Fixing the clutch yourself? Parts source?

Somewhere on this forum someone told me where to order the "Clutch Kit" to
replace the clutch plate, throwout bearing and 'stuff'....

My transmish makes a grinding noise that disappears when the clutch is
pushed in and comes back when it is let out. Getting louder....

I think the throwout bearing is going T.U. Can I expect a catastrostroke ?

I've been searching for that link, but can't find it.

I think it was burried within a non-obvious thread.

Can anyone tell me where/what the place is to order the Clutch Kit ?

Or even the thread/post it is in !

If I remember, it costs about $125 for the '93 Geo Metro 3 banger 5 speed.

Once I have it, I'll put the link in the Parts List at the beginning of this forum and promptly order the goods.

DoctorBill

PS - This is a 6/12/07 EDIT - this was resolved. Go to my 6/12/07 2:46 PM post to see what happened.

try your local schucks, seems to me they run just over $100. and if something does let go you just won't be able to shift

Here is what Schuck's web site (Partsamerica.com) has....

http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductList.aspx?PartType=244&PTSet=A&SearchFor=Clutch+Set+(Plate%2c+Disc%2c+Bearing)

Which Kit is better? The FENCO for $102.99.....or.......the Perfection for $112.88 ?

BTW - take the printout to Schuck's or they will charge you the "Store Price" which
can be maybe 25% higher!

Anyway - someone listed a link to obtain the Kit by mail order - so I'll compare, also!

If the throwout bearing (Ball Bearings or Roller Bearings?) starts to spall or go dry
nothing will break off like a wrench in the machinery and break something,
will it ?

Parts of my clutch and transmission housing won't drop out on the road?

When I drop the transmission to replace the clutch components, will the
engine need to be supported with a jack?

Can I really screw the pooch doing this myself? Remember how clutzy I was
doing the Rings and Head...?

DoctorBill

some of the kits are remans and some are new. its up to you what one you want. take a look at both and make sure the clutch disc has springs in the middle and not rubber pucks, have seen them fail before. to hold engine up i run a board from rad support to firewall next to wipers and hook a chan to the engine puller hook on rear of engine attached to exhaust manifold. you have to lower tranny about 3" in rear to get it out from uder car so take that into account when fastening chain. you should be able to do it yourself but a good rolling floor jack and a concrete surface to do it on are a big help. if it does fail its possible it could snap the sleeve that the throwout bearing rides on but unlikely. while you have it out might as well replace the rear main seall as well. you will need to pull the flywheel off to replace the pilot bearing anyway

I did some Web Searching on these two Kits.

Fenco is a Canadian Firm:

Fenwick Automotive
1100 Caledonia road
Toronto, Ontario M6A 2W5
Canada

http://www.fencoparts.com/index2.htm

The Schucks Web Site and Fenco says the parts are NEW.

Perfection is a US Company:

Perfection Clutch
100 Perfection Way,
Timmonsville, South Carolina 29161
Phone: 843.326.5544
Fax: 843.326.5581

http://www.perfectionclutch.com/clutch.html

Schucks and the web site says all new parts.

Pictures of both show springs in the center of the clutch plate.

Be'in as aaahm a "good 'ol boy', ah'm guessin' aahl buys me the 'merican kit....ya know?

Actually I was born in Kansas! Guess I'm a Yankee....penny pinching & thrifty.

DoctorBill

PS - does anyone know of a good web link showing how to replace the clutch plate, etc
that has some pictures? Too much to hope it is on a Metro?

Problems.....

I printed out the Schuck's Web Site items I mentioned in the previous post, then
called a local Schuck's Store to order the Perfection Kit (MU20211).

On his computer, part number MU20211 comes up SPX - not Perfection!

Who the hell is "SPX" ? Is it American Made or .......Chinese?

They wanted $198.99 for the Kit, but will only charge me $112.88 since they
have to honor the Web price for MU20211 even though it is a different manufacturer.

I went on the NAPA PARTS web site and one of the various Clutch Kits has the
same part number - NNCMU20211 and they want $139....no Manufacturer's name.

SPX is some HUMONGOUS Corporation (Oil) with "OTC" as a sub-corp selling
Auto Parts...

But try to find them on the Internet! SPX's web site is more interested in
showing you their STOCK sales...

Can't find the "OTC" branch....

I suppose I'll buy the SPX Kit - it just pisses me off when these car parts
places switch parts manufacturers faster than a Carnie Side Show in Hoboken.

Schuck's Rear main seal goes for $19 SKF 26749.

Schuck's store Computer shows a Beck-Arnley Clutch Kit, but since it doesn't
show up on the web site, I'd have to pay the 2x price at the store!

Buyer beware! If you buy Schucks parts - get on their web site FIRST and
find the part. Print out the page.

You'll pay 50% for the part if you present them with the printout!

In the long run - you could save many hundreds of dollars (Crvett69!).

DoctorBill

Ebay has an Exedy kit which I think I saw referred to as the same as OEM:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-1997-Geo-Metro-Exedy-Clutch-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33730QQihZ013QQitem Z230140837438QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


http://www.clutchkitcenter.com/media/images/clutchkit/04124/kit04124.jpg


Hope this helps

I guess I'll buy the Schuck's Kit since the shipping from E-Bay and the time waiting is not going to save me much.

I wonder if the SPX Kit is made in America or China...? Isn't everything made in China?!

Also, if something is bad, I can go back to Schuck's and they'll make it right.

Just wish these corporate folks would get it right on their web site vs the store.

DAIKIN INDUSTRIES is Japanese - should be good parts!

Except these days DAIKIN could be being supplied by the Chinese and labeling it Japanese.

DoctorBill

FWIW, the kit is shipped from Yakima, WA though I don't know how far that is from you. I didn't have to wait but a couple of days. But you know what?

I did a google search on "Exedy clutch, China" and here's what came up:

http://www.automotiveworld.com/ACM/content.asp?contentid=61042

I looked over the box and didn't see any country of origin that was readily apparent. Very well could be Chinese. That was about the last thing that entered my mind as I thought they didn't get along so well.

Live and learn I guess. I'll look again in the morning as it's kind of late and I'm bleary and weary. http://www.world-of-smilies.com/html/images/smilies/computer/attachment-190.gif

While you can replace the pilot bearing without pulling the flywheel, it is extremely silly not to remove the flywheel and have it machined (like you would a brake rotor). If you have the technical ability to R&R rings and pistons, you have the capacity to do a clutch job, not much to screw up. You may find it a bit tricky to get the new throw-out bearing seated properly for your first time, but after some experimenting you'll find the technique. It is a bit laborious, you will need to jossle the transmission away from the engine, and jossle it back against the engine, which can requires a degree of elbow grease. But I've got faith in ya Doc. Get that flywheel machined, clean everything real well w/brake cleaner, lube up the sleeve that the thow-out bearing rides on, torque everything properly, and be sure to adjust the cable properly after-wards and you're good to go. FWIW - the duralast clutches I've gotten from Autozone have performed and lasted quite well for just over $100.

PS - Be sure to have provisions on hand for a nasty gear oil spill for when you are positioning that transmision out of the car... I always seem to make a good mess.. even after draining the gear oil.

I am a bit reluctant to ask this, but I never learned anything by hesitating to
ask questions. Probably to those who have taken a clutch apart, how it works
is obvious - will be to me afterwards. Kind of like sex - a big mystery at
first, but nothing complex afterward....Ha! Right!

I am wondering why the Flywheel needs machining? Here's why....

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/9049/chiltonclutchdiagram72jy8.jpg

The device I am have trouble picturing - as it works - is the Pressure plate
(or Clutch Cover in Chilton p 7-7 drawing) - with the 18 metal fingers pointing
toward the center.

That also appears to have an inner ring surface that contacts the clutch plate.

I am trying to picture how all this works. Step by step....

1. When the clutch Pedal is out , the Throwout Bearing rides on the 18 fingers
on the pressure plate and spins with no load on the spindle - yes.

2. The clutch plate is pressed against the inside of the pressure plate transferring power
from the engine Pressure plate/Flywheel to the transmission thru the shaft the clutch plate
rides on - yes? But what, then, forces the clutch plate against the pressure plate...?????

3. When the Clutch Pedal is pushed in, the Throwout Bearing pushes against
the 18 metal finger springs on the pressure plate and pushes the Clutch Plate
off of the Inside of the Pressure Plate - thus disengaging the engine from the
transmission - right? Throwout bearing is under heavy load.....

4. The bearings in the Throwout bearing spin with the Clutch Plate but the
Clutch Plate makes no contact with the Pressure Plate.

5. The Pressure Plate is bolted to the Flywheel - right?

6. But the clutch plate never contacts the Flywheel itself - yes?

If I am correct, what does the flywheel have to do with the Clutch wear?
Wouldn't that "unbalance" it.....?

I seem to be missing the spring force that holds the clutch plate against the pressure plate...

I would love to see a movie or animation of how a manual clutch works.

DoctorBill

There is an old saying (that I think I started) that goes,
"Ignorance is expensive"

I was about a mile from Schuck's this morning ready to buy the Clutch Kit.

Not wanting to drop the Transmission while lying on my back with crap falling
in my eyes, I decided to turn right and drive the 5 miles to "ClutchLand where
I had my wife's '93 Geo tracker clutch job done and talk to someone who
knows WTF he's talking about.....

I did my homework before trying to "fix" the car.....

I described the noise my engine makes in neutral and the fact that it disappears
when I press the clutch pedal in.

He said it is my Transmission!

The Throwout Bearing doesn't turn until the clutch pedal is pushed in...

Therefore, the noise cannot be coming from the throwout bearing because
when the pedal is out, the Throwout Bearing in not turning.....

When I told him I had just this Winter put in new 80W-90 Transmission Oil,
he smiled and said, "Well there you go!" Way too heavy an oil.......

He said they usually use 40 weight oil in their transmissions.

IT ALL JIVES NOW!

This crappy noise (like an electric drill's gear reduction unit) started after I
drained and refilled the Transmission with the weight recommended in the
Chilton Manual - 80W-90.

The noise is bad when it is cold out.

Today was HOT and the noise is not there!

I have no clutch problem - I have too heavy an oil in the gearbox!

So - I will use my piston sucker oil transfer device and remove about one
quart of that 90 weight stuff and add one quart of 40 weight synthetic
non-detergent motor oil.

How do you like them apples!?

DoctorBill

i use 85w90 in all my transmissions in the metros and have never had a problem with it, heavier oil might make it harder to shift when its cold but it will make tranny quieter not noisier. even the book recomends 85w90. 40w seems a little light. you can try draining it and refilling it with 40w but i doubt it solves your problem unless its dry

Well, first I'll try the 50:50 mix of 80W-90 and 50W motor oil.

Shouldn't hurt it I imagine.....if the shop uses 40W in their Transmissions, at
least it won't catastrophically destroy the Transmission.

This might be a good time to try that "LUCAS" sticky oil they sell in Auto Supply Shops
for adding to engine and transmission oil.
http://www.lucasoil.com/testimonials/index.sd?catid=6

I suspect anyone in normally warm weather doesn't have this problem.

God knows what the previous owner(s) had done with this car....the shop guy
mentioned that.

I think I need some lighter oil present to keep the system well lubed until the
temp builds up after running a while - especially in winter.

My engine takes forever to get hot! An engine with a small mass to area ratio.
Fast heat loser. Cools down real quick when turned off.

DoctorBill

the lucas stuff is like motor honey, its real thick. will make oil seem like 120w

I would love to see a movie or animation of how a manual clutch works.

DoctorBill

Here ya go doc!! http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch1.htm ... Scroll down to "diaphram clutch" and watch the animation. This gives you a perfect example of what's going on in there.

Doc, I installed a complete Exedy clutch kit in my 94 Metro last year. These are good clutch kits!.....Manufacturing country of origin was Japan on mine. I got it from these guys...They shipped fast!...$101.00 total shipped to the door

EXEDY 89-00 GEO CHEVY METRO NEW 1.0 L Clutch Kit (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/EXEDY-89-00-GEO-CHEVY-METRO-NEW-1-0-L-Clutch-Kit_W0QQitemZ150129621548QQihZ005QQcategoryZ33730Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

Damn - 91Caprice9c1 !!!

That is a nice animation of how a manual clutch works....

That is not how I thought it worked!

OK!

It would be nice if one could copy out that gif animation and post it here.
Probably copyright infringement to do so....

I should get ahold of the used parts to visualize that sequence.

The pressure plate is more complex than I had realized and does a lot more
than I thought.

Nothing like an animation.

I am going to go into that site further to see if it explains how an Automatic
Transmission works....now that is just plain and simple Magic!

Thanks again...understanding is everything!

DoctorBill

PS - Just looked at the Automatic Transmission part - still very complex!
It is amazing what Engineers can accomplish! I stand in awe!

So you see now why having the flywheel machined is important to clutch longevity and optimum operation.

MechanicMatt

A month or so ago I replaced the engine in my '95 Metro 1.0L 5-speed with a JDM. I was unable to removed just the engine - not enough clearance. I had to bolt the engine back to the transaxle and then remove those two as an assembly from the car. Lot of swearing involved.

But, that's not what you're needing to do. I ended up buying a transmission jack from Harbor Freight Tools for $99 (impulsive buy). I've heard Auto Zone with loans out tools. Maybe they will loan out a transmission jack. Assuming you have this store chain in your area.

I used the jack to support the transaxle while using my engine hoist to hold the engine in level position. Did all this so I could pass the transaxle shaft back throught the clutch and bolt the assembly back together so that I could then take it all out of the car.

I wonder about adjusting the clutch cable when all it done. It can be adjusted so that the throw out bearing is not touching the clutch fingers, or just touching them. Which is better/recommended?

And transaxle lube - I put in 75W-90 GL5. The Geo OEM Repair Manual says this is what to use.

I wonder about adjusting the clutch cable when all it done. It can be adjusted so that the throw out bearing is not touching the clutch fingers, or just touching them. Which is better/recommended?


You want to adjust the clutch so that the pedal has a bit of play in it. What has worked well for me and my metros is adjusting the cable such that the lever it attaches to at the transmission has about a half-inch of play. You do not want the throw-out bearing riding on the pressure plate.

Yes, I highly recommend the article on howstuffworks.com on automatics. The animations of the planetary gearset is very good. The only thing as I recall is that the article is based on a fully hydraulic transmission (in the days when instead of a TCM, the valve body was also the computer as well as the hydraulic system) and I don't think the article addresses things like shift solenoids, EPC, PWM and so on as found in today's electronic transmissions. But still it is a good read.