what car

new to racing and looking at getting a decent car to get into racing world looking at eclips gt 3000 supra evo i was wondering what car is best for my money only have about 7k to put into a the car upfront also want some first upgrades to put towards a car that would be great thank you

For 7k up front...You might be able to pick a decent condition GST or GSX Eclipse. Maybe, and I mean BIG maybe, a 3000GT Base, but not a VR4.

Well I have a lancer, and it's not so good right now for acceleration and drag racing, it's got amazing acceleration don't get me wrong but it wouldn't compete anywhere near the bigger boys, I have a race track right near where I work and about 36 miles from where I live, and I'm DEFINITELY wanting to soup up my car and enter it, I was looking at a site for a auto shop that for 133 bucks I can change out the stock pulley's on the engine and get these one that only weigh 4 pounds a pulley, they say it will drop 100 pounds off the car easy. there's a few more things I want to do to it... but anyway regardless of that, most cars in the mitsubishi line can easily be upgraded just by dropping stock crap inside of it and under the hood, Most of these cars add safety features or other clunking parts that you really just don't need or can replace with something much lighter, a guy I know has 450 just to his wheels by replacing his driveshaft with an aluminum one.

If you got the money you can do anything.

Well I have a lancer, and it's not so good right now for acceleration and drag racing, it's got amazing acceleration don't get me wrong but it wouldn't compete anywhere near the bigger boys, I have a race track right near where I work and about 36 miles from where I live, and I'm DEFINITELY wanting to soup up my car and enter it, I was looking at a site for a auto shop that for 133 bucks I can change out the stock pulley's on the engine and get these one that only weigh 4 pounds a pulley, they say it will drop 100 pounds off the car easy. there's a few more things I want to do to it... but anyway regardless of that, most cars in the mitsubishi line can easily be upgraded just by dropping stock crap inside of it and under the hood, Most of these cars add safety features or other clunking parts that you really just don't need or can replace with something much lighter, a guy I know has 450 just to his wheels by replacing his driveshaft with an aluminum one.

If you got the money you can do anything.


I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

I'm not angry, but that comment is in regards to what? Did I provide wrong information? What I said was true, or at least that's what the automotive establishment told me, I was browsing through parts and was looking tons of weight reduction features and performance enhancements

For drag racing, why are we talking about these rice rockets? We see a fair number of them on the street, but not at the races. The "Conquest" crowd made an "appearance" at a Friday night "Street Night" recently at VMP. I guess there's a "club" for them around here. Anyway, they were all shooting their collective mouths off about V8s and what a waste of time they were. Until..... They actually started racing. All those "12 second cars" were running high 14s (some things never change, it was the same in olden times when Mustang guys would try to pick on the muscle cars). The run-of-the-mill bracket cars were all in the mid 11s or quicker. The "big dogs" were in the 8s.

For the same amount of money it takes to make a certain level of power with the turbo-4s that live a fairly short life, one can build a big block that lives for years, and has 3 times the torque.

Please, save it. I build engines. That includes Mitsis. We built one in 1997 that broke an NHRA stock class record (Q/S). That was a Conquest, too, come to think of it. It was in the 12s. There's a 3000GTVR-4 in Maryland that goes in the low 9s, but we did A LOT to get it there (3.4 litre, 11:1, two BIG turbos, massive head work, custom cams, etc.). His buddy has a Supra that also goes in the 9s. Building those monsters is NOT trivial. THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. We've also managed a couple of championships in "mini stock" at the local redneck races, with an '83 Challenger (Mitsi). My point is, if you want a street car, and you like the rice, go for it! But don't expect to be competitive with the big V8s at the track, no matter what you've read or your friends tell you. The laws of physics still apply... (The ONLY thing that beats cubic inches is "cubic money", and if cubic money is applied to cubic inches, it's out of reach...)

Consider, as an "entry level" race car, an "already built" (rolling) G-body and get a mild small block. Take little steps. After a year or two, you'll be wanting the big block and more speed... And remember, safety first! Don't cut any corners on the REALLY important stuff.

FWIW

Jim

Mr. DragonLord3688, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I'm not angry, but that comment is in regards to what? Did I provide wrong information? What I said was true, or at least that's what the automotive establishment told me, I was browsing through parts and was looking tons of weight reduction features and performance enhancements

Well, lets break it down.

I was looking at a site for a auto shop that for 133 bucks I can change out the stock pulley's on the engine and get these one that only weigh 4 pounds a pulley, they say it will drop 100 pounds off the car easy.

How many pullies do you think you have in their? Ten? Twenty? Assuming your four banger is set up similarly to most, I think you have a crankshaft pulley, a water pump pulley, and an alternator pulley. Tell me...if the three of them wiegh four pounds, that is 12 pounds. That means your stock pulleys would each have to weigh about 37 pounds each to make it out to 112 pounds so that you can shead off 100 pounds. Trust me, stock pulleys don't weigh 37 pounds a piece, or I'm a hell of a lot stronger than I thought.

Most of what I've seen has the majority of aftermarket under drivers yank about 60% of the stock wieght. Four is sixty percent of 6. So, looks like dropping a hundred pounds is out of the question.

but anyway regardless of that, most cars in the mitsubishi line can easily be upgraded just by dropping stock crap inside of it and under the hood, Most of these cars add safety features or other clunking parts that you really just don't need or can replace with something much lighter

Ok, so air bags? ABS systems? What are you suggesting we drop off your car? I mean, I can take a whole shit ton of weight off your car by just getting rid of "stock crap", but it'll look like you sent it to the SCC Technical Assistance Program.

a guy I know has 450 just to his wheels by replacing his driveshaft with an aluminum one.


In what car? I wont even go into the thought of adding horsepower by reducing weight...

The "big dogs" were in the 8s.
And I'm assuming these "big dogs" are gutted with massive slicks and a drag set up auto like a TH400?

(The ONLY thing that beats cubic inches is "cubic money", and if cubic money is applied to cubic inches, it's out of reach...)

No replacement for displacement...except turbos, tuning, and technology.

Well I have a lancer, and it's not so good right now for acceleration and drag racing, it's got amazing acceleration don't get me wrong


I stopped reading after that part....

I'm sure there was a ton of other crap in the post after it, but my brain refused to read more

I stopped reading after that part....

I'm sure there was a ton of other crap in the post after it, but my brain refused to read more

It was quite painful, be glad you didn't. I guess I had to take one for the team here.

Cassiesman,

Yes, you are correct. That's what a drag car has. A "race" car NEVER drives on the street. If it does, it's a STREET car that races. The question was in regard to a drag car, not a street car. All the quicker Toyota Supras I've seen had TH400 in them, too.

And turbos and blowers DO make the little engines perform much better, still lacking one key ingredient... TORQUE! Horsepower sells engines. Torque moves cars. What are we trying to do here? What happens when you take a 350 Chevy (for example) and put a blower on IT? Wanna talk about 540s and 505s? A little realism is called for here.

The truth is, I don't CARE what engine is used. They're ALL "air pumps". The modifications that make a small engine perform, will have similar effects on a big one, to a greater degree. It's "proportional". A NOPI Toyota 3 lr. V6 (for example) is capable of over 1,100 HP when using a blower (turbo or mechanical, take your pick), and methanol for fuel. A 350 at the same level of tune will easily make 1,800. The math just isn't there. Of course, there's always nitro...(:- Yes, my name is Jim, and I AM a nitroholic... 500 CID (8.2 lr.), 8,THOUSAND horsepower...

Have you seen the NHRA version of NOPI? They call is "sport compact FWD". The cars are GM Eco-Tech 2.4 lr. engines with turbos. They go in the high 6s over 200. Japs aren't the only ones that can make a good 4-cylinder. And ask why Quad-4 and Iron Duke aren't "legal" in NOPI.

What all this boils down to, is each and every car "fits" in a "class". SOME cars are capable of competing at a higher level than their design would indicate. Most run as they should, based on size, weight and equipment. Racing sanctioning bodies have many years experience "classing" the cars. To expect a 4-cylinder, 2.4 lr. turboed FWD car, weighing about 2,800 lbs. to be a match for a V8, 8 lr. 3,200 lb. car, purpose-built for drag racing, simply isn't realistic.

We have a customer in Williamsburg, with a '69 Firebird. The car weighs 3,650 lbs. with driver. It has a 461 (7.5 lr.) Pontiac V8 with aftermarket heads and a roller. It idles at 800 RPM (in gear) with 13" of vacuum. It gets 14 MPG, and goes 11.40@120 in the 1/4 mile with 3.55 rear axle ratio. He drives it about 2,000 miles a month. I have yet to see any 4-cylinder powered car capable of ALL that under one hood. Some might be quicker, but they won't "live" in a street environment. I know this to be true, having built many, and a friend and former coworker has built the quickest "normally aspirated" FWD Honda in the country (NOPI record, he says). It goes in the high 8s. It costs about $8,500 to build it, and it needs built after about 20 runs. At 15:1 compression, MONSTER ports and valves (relatively speaking) and a cam set that "fidgets", rather than "idles", it might live 2 miles on the street...

All that being said, this is why we have so many choices. I don't fault one for choosing an import, I just don't understand the logic. But for a drag RACE car, especially an "entry level" car, a V8 and a good chassis are better than high-tech turbo engines and FWD. Maintainence is minimal, parts are MUCH less expensive, and they're physically stronger, able to endure more thrashing. Once the owner has some real "seat time" in a race car, they are better equipped to choose which direction they want to go.

PAX

Jim

Cassiesman,

Yes, you are correct. That's what a drag car has. A "race" car NEVER drives on the street. If it does, it's a STREET car that races. The question was in regard to a drag car, not a street car. All the quicker Toyota Supras I've seen had TH400 in them, too.

Talk to Ryan Woon (Supra) and Garth Weaver (Viper)...well...who ever built Garth Weaver's car. 8 and 7 second 1/4s, respectively. My understanding is that Woon made his 8.46 on ET Streets. Both with a good ol clutch actuated DIY Cog Swaper. Doesn't matter if its a drag car, a race car, a strip car, a go kart, whatever. All that matters is who crosses the line first.

I've seen some 8 second Supras before. I've seen two 7 second ones. Viper? Who cares? If you can't beat up on folks with a purpose-built 10 cylinder engine, you need a new game. Besides, at the cost, it doesn't surprise me that I have NEVER seen a Viper at a drag strip, except in the parking lot during an event. Really rare stuff, there, Viper.

You should be at VMP when "The Gear Jammers" tour comes around. A couple dozen cars, ALL with manual transmissions. ALL in in the low 8s, high 7s. Most are Mustangs, believe it or not (I "hate" those things...). One local guy that tours, has a "Cougar" (the Mazda body) with a 408 Ford in it, going 7.40s at over 190 MPH. Another is a "Fox body", but smallblock Chevy-powered. Those cars are VERY good for traction.

Personally, I far prefer a manual trans. When I was a youngster, the average guy couldn't afford a $2,000 "stall" converter (yup, they cost THAT MUCH in the early '70s), so most of us ran a 4-speed. For a street car, the manual is absolutely the best choice. A manual car has a "mechanical coupling" to the road, where an auto doesn't. Manual cars certainly handle better due to the ability to "steer" the car with power.

I'm not sure how we got off on this tangent, but it's okay. Perhaps my comment about TH400 was misunderstood. For a "pure" drag car, especially a high-horsepower or high-torque engine in a relatively heavy car, TH400 is the best, hands down. TH400 enjoys a unique power "flow", unlike any other automatic. Most autos must "apply and release" components to accomplish "shifts". TH400 must only "apply", no release of any components necessary. In lighter cars, PowerGlide seems to be more popular these days. Plenty tough, and with some aftermarket gearing, a good combination.

I commented on it because my customer with the Supra, had destroyed about 5 of the BW autos that came in the cars. TH400 cured his issue.

Jim

Well, I must agree that for a first car import aint the way to go. I'm not bashing imports they can be made to run fast times...however they also cost a crap load of money to do it. A friend of mine has a honda hatch that dyno's over 700 hp and 450 tq ( dont believe me look at the dyno sheet blueridgemotorsports.com) but motor, turbos, electronics etc etc etc I have an 04 mustang RACE car that runs 4.40's @ 170 +/- mph in the 1/8 and I dont have 23K in the whole car and those times are naturally aspirated ( not turbo, not blown)

Well, I must agree that for a first car import aint the way to go. I'm not bashing imports they can be made to run fast times...however they also cost a crap load of money to do it. A friend of mine has a honda hatch that dyno's over 700 hp and 450 tq ( dont believe me look at the dyno sheet blueridgemotorsports.com) but motor, turbos, electronics etc etc etc I have an 04 mustang RACE car that runs 4.55s @ 167 +/- mph in the 1/8 and I dont have 23K in the whole car and those times are naturally aspirated ( not turbo, not blown)