows, eyeing their old cars they grew up with. Take a look at all the Camaro's and Mustangs you see on the road today, one of these days they'll be just as rare as seeing a Chevelle or Roadrunner is today. Imagine the time when you'll be saying to yourself "woah a 89 5.0, haven't seen one of those in years" and telling your kids stories about the cars. Heh one of these days a Z06 Corvette, a Saleen Mustang, a Pontiac Firehawk, is just going to be something of the past.

Sorry Josh, but those are pony cars... the muscle cars are gone, but not forgotten...

As long as there are real men who want to drive real cars, there will always be iron.

True that CBass, true that. I miss the cars of old :(

Yeah, I think we all do...

But hey, we have all sorts of stuff we can use in old musclecars, like EFI big block strokers!

Everyone thinks old muscle cars are faster than new ones that isn't always true the 1965-70 mustang hi-po engines were 15 second cars (the boss was the exception ) 71-78 they were 16.5-17 second cars same with the camaros, firebirds, chargers, and challengers the kids back then had to modify their cars just like we do today. The 1/4 mile times for the mustang have stayed consistent in the 15 second range however the firebird and camaro are now low 14 second cars and with few mods they are 13 second cars. The newer muscle cars also get better gas mileage for the same or more power. I like the looks of older muscle cars that's why I have one, but I also love newer muscle.

ummm, the newer camaros are 13 sec. cars stock (ls-1's anyways) With a few mods they are capable of low 13's , high 12's

You also have to remember that tire technology sucked donkey balls back in the muscle car days. Take one of those carbed big block cars and give it some real traction and you'll be in the 13's pretty easily.

Weight didn't exactly help either, but its not like that couldn't be reduced.

Don't forget about traction bars to keep the car from hopping

My point was that STOCK, not gutted for weight or with better tires or traction bars or whatever, the older muscle cars weren't as fast as the newer muscle cars are today when they are stock off the lot. I'm not saying anything bad just that everyone always says how great those cars were and how today's cars don't compare, I know that they do compare and they surpass the older cars. Newer mustangs are WAY more geared toward performance than the original 65's were the suspension, brakes, handling, are far superior and more performance oriented than the older mustangs were, same with the newer camaros, firebirds, and corvettes, and MadZ it wasn't just tire technology that held those cars back most were 14.5-15 sec cars stock even with slicks they would have had a hard time getting 13's my sister's 66 hi-po mustang runs 15.2 with a 4-speed my dad's 68 camaro ran 14.8 his automatic 69 camaro was even slower, and like you said STOCK an ls1 can do 13's I read an article in 5.0 and super Ford magazine and they drag tested a brand new STOCK 02 GT mustang and their best ET was 14.2 why does everyone say that muscle is gone.

haha i remember reading a test a long time ago in motor trend or some magazine like that and they were trying to see how far weve come with technology, so they listed the 1/4 times for a bunch of 60's muscle cars, and listed the time for a stock 2001 honda oddesey minivan, and the van beat all of the musclecars except the vette, which was only like 2 tenths faster. and all the musclecars were rated at like 300-350hp, the oddesey was 140 or something like that. :hehehe:



i wanna build about a 69 camaro as a track and auto-x car instead of a drag car, and call it project "hey those arent supposed to do that!"

Still, the 60's was when driving was driving, racers were racers, and drivers were drivers. Nowadays the car pretty much does everything for you.

Your right most of the Camaros and Mustangs back then weren't all that great. The old Stingray 427 would give the new Z06 a run for its money, the Shelby Cobra would most definately give even the new Viper a fit at a drag strip.

Most 60's cars were heavy, even though they were like compact cars.
Redneck, what exactly did you do to your Nova to make it 3,000 pounds? Or did you do anything? I wouldn't know, don't know very much about the Nova.

Smallblock Novas are really light, like 3100 lbs with gas... With aluminum heads and intake manifold, also if that cowl hood is glass, you have a really lightweight package.

I'd pick a Nova over a Chevelle for dragging, the Nova is signifigantly lighter...

Same reason I'd pick a Chrysler A body over a Charger or Barracuda, just because it's 300lbs lighter.