acceleration

Since I have almost no place to race around here, I tend to like acceleration more than top end. What kind of mods do you reccommend to get the best 0-60 time on a civic? Cheaper the better. y'all know my civic by now:

well, heads, overboring it, or a turbo are pretty much the only thing that will increase speed and acceleration while keeping streetability. you could get a racing cam, but then the idle would be unbareable.

Picking up 0-60 mtimes will be tough w/o major cash, you can do I/H/E which will get you 15.7 1/4 times. Other than that you are look ing at some kind of F/I :(

Originally posted by Dezoris
Picking up 0-60 mtimes will be tough w/o major cash, you can do I/H/E which will get you 15.7 1/4 times. Other than that you are look ing at some kind of F/I :(

sorry, I am Kinda new to the auto slang/inits. can you please explain "I/H/E" and "F/I" also what is "overboring"

thanks. and I got a few bucks to spend, just not thousands.

F/I is forced induction, like Turbos, Nitrous, superchargers.
I/H/E, intake headers exaust. overboring, pertains to the motor's bore and stroke, over boreing means increasing the bore and stroke, which usually ups the displacement. Like your motor is 1.6L/1598cc it can up it to 1.7L/1700cc, depending.

Originally posted by Dezoris
F/I is forced induction, like Turbos, Nitrous, superchargers.Why is nitrous included in forced induction?

You are forcing nitrous via a bottle under pressure into the intake and manifold. not much different than the others.

I thought "forced induction" refered to the forced induction of air. It is different in that regard, but that may have just been an assumption on my part.

Well nitrous is a gas, and it is pressurized, like the others, only the motor is not involved in the presurization process, the heavy ass bottle is. :) I really don't look at nitrous as being a true F/I option believe me, it just can't be left out, so may people love it. not me.

With all due respect you have a car made for economical purchase and operation. If you modify it it will still be a honda.

Consider selling it and buying a performance car.

Cars that have 350 cu in engines in them have been the standard now for 40 years.

I really think that's the way to go.

Originally posted by 92BlackLT-1
With all due respect you have a car made for economical purchase and operation. If you modify it it will still be a honda.

Consider selling it and buying a performance car.

Cars that have 350 cu in engines in them have been the standard now for 40 years.

I really think that's the way to go.
Yes, The domestics will always be faster, but it is a question of getting the most out of what you have :)

Originally posted by Dezoris
F/I is forced induction, like Turbos, Nitrous, superchargers.
I/H/E, intake headers exaust. overboring, pertains to the motor's bore and stroke, over boreing means increasing the bore and stroke, which usually ups the displacement. Like your motor is 1.6L/1598cc it can up it to 1.7L/1700cc, depending.

thanx!

how much would that stuff cost? forget turbo and nitro and all that bs, just the other stuff like overboring and I/H/E.

HMM... NITROUS ISNT ON ANY F/I LIST I HAVE EVER SEEN... AH WELL...
ALSO...

SPORTS CAR W/350S HAVE NOT BEEN THE NORM.
THE NORM HAS BEEN SMALL LIGHT CARS. LOTUS. FERRARI. JAGUAR. CARS LIKE THAT ARE THE NORM. YOU ARE LOOKIN AT AMERICA. GREAT. LOOK AT THE NORM AROUND THE WORLD.
NOT TO SAY A 350 IS A BAD MOTOR. BUT THERE ARE LOTS OF LITTLE MOTOR CARS THAT WILL KILL A 350 POWERED CAR, TRUCK, OR WHATEVER. PLEASE DONT BE AN IGNORANT DOMESTIC OWNER.
OH, YEAH. IM NOT SAYING YOU ARE. SO DONT FLAME ME. IM JUST ASKING THAT YOU OPEN YOUR EYES TO MOTORS THAT ARE HALF YOUR SIZE. WHICH ARE MUCH MORE ABUNDANT THAN WHATCHA GOT.

AND ONE MORE THING.
SIZE AND POWER DONT MATTER.
POWER TO WEIGHT IS IT MAN. I DONT CARE HOW BIG YOUR MOTOR IS.

Yea, Becareful with yoru exhaust pipe size, going with to large of a pipe size would cause a decrease in Low End power, which what you need for acceleration.


That is tha reason why Black LT-1 suggested a small car with a 350, good low end power in a small package.

And, flywsi: Here in the US most sports cars have a engine with about 305's-350's, Fords have 302's-351's and Chrysler's mainly have 318's-360's. The new Mustangs have 4.6 liter's which is about 289 cid or so.

being an owner of a domestic as well(94 s10 xcab 4.3 w/a stick in it, modded a bit), i am really put off by that.
america doesnt have sports cars per se. that is what i meant. mustangs etc are muscle cars. there have been enough big motor mustangs through my garage to know that.
if you have seen my posts anywhere on this site you will note that i am not biased. but the simple post was that sports cars are not generally 350 cars. maybe here, and then those arent sports cars. they tie into the pony car/muscle car image. and the vette... that is a bit above a sports car. if anything, though, it is the closest.
to me a sports car is something along the lines of an old lotus or a small light weight car with a motor to match the car.this means that power to weight is the key. but that doesnt mean i dont know what a 5.7 is.and the corvette, which is actually smaller than 350, and has been for a while, weighs in at 5.3 liters.
also... find me a sports car made right now that is from chrysler with a 318 in it... the closest thing is a dakota r/t. which is not a bad option.
this is not a knock, just stating that i know my shiet and i dont post things like that w/o knowing both sides.

thus stated...
the sports car here is a muscle car. the rest of the world, however, runs around in smaller motor cars that have great power to weight ratios or turbos that kick all sortsa power. or in amazing little motors with some wild infinitely variable cams. like the porsche the ferrari and the bmw, not to mention vtec.
we americans are stuck on bigger is better.
until we get beat by a civic and scratch heads...

Dez is right.. Its very hard to get improved 0-60 times without doing FI. I really doubt that I/H/E will help your 0-60 times much if at all, they could even hurt 0-60 times depending on what products you get. You want something that will give you lowend torque (which we all know is a problem in FWD cars..)

Turbos will help if you have a turbo with little or now lag. If your turbo is to big it will cause to much lag giving less lowend torque, because you are using exhaust gases to spool the turbo. The smaller turbo the faster it will spool up.

Superchargers are nice in that the fact the power is instant when you stomp on the gas. The problem with SC's is that they arent as tunable so you cant just crank the boost up changing turn the knob on the boost controller.

Nitrous is a good cheap way to add quick power but wont really help you out much when it comes to 0-60 times either. you only want to use N2O when you are WOT (wide open throttle) and over 3000 RPMs or so.

But to get cheap lowend torque, I wish I had an answer for you.

hmmm.... bummer, cuz low-end torque is what I like. Guess I should just go buy a torqueyer car eh? how good is a crx compared to a civic in LET (low end torque)?

thanks for the info though guys:)

well...
on a 3 gen prelude, cam gears are good for ten ft lbs of tq up to 3500 rpm... that is pretty good lowend pickup...
it just depends on your motor...
as previously stated, you have an econocar...
my prelude is a sports car, and a civic si is a sporty car... vs a dx civic... it is harder, but it is doable...
for example...
you get more lowend out of a cai, and headers are usually good... as well as a well designed exh
another thought is a lightened flywheel which will let you rev quicker, getting to the power quicker...
or you can launch at higher rpms...
if i am racin it on the street i launch much higher than if i am just drivin... gets me into the power quicker... its more in how you drive/take advantage of the power you got...

for example... if you are a better driver... you can take a vette off the line, b/c you may have better skills launching or reaction time... however, b/c of the sheer power it will eat you up...
but at least you know you got him where it counts.
any nerd can drive a nice car...
but it takes a good driver to use a car to its full potential

Originally posted by flylwsi
HMM... NITROUS ISNT ON ANY F/I LIST I HAVE EVER SEEN... AH WELL...
ALSO...

SPORTS CAR W/350S HAVE NOT BEEN THE NORM.
THE NORM HAS BEEN SMALL LIGHT CARS. LOTUS. FERRARI. JAGUAR. CARS LIKE THAT ARE THE NORM. YOU ARE LOOKIN AT AMERICA. GREAT. LOOK AT THE NORM AROUND THE WORLD.
NOT TO SAY A 350 IS A BAD MOTOR. BUT THERE ARE LOTS OF LITTLE MOTOR CARS THAT WILL KILL A 350 POWERED CAR, TRUCK, OR WHATEVER. PLEASE DONT BE AN IGNORANT DOMESTIC OWNER.
OH, YEAH. IM NOT SAYING YOU ARE. SO DONT FLAME ME. IM JUST ASKING THAT YOU OPEN YOUR EYES TO MOTORS THAT ARE HALF YOUR SIZE. WHICH ARE MUCH MORE ABUNDANT THAN WHATCHA GOT.

AND ONE MORE THING.
SIZE AND POWER DONT MATTER.
POWER TO WEIGHT IS IT MAN. I DONT CARE HOW BIG YOUR MOTOR IS.


http://www.users.qwest.net/~bkc3/+junk/capslock.gif
Im glad we found that key :D:D

Originally posted by flylwsi

another thought is a lightened flywheel which will let you rev quicker, getting to the power quicker...
or you can launch at higher rpms...
if i am racin it on the street i launch much higher than if i am just drivin... gets me into the power quicker... its more in how you drive/take advantage of the power you got...

for example... if you are a better driver... you can take a vette off the line, b/c you may have better skills launching or reaction time... however, b/c of the sheer power it will eat you up...
but at least you know you got him where it counts.
any nerd can drive a nice car...
but it takes a good driver to use a car to its full potential
lightened flywheels on cars that are not F/I or high N/A tuned are not a good idea, unless it is a track car. There are risk factors to look at.
Cam gears for a SOHC is worthless, even cams w/ adjustable gear tuned on a dyno will be hard pressed to produce more than 5 useable HP.

Originally posted by Dezoris

lightened flywheels on cars that are not F/I or high N/A tuned are not a good idea, unless it is a track car. There are risk factors to look at...

What kinda of risk factors? I know about the RPMs falling to fast, and could make your car idle rough.. What else would it do?

Originally posted by Darkwing
how good is a crx compared to a civic in LET (low end torque)?


They are the exact same.. The only difference between the 2 is the fact that the CRX is lighter then the civic. Now If you put a prelude motor in a CRX you would have a beast on your hands. The power to weight ratio would be unbelievable. It would make a perfect strip car. Wouldn’t be to great on the road though because the motor weighs so much, your weight distribution would be crappy.

Originally posted by Racing Rice





They are the exact same.. The only difference between the 2 is the fact that the CRX is lighter then the civic. Now If you put a prelude motor in a CRX you would have a beast on your hands. The power to weight ratio would be unbelievable. It would make a perfect strip car. Wouldn’t be to great on the road though because the motor weighs so much, your weight distribution would be crappy.




sweet! I'm gonna do that! and to balance, I'll put some lead weights in the trunk! heck yeah! w00t!!!

Originally posted by Racing Rice


What kinda of risk factors? I know about the RPMs falling to fast, and could make your car idle rough.. What else would it do?



They are the exact same.. The only difference between the 2 is the fact that the CRX is lighter then the civic. Now If you put a prelude motor in a CRX you would have a beast on your hands. The power to weight ratio would be unbelievable. It would make a perfect strip car. Wouldn’t be to great on the road though because the motor weighs so much, your weight distribution would be crappy.



Well, lightened flywheels on a car w/o a lot of power, namely our Civics, can cause some lagging low, that will cause us to rev higher to get the car going. Aluminum flywheels have a tendency to warp, which is dangerous, unless only track driven, warping is very common in the race field and scatter shields are a must, unless you want your trans blowing your chest off. The Chromoly steel flywheels like Jun have had problems with cracking due to the starter gear, an once those flywheels get a chip or crack, you are in trouble. Would you want your flywheel cracking in haldf in a trans spinning several 1000rpms?

thanks...
i reply at werk, and i am always in caps here...

Originally posted by Racing Rice


What kinda of risk factors? I know about the RPMs falling to fast, and could make your car idle rough.. What else would it do?



They are the exact same.. The only difference between the 2 is the fact that the CRX is lighter then the civic. Now If you put a prelude motor in a CRX you would have a beast on your hands. The power to weight ratio would be unbelievable. It would make a perfect strip car. Wouldn’t be to great on the road though because the motor weighs so much, your weight distribution would be crappy.




No need to go for extremes but a slightly lightened flywheel will help.

Any body here weighed an H22A compared to a B series motor, it is heavier but not by enough to make a huge difference. Its just all that power in suspension thats not designeed for it...in a quality install with the suspension suitably modified it will not be a big factor

Originally posted by Dezoris

Well, lightened flywheels on a car w/o a lot of power, namely our Civics, can cause some lagging low, that will cause us to rev higher to get the car going. Aluminum flywheels have a tendency to warp, which is dangerous, unless only track driven, warping is very common in the race field and scatter shields are a must, unless you want your trans blowing your chest off. The Chromoly steel flywheels like Jun have had problems with cracking due to the starter gear, an once those flywheels get a chip or crack, you are in trouble. Would you want your flywheel cracking in haldf in a trans spinning several 1000rpms?

Its a good thing that I asked then..because Ive never heard that.

Originally posted by flylwsi
being an owner of a domestic as well(94 s10 xcab 4.3 w/a stick in it, modded a bit), i am really put off by that.
america doesnt have sports cars per se. that is what i meant. mustangs etc are muscle cars. there have been enough big motor mustangs through my garage to know that.
if you have seen my posts anywhere on this site you will note that i am not biased. but the simple post was that sports cars are not generally 350 cars. maybe here, and then those arent sports cars. they tie into the pony car/muscle car image. and the vette... that is a bit above a sports car. if anything, though, it is the closest.
to me a sports car is something along the lines of an old lotus or a small light weight car with a motor to match the car.this means that power to weight is the key. but that doesnt mean i dont know what a 5.7 is.and the corvette, which is actually smaller than 350, and has been for a while, weighs in at 5.3 liters.
also... find me a sports car made right now that is from chrysler with a 318 in it... the closest thing is a dakota r/t. which is not a bad option.
this is not a knock, just stating that i know my shiet and i dont post things like that w/o knowing both sides.

thus stated...
the sports car here is a muscle car. the rest of the world, however, runs around in smaller motor cars that have great power to weight ratios or turbos that kick all sortsa power. or in amazing little motors with some wild infinitely variable cams. like the porsche the ferrari and the bmw, not to mention vtec.
we americans are stuck on bigger is better.
until we get beat by a civic and scratch heads...


Good points flylwsi, I never really thought about it, but you are right, there are no "sports" cars made domestically here. Its interesting now that I think of it, just about every foriegn auto maker has the same basic lineups (SUV's, full/mid size sedan, smaller sedan/coupe) as domestic companies, but with one exception, they usually have a small roadster in the lineup as well. (theres your sports car ;) )

Oh, and to focus on the question at hand, if you want more power on your Honda, forced induction seems to be the quickest way to do it. Supercharging may be good for you since you seem to want low end power, and SC's can offer linear power delivery throughout the rpm's. But dont rule out turbos, because Ive read that the right size turbo can perform just as well if not better, and turbos will always be more efficient. Finally, if you want more torque maybe a new engine is for you? Check out http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/ for info on that

thanks... i dint mean to put down american companies, but there are no true sports cars out there...

somebody mentioned changing gear ratios. will that work on an automatic? yeah yeah, I know, an automatic. It sucks, but I'm still learning how to drive. I'll get a manual someday...


edit: whoa! I just checked out that hybrid page! waaaaay to risky for me! maybe a heck of a lot cheaper for more power, but dang that's treading lightly on the legal stuff. If I'm going to have to go through a bunch of legal um stuff, to get a faster engine, forget it! I'll just take my little econo car and put put around town. I'll wait till I can buy a more legally secure car. holymoly...

Originally posted by flylwsi
thanks... i dint mean to put down american companies, but there are no true sports cars out there...

Dodge Viper?
Chevy Corvette ZR-1?
DeLorean DMC-12 (I think that's American, GMC right?)?
Honda Civic? lol, just kidding:D

but the viper and ZR-1 are sportscars if you ask me!

Originally posted by 92BlackLT-1
With all due respect you have a car made for economical purchase and operation. If you modify it it will still be a honda.

Consider selling it and buying a performance car.

Cars that have 350 cu in engines in them have been the standard now for 40 years.

I really think that's the way to go.

You're right, after modifying the car, it will still be a Honda. But what's wrong with that?

When I think of "hotrodding" a car, or "modding" a car, (whatever term is used) I think of taking a car that was never meant to be fast, and making it go fast (fast being a relative term). That's the fun of it. Going out and buying a V8 will get you a quick 0-60 time. But it doesn't sound like a lot of fun (unless you like talking to salespeople and signing paperwork...) Sorry about the sarcasm but I hope I'm making sense here...

in the traditional sense of a sports car the vette and viper are not.
the viper is an all out muscle car.
the vette is still a muscle car, hell it started the muscle car thing. back when they started puttin 396 and 427s in em.
not to say that they arent, but when you look at them compared to other sports cars, like a boxster, or maybe a 911, or an older lotus...
that is what i meant...
any front engine rwd car with a huge v8 or v10 is not really a sports car...
sporty kinda denotes a lightweight well balanced car... a car that uses weight as a way to improve performance vs adding cubes and gobs of hp...
not that i dont like that idea, but that is what im saying

ha ha! One of my first posts. I remember this. Oh how much I have learned since then. Its funny to read my old posts. "what is I/H/E?" lol :D

btw- I like that pic of my car, I am going to save it to my harddrive. (lost alot of pics when my HD crashed a while back)

I did get an intake since then, but thats it. Still got an econocar. But its a good little econocar. Nothing you guys would envy, but I like it.

Say, where did Dezoris go to anyway? He was real knowlegeable.

Originally posted by Darkwing
Say, where did Dezoris go to anyway? He was real knowlegeable. He still comes around sometimes... ;)

hmm...turbo for 0-60 acceleration? i thought turbos were better for top end speed, cause a turbo needs to "wind up" ("turbo-lag")
?

Originally posted by twidge
well, heads, overboring it, or a turbo are pretty much the only thing that will increase speed and acceleration while keeping streetability. you could get a racing cam, but then the idle would be unbareable.

Damn how did this post get revived? :)
Whats the topic again?

Yo I chill in the suspension forum yo, and busy with my web forum now.

But I still love AF, but only have time for the pesky springs shocks and other nuts and bolts questions.

Where have you been darkwing?

hmmm only thing i can think of without spending too much money is to reduce the weight of your car, maybe upgrade the clutch and get a short shifter so u can shift harder and faster, get semi-race tyres (nittos??) and stiffen the suspension. u dont want to be bouncing all over the road do u?

Originally posted by Dezoris
Damn how did this post get revived? :)
Whats the topic again?

Yo I chill in the suspension forum yo, and busy with my web forum now.

But I still love AF, but only have time for the pesky springs shocks and other nuts and bolts questions.

Where have you been darkwing?

Ah! there you are!

In the suspension forum eh? I havn't been in there as I haven't done any suspension yet.

Hey I just been chillin here in the civic forum. I don't have a whole lot of time for the internet anymore, too busy trying to become the yougest Junior in my college :) If I get all A's this semester I will set a record for my uni. Junior at 3.95 GPA and only 19 yrs old. Takes a hella lot of work, but I almost got it! That and juggling the rest of my life. I just pop in here to see if I can find out any cool things about my car every day or so. I am fixing to run into a load of cash (won't say where from:D) and am anxious to get me a CD changer and some better speakers for my car so they don't brat out at half power every time a bass note is played :rolleyes:

I been tweaking my car mostly, no big upgrades since the Intake. Thinking about getting some leather seat covers, theres some real nice red/black ones on E-bay front and back for $300. Whatdya'll think on that?

Originally posted by Darkwing
Thinking about getting some leather seat covers, theres some real nice red/black ones on E-bay front and back for $300. Whatdya'll think on that?
dont even think about it :apuke:

Heads? D00d, how many cylinder heads does a 4 cylinder have? Last time I checked 1! Plurals...damn V8s and their language.


Anyways, overboring is enlarging the cylinders to create more displacement - thus more torque. This is serious internal machine work and shouldn't be classified with i/h/e or simple mods. In fact, nitrous is much more simple.

I say you save up for an Integra LS motorswap. More torque than usual and pretty cheap.

Superchargers are better for torque. But, as long as you don't get too large of a turbo - u have no lag problem to worry about.