1.8L DOHC no-start, please help!

Hey everyone..

Looks like I will get a better response in the Escort forum then the Protege forum so here goes.

Mazda 1.8L DOHC (as seen in the LX-E and GT models) will not start. Recent upper rad hose blow up caused it to run like a bag. SO far I have done, plugs, wires, swapped VAF, checked timing, compression and everything looks good. It was running rough after rad hose blew.. now it won't start at all.

Any ideas will help ASAP!:banghead:

So what DOES it do when trying to start? Does it crank? Does it sputter at all as if trying to start? Does it crank at normal speed?
Did this happen following some sort of maintenance?
If plugs and wires are known to be good and timing is correct, look for a fuel problem.... start by checking the fuel cutoff switch if equipped.

it cranks over but no sputter.. no nothing. It is getting proper fuel. This all happened after the upper radhose blew causing the engine to overheat (temp gauge waaay up there). After the hose was replaced it ran rough.. but ran. It was drivable but got to a point where I pulled over it was that bad.. it sounded like a Boxer engine and had no power when trying to accelerate. I then started checking plugs/wires.. replaced wires and plugs now it doesn't start at all.. I do not know what happened.

Compression check showed 150-160psi across all 4 cylinders which is mid-range and understandable for a 300,000+km engine.

The fuel delivery works fine.. and all injectors are spraying.. i know this because the other VAF went and caused the injectors to spray continuously and dumping fuel into the cylinders that's why I thought that WAS the problem.. apparently not.

and here is why it doesn't make sense to me.. the firing order is 1-3-4-2 and it doesn't fire.. if I switch it to 1-4-3-2 it starts and idles.. really badly mind you but it still tells me that it has ignition, spark and fuel.

Sounds like your timing is still off.

I know you said you checked the timing, but that information makes me think the timing is off.
New plugs... are you sure the gap is correct on them? Maybe one of them is not working right.
I would go back and recheck the things that have already been checked... visually verify spark at the plugs and check the gap, make sure plug wires are secure and making good contact, and one more check of the timing making sure the belt is not loose or has excessive play.

ok I will recheck the timing.. it must have skipped a tooth. I have checked for spark at the plugs.. they are ok.. have also gapped them to spec. Timing belt is my next test.. it must be off somewhere..somehow.

so.. the cam gears lineup with the timing plate i haven't checked the crank yet but if the belt skipped wouldn't the cam gears not line up?

You should make sure to put the car at TDC, then check the cam gears against the plate. might have slipped on the crank end, not the cam end.

Just throwing some what-if's out there:

if it got overheated enough, with the aluminum head and iron block, it's possible that some coolant got into the combustion chambers through the head gasket, that could've done something, since liquid doesn't compress like gas does hydrolock or some such, just long enough to make the belt spin on the pulley...

Or, it could've allowed some coolant into the oiling system, which is really not good on bearings and such. I'd change your oil, and check to see what it looks like coming out, to make sure there's no coolant in it.

Pull a spark plug and see what they look like, too, it can't hurt.

--sarge

The fact that it runs (roughly) when you change the firing order suggests timing problems. It seems that one of the cylinders is not firing. The cylinders are numbered 1-4 from left to right... make sure you have them connected properly at the coil pack too.

ok guys thanks for the help.. the timing belt DID skip a tooth after I aligned everything with the crank pulley off.. so I went out picked up a new timing belt.. took the old one off. I had everything marked to line it up properly so I put the new belt on.. had the crank at TDC and the gears both lined up. i then put everything back on and guess what... still NOTHING. What a kick in the nuts.. I tried moving the distributer while starting.. some popping out the exhaust but no turning over.

I reset the computer just to be sure.. and rechecked all plugs wires.. coil etc. I rechecked the timing marks and they line up.. so what gives?

:(

Hmm... how did you make sure you were at TDC?

Have you checked on the crank sensor? If it is unplugged the car won't start.

The fuel cutoff button is pushed down?

Could be the harmonic balancer separated from the crank pulley.

Very true... that would cause the crank sensor to lose the signal... however if the timing was just checked properly that should have become evident.

He mentioned the distributor... I wonder where that distributor is pointed when the timing marks on the crank and cam are lined up... possibly not seated right.

the crank pulley was in good shape when I took it off.. i cleaned all inside the timing belt cover.. and made sure everything was correct. As I said while trying to start I turned the distributer and some popping/small backfiring was more evident out of the exhaust but nothing that remotely like it was trying to start.

Im going to try swapping in the old plugs.. you never know, a defective one may be in there.. one looked kinda dodgy to me so i will try that. Any other ideas I welcome ..

if you already verified spark then switching plugs should make no difference.

How did you set the engine at TDC when checking the timing? Where was the distributor positioned when you did this?

The only other thing I can think of is if you have something wrong with ignition wiring. You said you verified spark and fuel.... all that really makes sense is timing, Especially since you got it to run when switching the firing order. I would stick to investigating the timing problem...

same result...

couple of things in my brain now.

-- there is no crank sensor on the 1.8L engine, unless you've got a 96EGT, with the OBDII system, and even then I'm not sure. Since it's got an actual distributor, and is not a DIS system, the distributor is signalling the ECU when to trip the igniter.

-- you had the crank pulley off, you had no issues with the keyway in the snout, correct?

--did you remove the distributor from the head at all? the drive for it is a small oblong end of the shaft, that sits in the end of the exhaust camshaft. I'd just undo the 2 12mm bolts, pull it out, and make sure it's good. In fact, it's easy enough to pull the valve cover, I'd check just to make sure that your cam isn't snapped somewhere down the line, so only barely turning the distributor when there's enough friction. Not a very likely occurrence, but super easy to check. just a few 10mm acorn-head bolts....

--doublecheck the electrical connections on the distributor, and on the igniter, and the coil wire. I've seen them come loose a couple times. I even forgot to plug in the VAF (Vane Air Flow) sensor once. started up, then died immediately.

--did you pull off the cap, and check the rotor? it's VERY possible that the cap and rotor might need to be replaced

--sarge

i had the valvecover off when setting the timing. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary but I didn't really look closely at the cams. I will check the end of the distributer.

When I was setting the timing the distributer was in the factory position.. left bolt down, right bolt up. Should I have taken the dizzy right off when setting the timing on the cams?

oh and also.. it is doing the exact same thing like I didn't even touch the timing.. change firing order it starts.. like wtf!?.. did it skip a tooth again already?. The keyway on the crank was fine..

ever think the worst possible thing? if the radiator hose busted and it over heated, could your head have warped and would that cause it to run rough? just a thought im not sure. happened to my friends honda.

Still sounds like your timing is off, from the way it acts I think the spark plugs are firing right as the last of the gas is leaving the cylinders on its way out the exhaust valves.

Pull the valve cover off and rotate the engine until the valves for the #1 cylinder are both closed, if you are rotating it in the correct direction you should see the INTAKE valve open and close, then see the EXHAUST valve open (and close).

Right at the point where the intake valve is closed should be your Top Dead Center, check your timing marks on the timing gears and make sure the distributor rotor is pointing to the #1 spark plus wire. If everything is way off you have it 180 out (backwards), keep rotating until everything lines up.

Once you have everything back together try to start it, you will have to adjust the distributor back and forth a little bit until it catches and starts then check it with a timing light to get it where it should be.