Starter On Its Way Out???

Hi guys,

My 2002 Intrigue did something weird this morning when I started her up. It started fine, but when the engine fired up and I put my window down a bit I heard a whizzing sound coming from the front. Thinking it was the AC compressor, I turned on the AC. Nope that wasn't it. So, I figured I'd rev the engine up a little. Nope, didn't change the sound at all. So, i reversed out of the driveway and started driving down the road. About 500 feet later the sound stopped.

It was too dark out to have a look, but I had the feeling it was the starter whizzing away. When I got to work 1/2 an hour later I shut it off and started it back up. It started fine with no noise.

Have any of you had this problem at all? I am assuming it was the starter or solenoid. I am hoping it wasn't the starter switch.

I want to get this thing nipped in the bud right away. I don't want to be left stranded anywhere.

Thanks,

Hoppy

Sounds like the beginning of your secondary air pump going. Lots of discussion on this topic. When it gets bad, the "service engine soon" light will come on and the code P0410 will be stored.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=689293&highlight=secondary+air+pump

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=223259&highlight=secondary+air+pump

I am assuming that the Secondary AIR pump is located behind the drivers side headlight. Is it easy to take off? Is it under the fender or in the engine bay?

Can these pumps be taken apart and cleaned out and regreased? By the sounds of it these pumps are $250 US and up, which would equate to paying at least 30% more here in Canada at the dealership.

I have only seen so far, topics related to the Secondary AIR pump. Is there a Primary AIR pump? If so, where it it located and what does it do?

Thanks,

Hoppy

Well, I found it this afternoon just as I was going to leave work. It is under the fender. Yep, another annoying noise!

I pulled it out and carefully started to take it apart. I took it so far apart that I had everything in pieces, except for the motor. The motor would not come apart at all. I can take it apart, but the problem lies with how the lower bearing plate is held on.

Anyway, I can take the motor apart and order new bearings for it as the numbers were on the roller bearing seals, made in England is what they had on them as well as a name and number which I don't have at my disposal right at the moment.

The lower bearing I was able to pull the seal off of. I sprayed the exposed bearing with electronics cleaner and then Krown rust control multi purpose lube. I couldn't get the top bearing seal off because the pressed casing of it would not allow for removal of it. Not enough clearance. I was able to pull the centre of the seal up enough to spray the Krown lube into it.

I trialed the motor several times before putting the assembly back together. I have some special water proof grease that I repacked the lower bearing with prior to putting the seal back on. I ran the motor once again and the whole entire time the motor did not seem to free up at all for some reason. It turns ok, but it seems to spin it by hand it is a bit tougher than most motors for some reason.

Anyway, i reassembled the blower assembly and tested it again. It blew air out of the outlet very well, but it still sounded like my black and decker cordless vacuum.

I did notice some dampness inside the assemlby too, where the motor casing is located. I dried it all out and before reassembly, I greased the mounting flange that the motor mounts to the plastic casing. Just to keep the water out. The only other way water can get into there is at the electrical connection.

I reinstalled the assembly back into the car, started the engine and it came on again, every time I started the engine, probably about 4 engine starts. You could definately hear it though. I went in to wash my hands and to show my wife what sound the pump makes so she won't be too alarmed and brought her out. The pump would not come on. So, I pulled the AIR pump relay and jumped the connections to show her.

I cannot beleive how loud it is. I have regreased the bearings as such, but cannot beleive how loud it is to be honest. I think it only comes on during cold weather, but wow.

To say the least though, the design of it is quite terrible. The bottom snaps onto it. I had to use wire ties to keep the bottom on it prior to installing it again, and yes the bottom only goes on one way.

I am making an assumption that the AIR pump is installed in many W-body vehicles. I am going to go to the local wrecking yard on the weekend and have a look. I'll get them bench tested to see if they sound the same and if they do, I'll leave mine well enough alone until it gives out. My problem with it is that it is too loud.

Hoppy

Bump

Which W-body's have the AIR pumps on them? GP's, Impala's, Regal's? I need to know by Friday night

I think it is only the cars with the 3.5 L engine have the secondary air pump., the Intrigue and the Aurora.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind at the wrecking yard tomorrow morning.

Are all of these AIR pumps loud? Mine seems to make more of an air induced sound rather than a mechanical/electrical sound, but there again, it could be amplified mechanical sound because of the speed the pump runs at. The two tin fan blades are pretty light and thin in design, but man do they ever move the air.

I am not sure if my car has an abnormally loud pump on it or not as I have never owned a car that has such a system in it and don't know what the normal level of sound is from it.

I cant noticeably hear mine, of course at a cold start I have the only downside to a FWI, that god-awful hissing sound that makes it seem like something is wrong with your car.

Sorry Littlehoov, but what is a FWI?

Nevermind...Fenderwell Intake...

Littlehoov, you say you can't noticably hear yours eh? Can anyone else hear theirs? It is getting embarrasing after work every day. Security always hears me coming. The motor in mine seems to be the loud part of the AIR pump. Even when bench testing it with the motor in my hand it seemed way too loud. Unfortunately to change the bearings in it will probably destroy the motor because of how it is assembled. Does anyone have any idea if you can purchase the motor only? This AIR pump seems like the dealer will only sell the whole pump assembly.

I can hear it a little, but it just makes what I would call a normal sound of operation, I dont have any "Holy crap what is that sound?!" effect, and people cant hear me coming....at least not because of my air pump.

I just have this feeling that the dealership would absolutely rip you a new one on this part...it just has that feeling about it, if I were in your place I would visit a local junkyard(so you can confirm proper operation before purchase) or if thats not an option, try car-parts.com or Ebay and just pick up a used one.

RockAuto does list an air pump for sale, but as you can see, they dont stock it, so it might take awhile to get.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1382284,parttype,4920
Im sure you can expect to pay at least that at the dealership, probably quite a lot more. I personally wouldnt spend that much on something that only runs for about a minute or two at most and really has little mechanical impact.

I agree that since it only runs for a minute at startup, then for a second or two after 5 minutes it is not worth changing, but it it at start up that is the problem. If it did it while travelling down the highway I wouldn't mind, because who can hear it at 60 mph. It is in the parking lot where it gets embarrasing. I may go to a couple of local dealers and see what they will do about it since it is listed in my warranty manual that it is covered for 8 years here in Ontario. I know of one dealer that will not give me the time of day. I will start there first then go to the buick gm dealer who seems to try to help in any way they can. If that fails, I may try to replace the bearings in the motor. We'll see where I get and will post when I get it resolved.