i cant slide my rear end out!!

hmmm....just a question, has any of you managed to slide out the rear of your car without pulling up the handbrake...

tried quite a few times and still i never go into oversteer around a corner, just understeer like a bitch! i think the next thing i will try is some left foot braking....wonder if that'll work
anyway, just like to hear how other people do it!

thanks :)

y would you want to...besides drifting of course..? i havent yet..cept on ice lol...but ebraking is fun but also not too good for your car..

I ebrake my moms accord when ever I want to swing a bitch (u-turn) all the time, its turning radius sucks, and if I dont ebrake it I usually will have to reverse.

FF = understeer. Oversteer in a FF car is pretty damn hard to do. Left foot braking helps eliminate the understeer, and might be able to get you some oversteer, but you'd probably end up slowing down a whole lot before you get any oversteer. Pretty much the only thing you can really hope for is to be in the neutral range. Maybe if it was raining, and you gutted the back of your car out, you might be able to get your rear to slide a little with some sharp turning, but it wouldn't be worth the effort.

The bloody SiR always seem to go back end out. Usually at about 120km/h+ on a bend or punched to the limit on a bend, but it gets very tailey a lot of the time when you push it to the limits. I was used to a FF going understeer. Currently it 4 wheel slides or pops the back out.

No idea why, my GL 4G never used to do it. Weight distribution or the different suspension geometry maybe?

EF9 (SiR/VTi) = Road legal weekend race car, and the suspension is tuned accordingly. The car is what you would call extremly well balanced. Meaning oversteer and understeer are conditions dependant on the drivers skill. The Chassis simply does what its told.

All other Civic models = Mommys efficant shopping cart. And the suspension is tuned accordingly. That is with lots of nice safe under steer so mommy wont get in to much trouble when she goes a little fast around the round-about.
This can of course be corrected with the right suspension tuning.

Originally posted by Marc-OS
and you gutted the back of your car out, you might be able to get your rear to slide a little

No! This is exactly the opposite of what you want to do!

Most people think that lightening the rear end of a car will make it slide easier but it's actually the exact opposite. The reason a car understeers is because the cornering G's of the front tires is less than the cornering G's of the rear tires. The ammount of cornering force the wheels have is dependant on(among other things) the ammount of weight sitting on them(weight distribution).

This is why FF cars generally tend to understeer, because they have pretty much everything sitting over the front wheels. This means that the front wheels have more load on them than the tires are capable of cornering with so therefore the front tires slide and the car understeers.

If you want your car to oversteer than you should try to even out the weight distrubution a bit. Maybe move the battery to the trunk, or you could always get a friend or two to sit in the back seats :)

Another choice would be a rear stabilizer bar. That would increase the rear of the cars roll stiffness and it would result in a bit of a loss of grip at the back. That would cause some sliding. However, since this would be a little detremental to performance I'd suggest getting a stabilizer for both the fron and rear, just make the rear one stiffer.

setanta...
you mean u can actually 4 wheel drift ur FF car??
I mean...thats quite difficult, my car doesnt seem to want to do it...no matter what i do..
do u guys mean ebraking as in left foot braking or hand brake?

oh, i just tried the left foot braking thing... just slows my car down, keeps the revs up and causes less understeer...thats about it...
i dont understanddd!....

I just want to learn how to drift, and i think that i'd get more luck if i got a FR car, like a MR2 mk1!
Very cheap and fun! :) but insurance?...hmmm

I used to work at the mall and there was a really cool S curve that i had to take every night to get out. I "drifted" it once. I used to always speed around there, but there was this reallly nice looking accord that i wanted to catch up to and look at so i was going faster than normal. I came into it with the front tires chirping but still holding, and the rear end whipped around pretty good. I quickly wound my steering the other way to correct, and i proceeded to make the last of the S with a perfect "drift" then i came out of it totally straight. It was really cool, but I don't think that's suppose to happen in FWD cars. I was thinking "I wonder if anyone saw that" but it was closing hours so there were only like 3 cars around.

Originally posted by myk888
I just want to learn how to drift, and i think that i'd get more luck if i got a FR car, like a MR2 mk1!
Very cheap and fun! :) but insurance?...hmmm
FR means Front engine, Rear wheel drive. An MR2 has a midshipped engine (behind driver, but in front of rear axles). Mid(shipped) engine Rear wheel drive 2 seater. You would call an MR2 MR, not FR. Toyota named it that way for a reason ;)

i did have some huge reply but aol bumped me like always and i dont feel like typin it again so....just get stiff in the rear and whip it, but do it in a parkin lot till you are good at it, b/c i have had 2 near totalin my car experiences b/c of that. id go inot detail, but again im too lazy to retype it all. i have a 88dx hatch w/a crx rear sway bar welded to the frame, neuspeed springs w/2 coils cut off, and 90 si shocks. works good no ebrake necessary just whip it and the butt sticks out:eek: :sun: :silly2:

moppie: Yeah, I was actually looking at the suspension of my SiR compared to a GL next to it in the workshop, the settings are a little different at the rear, not just the front. It can make things a bit exciting for sure ;)

BTW - where've you been man - long time no see :)

myk888: yeah, it will go into a brief drift, not full on as in what can be done with a S13/14/15 Silvia or GTS-t Skyline, but instead of understeering, you can break the rear end out, no handbrake needed.

the rear end of my rex def. likes to pop out... few times my rear was inches away from gaurd rail on the passenger side while my drivers front is on the yellow lines.. i had one of my friends behind me once when it was like that, hehe he was rather shocked... but it all depends on how i take the corner... i get get in to big understeer too...

I used to be able to do awesome ebrake drifting in my car but after I swapped to rear discs it won't do it anymore.

Just to add to fishcats post, You don't drift with a mk1 MR2. Those things are about as close as you'll get to a street legal go-kart. They really aren't made for drifting. Much better to just drive normal.

sorry i did mean MR honest...
i do know that the car is mid engined like F1 cars... cant i make a mistake?!? :flipa:
well anyway, just tried out the left foot braking....yes it did slow me down..(obviously coz i'm braking duh!) but the amazing thing was that my backend did slide out. To be honest it just felt like i pulled up the handbrake, except i didn't...
it wasn't really like....WOW! but still its still an achievement and gonna pratice it....mix it with my toe heel...
and hopefully get enuff practice before i go onto the real cars! haha
then i'll be drifting around in them, get caught by the cops.
nice thought :rolleyes:

or actually i might be inclined to get a nissan 200sx
i like those!

You mean 240SX? Cuz I think the 200SX is just a Sentra.

Originally posted by Setanta


BTW - where've you been man - long time no see :)



To many little kids thinking thier SOHC USDM Civics are the hottest shit out there.

Anyway, the frount and rear suspension is differnt on the SiR, the rear arms are located in a sligthly differnt spot, and the top arm is longer or something. And of course the brakes at all 4 corners are bigger.




And for all the little USDM Civic owners it is VERY easy to drift an EF9.
As I said before they are extremly well balanced, and on the right corner lifting off the throttle will often step the back end out, otherwise they also run a lot of rear brake bias, and its easy to get the back to step out braking late into a corner.


And a MK1 MR2 has to be one of the most fun cars to drift.
But they will bite you hard if you push to far.

WHY use the nadbrake. i can slide my rear end out using no brakes at all. but yes mine does slide out using the E-brake. hmmm is that bad that i can do that and no one else can. or is that good? i dunno oh well. i just go like 60, turn really hard at the last minute, the the tail starts sliding out so i countersteer and ride it out. hmmm. i dunno

Originally posted by FourthGenHatch
You mean 240SX? Cuz I think the 200SX is just a Sentra.

Maybe in the States, but in the rest of the world, the 200SX is a Nissan S14 or S15 Silvia powered with a SR20DET.

Similarly, your 240SX is a 180SX, again powered by a SR20DET turbo. At least, I'm guessing this is the case ;)

hmmm...
e-brake = footbrake?? i'm confused....
anyway, i am still finding it difficult for the rear end to come out.

i'm not sure if my car has the same setup as the USDM civics...
one things for sure, i don't think its good, but i have to stick with it coz i cant afford anything faster because of the damn insurance costs.

Moppie, so if i take a corner and lift my foot off the throttle, the back end comes out?!

I dunno....

Moppie is talking about the EF9 SiR hatch, not the handling on the other varients of the 4th gen. Your car would have similar dynamics to the USDM cars, but not to the SiR which was re-engineered firewall forwards and also in the rear geometry and carries considerably more weight.

Originally posted by Setanta


Maybe in the States, but in the rest of the world, the 200SX is a Nissan S14 or S15 Silvia powered with a SR20DET.

Similarly, your 240SX is a 180SX, again powered by a SR20DET turbo. At least, I'm guessing this is the case ;)

Actually, in the states the 200SX was essentially just a sentra. Kinda like the old version of the new Sentra SE-R(the fast model of 200sx used to be the SE-R).

The 200SX was an upgraded version of the sentra with a slightly different body and I believe in the SE-R, upgraded handling and such. They were powered by the SR20DE, the non-turbo version :(

As for the S13's and S14's and 180's(the S15 was never available state-side in any form) they are all called 240SX's. The most common form of S13 is the 180SX, but there are S13 coupes in the states, just not many. The S14's(both the a's and b's) were sold here identical to the JDM versions(I think) with the one obvious exception of the engine offered in them.

Thats the problem with the silvia's in North America, they were all powered by the same engine. The KA24DE, which if I'm not mistaken is an engine Nissan used for it's pick-up trucks in Japan.

Who cares about the 'States, it's well known you get inferior, second-rate imports :finger: :finger: :finger:

180SX is not a Silvia S13 although it shares the same chassis etc, the body types are very different. S13 = 2 door coupe, 180SX = 3 door hatch. Sileighty = 180SX with S13 nosecone, Onevia = S13 with 180SX nosecone (JDM markets - low volume Aussie Imports). 200SX = S14 and S15 (Aussie/JDM markets). As I pointed out earlier, I'm talking about the real world here, not the U.S.A. :devil:

Originally posted by CAptynCrunch


Actually, in the states the 200SX was essentially just a sentra. Kinda like the old version of the new Sentra SE-R(the fast model of 200sx used to be the SE-R).

The 200SX was an upgraded version of the sentra with a slightly different body and I believe in the SE-R, upgraded handling and such. They were powered by the SR20DE, the non-turbo version :(

As for the S13's and S14's and 180's(the S15 was never available state-side in any form) they are all called 240SX's. The most common form of S13 is the 180SX, but there are S13 coupes in the states, just not many. The S14's(both the a's and b's) were sold here identical to the JDM versions(I think) with the one obvious exception of the engine offered in them.

Thats the problem with the silvia's in North America, they were all powered by the same engine. The KA24DE, which if I'm not mistaken is an engine Nissan used for it's pick-up trucks in Japan.

More roll stiffness at the rear will cause more oversteer. This can be accomplishe by adding more inti-roll bar (saw bar) or higher spring rates.

Ya gotta be careful however or you'll get into a car that's too twitchy. Go at it gradually.

If Habib is still around he seems to have a reasonable setup on his car.

Left foot braking can also induce a bit more tail out attitude.....especially on dirt.

Originally posted by darolh
saw bar

That's "sway" bar. Sorry.