5th Gen Prelude VS M3

what does everyone think? 5th generation (1998) 5 speed prelude.....vs.....1995 automatic M3 coupe..... the stakes are at $180 as of now...... i want to be able to beat my friend.... so i can get myself a new AEM CAI =D.....ne feedback is welcome ..... thx!

Hey, welcome to AF! :D

What are we talking about for this comparo? Stock v. stock, or what? Post a pic of your ride, if you have one. :)

BTW, I'm moving this thread to the Car Comaprison forum. ;)

yea,,,, it would be stock versus stock since neither car has anything on it yet...so i need the $$ =P as for the pictures....i dont have any pictures as of yet, but i'm going to try to get a digi cam soon and get some pics of my ride.......its milano red.....no wing......stock base prelude rims......etc etc.....thx

M3 is a tuned German sports car dont even bother with racing just look at the specs stock

M3
horsepower 333
torque 262
weight 3415

prelude
horsepower 200
torque 156
weight 3042

the specs should tell you who would win

WHOA THERE...
95 M3
READ HIS POST... SHOULD BE AT LEAST CLOSE WITH AN AUTO CAR WITH 240ISH AND RWD... VS THE 200 STICK FWD...
TQ IS A FACTOR... JUST DONT GIVE UP UP HIGH IN THE GEARS...

Originally posted by flylwsi
WHOA THERE...
95 M3
READ HIS POST... SHOULD BE AT LEAST CLOSE WITH AN AUTO CAR WITH 240ISH AND RWD... VS THE 200 STICK FWD...
TQ IS A FACTOR... JUST DONT GIVE UP UP HIGH IN THE GEARS...
didnt notice the 95 m3 but its real wheel drive and is better at laying done power for drag racing the preludes lack of torque is its problem honda has high horse numbers but no torque in most of there cars for some reason

exactly...
so if you are draggin it, you'll lose..
if you are running start to a top speed on a prespecified stretch of hwy...
you could win
so if you started at one entrance ramp to a specified one on the freeway, that could be the way to race him... that brings it down to who is a better driver

Yeah, you should start from a roll if you want better chances:) It could be close.

even with all those different strategies, i dont think it will even be close.

i was simply pointing out that it is possible, under the right circumstances to beat out an m3 w/ a prelude if it is not a "perfect" environment (dragstrip)
if there are other things involved, weather, cars, etc... all of which are not safe, but hey... street racing isnt... know what i mean?

i know exactly what you mean. but stock to stock i dont think it would be close because of the superiority of the M3.

i guess it really depends on the driver when you look at the everday freeway manueverability thing... especially when you are racin...
like i took my friends awd talon turbo w/my 89 lude... i have the skills, he has the car... i won... he shoulda stomped me... and we were runnin around 100 at 2am on the deserted freeway... so it is possible... just not a huge possibility

I wouldn't even try, that M3 will run 14s stock in the 1/4.

if you were modded you would be close, but stock Vs. stock would be really tough

Not tough, but impossible. Don't do it. This has already happened before. I was riding in an Eagle Talon TSi AWD, and we were neck and neck with the E36 M3. We had another friend following in a Prelude 5-speed and we lost sight of it shortly. This took place from a standstill onto the freeway and there was no chance for the Prelude. We met up with our Prelude friend afterwards and had to call him on the cell phone because we had no idea where he was.

yeah but his friends M3 is an auto... that's a bit slower

but still you'd need some mods to get to his level

when you consider an auto slower though, it is only by tenths of a second... the lude has to make up almost a second... the auto wont slow it down that much. if it was a upshift/downshift race, the lude could MAYBE take it...
but remember... drag racing is more consistent with an auto. braketorque it. end of story. the stick is harder to launch, and if you miss a gear... the auto will not ever miss a gear. and an m3 auto is a bit more aggressive than the 3 class auto tranny...
sooooo....
stock vs. stock, you better just give him the money...

E36 M3 had the first generation SMG which were not very fast responding.

The bimmer automatically has 2 cylinders on the Prelude, as well as displacement. Electronic trickery has made Honda famous, but it really can't catch up to raw size in stock form. At highway speeds, the Prelude should be dust.

One question:
Does anyone know the electronically governed limit for the top speed of E36 M3s?

i do believe its 137 MPH

you can just install a chip to take that off right?

ya, its fairly easy too.

donno, by the time the M3 reaches 100mph and no prelude in the rear view mirror, it might fall apart, considering its a 6 year old car... bmw's last no more than 3year like domestics imo. after the 3rd year, it's payup time to the dealers for service. hehehehe. :D

what the crap are you talking about!! BMW's last for a long time!! i dont know what you've been smokin...

Originally posted by hermunn123
what the crap are you talking about!! BMW's last for a long time!! i dont know what you've been smokin...

i think kenchan's been smokin a lil to much crack

Just another biased japanese product loyalist who knows nothing more than over-hyped fiction.

Now think this: Which car was designed to mill around in the triple digit area? The Prelude, an economic sporty coupe, or the M3, a detuned racecar designed with the likes of Le mans competitors in mind? Le mans = endurance. Endurance = reliability. Enough said about that.

i have to disagree.
the m3 is not a detuned race car per se. the m3 in the alms etc is a supertuned street car. the m3 roadcar came out b4 the race cars. so it is the other way around. but you are still right

I knew someone was going to say that. The reason I said detuned was because of the new M3 GTRs. I would have stated it the other way around, but technically as of now, the street inline-6 powered M3 IS a detuned version of the V-8 M3 GTR (which I still feel is unfair for Porsche, not actually producing any road going V-8 powered M3s as mandated by Le Mans guidelines).

But yeah, we know what we mean.

The lude would lose, nuff said.

Originally posted by flylwsi
the m3 roadcar came out b4 the race cars. so it is the other way around.

Ah, I see what you are saying... I was thinking of 'detuned' in a different aspect. But I get ya.

man! the prelude would grab its ankles on that race!!

exactly...
im not saying that its not a detuned racecar...
i meant literally...
it is pretty much a detuned racer.
but im saying that really all the cars in the class w/ the porsches are all tuned m3 street cars.
and the m3 gtr is in the gt class, not the same class as the porsche, i cant think of the name right now...
but they are in different classes...
the gtr runs w/ the vettes etc...

Really? Who are the M3 GTR's competitors? I thought I just watched an ALMS race with BMW and Porsche on the same scoreboard. Plus, I've been reading about how Porsche is pissing their pants because the 911 GT3s can't keep up with the new M3s. Maybe I'm just tripping..

ya, what are you talking about flylwsi??

Some of you guys talk about an automatic M3 as being like a race horse with a broken leg. i've been in a 98 auto M3 and trust me, i had the best abdominal workout of my life after that just trying to lean forward. the M3 would win no questions asked!

i've only been in a standard M3... :( j/k

to answer your question(to whoever started this),

DON'T RACE THE M3 UNLESS YOU LIKE GETTING TORN UP NASTILY

the m3 gtr races in the gt class... the reg m3 w/ the i6 races the porsches...
this is from www.overboost.com
"At Sears Point it was the number 42 BMW Motorsport M3 GTR driven by Finland's JJ Lehto and Germany's Jörg Müller that took the checker in the GT Class. On the last turn of the last lap Sweden's Fredrik Ekblom, driving the number 43 BMW Motorsport car (shared with Germany's Dirk Müller) made a questionable pass that involved some serious contact with Hans Stuck in the number 6 BMW Team PTG M3"
so they run in the gt class. thanks...

...thank you. we already knew that. you said the GTR didn't run with the porsche's and that it did run with the vettes. i still have no clue what you are talking about.

it does not run in the same class(points class). it runs in the same races, but not in the same division that the porsches run in. the regular m3s are in the same class as the porsche gt3s. what else do you need? that is what i meant?

basically, someonesaid that they saw the gtr at the alms race...
so, yes, they do... not in that division w/ the gt3s. see what i mean?

Yeah, BMW Motorsports' M3 GTRs compete in the GT class of the ALMS, with drivers Dirk Müller, Fredrik Ekblom, JJ Lehto, and Jörg Müller.

Alex Job Racing also competes in the same GT class, with Porsche 911 GT3 RSs. Broadfood Racing runs 911 GT3 Rs in the GT class. Cirtek Motorsport uses 911 GT3 Rs in the GT class. Dick Barbour Racing uses 911 GT3 RSs in the GT class as well. Freisinger Motorsport uses Porsche 911 GT3 RSs for the GT class. Harlow Motorsports runs 911 GT3 Rs for the GT class. Jürgen Alzen Motorsport runs 911 GT3 Rs for the GT class. Kelly Moss runs the 911 GT3 Rs for the GT class. Kyser Racing uses 911 GT3 Rs for the GT class. Larbre Competition uses 911 GT3 RSs for the GT class. This names about half of the Porsche driven competitors in the GT class. Need I say more?

Some intriguing information from the Porsche Corporate Website:

"MONTEREY, Calif – Sept 9, 2001 – Sascha Maassen, from Aachen, Germany, continued to nip at the heels of the factory BMW V8s by putting his Alex Job Racing McKenna Porsche 911 GT3 RS third on the GT grid for Sunday’s Monterey Sports Car Championships at Laguna Seca Raceway.

Maassen, who grabbed the pole two weeks ago at Mid-Ohio, moved from seventh to third place in the qualifying session, but the 20-minute session was cut in half after the #6 BMW V8 caught fire and forced a ten-minute yellow flag, limiting everyone’s opportunity to better their times.

“Our cars were set up just right today, and we are pleased to be only thousandths of a second from second position and a couple of tenths from the pole,” said team owner Alex Job. “After the practice sessions yesterday, we were very discouraged and well off the pace, but hard work by the McKenna Porsche crew overnight, and some hard driving by Sascha gave us this position. We hope to stay within striking distance of the factory BMWs during the race, and be in position to win at the end.”

The two PTG BMWs were fourth and fifth behind the Maassen/Luhr Porsche, with the other team Alex Job Racing McKenna Porsche 911 GT3 RS racer of Randy Pobst/Christian Menzel sixth.

The Petersen Motorsports/White Lightning Porsche 911 GT3 RS, co-driven by England’s Johnny Mowlem and Germany’s Timo Bernhard, qualified seventh after Bernhard had run third through a good part of the session.

Other Porsche 911 GT3 RS qualifiers included The Racers Group entry of Kevin Buckler/Tyler McQuarrie (eighth); the Kyser Racing Porsche of Kye Wankum/Joe Foster (ninth); the other Racers Group Porsche of Robert Orcutt/Tony Colicchio (tenth); the Dick Barbour Racing entry of Mark Neuhaus/Randy Wars (11th), and the Canadian-based Seikel Motorsports car, with Tony Burgess/Andrew Bagnall (12th).

The ALMS Monterey Sports Car Championships will be telecast live on the NBC television network starting at 4:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time on Sunday, September 9 (check local listings for the exact time and channel in your area). The race will also be broadcast live on the American Le Mans Radio Network, which can be accessed on the Web at www.americanlemans.com. That same American Le Mans Series Web site will also have live timing and scoring during the race event.

The official Porsche Web site – www.porsche.com – will have qualifying information on the ALMS Monterey Sports Car Championships for all the Porsches entered, and will file stories and photos during and after the race. Porsche Web site users should choose “North America” on the home page when prompted to choose a country, then choose “motorsports,” then “motorsport news” to find the ALMS updates.

Other Web sites that will follow the overall event include the American Le Mans site mentioned above, TotalMotorsport (www.totalmotorsport.com); The Race Site (www.theRaceSite.com), the Speedvision site (www.speedvision.com), Motorsport.com (www.motorsport.com) and the CompuServe site (www.motorsportsforum.com)."

Further doubts that the Porsches compete in the GT class against the M3 GTRs? Check Porsches corporate website, 911 GT3 RS page (http://www.us.porsche.com/national/motorsports/race/currentmodels/gt3rs.htm).

i'll admit that i am down a peg here
and i am givin up on this arguement.

i still have no clue as to what you were trying to argue. that the porsche's did not run in the same class as the GTR's??

from what i read, all the articles available, i was under the impression that the v8 m3s were in a separate class as compared to the porsche. i was under the assumption that they were runnin the vettes and vipers, as compared to the i6 m3s that run the porsches... i guess it depends on what race series...
but i was under the wrong assumption... and you know what happens when one assumes... :uhoh:

oh ok. i tried and tried but i had no idea what you were trying to argue. the M3 GTR runs with the porsche's, not the vettes. although porsche would probably rather BMW run with the vettes...

Speaking of Vettes and Vipers, there's some talk going about a Ferrari 550 entry competing in the GTS class, much like the 550s in the FIA GT series. Now wouldn't that mix things up a bit...

the 550 is going to be in Petit LeMans in the GTS category. a 360 modena will be in the GT category... now that will stir some things up!

Wow! A 360?! Now that's hot news. I just saw a 360 racer in the Beverly Hills Ferrari showroom window today while passing by. Talk about ::drool::

Yeah word has it Prodrive will be using the 550s... In the FIA GT Championships, the Ferrari was a winner. I wonder if the specs will remain the same.

Nissan could possibly return to Le Mans in the GT class with a new Z racer, as well. Nice to see some much needed competetion at Le Mans. Of course, the prototypes need some heat with the factory Audi's consistent one two finishes.

I found some information concerning Nissan's possible entry into the ALMS GT class with their new Z, and posted it at this thread (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t8143.html).

flylwsi you definately do not know what the crap you are talking about. The prelude would get its butt kicked racing a bmw. especially a m3. next time think before you write something.

dude, what the fuck are you talking about?
did you read any of my shiet here? i said it is possible. given the right format, a fucking yugo could beat it. highly unlikely, but it is possible.
you are an asshole man.
what the fuck.
did you read that at all?
did i make a statement that says, "the lude will kick the shit out of the m3"?
no.
i dont think so
i said it could happen.
damn.

read what i say before you talk some shit.
you are the fucker that doesnt know crap.
and i dont apologize if i offend you. ignorance is bliss, you should be smiling.

Originally posted by whiteboy
flylwsi you definately do not know what the crap you are talking about. The prelude would get its butt kicked racing a bmw. especially a m3. next time think before you write something.

wtf?! he said that the M3 would easily beat the prelude... but it is possible for the prelude to win, givin the right conditions, like the examples

flylwsi is right... don't flame like that, he didn't say anythin to diss you (well before your post) so don't diss him :)

thank you mr gangstarr...
:silly2:

Personal insults are not tolerated on AF, and this does apply to everyone. Try to be careful when reading information posted previously. And if someone does misread information, know that people make mistakes, and that simple correction should suffice.

Flylwsi is right about the "given the right format" winning strategy. When it comes to street racing, there are no set standards, and yes even a Prelude could beat an M3. Example: I finished three car lengths ahead of a bimmer 325is once with a Camry V-6 LE. The 325s always got a better jump off the line than me since it's rear-wheel-drive (and not to mention has a smoother quicker engine, has good balance, and traction, etc.) but the other party had a full laden weight of four additional passengers, and this guy didn't know how to launch his automatic. So you see, there is an infinite number of variables in street racing making, whereas on the strip, the set environment IS the control as in any scientific test.

I agree. A prelude doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning unless some major modifications have been done. One question, though- In the race between the M3 and the Eagle Talon tsi, just how close is "neck and neck". Who won? I've always assumed that, once up and moving, an M3 would wear out a Talon. Then again, I've never driven either of them. I just know that the old Eclipse turbo would do 60 in about 6.5-6.8 right b4 they ended production, whereas the M3 auto could do it in about 6.3. The manual could do it in under 6. I saw a few times as low as 5.6. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Your presumptions are completely correct MclarenF1; the M3 should have eaten us alive, especially since he had only himself, the driver, while the Eagle had 2 passengers plus the driver. We ended up finishing him off after a few quick 'box-ins' with some regular freeway drivers, but the BMW would always out-accelerate us in an even pull on the highway. Like I said before, it doesn't have to do with the cars in a street race; conditions, and driver DO matter.

How about a lude running on 14psi boost???

who revived this old thread? anyway a lude running 14psi would make over 300 hp at the wheels which is waaaay more then the M3 makes at the crank. the problem is since its a front wheel drive, any gear below 3rd is goin to have traction problems. you will spin first and second no problem. my friend has a turbo integra LS only running 8 psi and he spins second from a roll if he floors it. and him and my friend with a evo 8 raced from a roll and he only lost by a bumper.