Opinions wanted

So, I'm looking for some opinions. Well, just one really. Well, more than one but just on one topic.

I've limited down my list of possible next car considerably, and have four makes on it right now. They are pretty well locked in based on a number of factors, but thats not what I'm asking about.

One of the cars I'm looking heavily into is the last gen F-Body. I've found a good number in my area that are well priced, low miles (all sub 25K on the clock), and in good condition. One in particular has really caught my eye. It is a mint, and I mean damned perfect body, 35th Anny Edition Camaro Convertable, 10k miles. Heres the thing...

Its an Auto. The only car on my list of possible cars that isn't a stick is an M3, where I don't mind having an SMG. But on the rest of them, I want a stick. Now, there are plenty of low mile six speed pretty damned good condition 'Maros in my area (and I'm looking at T/As as well), but most of them are private sellers, and even though my credit is perfect, I dont think I have enough to walk into a bank and ask for 18k or so. So the question is, is an auto decent in an 2002 LS1 SS? I've driven it, and I've driven a few sticks, and the sticks just seem more fun (even though I know I'm going to encounter insane stop and go traffic). But the car is in perfect garage kept condition.

I'm torn on it, and I don't know what to do. On one hand, its a perfect condition car, with 60k miles less than KBB says should be on, priced right. On the other hand, there is a few other cars that are also screaming "BUY ME!!!!" and they all have sticks.

So what do ya'll think?

Automatics take the fun out of driving. They remove you from the driving aspect and take the feeling of the car out of your hands. While Automatics are fun to race, they get boaring when you realise it takes no skill to drive it fast all you do is push down. Automatics are great because they are always just as fast as the last time and they can take alot of abuse.

But knowing how much you enjoy a nice spirited drive, i dont think an automatic is what you want in the long run.

Put it this way, i know a kid who had a very very clean black on black Z28 camaro, automatic. He got rid of it for an older WS6 six speed with more miles on it because he said driving the automatic just wasn't any fun after the novelty of owning the car wore off. Not sayin autos are bad, they're probably best for racing in general, but for value of having fun, find a 6 speed.

If you've been driving standard for a long time imagine what it would be like to all of a sudden only have an auto. if you live in a big city w/ lots of traffic auto might be the way to go. id stay with the standard personally.

A friend of mine drove manual transmission cars for years - then two years ago he switched to an automatic. For the first year he kept saying "I miss the manual but I'll get used to the auto". Now for the past year he's been saying "I'll never get used to this auto I should have bought a manual".

Wait, why cant you walk into a bank and ask for 18k? I walked into a bank and asked for 26k :lol:

Well how much are you looking to spend if you walk into a dealership and such? Personally I would get the M3, it just suits you much better, plus your a BMW guy. I know a number of dealers over here that we insure that have m3's for sale around the 25-30K pricing which for example if it were me or some friend of mine going to buy the car i would get another 5k+ knocked off the pricing. But I don't know if you would be willing to make a trip to miami for the car.

here are a few M3's from a dealer we insure

1st M3 (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=219938986&dealer_id=611861&car_year=2003&model=M3&num_records=75&make2=&start_year=2000&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=50&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=BMW&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceASC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=33155&advanced=y&end_year=2008&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=&cardist=19)

2nd M3, this one is convertable (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=217271622&dealer_id=611861&car_year=2002&model=M3&num_records=75&make2=&start_year=2000&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=50&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&make=BMW&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceASC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=33155&advanced=y&end_year=2008&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=&cardist=19)


they just get more expensive after that.

go to capital one auto finance. they don't care how old the car is your applying the loan for.

I'm really not looking that hard for M3s. There are a ton of low milage good priced ones in my area if I want to go private seller, and plenty of damn near perfect examples if I go talk to the dealership I used to work at, or use some contacts out in Houston. And I can figure out how I plan on buying it when it comes time for that. Most of the cars I'm looking at are dealerships and I can work a trade for my car.

Right now, I want to know opinons on buying an Auto equiped LS1, 10k miles, 35th Anny SS.

I agree with the rest of the board here. Driving stick is just more fun than an auto. The car sounds nice and all but I imagine you'll miss having 3 pedals to work with. However I completely understand that your commute in sto and go traffic may sway you toward getting the auto but the rest of the time you'll want the control of the stick more than the ease of the auto.

The only time I imagine myself buying an automatic is if (when) I get an SUV to handle the snow in winter or if (when) I have some money to buy a car I use only for luxury/cruising (7 series, E-Class, A8 etc)

I agree with the others about financing. Before you settle for an auto, check out the banks. Last year when I was looking for a new car, I figured I wanted private party (before I found a good deal at a dealership) and was approved for $20k at 5.95% no problem with the first place I went. I was 23 at the time.

So far, thanks for the advice...but one thing...

I've never owned a stick, lol. I keep seeing this "you'll miss the stick." I've actually just gotten good at driving a stick now after working at the BMW dealership. Which is a good thing, as I find my serlf comfortable with both.

The one reason I find myself leaning towards a stick is the idea that I'm gonna keep it mostly a DD with possibly a few bolt ons. I'm not looking to make it some race car...yet (once I get a company car...then we'll look into big blocks with spray, lol). Thats one factor I've figured in with all my searches, and one of the reasons why an M3 is the lowest car on the list. If I was planning on running a good shot of spray on some slicks and full bolts on with a cam...then yeah, I'd get an auto, NQA.

But keep the opinons flowing.

Ive had a bad experience with autos, my diamante my auto started slipping, my dads 97 Grand Prix the auto started slipping and it wouldnt go into 4th at all, my celica the gears in the auto burned out which resulted in a speeding ticket for "reckless driving" (Long story) and alot of huge bill to fix the tranny and pay the lawyer. ever since then I never want to own another auto. Easier to fix and such.

how should i say this...

once you buy a manual and actualy own it, its a whole different driving experence everyday. if you want to open it up, go for it. if you want to shift and keep good gas milage, go for it. you cant quite do that in an auto, since it picks your shifting points for you.

who knows if you want to drop the clutch on a turn and driftoso it. i personally cant get used to my auto sentra. im never happy with it. sometiomes it'll drive just fine, just how i like it. other times i'l have to turn O/D off to keep it from becoming sluggish. sometimes i have to manually shift the gears since it'll want to go from 1-3-4 aka 'gas saving mode aka i want to go slow aka you should be patient modes. i ususally have to turn o/d off in the rain, since i like it to stay in 3rd, since i get good traction in 3rd for wet turns.

auto and manual may not make that big of a difference in tx, but it does here in the snow.

as far as I'm concerned Autos suck on several fronts...

1) they're higher maintainence
2) fuel economy will never be as good as a stick
3) it takes that much control out of your driving experience

I learned driving on a stick and any carI buy will preferably be a stick, I dont see why most of the german manufacturers (BMW, Benz, Audi, etc...) dont promote stick transmissions... I know BMW has a few, but benz... oh my god!!!

:2cents:

go to capital one auto finance. they don't care how old the car is your applying the loan for.

I checked them out, and its good they don't care about age of the car your buying is. Its not good that they are wanting no less than 9% APR for a Private Party car.

Do you have any public credit unions around you? You should be able to get into the 6.X%s or maybe even high 5s right now.

get a dsm and call it a day, and if you get an auto. well... we'll just let the 4door have at you.

Dude, if I get a Mistu four door...

Its gonna have the 4G63 stock with Vortex Generators, a six speed, and the ironing board spoiler.

in seattle traffic..i would rather have auto than a stick. i absolutely hate driving a stick in traffic!
its that serious

as far as I'm concerned Autos suck on several fronts...

2) fuel economy will never be as good as a stick





I know a car that i can argue that, my rx-8 the fuel economy is worse on the Manual, but that's due to the manual revving higher and having more power than the auto :lol:

I know a car that i can argue that, my rx-8 the fuel economy is worse on the Manual, but that's due to the manual revving higher and having more power than the auto :lol:


You could say that about a LOT of cars. But that is like saying my 3000GT would get better MPG than young's old 3000gt which was a manual. But he has more power than me. It's not really comparable. Should be the same exact motor hooked to either a manual or auto.

Look at the specs of the 06+ civics, the manual is rated lower than the auto for fuel economy and thats with identical engines.

Also, a friend of mine once owned and crashed an 01 Camaro SS, a week after he crashed it he bought an 02 SS same color and everything but with the T56 and he said he was actually glad that his other car got totaled once he got the new SS.

You could say that about a LOT of cars. But that is like saying my 3000GT would get better MPG than young's old 3000gt which was a manual. But he has more power than me. It's not really comparable. Should be the same exact motor hooked to either a manual or auto.


But in my case it's not the exact same motor. The 04-06 rx-8 for a manual have a 6 ported motor that fuel cut is about 9300rpms and is 6 speed with 232 hp, the autos is a 4 ported motor with fuel cut around 7200rpms with 200hp. For mid 06+ the changed the autos to the 6 ported motor and increased the fuel cut to 7600 and put a 6speed auto that not produces 212 hp but is still much more fuel economical than the 6speed manual

But in my case it's not the exact same motor. The 04-06 rx-8 for a manual have a 6 ported motor that fuel cut is about 9300rpms and is 6 speed with 232 hp, the autos is a 4 ported motor with fuel cut around 7200rpms with 200hp. For mid 06+ the changed the autos to the 6 ported motor and increased the fuel cut to 7600 and put a 6speed auto that not produces 212 hp but is still much more fuel economical than the 6speed manual

I think thats what he's saying...

I think thats what he's saying...


but if you noticed what i said at the end, mazda changed the autos and put the same motor as the manuals only they cant rev as high and because of that they arent using as much fuel since they are forced to shift earlier.

but if you noticed what i said at the end, mazda changed the autos and put the same motor as the manuals only they cant rev as high and because of that they arent using as much fuel since they are forced to shift earlier.

Yep, kind of like how the 6 speed 3/s's get worse gas mileage, have a more powerful motor, and consume more gas compared to the autos.

Yep, kind of like how the 6 speed 3/s's get worse gas mileage, have a more powerful motor, and consume more gas compared to the autos.


youre not understanding at all, the reason why the rx-8 manuals are more powerful than the autos is because the autos can't reach where the peak power is and also due to the gearing. If the gearing was exactly the same and the rev limiter was in the same spot then they would probably get the same gas milage, but since the gearing is different, and where they reach peak power is different then the manual uses more gas. But technically the engines themselves have the same power, it's just the other factors that cause the auto to be more fuel efficient.

has more to do with the transmission than engine...actually it has all to do with the tranny