ingnition problem and pully question

Hello everyone, I'm happy to have found this wonderful little forum.

It seems that alot of people have had problems in the past similar to the one's I'm having, but there is no "and this is how the problem was solved" part of the threads (for obvious reasons) so I'm curious what happened.

I have a 94 escort wagon. A few days ago I found out that my serpentine belt (I belive this is the same as the drive belt, I'm a little bit out of practice, but serpentine is what the mechanic called it and in the hanes it seems to be saying drive belt in the same place, but in case I'm wrong I figured I'm be clear) is having issues due to the pully by the tensior. I noticed other people talking about this issue on thier cars and so I wanted to hear what people found the problem to be and how it was fixed.

This has been put on the back burner at the moment because my car won't start. The celenoid clicks, which says starter to me, but it starts fine when jumped. I replaced the battery and cleaned the terminals. It still starts only when jumped. I went down to Les Shwab and had them check things out and they said that the entire system checked out at the right voltage. A friend of mine thinks it likely is still the starter, and the connections are just working better when the car is warm, so that's my guess at this point. I see that alot of people have had similar problems with thier escorts in the past so I wanted to hear from those folks and see if there's something I'm not thinking of.

Also, could my belt problem be affecting my starting problem?

What exactly is the problem with the belt and pulley? You never got around to saying...

The belt is slipping on the pully and causing excess wear, as well as alot of noise and such. The mechanic I talked to said that it was a problem with the pully, and honestly I haven't had much time to take a good look at it. It could be that it is an issue with the tensior and he was just covering his ass as he just replaced the belt 6 months ago and I was going to him to ask why something that was so recently replaced was bad again.

On the car note, something very strange has happened. My car has started starting again. I had it diagnosed at Les Shwab and they said there was nothing wrong with the electrical system, that everything had the right voltage. Now I drove the car last night for a good half hour on the freeway to make sure the battery wasn't just uncharged and as soon as I turned it off it wouldn't start up again. Today I got a jump to get it to Shwab's and let it idle in the parking lot while I was waiting for the check because I didn't think it would start again, but it started up after thier guy turned the engine off. I figured it had to do with the fact that the car was really warm, but tonight after it had sit for a good eight hours it started up as well.

Is it reasonable for me to look at the evidence and assume the car just fixed itself?

You either have an electrical issue, or you don't. The best way to determine is to take battery voltage readings before cranking (after sitting overnight), and during cranking ... and after cranking (hopefully running).

If you don't have electrical issues, you may have some excessive drag on the belt ... faulty ac compressor, faulty power strg pump, etc. You could test this by temp removing the belt ... but don't drive this way ... only test.

From the details you've given us, it would seem that your car starts sometimes on its own battery but then other times it doesn't - but it always starts when another battery is connected for a jump-start. That would fit in with what 12Ounce was saying about maybe having excessive drag.

Your battery is rated at 12V, and probably around 60AH (Amp-Hour). When you connect jumper leads from another vehicle, that battery's capacity is added to your own, so if, for example, it is also 12V, 60AH then you effectively create a new battery of 12V, 120AH capacity - therefore it can supply double the current and thus have a much better chance of overcoming any excessive drag, if it exists. I think 12Ounce may be on to something there so take his advice and check for excessive drag on the belt.

If everything there proves to be free-running then you'll probably have to start looking for an electrical fault. Just to add some detail to 12Ounce's post - the voltages you would expect from a healthy battery are these:
1. After sitting overnight but before starting engine: 12.6V
2. During cranking when starting engine: : around 10V, maybe as low as 9.5V but no lower than that.
3. With engine idling: thirteen-point-something volts, typically around 13.6V
4. On revving the engine, that should climb to around 14.2V and then hold steady at that voltage regardless of further increase in engine speed.The significance of those readings is as follows:
1. This tells you that you don't have any excessive current drain when the car is left for a period of hours with the ignition switch in the 'Off' position (i.e. normal parking).
2. This tells you that the starter motor, engine, and belt-driven accessories are all apparently rotating freely (no excessive drag), and it also indicates that the battery internal resistance is still within acceptable limits.
3. This tells you that the electrical path from alternator to battery is intact and that the battery is receiving a charging current. Also indicates that the alternator is producing that output current and that the rectifier is functioning (converting AC to DC).
4. This tells you that the voltage regulator is doing its job properly, and clamping the voltage at the correct level.Good luck, and let us know if anything new arises which may help in making a diagnosis.

I have a 92 Escort, with a similar starting problem. It has the 1.9 gasoline engine. It will start about half the time in the normal way. The rest of the time I get only an audible click (which I can hear from inside the car), when I turn the key to the 'start' position but the starter doesnt operate. The indicator lights across the bottom of the instrument panel dim slightly also. I have concluded it is time to replace the ignition switch, since after some wiggling and cursing, it then starts. I thought it might have been a bad neutral-safety switch, so changed it with one from a junkyard. This made no difference. I ran a piece of insulated wire (about 14 gauge) directly from the small terminal on the solenoid atop the starter over to where it will reach the + battery terminal. If I get tired wiggling the ignition switch, I leave the ign. in the 'on position. I open the hood, and touch my 14 gauge wire to the positive terminal of the battery. The starter immediately works and the engine starts. I have not needed a jump start - yet.
My Escort has 198,000 on it, and was doing this same stunt about 8 years ago. We replaced the starter at the time, which didnt fix the problem, then we replaced the ignition switch; which did solve the problem. We didnt replace the neutral safety switch because it was very expensive. Still is.

To rephrase: I hear a relay clicking, but I am guessing it is related to something else, like the fuel pump, not to the starter. If the new ignition switch doesnt solve it, I will be adding a 12 volt 30 amp relay under the hood to connect my piece of wire from battery to starter solenoid. Most any parts store will have the relay and socket. I will run small wires into the dashboard, and add a momentary switch to use to make the starter work.
As for your serpentine belt: It would have no effect on the starting. I would advise replacing both the tensioner pulley, and the idler pulley however, and having a close look to make sure the pulleys are all lined up. A pulley being off by even a millimeter will wear the belts out in weeks or months, instead of years. I was not able to unscrew the idler pulley mounting bolt from mine, until I heated up the aluminum of that engine accessory bracket locally with my acetylene torch. I put the bolt back in with an antisieze compound. Aluminum and steel can 'sieze' to each other if the alloys arent chosen carefully or no threadlocker is used.
No, your car didnt fix itself. Its just waiting for a dark and rainy night to resume the misbehavior!
Another thing that is vital on most of todays cars, is keeping the ground wires in good condition. They arejust as important at the positive wires, but are often of smaller gauge, less accessible, and its likely there will be several of them - battery to body, body to block, body to tranny, tranny to battery, block to electronics, etc. And the ground terminal on the Escorts is tiny and feeble looking - even when its in good shape.
I never play video games - I spend my time conquering the mysteries of my old cars!

Good Luck with yours...

Thank you all for your suggestions. I'll see about getting ahold of a meter and testing it. I know that my car has "normal" readings according to Les Shwab when it's idling and warm and freshly jumped, but checking the other times could be definately useful.

A friend of mine had a theory, that if my belt was slipping it was possible that my car was not charging the battery as I drove as much as it should so it was gradually wearing down to semi-dead. I'm not sure how this theory works because sometimes the car will start on a second or third try, but I also usually turn off the radio and such in case that helps so I haven't experimented much. Does this theory hold water? If so I have my draining problem and it's just a point of fixing it.

Honestly, I haven't had much chance to play with the belt. Is there any adjustments (I know that I have a tensior and it's supposed to all be automatic) I need to look and see if are made. The Hanes manual just tells how to replace pully, not any advise on checking out if it needs replacing. Also is there any tricky things I need to know about replacing it. It looks like it's in a tight spot and could be a bit of a pain. Denisond's description of his attempts sound a little frightening. Is that the sort of experience that others have had? I enjoy working on my car but there comes a point where I have to accept that I'm not equipped to take care of something and I need to know if this is that point.

The tensioner is easy to access... you just have to remove the belt and then there is a single bolt that holds it in place.
I am not sure of a certain way to check the tensioner... but I would think that if you can wiggle it and find excessive play, then it would be bad. The spring should keep it firmly in place. Even with the belt on... just grab hold and try to rock it a bit. It shouldn't move... not easily anyway.

To remove the bolt for the belt tensioner assembly, it may be easier if you unbolt the motor mount and raise the engine an inch or two, using a jack lifting the oil pan. Be sure to put something on the jack to distribute the load, so you dont crack that aluminum alloy oil pan. Whether you need to do this or not may depend on the year. On my 92 I can get the bolt out without raising the motor, but raising the motor makes it a little easier - especially when getting the bolt started back in. On later years there may be things in the way, like the power steering line or refrigerant hose.
On mine there are two ways to unbolt the motor mount - by taking out the through-bolt, or by removing an antivibration weight, and undoing two large nuts.

The tensioner is easy to access... you just have to remove the belt and then there is a single bolt that holds it in place.
I am not sure of a certain way to check the tensioner... but I would think that if you can wiggle it and find excessive play, then it would be bad. The spring should keep it firmly in place. Even with the belt on... just grab hold and try to rock it a bit. It shouldn't move... not easily anyway.

How long is the bolt? It only has a couple inches clearance from the frame, so that will tell me if the engine needs lifting.

Also, what does everyone think of the theory that my alternator may not be charging the battery as well as usual and that may be why every so often the car decides not to start, but a jump (and sufficient time sitting idling) makes it all better. I have noticed that I only have problems when I've been making several short trips, and that gives the theory wieght. Has anyone heard of this being the cause for a starting problem? I've heard mixed answers to this question from different people.

I wouldnt think a weak alternator not properly charging the batter is the basis of your starting problem. I would vote for the starter not having good clean contacts inside the starter solenoid.
The bolt for the tensioner is about 2 or 2-1/8th inches long. By the time you have unscrewed it about 3/4 inch, it should be almost ready to be free of the bracket it screws into. (Thats the engine accessory mount bracket on mine.) Sometimes I can un-do the bolt, and the bolt and the tensioner assembly will come up with a light pull; but it rubs the side of the body at that point.