Question

Before everyone starts giving me griff about this, I dont want to hear it, all I want is my question answered.

My friend has a 1996 Eagle Talon TSI FWD 4G63 Turbo motor, that we are putting into a 1992 Eagle Talon ES with a 2.0 N/A motor, we have all the parts we need to install it into the 92, but the motor harness. We were woundering if we could use a 1st gen 4G63 harness on the 2nd gen motor, if not, if we keep the 2nd gen harness can we use it with the 1st gen cabin harness?

I dont think it gonna work. Why people keep thinking about putting a turbo 4g63 into a n/a turbo cars ?

I dont think it gonna work. Why people keep thinking about putting a turbo 4g63 into a n/a turbo cars ?
Everyone told me I couldnt put a 2.0 N/A motor in a 1.8 Shell, but I did. So unless someone has the answer I need please dont respond. Cuz all your going to do is spam up the thread.

There is no diff in the motor mounts for the main part, there are some mods needed, but the motor bolts right up, the 2nd gen 4G63 motor is the same design as the 1st gen 4G63.

you should find only minor differences, I would keep both harnesses just so you are sure you have everything. It can be done, the only thing i would worry about is if the '96 motor is prone to crankwalk.

you may need the 96 ECU to pull this off.

you should find only minor differences, I would keep both harnesses just so you are sure you have everything. It can be done, the only thing i would worry about is if the '96 motor is prone to crankwalk.

you may need the 96 ECU to pull this off.

We have the 96 ecu, tranny, motor mounts, motor harness and cabin harness, all the odd and end sensors.

Nope. The 7 bolt has a crank angle sensor and a cam angle sensor... the 6 bolt just has the cam angle sensor. There might be a way to ghetto rig it in there but it would be a bad idea for sure. Just get a 2g harness.

You can use the 1g harness, but you will have to change a few of the various plugs on the harness to accomodate the 2g motor. I would think thats easier than trying to make the 2g harness accomodate the interior harness and such... But then again the plugs may be different on the 1g ecu... This is the part thats gonna get very tricky...

Odd as it sounds, when we went to plug in the 2nd gen ecu into the first gen ecu plug, it plugged right in. We need to keep the first gen cabin harness due to the seat belts, gauge cluster, radio and heater/ac controllers. We just need to know if we can plug the 2nd harness into the 1st gen cabin harness.

Ok, heres one more thing I need to ask, we have a 94 4G63 5 speed tranny laying around, the tranny on the 96 4G63 is auto, can we use the tranny from the 94 on the 96?

Ok, heres one more thing I need to ask, we have a 94 4G63 5 speed tranny laying around, the tranny on the 96 4G63 is auto, can we use the tranny from the 94 on the 96?
Yes... This is kinda like bolting up a 2g tranny to a 1g motor... All you need is the right flywheel and such... I think you need to use a 2g flywheel with it...

Yes... This is kinda like bolting up a 2g tranny to a 1g motor... All you need is the right flywheel and such... I think you need to use a 2g flywheel with it...

Sweet thanks everyone for the help. Now all I need to finish looking into is if the 2nd gen engine harness will fit the 1st gen cabin harness. Then we will start our swap.

Does the 94 tranny have one mount on it or three? I was under the impression that all 1g's had one mount on them and it was 95 that started the three mount madness. Just check and see, if there is three mounts then go for it.

Does the 94 tranny have one mount on it or three? I was under the impression that all 1g's had one mount on them and it was 95 that started the three mount madness. Just check and see, if there is three mounts then go for it.

Im not really sure. I will have to check and see. but as long as it mounts up to the frame on the 1992 then thats all we need.

See, in a 2g the rear mount is on the tranny. Whereas on a 1g the rear mount is on the motor... You may have to adapt the rear mount to accomodate this difference...

You can't use a 1g tranny in a 2g, but you can use a 2g tranny in a 1g, because of the mounts, unless you want to fab up your own mounts, or completely swap transmission cases if you're capable of that.

You can't use a 1g tranny in a 2g, but you can use a 2g tranny in a 1g, because of the mounts, unless you want to fab up your own mounts, or completely swap transmission cases if you're capable of that.

Other then the mounts, is there anything stopping us from using the tranny with the motor?

I think you may run into problems using that 1g cabin harness with the 2g ECU. I could be wrong, however I don't think I am. There are subtle differences in two years of the 1G the 90-91 ECU is wired different than the 92-94 ECU. I'm sure the same goes for the 1g to 2g harness. However, if you can get an electrical guide for the pinouts on the 96 ECU and a wiring diagram for the harness, it may be a matter of simply switching some pins in the harness to match the ECU.


As far as the tranny thing goes, I would think you would have to use a 1g flywheel with a 1g tranny and vice versa, but I could be mistaken.

I think you may run into problems using that 1g cabin harness with the 2g ECU. I could be wrong, however I don't think I am. There are subtle differences in two years of the 1G the 90-91 ECU is wired different than the 92-94 ECU. I'm sure the same goes for the 1g to 2g harness. However, if you can get an electrical guide for the pinouts on the 96 ECU and a wiring diagram for the harness, it may be a matter of simply switching some pins in the harness to match the ECU.


As far as the tranny thing goes, I would think you would have to use a 1g flywheel with a 1g tranny and vice versa, but I could be mistaken.

For the tranny we need the fly wheel, and clutch and stuff for the motor, thats what I was told.

We already pulled the old motor out today, tomorrow I should have pictures up on our website.

As far as as the harness we have a 2nd gen 4G63T engine harness, and a 1st gen 4G63T cabin harness. What we also relized the 5 speed tranny we have is a non turbo. So we have 2 5 speed none turbo trannys. Can we use then trannys on our 4G63T?

They will probably "bolt-up", but my guess is that you'll blow them to pieces within a few days, so the overall answer would be no.

Actually, IIRC, the FWD trannys are the same between the 2.0 turbo and 2.0 non-turbo models in 1g's...

Actually, IIRC, the FWD trannys are the same between the 2.0 turbo and 2.0 non-turbo models in 1g's...

So that means I can use the no turbo tranny on the 2nd gen? Also today we are pulling the wiring harness's and "hopefully" installing the new motor. If not we are at least doing the harness and installing the new harness.

We are using the stock 2nd gen motor harness, But we are using a 1st gen fwd tsi cabin harness. We hope everything bolts up. Need be we will get a wiring diagram and rewire some pins.

Pictures should be up tomorrow or later today.

As long as your using the tranny in a 1g... Then yes it should work just fine...

Here are those pictures liked promised.

http://twistedmotorsports07.angelfire.com/ptalon.html

Here are some videos also.

http://twistedmotorsports07.angelfire.com/videos.html

The second gen 4g63 is definitely not the same design as the first gen, even the 7 bolts. There are significant differences, but probably nothing that would prevent you from doing the swap.

It is definitely not worth trying to put a 1g trans in a 2g car. It's been done, and it required a good bit of welding and crossmember fabrication to make it work. You're welcome to follow in their footsteps and make it happen, but you can pick up DSM transmissions cheap enough, especially FWDs, that I can't find a way to justify the pain in the ass.

You can use the 1g harness on the 2g motor, and that is what I would recomend. You'll have to swap over some of the 1g sensors, basically the opposite of doing a 6 bolt swap in a 2g. Knock sensor, coolant temp sensors (just one of them perhaps, can't recall), MAS, and you'll want to use a 1g CAS which will provide both the cam and crank angle signals. You can wire the 2g sensors up to work, but I don't see the point. The more stuff you keep 1g the easier it will be to keep track of and work on later.

I'm having some vague memories of the 1g and 2g block castings being different, in such a way that you can't swap over the motor mounts. Only way to find out is to try it.

IIRC, the non-turbo trans (F5m22) and the turbo trans (F5m33) had a few internal differences. The most memorable one being that the F5m33 had tapered bearings to handle the increased torque loads that the turbo engines would be putting on the trans, where as the F5m22 didn't have tapered bearings.

This was taken from DSMtuners(to backup my statement)

One of the big differences is the bearings. The M22 has typical roller bearings. The m33 has tapered roller bearings. The tapered roller bearings allow it to handle more torque, plain and simple. For the NT, either will work.