ITB question

so a long time ago i was on another 240 forum..and this guy posted a huge thread on him making ITB's for his 240...and ive been looking and i cant seem to find which thread i was on or where it was....anyone know of where it is? ha

I think NICO and Zilvia had it
IIRC it was using GSXR 1000 ITB setup.

There is a local guy thats doing it with megasquirt for engine management. Pretty cool project.

^^^hes correct GSXR ITB's, you can also find topics and how to's on ka-t.org

yaaa it was using those throttle bodies. and thanks ill take another look on there

NA KA is the fools errand

you're talking about scooters car

it made 160whp finished with ITBs and Haltec.

Then he turboed it and it made 350 and blew up in a day.

NA KA is the fools errand

you're talking about scooters car

it made 160whp finished with ITBs and Haltec.

Then he turboed it and it made 350 and blew up in a day.

blew up in a day? wtf... that sucks

NA KA is the fools errand

you're talking about scooters car

it made 160whp finished with ITBs and Haltec.

Then he turboed it and it made 350 and blew up in a day.

160whp with ITB's, generic header, and no tune just a megasquirt to get it running without a MAF.............. which is pretty good actually on anything but a Honda K series lol

stock cam, stock weak compression... stock weak SOHC head.......

the SOHC is a proven N/A performer........ its the DOHC that has yet to break the 200hp barrier... there are 270hp SOHC n/a carb'd 2.4's........

biggest gains on a SOHC are heads/cam/compression... the heads need work... someone with money will spend it on lightening the crank...... another area with lots of good gain

10.5:1 CR, BIG cam, header, ITB's, TUNING!!! solid rollers, extensive head porting and you are in the area of 200+hp easily

keep in mind stock SR20's put out 165-170whp

also the suzuki ITB's to use are either off a 750 or 1000, and it must be a 2001+ model... you can find on ebay for like 60 bucks sometimes, get an intake manifold out of a junkyard, chop it, run rubber connectors, custom throttle cable, then figure out a way to make it work with the computer... thats really the hardest part


real men drive N/A

leave the hair dryer's for the women
:smokin:

160whp with ITB's, generic header, and no tune just a megasquirt to get it running without a MAF.............. which is pretty good actually on anything but a Honda K series lol

stock cam, stock weak compression... stock weak SOHC head.......

the SOHC is a proven N/A performer........ its the DOHC that has yet to break the 200hp barrier... there are 270hp SOHC n/a carb'd 2.4's........

biggest gains on a SOHC are heads/cam/compression... the heads need work... someone with money will spend it on lightening the crank...... another area with lots of good gain

10.5:1 CR, BIG cam, header, ITB's, TUNING!!! solid rollers, extensive head porting and you are in the area of 200+hp easily

keep in mind stock SR20's put out 165-170whp

also the suzuki ITB's to use are either off a 750 or 1000, and it must be a 2001+ model... you can find on ebay for like 60 bucks sometimes, get an intake manifold out of a junkyard, chop it, run rubber connectors, custom throttle cable, then figure out a way to make it work with the computer... thats really the hardest part


real men drive N/A

leave the hair dryer's for the women
:smokin:

do you know how much all this headwork your talking about is? and lightening a crank usually requires re-hardening and def a re-balance. Cutting a crank down either knifeedged or v-cut will run around 500-700$ alone.

Turbo a KA for 1500$ and ill make an extra 40whp more than your setup. NA 4cyl are a joke IMO, unless your putting the motor in something that weighs nothing (IE hatchback civic..)

I do like the idea of a ITB KA, but what your talking about with that much work into a KA staying NA just seems like a waste..

you can get good headwork done on a KA for 500 bucks or slightly more...

its not how you do it its who you know.......

the KA only has 1 head and its aluminum, so it makes it cheaper then say porting some v8 heads.........

also 3 valves.......

smoothing out the intake and exhaust runners in the head makes a world of difference as they are very sharp edged and have LOTS of room for improvement.........

like I said, if you had money....... knife edgine the crank is a good idea, still 500-700 dollars is cheaper then what a good GT series turbo costs, in fact almost half........ if you have money, 500 bucks isn't a lot.......

also please show me a turbo KA setup that actually reliably makes 350hp for 1500 bucks and doesn't break down within 6 months........ sure you can piece together a bunch of chinese knock-off pieces of crap that just constantly break on you and force you to eventually upgrade every part of the turbo system to a higher quality part....... like waste gates, blow off valves, manifolds, intercoolers, connectors, fittings, lines, boost controllers, etc etc...

a used maf, cast manifold, injectors, and even the very basic tuning tool of a S-afc damn near puts you at 1500 bucks......... think about it for a second



..............................

where as a 200 dollar cam, a 100 dollar header, a dremel with lots of bits, and a spare head, intake manifold and a 100 dollars worth of crap to start making an ITB setup gets you something worth 200hp N/A............. that type of setup is more about refining what you already have, if you can do the work yourself all it requires is your time..... where as with a turbo you have to buy shitloads of expensive parts just to get it running.......



edit.........
also the more I look at stuff, most cheaply put together very basic KA-T people are making 180-230whp.......... if you fail to realize that, then you don't look around at many KA-T projects....

i have a reply, but its long and i typed it on my other computer at my other house and forgot to enter it, ill reply later lol

lol I respect that, I like hearing other people's views....

I just like to go fast, turbo or n/a, and i like the turbo feeling better. But I'm with Fla240SX on this one. IMO i think having a N/A setup is great. Could be more dependable, cheaper, and you dont have to deal with smog issues in CA. In my situation, i would go with the N/A setup on my 240. Does a N/A setup wear the engine as much as a turbo? However, that doesn't mean I dont like turbo. Just my .02

you can get good headwork done on a KA for 500 bucks or slightly more...

its not how you do it its who you know.......

the KA only has 1 head and its aluminum, so it makes it cheaper then say porting some v8 heads.........

also 3 valves.......

smoothing out the intake and exhaust runners in the head makes a world of difference as they are very sharp edged and have LOTS of room for improvement.........

like I said, if you had money....... knife edgine the crank is a good idea, still 500-700 dollars is cheaper then what a good GT series turbo costs, in fact almost half........ if you have money, 500 bucks isn't a lot.......

also please show me a turbo KA setup that actually reliably makes 350hp for 1500 bucks and doesn't break down within 6 months........ sure you can piece together a bunch of chinese knock-off pieces of crap that just constantly break on you and force you to eventually upgrade every part of the turbo system to a higher quality part....... like waste gates, blow off valves, manifolds, intercoolers, connectors, fittings, lines, boost controllers, etc etc...

a used maf, cast manifold, injectors, and even the very basic tuning tool of a S-afc damn near puts you at 1500 bucks......... think about it for a second



..............................

where as a 200 dollar cam, a 100 dollar header, a dremel with lots of bits, and a spare head, intake manifold and a 100 dollars worth of crap to start making an ITB setup gets you something worth 200hp N/A............. that type of setup is more about refining what you already have, if you can do the work yourself all it requires is your time..... where as with a turbo you have to buy shitloads of expensive parts just to get it running.......



edit.........
also the more I look at stuff, most cheaply put together very basic KA-T people are making 180-230whp.......... if you fail to realize that, then you don't look around at many KA-T projects....

See, i tig weld and fabricate. Me building a turbo setup (manifold, DP, intercooler piping, etc..) can be done for what cost of material is at my house. I also get free turbos (all IHI RHB/C series) so i dont have to pay for that also..) Fuel system i would have to pay for yes..

All im saying is, fabricating a turbo setup is much easier IMO, head work is some crafted shit. Not just anyone can get in there and dremel out an aluminum head, its not that easy, or atleast thats not how i do things.

Who said anything about 350whp? i said i would make 40whp more than your NA setup.. Ill say conservatively, from what we have seen done before, the most WHP you'll be making if you put loads of work into the head, crank, and block, that you'll get out 210-220whp (and thats me being nice).

You spend 1500$ on a KA, and ill spend 1500 on a KA, NA vs Turbo, guess who will make more power/cost...

I just like to go fast, turbo or n/a, and i like the turbo feeling better. But I'm with Fla240SX on this one. IMO i think having a N/A setup is great. Could be more dependable, cheaper, and you dont have to deal with smog issues in CA. In my situation, i would go with the N/A setup on my 240. Does a N/A setup wear the engine as much as a turbo? However, that doesn't mean I dont like turbo. Just my .02

I like N/A also, i just think its a waste into an S13 or S14. What someone needs to do it build an N/A ka and drop it into a datsun 510 :grinyes: or a 1st gen RX7 :naughty: . The S13 and S14 would be underpowered with anything n/a but a V8.. thats why i argue it, not that im against the whole N/A KA24 idea...

that's ok, I got no money, LOL

yeah it makes it easier if you can weld/get turbos for free... 9 times out of 10 we can't do that though, so in general N/A is cheaper on a SOHC for say 180-200whp... 220whp would take some bottom end work which costs a lot so don't even figure that

plus I think NA's are a lot less stressful, I mean come on you talk about winding out engines, but if your on boost and making power wouldn't you wind it out anyway if you have the powerband? I know I would........ who hits boost at 4000 then shifts at 5500? Not to mention on average your cramming air say 10-15 times the atmospheric pressure into the combustion chambers..... I think its pretty clear which one puts more pressure on an engine... then you have the whole turbo foaming up the oil thing....... then your exhaust temps and cuombustion chamber temps are WAY higher with a turbo.... you just make more heat, add that to the physical heat the turbine makes under the hood and you start frying brake fluid and master cylinders... cars don't like heat... maybe 80 degree ambient air temp heat to help em warm up or what not... but certainly not 1000 degree exhaust temps.......

with turbo's you introduce that many more parts that can leave you stranded, or better or worse yet actually... with a blown engine or busted headgasket/stretched head hardware..... say your wastegate messes up and sends you a nice boost spike to 35 psi....... and on a stock KA with that kind of pressure you only need a few seconds to cause hundreds of dollars of damage..... if not poke a hole in the block.........

also I just want to add so you get me more here
I don't want a hayabusa killing on the interstate supra wannabe car
I don't want a drag car... if I really wanted to mess with turbos and drag cars I'd get a big block chevy and turbo that..... and you can find big blocks for less then a SR20..... figure that out... straining for 500whp or a big block with 2500whp........ although the SR would last longer, but have no where near the power

I just want a fun car to drive in corners, and thats N/A all the way... I don't want to be the fastest, I just want to have fun driving..... hell a stock miata can be fun on a twisty road and there power SUCKS.....

yeah i see what your saying, and yes i will hands down say N/A motors are longer lasting than turbo motors.. Ive blown 2 motors that were both turboed... Im not going to even touch on all the unreliable issues you talked about, because i agree with most of them lol

As a DD a N/A ka might be ok, but IMO even a 200whp N/A isnt enough...

And how you compare it to the BB being cheaper, yes, but not untill you start trying to find parts or some type of EMS (no way you'd be running a AFC) and you see how much the prices are... Plus, its more fun being able to smash on V8 cars with a built 4cyl, its an ego crusher...

Everyone has there opinions and ways, but i say boost is easier and cheaper and more powerful. Plus, once you've driven a boosted car you wont be able to go back ;)

yeah i see what your saying, and yes i will hands down say N/A motors are longer lasting than turbo motors.. Ive blown 2 motors that were both turboed... Im not going to even touch on all the unreliable issues you talked about, because i agree with most of them lol

As a DD a N/A ka might be ok, but IMO even a 200whp N/A isnt enough...

And how you compare it to the BB being cheaper, yes, but not untill you start trying to find parts or some type of EMS (no way you'd be running a AFC) and you see how much the prices are... Plus, its more fun being able to smash on V8 cars with a built 4cyl, its an ego crusher...

Everyone has there opinions and ways, but i say boost is easier and cheaper and more powerful. Plus, once you've driven a boosted car you wont be able to go back ;)

I hear you on ego crushing thats defintely fun...... also you can still run forced induction on CARBS!!! hehe........

but to me picking up a v8 and putting a turbo on it doesn't nessecarily mean I want to do the us vs jap type shit... I just want to make power and go fast you know........ im not all about sides.... to many people get all caught up in that stuff and burn bridges or make enemies of people who could help you yanno..... like a lot of Nissan people wouldn't give someone with a Honda the time of day....... but that guy might know something you don't or have a good idea for you........


and I don't really think sides are based on engines as much as they are cars.... now if you want to talk about taking sides on your car, say a 240sx vs a Mustang..... now theres some ponies I'd love to whip like going down the backstretch at the kentucky derby lol...........

just cause I hate stangs lol

but engines are engines.......... you pick one over the other based on price, weight, reliability, ease to use... etc.

Not to mention on average your cramming air say 10-15 times the atmospheric pressure into the combustion chambers.....
atmospheric pressusre (1bar) is 14.7psi. x10-15
WHO THE FUCK HAVE YOU SEEN RUNNING 140-210PSI??????
Not even semi truck do that shit -you know high compression turbo motors that eaisly get 1 million miles on them.


like I said, if you had money....... knife edgine the crank is a good idea, still 500-700 dollars is cheaper then what a good GT series turbo costs, in fact almost half........ if you have money, 500 bucks isn't a lot.......

Mostly the SR guys run the GT series as its a bolt in, so they don't have to custom make the downpipes and such.
If you want power a $500-700 dollar T3/T4 will do a lot better with a top mount manifold.

plus I think NA's are a lot less stressful, I mean come on you talk about winding out engines, but if your on boost and making power wouldn't you wind it out anyway if you have the powerband? I know I would........ who hits boost at 4000 then shifts at 5500?

Thats because you don't know what your talking about.

N/A Motors are less stressed than turbo motors because they make substantially less HP. The Stress induced from wrapping an N/A motor out to make power is exponential. An SR shifting at 6 would still keep up with a built KA and would last until the cows came home.

an NA KA that makes the same wheel horsepower as a bolton SR20 on 14lbs will need to be rebuilt every week and will be horrible to drive from the retarded powerband.

Look at Taka, Taka has a 230 something whp NA corrola and he can barely do a rolling burnout in first gear.


I just want a fun car to drive in corners, and thats N/A all the way... I don't want to be the fastest, I just want to have fun driving..... hell a stock miata can be fun on a twisty road and there power SUCKS.....

Get a S14/S15 SR20, Run 14lbs through it with bolt ons. You'll make 260whp and it will last forever, will have zero lag, and a huge amount of bottom end.

people who tell you otherwise either have crappily running SRs or are just spamming the same garbage you're trying to pitch me.

PS.


Turbo KAs blow up because broke faggots do them shitty.

A properly running bolt on SR or KA would last longer than any n/a KA pretending to make 180whp.

as if everybody these days fries a master cylinder when they go turbo. as if boost spikes arent preventable. a fun car in the corners with an N/A KA!? you must love swinging it. but seriously dude, as everyone else already said, its totally illogical to build an N/A KA for a fun mild street car. theres a reason why %99 of RWD nissan drivers go turbo or V8.

a daihatsu mira in reverse gear at full wheel lock is a hell of alot of fun but thats not saying much is it? i doubt 180hp will keep you entertained for a while, and you wont be smiling when the hondas walk past you. a simple t3 on the side of a K/A will walk whatever is done to your N/A ka.

there is just no justification in spending the same ammount of money for so much less power when all you want is a fast street car. i would rather pop a stock cheap K/A block any fucking day instead of a $$$$$$ N/A tuned one.

all what money?

cam 130 bucks. summit racing
crank pulley 60 bucks ebay
header 110 bucks ebay
test pipe 25 bucks ebay
catback 150 bucks ebay
flywheel 200 bucks ebay
intake parts, 20 bucks ebay
ITB's, 120 bucks ebay

AGAIN... all what money?

or instead of buying all of that I could have bought a cast iron KA-T manifold and a S-AFC........

oh wait then I'd need injectors, MAF, TURBO, INtercooler, Downpipe, BOV, Wastegate, fiitings, clamps, and piping........ WAAAAAAAAAAAY more money dude, then theres the thing everyone seems to forget in price outs, you gonna run 350whp on the OEM clutch? hahaha....

if I wanted a FAST car I wouldn't have got a 240sx....... would have gotten a Camaro

Z-28 6 speed, 3500 bucks
STS turbo kit... 3,000
forged LT-1 pistons rods, rings.... 500 bucks
200 shot nitrous..... 450 bucks

800whp..... OWNAGE OF damn near evey SR20 in existance in the world........

congrats, then you have a car with less than 160whp.


whereas the turbo parts you listed would get you over 250.

also.

don't need.

blowoff valve
wastegate
MAF


I could build a KAT for 1500$ that would make more power than an NA KA would dream of.

SR20 T25 200$
SR20 370s 75$
Rom Tune 300$
SSAC Manifold/dp/elbow/test pipe 250$
Ebay S13 Intercooler 250$

theres a 1075$

XTD ebay clutch 250$


done, faster with more usable power with money for bullshit on the side.


That car makes 220whp all day long, yours makes 160 on a cold day before the intake manifold heat soaks.

all what money?

cam 130 bucks. summit racing
crank pulley 60 bucks ebay
header 110 bucks ebay
test pipe 25 bucks ebay
catback 150 bucks ebay
flywheel 200 bucks ebay
intake parts, 20 bucks ebay
ITB's, 120 bucks ebay

AGAIN... all what money?

A cam from summit for a KA? because the only one im seeing is this.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2D88%2D123%2D4&view=32&N=700+115

which is for z20/22/24, im not sure if the Z heads are the same as the KA heads, if so, that cam will only work with a SOHC KA.

A 110$ header? whats it made of plastic? i mean if your going to price your shit at ebay's XS prices then watch how cheap i can price out a turbo kit and a FMU...

again, catback for 150? Where are you buying your shit at? 150 is the cost of a real N1 muffler alone.

Flywheel 200$? im sorry but the only KA flywheel even worth talking about is 300-350, which would be a fidanze, and when you buy it you'll be paying for balancing of the PP/Flywheel anyways so tack on more money for that.

ITB's for 130? if all your planning to do is run the ITB's then your also going to need to run a full standalone. or you can make the ITB's meet togethor in a logstyle plenum and then run your stock MAF off that, but then that would require fabrication and lots of AL (wont be cheap and i doubt you have the tig skills/fab skills to do it...)

Your prices suck, and are all way off. I could run a T3 with a FMU and still make more power than your N/A setup...

congrats, then you have a car with less than 160whp.


whereas the turbo parts you listed would get you over 250.

also.

don't need.

blowoff valve
wastegate
MAF


I could build a KAT for 1500$ that would make more power than an NA KA would dream of.

SR20 T25 200$
SR20 370s 75$
Rom Tune 300$
SSAC Manifold/dp/elbow/test pipe 250$
Ebay S13 Intercooler 250$

theres a 1075$

XTD ebay clutch 250$


done, faster with more usable power with money for bullshit on the side.


That car makes 220whp all day long, yours makes 160 on a cold day before the intake manifold heat soaks.

thats the setup i had for my car when i sold it. :iceslolan This SAME setup on a KA at 13psi made 220hp/250ftlbs at the wheels. I dont even think there are any N/A built KA's that touch that...

I was actually reading about ITBs on KA's the other day. Check out the baja race SOHC engines they used to race. 220 hp na daily drivable awsome powerband and 8k redline. that comes from header, exhaust, port and polish, 13:1 compression, and carbs if i recall right, not sure what else the did to them but there are some 300 hp ones( race purpose only, 1800rpm idle) I plan on doing na on my 90 if i dont sell it. 220 will be awsome in a guttted out full suspension autocross car. that route isnt a cheap road to na power though. however on my 93, turbo for sure. nothing compares to that turbo feeling when your acceleration is accelerating...

I was actually reading about ITBs on KA's the other day. Check out the baja race SOHC engines they used to race. 220 hp na daily drivable awsome powerband and 8k redline. that comes from header, exhaust, port and polish, 13:1 compression, and carbs if i recall right, not sure what else the did to them but there are some 300 hp ones( race purpose only, 1800rpm idle) I plan on doing na on my 90 if i dont sell it. 220 will be awsome in a guttted out full suspension autocross car. that route isnt a cheap road to na power though. however on my 93, turbo for sure. nothing compares to that turbo feeling when your acceleration is accelerating...



No.


Those motors get rebuilt after each race.


13:1 compression? you're doing it to be cheap, you couldn't afford the 116 Race Gas you'd need for a day.

Sorry about my original post, I was running out the door so i poorly wrote it. Thats true the 300hp get rebuilt every race. But for my SOHC I Planning on making ~200 to ~220. I didnt say it would be cheap to do it that way though.
Pistons (race)- Courtesyparts.com = $830
Camshaft (race)- Courtesyparts.com = $300
New OE Rocker Arm - Courtesyparts.com = $200
Connecting Rods GT3(race) - Courtesyparts.com = $1000

Add in ITB, Megasquirt, Machine Work, Headgasket, Injectors ECT... ~$2000

Now were talking around $4k+ not cheap by any means, but dependable, NA power. Sure you can make alot more power cheaper w/ a turbo (which is what i have in mind for my DE), but alot of the time a NA engine makes more usable power and is more suited for autocross/track use. An S2K makes 240hp at the crank but is torque-less and doesnt make that power till 5-6k. This engine will have a much more practical powerband than that, and will make more torque. Plenty of power to push a stripped S13 around the track.

I dunno why you guys keep talking about NA powerband and response.

We're talking about 200hp from a T25 not a T04E or something. On a KA it will be in boost at least 2000rpm before a NA car even gets near being on the cam.

The N/A builds you're talking about rarely make over 180hp. RARELY.

And if you're really serious, between 13:1 compression and Nissan head design a megasquirt is gonna fall flat on its face.

engine parts
ARIES10.7:1 compression pistons
shot pined and ballanced rods
knife edged and ballanced crank
bored .020 over
ported and polished head
swirl polished stock size valves
stainless steel OBX header
custom Cams
ACT 2600 pressure plate and 6 puck racing clutch disc

All this and more, $5.5K in work, made only 160 WHP, N/A blows dick.

lol at Russel coming here and spreading knowledge while wreakin havoc once a month when Zilvia gets lame.

Technically it was a one month ban from a certian comment about a certian nico admin's wife.



also the fact that this place is easier to make a new name than log into your old one.

lol, my computer never logs out or i would never come on here.

I dunno why you guys keep talking about NA powerband and response.

We're talking about 200hp from a T25 not a T04E or something. On a KA it will be in boost at least 2000rpm before a NA car even gets near being on the cam.

The N/A builds you're talking about rarely make over 180hp. RARELY.

And if you're really serious, between 13:1 compression and Nissan head design a megasquirt is gonna fall flat on its face.

i know, its stupid how they are trying to say so much about the N/A powerband. I start building boost at about 2400rpm on my car, and can achieve 20psi at about 3000rpm. And thats on my shitty SOHC G54, i bet a KA24DE would outflow my head anyday, and spool my same turbo quicker. Not only that, but ive got a big 16G, not a T25 so you'd be even making THAT much more power... A real N/A motor wont even have that powerband cuz you'd have to be running a huge cam to get too 200-220whp..