Help Passlock Issue?

Help!!! I'm a single mom with very little income and my Alero is showing all the signs of this pass key issue. However the battery has been reset and removed (took it to have it tested and it's fine) so all the codes are gone. I can't afford $800 to throw away. Is there any way to determine if this is the issue before I take it to the "Stealership"?

Welcome to AF and the forum.

I have moved one of your posts to a new thread.

It would help to post the year model Alero and current mileage. What are your symptoms making you believe it is a Passlock problem?

Hello,

Thanks for replying...

2002 Alero - drove it yesterday at lunch and went back out after work and it wouldn't start. Had the battery tested and it was fine. Went home and found this forum and had the same symptom. Car has all lights and beeps, but when i turn the key it won't do anything except the service engine light comes on and the security light flashes. I actually did the 10 minute leave the key in and on and let the security light flash for 10 minutes. Turned it off and then it started. However the dealership is telling me that i still need to bring it in becasue that function is only to let it start long enough to get it to the dealership so that they can run the diagnostic test for $90.00 and it could be anywhere from $100.00-$1000.00 to fix it.

Sorry current mileage is approximately 64,000...

THANKS!!!

Hello,

I just wanted to share what has taken place since my last post...

I was about to have my Alero towed to the dealership when I Called them and told a tech that I hadn't done the "10 Minute" thing yet and should i try that or just call the tow truck. He knew immediately what i was referring to and he said "Yes you should definitely try that first". I then asked him if i really needed to do it 3 times or just 1 and he told me just 1. He then told me to unlock the doors with the keyless remote, get in, close and lock the door with the keyless remote then open the door, put the key in the ignition and turn it to the "ON" position and leave it there for 10 minutes". So that's what i did; the security light kept flashing and the service engine light was still on. At exactly 10 minutes the security light quit flashing. The tech had also told me at that point to turn it off and remove the key then put it right back in and try to start it. Glory be to God it started!!!!! :grinyes: So i called the dealership back and told them that it started and they sounded shocked. Of course they told me that this is a security feature that is meant only to start the car and enable me to take it to the dealership to have it fixed. It's not going to keep starting with this technique as it is only temporary. But it allowed me to get it out of the parking garage at my job and got me home.

THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH AUTOMOTIVE FORUM, I COULDN'T HAVE DONE IT WITHOUT THE INFORMATION I GATHERED HERE LAST NIGHT!!! :rofl:
WE KNOW THE DEALERSHIP WOULD NOT HAVE TOLD ME ABOUT IT....

Awaiting responses...:cwm27:

Hello bnaylor,

I'm very new to the AF and haven't been successful in locating the "new thread" that you mentioned below. Would you please let me know how to get to it as I have been anxiously awaiting your response to my posts from yesterday. THANKS!!!! :biggrin:


Welcome to AF and the forum.

I have moved one of your posts to a new thread.

It would help to post the year model Alero and current mileage. What are your symptoms making you believe it is a Passlock problem?

Hi, sorry to hear about your recent problem. Does your car atleast turn over when you try to start it? Or does it just go dead as soon as you turn the key? I've got a 2002 Alero and when it sits for more than about 4 hours I have to use starting fluid to get started. I haven't figured out anything yet, but if I do I'll let you know if it helps..

Thanks, John.

Hi John,

I've posted the link below from AF that i found the other day. I was fortunate to hit the article within one of my 1st searches. It saved me minimum $115.00 and I am totally proud of myself for fixing my car... Anyway i don't know that you and i are having the same issue but there's some good information in this article and on this site!!! Let me know what you find out. :grinyes: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/t454520.html



[quote=jhenry72]Hi, sorry to hear about your recent problem. Does your car atleast turn over when you try to start it? Or does it just go dead as soon as you turn the key? I've got a 2002 Alero and when it sits for more than about 4 hours I have to use starting fluid to get started. I haven't figured out anything yet, but if I do I'll let you know if it helps..

Thanks, John.[/q

Hello bnaylor,

I'm very new to the AF and haven't been successful in locating the "new thread" that you mentioned below. Would you please let me know how to get to it as I have been anxiously awaiting your response to my posts from yesterday. THANKS!!!! :biggrin:

Hello. This thread you are posting in is the new thread and as you can see members will eventually respond.

Common Passlock problems on Aleros are the ignition key cylinder, wiring/serial data communications and/or the body control module (BCM). There may be no cheap or easy long term solution. Even the bypass procedure may not help. If you can get by with the key relearn procedure for now that is the best way to go until you can save up some money. Proper Passlock diagnostic consists of getting the car scanned at the GM dealer with a Tech II to see if there are any Passlock or anti-theft related DTC codes stored.

Thanks for all the help, but I think that I have finally fixed my problem!! I found a blown fuse.. It was fuse number 37. A/C BFC. Do not really know what is for but, car starts fine now.... :)! Maybe that's something you might want to check. Hope it helps you out.

Thanks Again for all the help!!!

Thanks for all your info!!! I took it to the dealership this afternoon and they checked the keys and the car and said that it was fine. They didn't do the scan today so I'm taking a chance I know. I'm hoping that it will not have any more issues until I do have a little money saved for it.

I'm sure I'll be back again as I am thrilled that this all worked out as it did thanks to all the folks contributing to AF!!!! :rofl:

Hello. This thread you are posting in is the new thread and as you can see members will eventually respond.

Common Passlock problems on Aleros are the ignition key cylinder, wiring/serial data communications and/or the body control module (BCM). There may be no cheap or easy long term solution. Even the bypass procedure may not help. If you can get by with the key relearn procedure for now that is the best way to go until you can save up some money. Proper Passlock diagnostic consists of getting the car scanned at the GM dealer with a Tech II to see if there are any Passlock or anti-theft related DTC codes stored.

I have been having similar problems with my '99 Alero. I was able to defeat the BCM tripping the tamper mode "a.k.a. passlock issue", albiet temporarily, by doing the following:

I would experience the problem if the keyless entry system failed to unlock the doors and I manually unlocked them instead. The first time I tried to start it, after a few seconds the fuel injectors would cut off, killing the engine. After the third attempt of starting the car it would not turn over at all.

After three attempts of trying to start the car when experiencing passlock issues the BCM will tell the PCM to temporarily disable the fuel injectors for about 10 minutes or so (hence the relearn with the key in RUN position for 10 minutes).

I was able to defeat the above problems by turning the key to the RUN position, then putting the car in neutral, moving it a foot or two, then putting it back in park, followed by turning the key off pulling it out, putting it back in, and turning it on.

I figured all this out waiting for a tow truck. Then I drove the car into a dealer who provided me with the following information:

Intermittently failing passlock sensor & BCM. Checked for Codes.
Has passlock codes: P1610 & P1616 in ECM.
BCM has Data Loss code B2958 in memory.
Checked for bulletins, O.K.
Checked all BCM & Passlock DATA, All O.K. at this time.
Needs Ignition Lock Cylinder & BCM.

BCM $397 + tax
Lock Cylinder $275 + tax.

I declined those repairs as I didn't have $900 to throw at the car at that time, and figured I could get the parts cheaper elsewhere and attempt to do the work myself.

While driving it later that week, however, I went to start it after a short drive to the Post Office. As soon as I turned the key to the ACC position, the whole electrical system died. No more security lights, no more radio, no more power windows.

I have since attempted to replace the Ignition Switch ($129) which temporarily provided power for the wipers to work, but didn't enable the car to start. Since that initial connection, nothing will power up again. I also replaced the BCM (eBay salvage with 1 year warranty $44). I also replaced the Ignition Cylinder ($194 NAPA). And it still won't get any power anywhere.

Hazards won't work, headlights won't turn on, nothing.
The battery has 12.02 Volts.
I've checked all the fuses and nothing is blown.
I am getting juice to the wires which run from the battery to the ignition switch, but still no power! :banghead:

Does anyone have any ideas what could be going on here?

I've already purchased the replacement parts and plugged them in, the last thing I want to do is bring it back to the dealer all torn apart, so they can charge me even more than before and get a good laugh at my expen$e.

Thanks,

'99 Alero V6 3.4L with 78k miles.

Ahh, are you anywhere near central Ohio? I could take a peek at it. Are you sure you tested each ignition and accessory wire at the switch? You'll have 2 of each plus 2 red constant feeds and one yellow starter wire. Test these and report back.

I may be mistaken but I believe BCMs are programmed with the vehicle VIN, and there is no way to reset it. Once it determines that the VIN of the PCM does not match, it will not allow the car to start (or do anything else). Only a new BCM will work.

I did check the voltage to the Red and Yellow wire of connector 1 as well as the Red wire of connector 2 which run to the ignition switch. All three were hot.

I tested all of this before attempting to swap the BCM. So I wasn't getting any juice with the key in the ACC position after replacing the Ignition Cylinder and Ignition Switch, prior to replacing the BCM.

I'm in Seattle, BTW.

Could it be related to faulty wiring to the BCM?

I don't see how the BCM would prevent all the other electrical components from getting power...windows, lights, etc.

I thought a dealer could reprogram a BCM to a different vehicle?

Regards reprogramming a BCM: The BCM in the Impala cannot be reprogrammed. I don't think GM would make one reprogrammable for the Alero and not for the Impala, but maybe they did. Better ask a dealer to be sure.
Have you tried checking for continuity through you new ignition switch as the key is turned to the various positions? Maybe power is getting to the switch but the switch itself was bad when you got it.

I tested switch continuity with the switch removed, as it was damn near impossible to do with it installed.

Neither the old switch, or the the new switch matched all of the continuity tests that the Haynes manual specified, not sure why. But the old switch and new switch had the sam continuity results. Seeing as how the dealer said it was the cylinder and not the switch, I imagine the switch should be fine.

I've tested continuity with the old cylinder and old switch, new cylinder and old switch, old cylinder and new switch, new cylinder and new switch, with the same results for all combinations. I am completely dumbfounded here.

well unfortunately it sounds like a trip to a dealer or a good private mechanic with a tech2 tool.

Ahh, are you anywhere near central Ohio? I could take a peek at it. Are you sure you tested each ignition and accessory wire at the switch? You'll have 2 of each plus 2 red constant feeds and one yellow starter wire. Test these and report back.

just wanting to make sure I'm testing right, what is the proper way to test each wire?

I was using a multimeter, touching the red end to the wire/connector and the black connector to another wire in the connector.

just wanting to make sure I'm testing right, what is the proper way to test each wire?

I was using a multimeter, touching the red end to the wire/connector and the black connector to another wire in the connector.
Well, depends on what you are testing. If you are testing for voltage, the black lead goes to chassis ground and the red to what ever circuit you are testing.

turns out I was only getting about 4 Volts to the hot wires running to the switch. I cleaned the battery terminals and that sorted things out. I'm getting power everywhere now.

Now it is a question of is it just the BCM that needs to be replaced or the Lock Cylinder or both.

I'm under the opinion that there is nothing wrong with the Lock Cylinder as it passed the same continuity tests as a new one along with a new switch.

I imagine my last short out episode can be attributed to the dirty terminal connections on the battery.

Any thoughts on whether it is just the BCM or Lock Cylinder or both?

Thanks.

Well I'd hate to say with out seeing it in person. Since now you have good juice you may want to put a charger on it and then take the car through the learn sequence for a new code on the PK2 system.

Is the PK2 system something the dealer has to run on it?

If so, I take it the recommendation would be have the system relearn after having power issues, then re-test the integrity of the BCM and Ignition Cylinder by the dealer looking up trouble codes?

Thanks

Is the PK2 system something the dealer has to run on it?

If so, I take it the recommendation would be have the system relearn after having power issues, then re-test the integrity of the BCM and Ignition Cylinder by the dealer looking up trouble codes?

Thanks
PK2= Passlock 2 antitheft system. What's got me concerned is this BCM has Data Loss code B2958 in memory. Which usually means you have a bad BCM. If the BCM is acting up it'll cause the PK2 system from starting your car. Find the BCM and wiggle the connectors on it to see if that helps. You can also disconnect the BCM and plug it back in to see if that changes anything as well. You said you replaced the BCM so is this code before or after? Either way, you'll need to teach the BCM your car's PK2 code by doing the 10min on/off deal.

When I had attempted to use the replacement BCM, the vehicle was not getting enough power due to the dirty terminals on the battery.

By the time I re-established power, the original BCM was installed. It was exhibiting the same problems with the Passlock system prior to to power loss. I attempted the 10 minute re-learn 3 times with the original BCM and it did not fix the problem.

Are you saying it should be possible to have my replacement BCM learn the cars PK2 codes by attempting the 10 minute run without taking it to a dealer?

If so, I'd like to attempt to save money in towing.

Yes, that's what he means. Look in your owners manual for the exact procedure, if you don't already know it. I would try it with the least worn key you have, as that sometimes helps. Good luck!

Yes, you could try it. I'm not totally sure but it's worth a shot. No, the relearn procedure isn't in the manual.

Yes, you could try it. I'm not totally sure but it's worth a shot. No, the relearn procedure isn't in the manual.

You're right, I was thinking of something else.:shakehead

Did you get it fixed???? I have some information about running a toggle switch in the dash (don't remember all of it) but that information is at work. I'll send it home and re-post just in case it might help...

Did you get it running???:banghead:

I may be mistaken but I believe BCMs are programmed with the vehicle VIN, and there is no way to reset it. Once it determines that the VIN of the PCM does not match, it will not allow the car to start (or do anything else). Only a new BCM will work.

You are correct the BCM has to be programed by the dealershits, even a new(or used) BCM has to be reprogramed for the specific car its being installed in.
Also a bad BCM should trip the SVS light with a p1610 DTC or something close.

Here is the GM Tech info I have on the BCM curtisy of Bob Naylor.

SETUP NEW BODY CONTROL MODULE (BCM)

TOOLS REQUIRED
Scan Tool (Tech 2)

IMPORTANT:

Read this procedure carefully and completely.
The BCM will not function properly if the Setup New BCM procedure is not performed.
Perform the Theft Deterrent Re-learn procedure after successfully finishing the Setup New BCM procedure. If the Theft Deterrent Re-learn procedure is not performed after a BCM replacement, the following conditions may occur:
The vehicle will not be protected against theft by the PASSLOCK system.
The engine will not crank nor start.
Connect a Scan Tool (Tech 2) to the Data Link Connector (DLC) .
Turn the ignition switch on.
Select Diagnostics and input all of the required data when prompted by the Scan Tool (Tech 2).
Select BODY CONTROL MODULE.
Select SPECIAL FUNCTIONS.
Select New VIN and input all required data.
Exit back to the SPECIAL FUNCTIONS menu.
Select BCM REPROGRAMMING.
The scan tool will display DO YOU WANT TO SETUP A BODY CONTROL MODULE? At the prompt, select SETUP BCM hotspot on the scan tool.
The scan tool will display: NOW SETTING UP THE NEW BODY CONTROL MODULE.
When the BCM has been setup successfully, the scan tool will display: BODY CONTROL MODULE SETUP IS COMPLETE.
When the BCM Setup Procedure and VIN have been entered, proceed with the Theft Deterrent Re-learn procedure. NOTE: After the above procedure has been completed, personalization of the BCM defaults to a default setting. Inform the customer that the personalization settings must be set again.

Also If any of you have the sun roof, it can leak and run down the pillars right onto your fuse boxes which causes the BCM to become toast.

I just went through this on my GA GT , leakin sun roof and I thought it was fixed replaced the BCM(w/used one) and then it was toast too.
Though everything worked fine, the SVS light was on constantly. Replaced my drain hoses and now I'm dry and no SVS light.

But this whole passlock issue is none stop with GM vehicles.
As stated on the first page, ignition switch, lock cylinder, and or the BCM/PCM are the places to start looking. It is much more dificult to track down without the right equipment ie. Tech II scanner.

Good Luck!

PK2= Passlock 2 antitheft system. What's got me concerned is this BCM has Data Loss code B2958 in memory. Which usually means you have a bad BCM. If the BCM is acting up it'll cause the PK2 system from starting your car. Find the BCM and wiggle the connectors on it to see if that helps. You can also disconnect the BCM and plug it back in to see if that changes anything as well. You said you replaced the BCM so is this code before or after? Either way, you'll need to teach the BCM your car's PK2 code by doing the 10min on/off deal.

Not all serial data losses are due to a bad BCM.
Could be a wire shorted or loose connections, or even a low battery .
And can also be from the Ignition switch not sending data to the BCM or PCM for the PK2 system to operate properly causing a no start.

Here is another TSB on the BCM.

BCM - Security Lamp ON/No Crank/DTC's Set
Bulletin No.: 04-08-47-003
Date: August 31, 2004
TECHNICAL
Subject:
Security Light On, Engine Will Not Crank, Diagnostic Trouble Codes B2958 and/or B2960 (Repair Poor
Terminal Connections at Body Control Module)
Models:
2000-2005 Chevrolet Impala, Monte Carlo
Condition
Some customers may comment on an engine that will not crank. Others may comment on the security light
being on.
Technicians may find DTCs (diagnostic trouble codes) B2958 and/or B2960.
Cause
These conditions may have several different causes. In each case, however, testing of the BCMs (Body
Control Modules) replaced for these conditions are frequently found to be operating to specifications and are
believed to have been replaced needlessly. A change was made to the BCM hardware in February of 2003. An
updated BCM can be identified by a GMAN169 or higher number found on the BCM part label. This
hardware change was made to prevent the remote possibility that a BCM, built after the GMAN169 number,
could be the cause of these conditions.
Correction
The following are the likely causes of these conditions:
1. Damaged or loose/unseated terminals in these BCM connectors may cause a security light or no start
condition:
^ BCM connector C1 (24-way, pink in color), terminal B9 (white wire, circuit 1459)
^ BCM connector C1 (24-way, pink in color), terminal B12 (black wire, circuit 1835)
^ BCM connector C2 (24-way, grey in color), terminal A3 (yellow wire, circuit 1836)
Important: Use only approved tools for removal and testing of terminals. Do not use unapproved tools to
probe a terminal as this could cause damage. Use Probe Tool J 35616-6, from the J 35616-B terminal test
kit, to test the terminals in the BCM connector.
2. Check all the terminals in both BCM connectors, focusing on the three terminals listed above, for damage
and proper seating of the terminal in the connector. If no damage is noted, follow the normal SI diagnostic
procedures including clearing codes and attempting to duplicate the concern.
3. Always check for and clear all DTCs after recharging or disconnecting the battery. Attempt to restart the
vehicle only after all DTCs have been cleared. This will help prevent an unnecessary BCM replacement
due to false DTCs being set while servicing the battery.
4. A BCM should not be replaced when DTCs U1016 and/or U1064 have been set, even though the BCM is
turning on the security light. Diagnose and repair or replace components as directed by the diagnostic
procedures for these diagnostic trouble codes.
5. A current or history diagnostic trouble code B2958 in the BCM and a loss of battery voltage due to a
battery going dead or a battery disconnect may cause a no start condition upon recharging or reconnecting
the battery. Clearing the diagnostic trouble code will allow the vehicle to start.
6. The security light may turn on when the IPC (Instrument Panel Cluster) or PCM (Powertrain Control
Module) does not receive a state of health message from the BCM within a specified window of time.
DTCs U1016 or U1064 may set. Upon receiving the state of health message again, the security light will
go out and diagnostic trouble codes will go to history. If this happens frequently, the vehicle may exhibit
an intermittent or random flash of the security light.

xero, that's some very good information. You know, we should some how make a sticky out of what I know and what you know for all GM owners to read since EVERY gm owner that's got a car with a pk2 system will face this issue.