suspension

i have a 94 caprice classic with a 5.7L 350 engine...what can i do to tighten up the suspension...i was looking at a drop kit of about 1 inch but it runs about 1,000 bucks for shocks, springs and shorter arms and im not sure if this would be what i am loking for anyways...the other day i got on it at a light and took a left and my buddy behind me said it looked like i was going to roll over....is there anything that can be done to make the ride more stiff?

i dont know how you got the 1000 dollar figure, but it shouldnt be that much unless you are looking at replacing the entire suspension.

read this
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=698472

i would recommend getting oem replacement springs for the 9c1 caprice
they will fit your car, but be stiffer and handle better.
get 9c1 shocks as well

i have KYB gas-a-just shocks and the difference is amazing


if you want to lower the car, get front lowering spindles

you can lower the rear, but i think it would look fine with a 2" front drop and the rear at stock height

if you install the parts, which you should because its easy, i cant see it going over 500 dollars or 700 max

ya i want to give it that raked look with the rear end higher than the front...thanks for the advise

the other day i got on it at a light and took a left and my buddy behind me said it looked like i was going to roll over
Even with a stock suspension, the car isn't supposed to do that. It's VERY likely that you have a broken stabilizer link. They're cheap, easy to replace, and make a HUGE difference in handling if one's broken.

i dont know how you got the 1000 dollar figure, but it shouldnt be that much unless you are looking at replacing the entire suspension.
If he's lowering the car, then the entire suspension pretty much needs replacement, in some cases even including contol arms.

well the rears should be simple spring swaps unless you are going to go crazy

if he puts 9c1 springs all around and 2" drop spindles in the front, it will look give it a raked look and you dont have to do much modifications

Shocks. Don't forget the shocks. Either 9C1 or a good variable rate shock such as the Monroe Sensatrac (what I run on my car).

On a '94 you'll want to install a full compliment of lower body mount bushings. Except for SEO vehicles, B-Cars of that vintage had several mounting locations which did not receive the lower rubber "doughnut" bushing to kill vibration and jounce. Installing bushings in every location can significantly stiffen the body and improve road feel and feedback. There are 14 mounting locations, and six of them were usually assembled without the lower bushings. The body can be lifter off the frame about an inch before the mounting bolt restricts movement.

You can find a full explanation HERE (http://www.theherd.com/articles/bushings.html)

Either 9C1 or a good variable rate shock such as the Monroe Sensatrac (what I run on my car).

Monroe Sensatrac... Thats what I'm running too. That reminds me of a recent suspension story...
On route 531 (Local express way here) I was crusin' along at about 65 MPH and this Nissan Altima comes up quick behind me, tailgaits for a little then goes around me. I see it's the 3.4 Liter, and from experience I know those are decently quick. So long story short I got up next to the car doing about 75+ (turns out it was a girl, couldn't be older than 19-20) and she took off, knowing I wanted to play. I had this girl, at first... I was at 105 MPH and climbing until the bend came. It starts gradually but becomes a little sharper towards the end. I started to turn, and felt the car lean... HARD. I had no choice but to let off and start braking. She took the bend like nothing. My Caprice had the power, but not the handling. I guess it's the price I pay for wanting to keep that floaty smooth, pillowey soft ride.

Monroe Sensatrac... Thats what I'm running too. That reminds me of a recent suspension story...
On route 531 (Local express way here) I was crusin' along at about 65 MPH and this Nissan Altima comes up quick behind me, tailgaits for a little then goes around me. I see it's the 3.4 Liter, and from experience I know those are decently quick. So long story short I got up next to the car doing about 75+ (turns out it was a girl, couldn't be older than 19-20) and she took off, knowing I wanted to play. I had this girl, at first... I was at 105 MPH and climbing until the bend came. It starts gradually but becomes a little sharper towards the end. I started to turn, and felt the car lean... HARD. I had no choice but to let off and start braking. She took the bend like nothing. My Caprice had the power, but not the handling. I guess it's the price I pay for wanting to keep that floaty smooth, pillowey soft ride.

Yes, and mine has all of the ride quality of a 1976 Silverado 4x4 - but at least it can take 25mph rated turns at freeway speed!

Hahaha, Mine can barely take freeway turn at freeway speeds, but I guess that all depends on how you percept freeway speeds :wink:.

Yes, and mine has all of the ride quality of a 1976 Silverado 4x4 - but at least it can take 25mph rated turns at freeway speed!

what is you suspension secret?

this is the second time i have heard you mention that your suspension is capable of great wonders.
what do you have under there?



right now, i am thinking of lowering the front of the car a bit
i am planning on using 9c1 gm replacement springs all around and putting drop spindles on the front
my shocks are KYB Gas-a-just and are for the 9c1 model.
i've replaced some of the suspension bushings with urethane, but what else can i do

what is you suspension secret?

this is the second time i have heard you mention that your suspension is capable of great wonders.
what do you have under there?



right now, i am thinking of lowering the front of the car a bit
i am planning on using 9c1 gm replacement springs all around and putting drop spindles on the front
my shocks are KYB Gas-a-just and are for the 9c1 model.
i've replaced some of the suspension bushings with urethane, but what else can i do

Non-stock springs, polyurethane bushings, wider tires, and a lot of setup time. The springs on the front I can't remember what those are, but the ones in the rear are "RJ" springs (8RJ, 9RJ) from a '94 9C1. They're STIFF. There's also the improved frame on the 9C1 - more bracing than stock. A stiffer frame = better handling. Think NASCAR - you don't really think those elaborate roll cages in those cars are entirely for driver safety, do you?

do you think my setup idea is a good one, or should i rethink it?

do you think my setup idea is a good one, or should i rethink it?

The largest things you can do to it (those which have the most immediate results) are the addition of an antiroll bar to the rear end, if not already equipped. If your car doesn't have the rollbar, you will have to do some lower control arm work (as in replace them) for the bar - as well as good springs and good shocks. Pay close attention to the bushings on the front antiroll bar as well - the two bushings that bolt it to the radiator support and also the end link bushings. Most of these old cars have no end link bushings (they've fallen off at some point). If your car sounds like it's dragging chain everytime you hit a bump, replace your end link bushings. Immediate effect on performance. Check and replace your control arm bushings - if you use urethane bushings here, you will feel it! If you have 'silent' kidney stones, the ride will jar them loose. I am using good rubber bushings here for that reason. My car rides rough enough as it is. Check your ball joints and replace as necessary. Check your tie rods - these can cause a softness in the steering as well as tracking problems.

If you want your front dropped, you are on the right track with dropped spindles. Lowering the car's C/G will improve handling as well, but will also make it more subject to bottoming out on rough roads.

i have replaced my end link bushings with polyeurethane ones and switched the frame bushings side to side so they will hold a bit tighter for the time being.

where should i look for 9c1 springs?
all i can find are lowering springs and i dont want lowering springs.
as for bottoming out, i usually dont have a problem with that right now with worn out stock springs.
i could of course replace my bumpstops with the zqe (or whatever) bumpstops that the impala ss guys swear by.

as for the rear swaybar, i'm not sure if i want to do that yet.
i have heard that it will drastically make it want to oversteer, and i tend to "forget" to slow down for turns... my bad.

i have replaced my end link bushings with polyeurethane ones and switched the frame bushings side to side so they will hold a bit tighter for the time being.

where should i look for 9c1 springs?
all i can find are lowering springs and i dont want lowering springs.
as for bottoming out, i usually dont have a problem with that right now with worn out stock springs.
i could of course replace my bumpstops with the zqe (or whatever) bumpstops that the impala ss guys swear by.

as for the rear swaybar, i'm not sure if i want to do that yet.
i have heard that it will drastically make it want to oversteer, and i tend to "forget" to slow down for turns... my bad.

Whoever told you that about a rear swaybar was seriously high on a mixture of coke and meth, along with a liberal dose of stupidity. The entire purpose of those is to keep the car flatter through a turn, thereby keeping more of the tires in good contact with the road, hence better handling. Remember, handling is a function of the tires hitting the road, the aim of increasing handling is to get that contact patch as large as possible through a whole range of motion.

Oversteer, or "getting loose", is how most NASCAR race winners drive their cars. You can correct the amount of oversteer through caster and camber settings on the front end, again in NASCAR terms, a "setup". Of course, if you really knew how to drive, you wouldn't worry about it as it is advantageous in getting through a low speed turn at high speed.

Don't forget about what I said of my cars handling in #9 above. My car has the rear sway bar, or antiroll bar, in the back as a part of the 9C1 package.

Yes, and mine has all of the ride quality of a 1976 Silverado 4x4 ...

That good, eh? My '94 is low enough that I can't get a 2 x 4 on edge under it at the front. Imagine how little compression those springs allow. It doesn't bottom, either. My wife doesn't even like to ride in it for any distance, even though it is dead quiet inside while cruising. I think the most spongy part of the suspension is the foam in the seats. It squats about a half inch on launches, and dives about an inch in hard cornering, just before the tires let go. I had a real PITA trying to recover the correct pinion angle after adjustment, but it can be done.

Too big of a rear bar, will cause oversteer. Especially in concert with a small or weak from bar.

So let's say you had one of the stock hollow front bars and installed one of the really big, really stiff aftermarket rear bars for a ImpSS, then yes you would get some pronounced oversteer.

PST has some nice options for non-stock stabilizer bars and BMR has decent rear control arms. The stock rear uppers have enough range to get you where you need to go. Actually, you can box the stock rear LCAs (providing holes for the stabilizer mounts) and pay attention to the bushing locations and make them work in a dropped position without kicking the axle too far rearward or pointing the pinion downward too much. The BMR LCAs will also get it done, but with possible adjustments.

Like silicon indicated, there is setup time, and careful measurement and adjustment are necessary to make it all work together.

Depending upon the amount of alignment shim in the front UCAs, you may or may not be able to lower the front without offset spindles. Just as GreyGoose mentioned earlier, offset spindles are a more sure way to lower the front while maintaining geometry. The important (and frequently overlooked) factor is the camber under compression. Even with drop spindles, the factory swingarms may not be optimal for getting the appropriate camber decrease on the outer wheel in cornering. Again, there is setup time and adjustment, and possible alteration.

These cars will still dive in heavy track cornering with the necessarily softer compound tires to hold it, but will corner VERY flat in almost anything you can get into in street driving. Face the fact that you're not driving an F- or Y-Body car, and you'll appreciate how tight they can actually be made. You'll also learn to appreciate a bit of oversteer once you get used to it. Those who have learned to drive wrong-wheel-drive vehicles might feel more at home with all that push that they grew up with, but that really isn't considered "good handling" in most circles. If you're really going to push it hard, you should consider installing the heavier (5/8") front ball joints and control arms before going crazy on the stock parts.

so what you are saying is that i better learn how to adjust my alignment and such if i am going to lower the car

what exactly do i need if i want a rear bar?
is it the kind of stuff i could pull from a car that had a factory one and just upgrade the bar itself, or do i need to upgrade the individual components as well?

You need to at least contact a reputable shop to suggest a course of action, or educate yourself in suspension geometry. I'd suggest starting at an automotive frame shop, and not a general repair garage or dealership. That's not to say that some of the techs in general garages and dealerships don't understand the situation, but they'll likely lack the equipment or not be allowed the time to set it up properly, or the shop will not accept the liability for alterations. Most of those kinds of places merely open a file with stock specifications for the vehicle on the rack, attach the optics, and shim or cam the links to the factory specs. Most of those kinds of places have little clue about what each facet actually does for handling and driver feedback, let alone how each facet affect the others in a three-dimensional world. A good frame shop will actually understand these concepts. The car actually has to be pulled DOWN to simulate cornering loads in order to check the swingarm geometry, bump steer, caster increase under compression, and toe on turns. Most places will tell you that toe on turns is impossible to adjust. They're not trying hard enough, or don't really care to customize the steering arms on the knuckles to get the correct radius.

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BTW - CD, The weather is finally better. Did you paint your house yet? ;)

(What a mess of red tape. You're a better man than I am. I would have paid my attorney to chase them down for harassment and his legal fees.)

Ridetech.com hooked me up with the 9100 shockwaves....well worth the money with an add on compressor, that way you can adjust rear ride hight for that raked look to make'em drool on the street and level the ride when crusin down the highway ( remember your driving a stylish box on wheels aerodynamics change very radically on posture of the vehical) KBY for the front shocks for adjustability as well. Remember body roll can be minimized by good sway bars,front AND rear( which you will need to add. 9c1 springs are the stock way to go. Do not over look control arms and bushing......if these are worn or old this can effect driveability as well! Then when you do upgrades(and I can not stress this enough!) ensure your alignment EVERYTIME. One small change can effect the car's algnment as a whole.

"NO problem is to big for a welder and a beer"

i have a general suspension question that i might as well add in here

is caster adjustable on these cars?
i think mine is off, because when i take a turn, the outer wheel seems to be
increasing camber, or folding under, so that the outer edge of the tire is getting chewed up.
the camber *looks* to be pretty neutral on the front and is probably tending towards negative when sitting still on flat pavement.

whatever it is, it is bad enough that after only 11,000 miles and 3 tire rotations, i have pretty worn shoulders on my 80,000 mile tires.

i have a general suspension question that i might as well add in here

is caster adjustable on these cars?
i think mine is off, because when i take a turn, the outer wheel seems to be
increasing camber, or folding under, so that the outer edge of the tire is getting chewed up.
the camber *looks* to be pretty neutral on the front and is probably tending towards negative when sitting still on flat pavement.

whatever it is, it is bad enough that after only 11,000 miles and 3 tire rotations, i have pretty worn shoulders on my 80,000 mile tires.

Yes. You adjust camber by adding or subtracting shims from both sides of the upper control arm mounts. You adjust caster by adding on one side and subtracting a like amount on the other side.

would that solve the problem i am describing?
its pretty weird
the normal part of the tread is pretty much un worn, but the shoulders are torn up pretty badly


so to add caster i essentially want to "tilt" the spindles back towards the rear of the car, which means i need to add shims in the front and take off in the rear

knowing that i am unexperienced with suspension tuning, is this hard to do?
i dont want to get stuck

would that solve the problem i am describing?
its pretty weird
the normal part of the tread is pretty much un worn, but the shoulders are torn up pretty badly


so to add caster i essentially want to "tilt" the spindles back towards the rear of the car, which means i need to add shims in the front and take off in the rear

knowing that i am unexperienced with suspension tuning, is this hard to do?
i dont want to get stuck

That could help, but you have to verify that your camber and toe adjustments are in synch as well. Generally, wear on one side is usually related to bad camber or bad toe (toe also tends to 'feather' the edges on the good tread).